Fourth and two
Was this a questionable call?
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42 comments
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Tough team
The Patriots are a great team, and they helped make this game an all-timer. Hat’s off for being a tough team. These two teams are so evenly matched that the difference between winning and losing was literally one yard.
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by BigBlueShoe on Nov 16, 2009 12:25 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
While I personally wouldn't have done it
I think the poll is biased because of hindsight.
Phin-bassador/ Head Weatherman/ Injury Specialist of the Phinsider.
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Long you live and high you fly. But only if you ride the tide. And balanced on the biggest wave, you race towards an early grave.
by Farorefox on Nov 16, 2009 12:36 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
totaly agree
GO COLTS!!! 09 IS OURS!!!
by TheAngelsColts on Nov 16, 2009 12:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agree as well
I feel like the Colts would have just easily marched down and scored a TD if we punted
by Justin_Bobo on Nov 16, 2009 10:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well
now that we know what happened… we all know the answer is he should not have gone for it…
but if the refs gave him that extra inch and we got the first down… its a brilliant decision.. and he was right to go for it
by matthewmafa on Nov 16, 2009 12:37 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Tru dat
Phin-bassador/ Head Weatherman/ Injury Specialist of the Phinsider.
Bender: Who wants dolphin? Leela: Dolphin? But dolphins are intelligent. Bender: Not this one. He blew all his money on instant lottery tickets.
Long you live and high you fly. But only if you ride the tide. And balanced on the biggest wave, you race towards an early grave.
by Farorefox on Nov 16, 2009 12:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i was thinking the same thing
During the game i was thinking it was a bad idea, but if you look at it as 3yrds for the win or give peyton 2 mins+ to drive down field….i would try to go for the win and hope that the defense can stop him from 30 yrds out if you don’t make it. the colts had some lucky breaks like the maroney fumble and the lack of challenges in the last quarter…You play to win the game
by lololol on Nov 16, 2009 12:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and no challange was cause of bad chooses in when to call the timeouts i think. it did look like the right call by the refs
to
GO COLTS!!! 09 IS OURS!!!
by TheAngelsColts on Nov 16, 2009 12:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
eh
Let’s say Pats punt, Colts drive down and score… we’d all be second guessing BBs punting the ball away on 4th and 2.
As long as we’re speculating here or coaching from our armchairs in hindsight – If Maroney holds onto the football in the endzone, this call never has to be made.
Keep the faith!
by Marima on Nov 16, 2009 7:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's what I keep thinking
Ignoring the fact that, statistically speaking, more coaches should go for it on 4th-and-short situations (given the probability of converting) than actually do, that fumble was ridiculous. I don’t know how many baseball fans are here, but it reminded me of getting caught between third base and home and being tagged out—you just don’t do it, and you look like an idiot if you do. You DO NOT FUMBLE within 5 yards. Even if they had just settled for a field goal, they would still have won. There’s no excuse for fumbling that close to the goal line.
by LegendaryTadpole on Nov 16, 2009 8:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
agreed, as well as
if Brady is not picked off trying to hit Moss in the endzone (for once this year I wish he HAD overthrown Moss by a yard or two).
The Patriots had several key opportunities to ice the game and just came up short.
Frustrating.
by mmmmm on Nov 16, 2009 1:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Get it and we win the game...
…don’t and we lose.
Punt and we have a greater chance of winning. I would have gone for the punt. I thought our offense was only on the field out of hope that the Colts would burn a time out and we’d send out punting unit out on the field after the TO.
by The Hill on Nov 16, 2009 12:43 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
if we don;t get it doesn;t mean a loss
the defense coulda stopped manning from 30 yrds out…but they gave up 2 10+ yrd plays which really burned us. i mean if ur gonna give em a give play might as well let them have a td so brady can get the balll back with 1min +
by lololol on Nov 16, 2009 12:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We have a MUCH better chance...
…of stopping Manning from driving 75 yards than of stopping him 30 yards. Sure, he’s very good, but he hadn’t had the long ball ALL GAME. They had 2 minutes and 1 time out. He was also basically playing without Dallas Clark. Collie was dropping passes like the ball was on fire and Garcon was playing on and off. I trust our defense more than that.
Also, why would we NOT have Bodden on Wayne?
Also, I noticed a distinct LACK of Meriweather and McGowan. Anyone think Meriweather’s injury was more than it was cracked up to be?
by The Hill on Nov 16, 2009 12:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeahhh!!
meriweather and mcgowan where nonexistent today it seemed like…
a lot of wilhite and bodden tho but most of wilhites where because he was tackling wayne after a 10 yard recpetion..
by matthewmafa on Nov 16, 2009 12:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
true hill but 2 min. is a lot of time to give manning.
it is harder though than 30 but BB knows and has seen what manning can do with that much time it was a risk. obviously now it was a bad call…just dont be like the media and claim you won the game lol. anyway great game!!!!!
GO COLTS!!! 09 IS OURS!!!
by TheAngelsColts on Nov 16, 2009 12:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I mean...
…I think everyone but Hoodie thought it was a bad call right from when we saw the offense still on the field. He was playing to win, but it was a little too aggressive for his own good.
by The Hill on Nov 16, 2009 12:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yea even i was shocked he went for it i must say.
im not talking about you but im tired already of all the people in the postgame and media and such saying that the pats one because they donminated and yet the score says otherwise. and we know that when you guys pull off a comeback against a good team like we did they say your clutch and a great team however give the colts no credit when they do it as you see now with the media
GO COLTS!!! 09 IS OURS!!!
by TheAngelsColts on Nov 16, 2009 12:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
of cource he shouldnt have gone for it but if he did and made it
people would say he was a genius for going for it but since he failded then he was dumb. risky call that just didn’t work out cant get all of them right
GO COLTS!!! 09 IS OURS!!!
by TheAngelsColts on Nov 16, 2009 12:46 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
when the colts had the ball with 1:15 remaining on the 15 yard line
and they gave it to addai… who else thought that the patriots should have let him score a touchdown?? if you let him score a touchdown you get the ball back with 1:10 on the clock only needing a fieldgoal to win… instead the patriots tackled him on the 1 yard line and all the timeon the cloock ran out..
by matthewmafa on Nov 16, 2009 12:49 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
poor deicision
the jets earlier today tried to give MJD a td so they cna have the ball back but MJD was smart enough to not go in. I doubt addai would not have gone td cuz i don’t think he is as smart as MJD lol…
by lololol on Nov 16, 2009 12:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If we face the colts again....
i don’t see us losing again.
by lololol on Nov 16, 2009 12:53 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
The 4th and 2 was absolutely indefensible for 31 other quarterbacks in the NFL. However, Peyton Manning is not 31 other quarterbacks in the NFL. He’s Peyton Manning.
Think about it this way: if Kevin Faulk makes it three more feet, the Colts get their first L of the season, and the Pats have an inside edge on homefield in the AFC.
Instead, Colts win. Savaging Belichick for that playcall is, frankly, ridiculous. If you punt, you’re trusting your defense to stop Peyton Manning with two minutes and a timeout. If you make it, you assume the Victory formation and walk away winners. If you don’t make it, Peyton has two minutes and a timeout to go 30 yards.
Either way, that was a hell of a game. This rivalry gets better every year.
Bob Sanders eats a forest on Friday so he can lay the wood on Sunday.
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by MonkeyBusiness on Nov 16, 2009 12:55 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Just think....
…this game was missing half of our D-Line and half of your secondary. Half of our backfield and your #2 receiver. Pats win 50% of the time in this scenario, Colts win in the other 50%. Just the Colts’ day.
by The Hill on Nov 16, 2009 12:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
true
players missing everywhere and still one heck of a game. i was watching with my pat friend and he said and i quote “who the fuck is isiah stanback?”
i knew who he was and laughed at him lol.
As long as we have Peyton we will always have a chance to win.
by skywalker on Nov 16, 2009 1:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
beside first round bye implications and bragging rights...
this loss hurt but was not bad nor as impacting as it seems. We can win the rest of our games and this loss will just fade away til the next time these teams meet.
by lololol on Nov 16, 2009 1:01 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
yeah
this isnt a huge loss at all.. pats still gonna make the playoffs… we just might not have home field anymore..
by matthewmafa on Nov 16, 2009 1:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Remember -
Two weeks from now. Superdome. New Orleans Saints.
Yea, I know, we stunk up the joint in St. Louis today with a sloppy win. In N.O., though, very different. We claim to be focused on our next game, the Bucs @ Tampa, but the N.E. game on Monday night is very much on our minds. If we beat you guys, there will be a collective gasp in the Dome that will suck the air right out of the stadium! We are already two games past our previous franchise record of 7-0. We are living on borrowed time and traveling in uncharted waters. Pretty good excuse for drinking more this year than last year, I guess!
As the game draws near, expect to see this posted in “Pats Pulpit” numerous times:
Geaux Saints! Who Dat! (If anyone would like a translation please feel free to ask.) Good luck, boys.
Fat, dumb, and happy. Hell, two out of three ain't bad!
by Just 'Nother Day on Nov 16, 2009 6:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Almost forgot ~
Going for it = bad idea, and not just in hindsight.
Fat, dumb, and happy. Hell, two out of three ain't bad!
by Just 'Nother Day on Nov 16, 2009 6:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the going for it doesn't bother me.
But the third down call does. If you’re in four down territory, and the clock is an issue, why are you passing!
"These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
by Mainiac on Nov 16, 2009 1:14 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
And if you intend to go for it on first down...
why not do some running back dive play and get a yard or two to make it that little bit easier? Two dives and you’ve got a pretty easy first down. Game over.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 16, 2009 5:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
*fourth down. Bleh.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 16, 2009 5:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How did Darius Butler play
How did Darius Butler play was able to maintain the left CB spot?
by Dubai on Nov 16, 2009 5:50 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Never fear.
The Big Picture says a 1 point loss to an 8-0 team on the road out of the division is not that big a deal. The Pat’s schedule looks a lot more benign the rest of the way than the Colt’s schedule, btw.
The best news is the Pat’s D is about as good as it has been in many a year; and has gotten way younger…. overnight. This is bad news for the rest of the league, as youngsters get better and better….. and the Pat’s are LOADED with draft picks. The future’s so bright we have to wear shades.
Warm up the Duck Boats!!!
by BabeParilli on Nov 16, 2009 6:31 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!
Fat, dumb, and happy. Hell, two out of three ain't bad!
by Just 'Nother Day on Nov 16, 2009 6:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
colts fan here with my respect for a great team
Advanced NFL stats thinks your coach made the Best % decision. also to take into account is that your D gave up 21 points and 130+ yards in the 4th, i think they were tired and missing key players they would have not be able to stop the colts from their 34, look at how that last 30yards played out it was too easy for the colts to score in the end and your coach knew it. one more comment about the 4th and 2 ; faulk made the catch with one foot in the air , in the NFL the catch is not completed until both feet hit the ground ,there for the catch was marked as a completion when his shoulder touched the ground short of the first down, this was the right call , even if they challenge it or review it it would have stand. Our D made the stop and deserve the credit for it, but this game will go to the classics and your team played an almost perfect game for 3 quarters , the 4th was all colts.
a quote from Advanced stats site:
With 2:00 left and the Colts with only one timeout, a successful conversion wins the game for all practical purposes. A 4th and 2 conversion would be successful 60% of the time. Historically, in a situation with 2:00 left and needing a TD to either win or tie, teams get the TD 53% of the time from that field position. The total WP for the 4th down conversion attempt would therefore be:
(0.60 * 1) + (0.40 * (1-0.53)) = 0.79 WP
A punt from the 28 typically nets 38 yards, starting the Colts at their own 34. Teams historically get the TD 30% of the time in that situation. So the punt gives the Pats about a 0.70 WP.
Statistically, the better decision would be to go for it, and by a good amount.
by thebossuzzi on Nov 16, 2009 7:53 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
and..
However, these numbers are baselines for the league as a whole. You’d have to expect the Colts had a better than a 30% chance of scoring from their 34, and an accordingly higher chance to score from the Pats’ 28. But any adjustment in their likelihood of scoring from either field position increases the advantage of going for it. You can play with the numbers any way you like, but it’s pretty hard to come up with a realistic combination of numbers that make punting the better option.
by thebossuzzi on Nov 16, 2009 8:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
seemed okay to me.
"These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
by Mainiac on Nov 16, 2009 10:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought that should have been a first down of that 4th and 2 but I don't make the calls
Don't question my fandominium.
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by dolphinsinbuffalo on Nov 16, 2009 7:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I still agree with the refs.
I feel he did not have possession until he had moved back over the line. But I don’t make the calls either.
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Bender: Who wants dolphin? Leela: Dolphin? But dolphins are intelligent. Bender: Not this one. He blew all his money on instant lottery tickets.
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by Farorefox on Nov 17, 2009 11:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Technically speaking
we ought to have lost the Bills game in the opener if we didn’t get gifted a special teams fumble. In a game of inches, if you let an inch decide it one day you might get burned the other way the next. I’m just glad we beat the Dolphins and followed it up by hanging tough with a playoff caliber team; I was worried that the Titans/Bucs games were setting us up for a big letdown.
by sc4rs on Nov 17, 2009 12:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

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