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Jags Fans Attacked Outside Gillette; Moss Situation

Jags Fans Assaulted Outside Gillette
Will Moss Incident Be A Distraction?

This was a very busy week for me, and I was unable to take time to address several stories that came to light. Of course, we have a "giant" day tomorrow, so will keep even these comments brief.

There was an incident after the Patriots-Jaguars game in which a pair of Jaguars fans, accompanied by a pair of cousins, who were Patriots fans, were allegedly assaulted in a Gillette Stadium parking lot. The story in the Boston Herald recounts few details, but it resulted in at least a black eye and some cuts.

The severity of the attack is not the issue. The issue is that visiting fans were attacked. But let's not get confused with the incident where 60,000 Colts fans booed 14-year-old Anna Grant during a Punt, Pass and Kick awards presentation in Indianapolis last week.

I called, and rational people everywhere (including Colts fans who deluged the Indianapolis Star with comments) agreed, that these fans were utterly classless. There's really no disputing that. But classless supporters are trying to use this attack on Jaguars fans to say that Patriots fans are the real classless ones.

Don't be ridiculous. There's a huge difference between 60,000 people engaging in infantile behavior and one-hundreth of 1 percent of that many engaging in criminal activity. Yes, the fans who attacked the Jaguars (and other Patriots) fans are criminals, and they should be punished. Jail sounds good to me. Unfortunately, they will probably never be identified now, and they'll get away with nothing.

The sad fact is that incidents like the one in which those fans were attacked are isolated but common, and they happen everywhere. Heck, researching this, I typed "Jaguars fans attacked" into Google, and two of the first four links are about Jaguars fans being attacked in Pittsburgh (two weeks ago, a fan was hospitalized) and San Diego (in 2004). That one left a Jags fan unconscious.

Star-divide

These are just incidents involving Jaguars fans! Can you imagine how often this occurs at all 32 NFL stadiums? How about major league baseball fields, or basketball and hockey arenas, or following soccer matches?

Of course, no one at SB Nation's Jacksonville Jaguars blog could be bothered to use Google, choosing instead to rage against Patriots fans in ignorance. No mention of the Pittsburgh incident, recently or in the past. I guess it's not a big deal if a division rival's fans beat the hell out of yours.

You'll also notice in the Big Cat Country posting that our good friend in Indianapolis tipped them off to the Foxboro incident. That's fine. The Jags' blogger certainly has the right to know about the incident, though it's unfortunate he's uninformed how prevalent incidents like these are (so prevalent that they rarely make newsprint), especially when his fellow fans are involved. What's obvious is that you-know-who continues the baseless vendetta against Patriots fans. They're still trying to convince rationally-minded people how classy they are. You know this because they tell you -- right, LaDanian?

Again, let me reiterate, because I know some people missed it:

To say that the conduct of these few fans is "unacceptable" is a vast understatement. Their conduct is criminal. Not only is there no place for it in sports, there's no place for it in society. That's why we have laws and police. (Where were the police, incidentally, and were they ever called?)

I think those Patriots fans (if they were Patriots fans) should be punished appropriately. If they can be identified, they should be arrested and charged with assault and battery and possibly compensate their victims monetarily. By the same token, let's not pretend that a very small percentage of losers -- because they're in every community in the country -- are representative of anything but their low-life selves. That's different from an entire community acting like buffoons.

What About Moss?

This currently amounts to nothing more than "he said, she said." Allegations from every angle. No real evidence of anything -- yet. Randy Moss's past clearly impacts public perception of the incident, but public sentiment is rarely admissible in a court of law. Meanwhile, Moss's attorneys have couched the aftermath of what they term a very minor incident as a major attempt to extort money from Moss.

There's really nothing more to discuss until more concrete facts come to light. Anything else is mere speculation.

But there is some speculation to deal with, and that's whether this incident and its aftermath distracted the Patriots or Moss last week against Jacksonville and whether it will distract Moss or the team this weekend.

In both cases, I think the answer is no. The Herald's Mike Felger has said that he believes that this case directly impacted the Patriots offense and Moss's performance against Jacksonville, and he's espoused that view interminably on ESPN 890 AM. But nothing that happened last week supports that.

Yes, Moss caught one pass. Tom Brady threw to him just once, so he couldn't have caught more than that. Otherwise, Moss was responsible for several very important downfield blocks and generally played well as much as cameras focused on him. There were no allegations from Ron Jaworski or anyone else that Moss appeared to be "dogging it" -- well, except from Felger.

Moss supposedly told his side of the story to Bill Belichick last Friday, the day before the game. Not nearly enough time for Belichick and his staff to completely rework the offense the Patriots practiced all week. Furthermore, Brady went 26 of 28 and was just a pair of drops (one aided by an over-agressive defender). Most of the receivers were pretty wide open, which just kind of indicates that the Jaguars were probably covering Moss. Laurence Maroney also ran very well, which just kind of suggests the Jaguars were focusing on passing defense.

All of this reinforces what I said for weeks before the game that the Patriots were getting teams to focus their defenses on Moss and that New England would adjust its offense appropriately. I don't think this incident (by the way, no police called, no charges filed) had anything to do with it.

Will it have anything to do with this game? I doubt it. I don't see any reason why it would. Until someone comes up with some kind of logical explanation of how it would, I'll stick to that.

Defining Moments

I haven't presented a defining moment in a few weeks. Clearly, there's been so much else for Patriots fans to discuss, there just hasn't been the time.

But fear not, plenty of other SB Nation bloggers and writers from sites elsewhere have been plastering Samsung's site. A chunk of the talk revolves around the Packers-Giants game, and most of the Patriots-Chargers posts favor New England. That is, except for the post that is by far the most popular, and that's the one that predicts a Chargers' upset.

You can check out all the posts at Samsung's Defining Moments site.

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Oy Vey...
The reason they didn't throw to him is because he wasn't open. Now that all the stupid and silly (in regards to winning at least) records are done, Brady can go back to what he's done for every season he's been in the league and played, throw to the open man, not just to Randy Moss for some ink on a page...

Hey, makes me happy if Moss only gets one pass a game as long as the Pats win.

by DanieXJ on Jan 19, 2008 5:14 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I'm just lazy
I'll be the first to admit that I wrote an emotionally charged post.  And yes, things like this are common, but that shouldn't make it a crime to report on it.

Call it contradictory, I'll make no claims to anything other than being a fan that was very upset to hear that fans were attacked.  I'll also admit that I was unaware of the attack outside of the Steelers game.

I think the critical distinction here is that not only were two Jaguars fans attacked, but their family that was wearing Patriots Jerseys as well.  It's surprising to see that you'd eat your own children like that.

Also, there is a different in the type of attack between the two, having just read the report.  One Steeler fan sucker punching a Jag fan in the stadium is a completely different type of event than four people being assaulted, including the fact that rather than helping the victims, other people simply jumped in on the attack.  

Compare this:

On the way back to their seats, Darren says some half-drunk Steelers fan suddenly wheeled off and kicked him. Then the guy, according to Darren, karate-chopped him on the neck.

Darren says the "sucker punch" hit him in just the wrong place and he couldn't breathe for awhile.

"There was no security anywhere," Darren says.
Finally, cops came and kicked the Steelers fan out of the stadium.

to This:

"I was wearing my Tedy Bruschi [stats] jersey and my friend Jeff had a Tom Brady [stats] shirt on," Brian Wormstead said. "But my cousins, who flew up for the game from Jacksonville, were wearing Jaguars gear.

"Suddenly, two guys behind us start mouthing off, just being obnoxious. So I turned around and said, `C'mon, we just won the game. These are my cousins from Florida. Let's just have a nice night, OK?' "

Then he turned back.

Tanya Watson, 35, Brian's cousin, decribes what happened next.

"They hit him from behind," she said. "And when Jeff stepped in, they knocked him to the ground. My husband Chris was walking ahead of us; when he saw what was happening he came running.

"So Chris gets one of these guys in a headlock, trying to pull him away, and while they're on the ground, someone else kicks him in the head. That's how he got the black eye and swollen cheek. My husband never got hit by the ones who started it; he got hit by the ones passing by."

Wormstead, 40, can't describe his attackers.

"It was pretty dark out where they're putting up all those new buildings," he said. "So I didn't get a good look. Besides, at 5-foot-8, everybody looks big to me. I just know I've got a punctured eardrum and lumps all over me; Chris has cuts all over his face; and Jeff got pretty messed up, too. People passing by were kicking and punching for no reason."

Multiple attackers and the fact that other people, mere bystanders, felt the need to include themselves in the attack make this a reasonable thing to be upset about.

Especially considering the fact that the fans beat up two people in Patriots gear, and that they won the game.

So, say what you will, if you can't tell the difference between an isolated event in Pittsburgh and a full out jumping in New England, then I think the violence of the game as desensitized us all a bit too much.

Oh, and there's also no "tipping off" between Stampede Blue and myself.  My RSS reader is pretty democratic, I saw his first.  BBS never went out of his way to spread anything, there are a dozen ways I was going to find out, including the correspondence I've had with the victims themselves.

I refuse to accept the premise that one type of attack is equal to another.  The sheer number of attackers in this case says a lot, considering that whatever sample of New England Fans coming out of that section, going into that parking lot, and were around those fans at that exact moment and involved themselves is pretty large.  One might say that it's statistically significant.

Anyhow, I hate to bore you here with a long post, especially considering that you've got a game to focus on, and nothing I'd say will ever change your minds.  Clearly the New England Patriot fanbase is not the worst in the world.  I used hyperbole.  If I offended you or somehow "disrespected you", I apologize.  Sometimes we paint with broad brushes.  Have you ever claimed that the Patriots were the best team ever?  It's the same fallacy.  I can't prove that Patriots Fans are the worst in the world, you can't prove the Patriots are the best team ever, but we're both more than happy to throw around statements like that.

Besides, did you really expect me NOT to get pissed off when I heard about this.  Had the Jags beaten you guys I could totally make sense of this.  Frustration and what not.  But when you're undefeated and you soundly defeat a team, you don't go through and beat the other fans up, especially when two of them are YOUR fans.

Thanks,

-Chris

Check out SB Nation's Jacksonville Jaguar Blog at Big Cat Country

by River City Rage on Jan 19, 2008 5:14 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I think you're missing several larger points
Chris,

I appreciate you stopping by and explaining your point of view. If I was mistaken that the Colts blog tipped you off, then I apologize for that. Outright thanking them for letting you know instead of saying you saw it posted there or stumbled across it came across differently.

As for the attack, I think there are several points you're missing.

I don't think the Jaguars fans were attacked because they were wearing Jaguars jerseys. I think that being visiting fans, they were being antagonized by some Patriots fans, probably drunk, and that instead of just walking away, one of them engaged. I find it unlikely that a simple, "C'mon, we won the game. Leave them alone" sparked immediate violence. That usually won't set off even a drunk person, but those are the kinds of details you get when you hear only one side.

Also, according to the Herald story, the Patriots fan was the first one struck. It wasn't even really an assault on Jaguars fans because they were Jaguars fans. In fact, according the the Herald story, the Jaguars fan was the first to make contact with the Patriots fan (if it was a Patriots fan, because "It was pretty dark out where they're putting up all those new buildings, so I didn't get a good look [at the attackers]."

I've been to Gillette several times this year. I found it to be pretty well-lit in all pedestrian traffic areas.

"Sheer number of attackers"? What number was that? There's nothing in the Herald story that says exactly where this took place or how many people were there. (But see quote from San Diego story below.)

The bottom line is that this wasn't a case of fans of one team being attacked by fans of another team simply because they're fans of different teams (as was clearly the case of the Colts fans booing the girl in the Patriots jersey). It's a case of morons, probably drunk, fighting as they're wont to do anywhere and everywhere.

Regardless, the implication of everything you wrote ("Who beats up fans in general, but especially after a victory?") certainly implies that you think incidents such as these are extremely rare and that it must be a defect in Patriots fans.

The Chargers beat Jacksonville 34-21 when "three Chargers fans beat a Jaguars fan unconscious in front of dozens of people."

Drunks mouthing off to other drunks usually ends up in fisticuffs, at sports stadiums, bars, parking lots, colleges. And it usually doesn't matter who's wearing what jersey or which team wins. Or if sports have anything to do with it.

You can continue to refuse to accept that one type of attack is equal to another, but the facts speak for themselves.

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by tommasse on Jan 19, 2008 6:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Blame the Victim?
The Colts blog tipped me off in the sense that I read about the incident on the site.

I admitted, right off the bat, that I was overly harsh in implying that Patriots fans suffer some sort of deficit, that they have some sort of behavioral issue.  No, they're normal fans I suppose.

What I chafed at is the implication that I'm somehow  irrational for being upset at this.  Yeah, I think that in 2008 football fans should be able to walk to a parking lot, especially at one of the newest, most expensive, and nicest stadiums without getting assaulted.

I can understand things getting nasty in the stands, it's difficult to move around when they shoehorn fans into those seats and security takes time to get there (Both San Diego and Pittsburgh events happened inside the stadium).  You've got close quarters.  I myself have gotten into heady situations, specifically at Arrowhead where I've felt a little uncomfortable.  

But I expect better, and I don't think that it should be somehow assumed that the people who were beaten down are at fault.  You imply that they're either lying or exaggerating, which is weird considering that they were the ones that ended up getting stomped.  I know that booze can bring out the worst in people, but I don't know that a New England Couple that brings in their cousins from Jacksonville seem like the type that would also be stirring stuff up, considering what position that could put their family in.

The "difference' as I see it is the active participation by bystanders in the assault.  The Herald describes that people passing by tossed in a few licks.  Not stopped to help, but got in a cheap shot.

It just reeks of bad things.  And implying that the people who got hurt were lying about the location, lighting, etc, just makes it worse.  

I'm glad you denounced it, I just wish you had done it in a way that didn't imply that I'm an idiot, blame the victims for what happened, and then expect me to accept that a team, organization, and fan base that yearns for respect is allowed to  just move on after something like this.  Instead of "they probably provoked it" or "they had it coming", it should be more "how dare they tarnish our team" and "lifetime bans from the Stadium".

We'll never agree on this.  And I've no doubt that you'll pay extra close attention to the police beat in Jacksonville after Jags games, just waiting to throw something in my face.  But It's not too much to expect better out of the world class organization that Bob Kraft and others have put together that people from other fanbases can come to Foxboro and not be in fear.  You're not Oakland, you're not Philly, you're the New England Frigging Patriots, you demand the respect of the league, the media, and the world.  Even Putin is a fan.  So yeah, the expectations are higher of your parking lot and your fans because of it.

You want respect, and with that comes the responsibility of not stomping other teams fans when they come to your house.

I'm sure you want to drop this as much as I do, since we'll never agree.

-Chris

Check out SB Nation's Jacksonville Jaguar Blog at Big Cat Country

by River City Rage on Jan 19, 2008 6:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree that you should be upset
We all should be upset. Any assault is reprehensible (hence laws against it), and assaulting someone because they root for a particular team is abhorrent.

But we should refrain from pretending this type of violence was perpetrated by "Patriots fans", because we all know it's a larger issue, occasionally involving fans of every team. What chafed me was that you tied it to the Colts fans booing the girl and seemingly implying that Patriots fans have no room to complain because of the Gillette assault.

I never said or implied the Jaguars fans had it coming, but it takes two to tango in most cases. In this case, it seemed like there was an opportunity for either party to walk away, and neither took it. And, again, it appears a Patriots fan was the first to be attacked, so this was not an outright assault on Jaguars fans. (Besides, this was a column in the Herald, not a news story. The people involved claim bystanders were involved, but we don't know that to be fact -- there is no police report that I've heard, and there were no additional witnesses -- and we shouldn't assume it as such, much as in any similar case.)

Nor did I say they lied about the location. I said the location wasn't specified (a "darkened lot at Gillette Stadium") but that all trafficked locations in the immediate area of the stadium are well lit.

Fans shouldn't be chastised simply because they're fans of different teams. They're all just people who root for a team to which have some tenuous tie (usually geographic), teams populated by players who rarely have the same ties.

I didn't rail against the Colts fans in the RCA Dome because they're Colts fans -- that's merely coincidental. If that game had taken place in any other stadium and a 14-year-old girl had been booed by most of those in attendance I would have denounced it, perhaps not as strenuously. That Anna Grant was wearing a Patriots jersey made the incident more poignant in New England, but no less wrong if it had happened anywhere else and the fans present had booed a 14-year-old fan of any other team.

Here's the point: The assault could have happened anywhere, and similar incidents do. The kid getting booed would not have happened anywhere, and only one kid in the whole line got booed. Unlike the assault, it was a unique event. Tying the assault and the booing together in any way is spurious.

By the way, I was on Sirius's Hardcore Sports Radio's "Sports Rage" Thursday night and one of the hosts suggested that the Punt, Pass and Kick presentation be performed during the Pro Bowl, which I think is a fantastic idea. These kids represent teams from around the league, just as the players there do, and I'm sure these kids and their families wouldn't refuse a trip to Hawaii (and I bet the league could afford it).

Have something to say? Create a free account and step up to the Pulpit! (Please: No vulgarity. Thanks.)

by tommasse on Jan 19, 2008 10:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I Google searched 'Patriots fan attacked' and
"Cowboys fan attacked" and got multiple stories of both. Unfortunately this happens quite often at nearly all stadiums. There are going to be a small number of troublemakers eveywhere you go. The reaction of a great majority of the Colts fans is the issue here in reacting to a girl, not an adult. No one is defending the actions of the attackers at Gillette Stadium. I don't understand why people are defending the actions of these Colts fans.

by scsatr on Jan 19, 2008 5:37 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Little Motivation
For the overconfident Charger fan in your life. Or to get the Pats motivated. Your choice.
http://www.nflshop.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2992950&cp=2999405&parentPage=category

by PatriotPat on Jan 19, 2008 5:43 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Not a big deal.
Click the Conference Champ Gear link and it will show hats and shirts for all 4 teams left playing.   That's just SOP to offer for all the teams in the games.

by Ironman63 on Jan 19, 2008 7:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

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