Is a British NFL franchise a good idea?
by MaPatsFan on Oct 23, 2009 4:12 PM EDT
in Opinion/Analysis
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PrintYeah, it's got all the hype, pomp, and circumstance. But, for once I agree with Boston Globe columnist Dan Shaughnessy: this is nuts. Belichick hates this, the players hate this, and it's up in the air as to whether or not those outside the US even give this a second look. True, we have some diehard non-US fans who follow the team, but they are lonely soldiers fighting the battle for truth, justice, and the NFL way. Surrounded by rabid soccer (sorry, football) fans, one must take their life in their hands to discuss touchdowns, a good running game, and Tom Brady.
Roger Goodell thinks they'll be more Britian-based games to come:
LONDON (AP)—NFL commissioner Roger Goodell expects the league to start playing multiple regular-season games in Britain in the next few years—an expansion that could lead to putting a franchise in London.
Goodell said Friday that "every indicator" shows the British market can support more games and that having a franchise here is of "tremendous interest" to the league. But he stopped short of giving a timeline for expanding the NFL’s overseas presence.
"The interest and the enthusiasm for our game continues to grow, and we want to feed that," Goodell said. "We want to respond to that by hopefully bringing more to the UK."
Could lead to putting a franchise in London? Is he nuts? The logistics alone seem ridiculous. Forget, for a minute, the 6 hour plane flight; the Patriots going West deal with that as to West teams coming East. There's typically a 5 hour time difference. For those who travel, myself included, it can take a toll on you. Sure, these are young guys in peak form, but it still does a number on the human body. That and defence instead of defense or flavour instead of flavor just doesn't seem right (sorry Comedic.Sans).
I don't mean to, in anyway, insult our non-US based fans. Far from it. I think it's awesome that folks outside the US are such rabid fans, especially when it's so hard to BE a fan. Games aren't broadcast, you have to find an internet feed...it makes it all the harder. But, I just can't see it happening in the very near future. I'd say it'd be about as successful as FIFA trying to setup a "football" franchise in the US. Yeah, there's some interest in what we yanks call soccer, but not nearly the same level as american football, where I learned about spirit fingers.
Now, do I fault the NFL for doing this? I think it was the D.A. show on 98.5 where they were hammering the league for being greedy, for going after markets like this. Well, that's the very definition of capitalism. The NFL is as successful as it is because it doesn't sit around, throwing $100 bills on the floor like rose petals. The NFL, like most other successful businesses, is always looking for new markets, new pockets to pull money out of, if you will. That's how businesses grow and stay successful. Because sooner or later, that old cash cow won't be producing as much milk as you thought it would.
I'm indifferent as to whether or not it's a good idea. I think European NFL fans will be cheering their bloody heads off, but it remains to be seen if it will be successful. That being said, it simply makes good business sense to give it a go. That soccer stuff is for the birds. Maybe we can show the rest of the world what a real sport is.
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Geez MaPats hate soccer much?
I got your excellent point but theres no need for the soccer bashing. As a fan of both footballs, they both have their merits. A sport with no commercial interruptions every minute is A-OK in my book.
This whole London NFL team is non-sense though. I get the whole “expanding the brand” thing but it shouldn’t be at the expense of the players or the fans.
Capitalism
Such a bipolar organization. Yes, the NFL espouses capitalism in its business practices, but it practices socialism in its rules. The worst teams get the spoils: The first draft picks, the first shots at the players who go through waivers, the easier schedules, etc…
Keep the faith!
amen to those comments.
Don't question my fandominium.
"the notorious D.I.B."- samdaman
by dolphinsinbuffalo on Oct 23, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I voted "No"
Here are the downsides as I see them:
1) There are European fans, but they’re not fans of European teams. Take our Danish friends hythlodaeus and KDBL. Would they quit being fans of the Pats, to follow a London team? How about one in Denmark? Some of you were born Pats fans and some of you are Pats fans because of geography. The rest of us like our team despite all of that.
2) Eleven hour jaunts from the west coast. It becomes impossible to schedule a bye week for every team that has to jump the pond, forget about the London team that has to jump the other way. At some point, some teams are going to get some seriously short weeks to prepare AND overcome jet lag. Will that affect someone’s season?
3) There is some youth American football in Europe, but probably not enough talent to field an NFL level team. So just like NFL Europe, you’re drafting Yanks to ship them across the pond. Some guys I’m sure would welcome the opportunity. Some guys would pull an Eli Manning, and refuse to go. Would it be enough to affect the quality of the team?
4) What about coaching staff? It’s one thing to ship some twenty-somethings to Europe, but what about some of the older and better coaches? McDaniels is good and young. That conbination is rare. To get a good, experienced coach you are looking for someone who might not want to uproot to Europe. Family and proximity is a bigger deal as you get older and your parents are aging. Would that affect the product?
5) Ok, you can play in Wembley. Practice where? Some other soccer field? Would the lack of infrastructure (probably short term) affect the team’s competitiveness?
Trying to build a team, means trying to build a fanbase to support the team. The current European fans HAVE teams that you are trying to pull them away from (sort of a rob from Peter to pay Paul). If the new team isn’t immediately competitive, and it would need to be because you have no history to draw upon, I don’t see it drawing a large fan base.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Oct 23, 2009 4:43 PM EDT reply actions
I agree with you all the way.
The NFL is a U.S. sport and if people want to like it they can like it here or from abroad. I like it staying here.
Don't question my fandominium.
"the notorious D.I.B."- samdaman
by dolphinsinbuffalo on Oct 23, 2009 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions
hmm
I think a preseason game would be more appropriate…just not fair to take home games away, even if the team is bad.
I think a ‘Europe’ division would be interesting…wouldn’t be shocked to see it happen eventually…though the travel times are certainly troublesome.
The NFL is a very enjoyable experience, and many Britons realize that.
I think Mexico and Canada would be more logical expansions first.
"These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
The CFL diehards just cringed when you said that.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Oct 23, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
that's reason they probably won't
gotta either defeat or absorb the CFL
"These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I agree about a preseason alternative
All too often a team’s chances at making the playoffs are decided on one game (though not likely to be the case with this year’s international travelers), so burdening two teams with a game overseas is an undeserved punishment.
However, I guess the claim could be made that if it’s preseason, it’s far from a typical game and thus wouldn’t generate much audience interest.
We should just let the Brits stick their metric football.
May the wind be always at your back, and may your placekicker have icewater in his veins.
Once preseason was ok
but there it will be difficult to go back to preseason games after having the real thing.
I just put a post on Buffalo Rumblings talking about this point.
A London based NFL franchise seems good to me, i would still support the Bills but would go to watch the London team.
The biggest problem i see is the much higher tax rates we have in the UK, around about 55% personal tax rates.
The past is fixed, the future is unknown, try dealing with the present!
Some good pts., some way off
Agreed, that an NFL franchise is silly in Europe, because I don’t agree with Goodell that the interest is there… However your comparison to soccer popularity in the US is way, way off. Soccer here is much more popular than American football in Europe. You only have to look at the crowds from every summer that see European clubs over here for mere preseason games. Like the 90,000 that saw Barcelona this summer for a preseason friendly. And there is a longgg list from just this summer of other examples. In Dallas, Boston, Baltimore, just about every major city in the country has turned out in droves for European PRESEASON games in the last few years. The idea of playing regular season games over here has been floated but owners are willing to give up lucrative home games. It hasss even been suggested of putting teams in the states as well. ESPN does air live EPL and La Liga matches. Not to mention the multiple other channels airing live games. It is very easy for American soccer fans to find coverage of the beautiful game right here in the states, and they do in staggering numbers. Your comparison is very much a stretch… Finally, FIFA is soccer’s world governing body. Its not a league. US Soccer is a member of FIFA. MLS is a FIFA recognized league. FIFA already has 14 teams in the United States, including one that plays in Gilette Stadium. Your example should have used the English Premier League, Serie A or La Liga. Just some research next time would be appreciated before you pretend to know something about the global interest in real football.
No pretending here
I’m quite sure I know about the global interest in football. It’s one of, if not, THE most popular sport in the world. I just don’t get it because I was brought up with American Football and am fiercely passionate about it. Why else would I take on a gig as an NFL blogger?
Regarding my comparison about soccer and football, you misinterpreted what was written. I’m quite sure European games played here are WILDLY popular because it’s the real thing. It’s teams, like Manchester United, with tons of history who have been around forever. The Pats vs. Bucs game at Wembley is similar; I’m sure it will be wildly popular, but does that mean a franchise or league would work?
Blogger at SBNation's Patriots blog, Pats Pulpit
Replying
Again, agreed the franchise in either situation is silly… simply saying that comparing American interest to European soccer and European interest to American football really isn’t very close… overall I appreciate your stance on keeping the NFL out of Europe. If they want some American football action then they should sustain their own league or get awarded pre-season games.
Sorry indeed, MaPatsFan
but I’ll be damned if I ever start speaking heathen American-English. Aha.
The main problem I see here is getting the locals to care.
Firstly, unless the NFL comes up with special rules (unlikely and probably detrimental anyway), a London-based franchise will be drafting American players in the normal draft system. The problem? Why would an average Londoner care if the franchise drafts some kid QB from LSU or WVa or USC? None of those will make sense to the non-initiated. So it’s just some nobody they’ve never heard of coming to play a sport they don’t watch against people they’ve never heard of playing for teams they have no clue about. If they wanted to do that they could watch the NFL games from home, and since they don’t, you can presume they don’t particularly want to.
The other main problem I forsee is the saturation of the London market by existing sports franchises that the English have already invested time, money and history into. Everyone seems aware of soccer, but maybe not the particular depth of it in London. In particular, London already has five teams in the Premier League football competition, and a further eight in other professional football competitions. Every one of these has decades or centuries of traditions, scandals, rivalries, grudges and the like, and they take it very, very seriously. Think the Pats-Jets rivalry or the Tuck Rule issue are big? The English don’t swap coaches. They pick up their chain and club, go to the next suburb, and beat up some locals. That’s how much they’ve personally invested in their clubs; prying their loyalty away from them for an NFL franchise of which they could name no players (let alone positions) isn’t going to happen.
If you move onto similar sports, the English already have Rugby Union and Rugby League. There are 51 Rugby Union clubs in London, according to the RFU website. Rugby Union particularly attracts the white-collar and University-attending players who don’t go for football. Rugby League is smaller in London, but has a great number of followers in the northern/blue collar towns, so that market is sewn up.
In other words, the target audience is already swamped for choice, unlike the US. You might get an intial spike for one-off games from US ex-pats and rubberneckers, but a dedicated year-long fanbase? Unlikely.
If i may pick some holes in your arguements
The main problem I see here is getting the locals to care.
If a team is based in London it will attract fans from the UK, Ireland, Holland, Northern Germany, Denmark and Norway. All nations within a couple of hours travelling time of London. A catchment area of around 100 million people, with a small, but dedicated, fanbase. Getting fans into the stadium will not be a problem.
Why would an average Londoner care if the franchise drafts some kid QB from LSU or WVa or USC?
They would only care if he was drafted by their team. Remember over half the people playing in the English premier league are forigen, most of whom now one has ever heard of until their team signs them.
The other main problem I forsee is the saturation of the London market by existing sports franchises
It is possible to be a fan of more than one sport. :-)
They pick up their chain and club, go to the next suburb, and beat up some locals.
That really is yesterdays news
The past is fixed, the future is unknown, try dealing with the present!
How large is the fanbase?
Apart from the huge logistical problems, I think the size of the fan base is in question. Sure, the games have sold out in minutes so far, but that is because they attract people from not just London but the rest of Europe as well.
Here in Denmark it is used heavily for promotion purposes – the stations broadcasting arrange trips to London, it is broadcast in cinemas in major cities etc. – but you can only argue “unique opportunity” so many times. Being able to sell 70.000 tickets one sunday does not necessarily mean being able to sell 560.000 in half a year.
Here NFL has become quite popular, a popularity pretty much build over the last ten years since regular live-broadcasting of games began, and I really think good games on television is the most important mean to increase popularity further. Having a game in London a year helps build interest, but putting some marquee match-ups in the 1 pm slot is probably better. I remember Peter King complaining about a Pats-Colts game in this slot a couple of years ago, beacuse it wouldn’t be broadcast nationally in the US, but for people in Europe who actually have a life (and a job to get up to monday morning) it was a treat.
(BTW – the best way to kill interest here would be to force Europeans to watch the European team every week, even if the matchup is boring. Whatever happens, most fans here will be fans of one or two US teams and they couldn’t care less about the 1-6 London Jaguars vs the 3-4 Buffalo Bills. )
i agree that a Team in London, or Frankfurt, or Copenhagen, or even Aahus needs to be successful, which is why i dont think an expansion team would work here. It would need to be an established team.
Another option might be to have a European team, maybe 3 games in London, 3 in Frankfurt, one in Barcelona one in Amsterdam or where ever to try to catch as many of the European fans as possible. How about the Europa Jaguars?
The past is fixed, the future is unknown, try dealing with the present!
Europa Jaguars
I like the sound of that! And it might even make the Europeans cheer for Europe outside of the Ryder Cup.
Still, I don’t like the idea. A European team will already be the most-travelled team in the league and only playing 3 homegames where they are based will just make it worse. For commercial purposes it might work, but it just wouldn’t add up from the competitive standpoint.
I will promise this, though: If the NFL places a team, expansion or otherwise, in Aarhus I will buy season tickets ;-)
So you would drop the Pats?
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Oct 24, 2009 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe the Pats are moved?
Besides, Aarhus has some 250.000 inhabitants, so I guess hell freezes over before THAT happens.
by hythlodaeus on Oct 25, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't really thing you can move a team named Patriots
it won’t be very patriotic. You know?
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Oct 25, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Not bad at all.
Hope it never happens.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Oct 25, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I considered all that
So you’re suggesting that all those people “within a couple of hours travelling time” will travel every second week to London, over the 4, 5 month of the NFL season, year after year? Rather optimistic. That’s the same number of people in the same size catchment for the Buffalo Bills, Oakland Raiders, Seattle Seahawks and Detroit Lions. And they’re all doing wonderfully financially and fan-wise. Erm…
You imagine that the locals will care about some kid being drafted solely because he was drafted by the local franchise? That’s very optimistic. It ties into your statement that “over half the players in the Premier League are foreign”. That’s right – but it’s also forgetting the most vital point – that almost half of the players in the Premier League aren’t foreign. The top clubs, who can afford pretty much anyone they like, still go out of their way to keep, promote and sign local talent, in order to foster local loyalty. Man U, richest sports franchise on the planet, have always had a local guys in their top flight – Beckham, Rooney, Giggs, Neville, Scholes, Ferdinand. How many English NFL players are around? I can’t name any. If Manchester United realises that it’s important to have local ties in the squad, what does that say about an NFL franchise in the UK?
This ties into the third point you picked out – that the London market is saturated by other sports. I’ll admit it is possible to be a fan of one sport – but if you had the choice of supporting a second sport in which you might know the players, rules, etc etc, versus watching an American sport with American players that you aren’t aware of the rules, teams, players, and the like, why would you be drawn to the latter? It’s a competitive market, and people have only got so many hours to dedicate to watching sport – I don’t see it as likely that a great number will suddenly change their loyalties to a strange sport they have no ties to and don’t understand solely because it’s there.
by Comedic.Sans on Oct 24, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
What about Canada?
Before the blokes get a team, we need to see a Canadian team! I think that Quebec is ready!! The CFL sucks really hard and the fans know it!!
Those of you who think you know everything just annoy those of us who do!!
NFL in Europe
i have just one thing to say..
NFL Europe.
by heartherevenge on Oct 24, 2009 11:49 AM EDT reply actions
i'm mixed, but...
it would be kinda cool if whoever wins the superbowl or which conference wins the probowl in america, can face whoever won the superbowl or probowl in europe. Battle between East vs. West.
They could always play the Pro Bowl in Europe
they used the trip to Hawai’i thing as an incentive for players to go. It’s a spectacle because they air it out more and they don’t want to injure people. And it’s the best of the best players going at it. This would fit a lot more – giving European fans a look at the best around, and giving NFL players a trip to Europe as a reward for a Pro Bowl season.
by Comedic.Sans on Oct 24, 2009 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions
i guess so
but the players might pick the nice warm climate of hawaii than the cold, february climate of europe.
i wouldn’t mind if europe made its own league though, but i can’t see it work that well. maybe the nfl can have the games televised in europe. Also, i don’t mind if the nfl sends two teams a year to europe to play each other, as long as they play the superbowl here in america.
by patriotguy2 on Oct 24, 2009 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Games are televised
That’s what created the interest in the first place. Here, I can watch whenever someone is playing: Three games sunday, monday night – which really IS night here – thanksgiving, playoffs etc.
We even have flexible scheduling: The two early games sunday are set a couple of weeks in advance, so we avoid the most terrible matchups.
by hythlodaeus on Oct 25, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
‘Games aren’t broadcast, you have to find an internet feed…it makes it all the harder’
Eh?. Here in Britain, two different TV channels, one satellite and one terrestrial, show live games from the NFL every week, as well as ‘Total Access’ and NFL documentaries, highlights shows….
Even the BBC shows the Wembley game and the Superbowl live, as well as an NFL game live on BBC Radio.
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