Belichick Made the Right Call
[Editor's Note: I thought this was an excellent read by Professor Todd. While some may not agree with his assessment of Belichick's 4th and 2, he at least presents a very cogent analysis of the game and why our head coach went in that direction]
I know, I know. Everybody on NBC and on NFL network (except Deion Sanders) couldn't believe that Bill Belichick
went for it on 4th and 2 at the 30 but come on....does anyone really think the Patriots (or anybody else in the NFL) would have stopped Manning if they had punted the ball in that situation? He had just moved 70 yards against our defense in what seemed like 25 seconds. What exactly would have prevented a replay of that?
Let's reexamine the call. The Patriots offense is one of the best around and they moved the ball at will against the NFL's top-ranked defense last night and scored 34 points. They just needed two yards to get a new set of downs and Belichick--justifiably--believed his offense could get those two yards. Maybe you can question the play call itself--Welker looked open slightly deeper down the field, or maybe you run the ball on 3rd and 2 to set up another run or Brady sneak on 4th and inches--but the logic behind going for it there is still good. It's not just that the New England offense is really good and can get two yards but that the effect of a first down there is to keep the ball away from Manning. With a better spot--did they ever show a measurement or the exact placement of the ball?--they would have gotten it, run out the clock, and won the game. Belichick went for it on 4th and short against Atlanta in week 3 at our own 24 (or something) and later explained his decision by saying simply: "I thought we could gain a yard." Last night it was two yards but the logic and the thinking was the same--and, again, it was the best (maybe the ONLY) possible defense against Manning in that situation.
Give the Colts credit for playing until the very end and for making the plays they had to make. Manning is absolutely phenomenal. But the Colts benefited from two questionable calls that greatly aided their comeback: a phantom pass interference call against Butler defending Austin Collie that resulted in a 31 yard gain and set up the Addai touchdown that cut the margin to 34-28; and the spot and the call on Faulk's catch on the 4th and 2.
But those officiating calls weren't where the Patriots lost the game, any more than they supposedly lost it because of Belichick's decision to go for it. Instead, New England lost last night because, while dominating the 3rd quarter and possessing the ball for over 11 minutes, they failed to score on either of two deep drives into the red zone. On the first, Brady was intercepted in the end zone by Bethea after a nice drive. Then, after an even better drive, Maroney fumbled inside the 5 and the Colts recovered in the end zone for a touch back. A field goal on either one of those drives would have put us ahead 27-14 athe the time; 34-14 after the Brady to Moss TD early in the 4th (after Welker's great return), and 37-21 after the Gostkowski field goal at around 4 minutes. That's a three score game and would have required the Colts to score two TDs and two 2-point conversions just to tie. Needless to say, a touchdown on either of those drives would have given the Pats leads of 31-14 on that score, 38-14 after the Brady to Moss TD, and 41-21 after the field goal with 4 minutes left. Game over. But these season-long red zone miscues--while only holding down our victory margin in previous games--killed us tonight. By not closing out the Colts in the 3rd and early 4th quarter, the Patriots gave them just enough space and time to come back.
The loss is extremely disappointing. New England had possibly the best team in the league on the ropes and beaten. On the road. A win would have given us a 3 game lead in the division and moved us right into great position to claim home field advantage for the playoffs in the event of a tiebreaker with the Colts.
But there is much to be pleased about with this game. The Patriots pushed around possibly the best team in the league for most of the game. They moved the ball at will and scored 34 points and the defense came up with two picks and some big stops during the first 56 minutes of the game. Special teams played great. There is a lot about to be happy about despite the loss (although that's all that Patriot nation can really feel right now). And let's not forget that Indianapolis--for whatever reasons--turns into pumpkins at playoff time (especially if San Diego is their opponent). The Colts might lose before the Patriots would have to face them in Indy in the playoffs. But even if the Colts win and there's a playoff rematch at Lucas Oil Stadium, New England knows that it came in here and pushed the Colts back on the heels and (coulda, shoulda, woulda) beatem them. In fact, the Pats did everything except win the game--but, of course, that's the only thing that counts. I doubt they will have any fears of facing Indianapolis here again in January if it comes to that. All the pressure would be on the Colts and I'd like the Pats chances in that game.
Besides how well they played for most of the game last night, there's another silver lining about yesterday's results. The Jets lost again and are now in free fall, coming into Foxboro next week. As a result, even with the loss tonight New England is still two games up in the division. The Patriots already have a score to settle with the Jets already, and now need to exorcise the demons from the Indianapolis game as well. A win next week and we're 7-3 and lead the division by at least two games (if Miami wins) or three games (if Miami loses). Sure, the Saints are great but I don't think Brees is quite as good as Manning, nor do I think the Saints D is as good as the Colts defense. I like our chances in the Monday night game in New Orleans. And then it's a tough road game in Miami and then on to the final four-pack of games against very beatable foes and a chance to wrap up the season with a nice medium sized winning streak.
You do what you have to do to win games and, although in an ideal world we would have so far ahead that it wouldn't have come down to this, Belichick's call last night was exactly the right one. It's not so much a matter of not trusting your defense, it's a matter of trusting your offense to pick up two yards and run out the clock. I still say keeping the ball out of Manning's hands entirely is better than kicking it two him with 2 minutes, one timeout, and 70 yards to go. The game was lost by the failure to score in the 3rd quarter; not by the decision to go for it on 4th down.
Now, let's go run up the score on the Jets. In the meantime, we should probably all just ignore the torrent of second-guessing and criticism from the national sports media that is sure to come in the days ahead.
The views expressed in these FanPosts are not necessarily those of the writers or SBNation.
0 recs |
83 comments
|
Comments
The voice of reason
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Nov 16, 2009 9:31 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
can't remember where I read it
Or if it’s even accurate, but I remember hearing statistically that it is better to always go for it on 4th down, even in your own territory. But I think it was just an anecdote about some high school coach who didn’t have a punter or something. Who knows.
Last night I was pretty frustrated, but after cooling off this morning I felt the same way as you guys do: we had the chance to win the game there, at 2:08, rather than putting it into the hands of one of the most prolific players in history and trying to hang on. Given the team’s historical 4th down conversion rate under Bill and the way the defense started giving up scores to Peyton in the 3rd, I think there’s a lot of sense made in that decision, and it took a lot of guts.
by jctsai12 on Nov 16, 2009 10:32 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
here's the story
Not a very large sample size (one high school team), and not a high level of competition, so maybe the conclusions are somewhat suspect, but there’s a lot of good points raised. More options in play-calling, statistical support from the college level, etc.
by jctsai12 on Nov 16, 2009 12:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty good chart here:
http://www.advancednflstats.com/2009/09/4th-down-study-part-4.html
Same site with that quick writeup last night. Basically, when you’re talking NFL averages, that scenario puts it right on the line on an expected return basis. When you factor in that it’s the Pats offense and not anything resembling an NFL average, that changes, plus that other QB and the situation changes it more.
I LOVED the call. I wish more coaches would make it. As a Colts fan in the stands directly behind the Pats bench, my shoulders slumped when Brady went back out because I expected them to convert and end the game. I had some confidence if they punted, but not if they went. The Pats get 2 yards in that spot over 80% of the time, I bet. The call was solid.
Of course, ultimately I loved the result for the Colts, but an awful lot had to go right just to get that stop. I couldn’t argue if they spotted him over the line even after the bobble because it was that close. The pressure up the middle was great, the coverage was great, and it still took some extraordinary luck to get the stop. Another inch lower, Faulk may catch it without the bobble. Game over.
To me the only bad part of that decision was not making it a play earlier. They didn’t appear to play 3rd down with a 2 down mindset. Brady looked resigned to punt after the 3rd down play. I hate to quote Easterbrook, but if they just ran it on third, knowing they’d do it again on 4th if they failed, I think they win.
That was an awesome first half by the Pats and a mostly awesome 2nd half by the Colts. WHEN these teams meet again, both will add key players and have this experience to draw on. It’ll be another long and stressful game. I am not looking forward to it.
by willyduer on Nov 16, 2009 2:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Cooling off process always sucks
of course, my Broncos really shouldn’t have been in that position. McDaniels and Jabar Gaffney are good ex-Patriots, but Chris Simms is a terrible ex-Buccaneer
Brad James
by the Bradfather on Nov 16, 2009 12:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Really got to wonder..
Why didn’t they run it on 3rd down? The incomplete to welker stopped the clock, and if the Colts didn’t burn their final TO, the clock would have ticked down to the 2-minute warning, permitting booth challenges. It seemed like our power O was running effectively on them.
by jmm1776 on Nov 16, 2009 10:38 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
that was my problem
Two runs up the gut would have probably gotten two yards, or at least given us more options.
"These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
by Mainiac on Nov 16, 2009 11:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
The worst part about it is that it seems like they didn’t think it through. Burning a timeout before coming out with a draw on 1st down (who on earth didnt see that coming?), and actually the thing that really bugs me….When they were up 10, why didnt they gamble and go for the TD rather than going up by 13. I was immediately worried about that decision— THAT’S the time when you try to put it out of reach. Like 10 and 13 are that different when you’re going against Peyton freakin Manning in the 4th qtr.
by ElephantEyelash on Nov 16, 2009 1:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
As soon as they kicked that field goal...
I knew the Colts had the game. The momentum had definitely shifted and there was little doubt that Peyton was going to score every time he got the ball from there on out. The 4th and 2 call was the only chance. If that ball gets in Peyton’s hands the game is over.
by invisibulman on Nov 16, 2009 3:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Forget about trying to run it with the game on the line...
I think I would call a pass play like that. But with the GAME on the line, they should have set it up for MOSS or WELKER…Not Faulk…
by Patriot1 on Nov 17, 2009 7:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Forget about trying to run it with the game on the line...
A run with the game on the line is MORE risky. The Colts probably would have stuffed the run with the game on the line…
by Patriot1 on Nov 17, 2009 7:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks Professor
Good perspective here. Absolutely hated to lose, but there were enough positives to soften the blow.
Keep the faith!
by Marima on Nov 16, 2009 10:39 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Ummmm
Kevin Faulk made the first down right? Isn’t that what you guys all think?
by sirpinochle on Nov 16, 2009 11:02 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I was surprised
by how quickly the announcers declared that he was short. Even during all the replays, he looked like he finally possessed the ball right on the first-down line. Even if he didn’t make it, I think the play warranted a couple more angles from NBC and some better announcing so at least the fans would be more sure.
Again, regardless of whether he made it, I think the spot was unfriendly. If he wasn’t right at the first down, he wasn’t any more than a couple inches short.
by LegendaryTadpole on Nov 16, 2009 12:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with this
I think the official was right to make the bobble call, but he seemed so eager to show that he knew that, or his brain focused so much on that, that maybe he waited a bit too long to award him actual possession. I think he had full control as soon as he touched it the 2nd time, lower to his body. And I think when that happened, he was way closer to the 30 than they spotted it.
Without a camera straight on that line from the Pats bench side, we’ll never know – the best view, from up above at about the 20, is still off just enough that we can’t tell. But I’m a Colts fan and if they gave them the spot for a first down, I would not be complaining.
by willyduer on Nov 16, 2009 2:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ok somethint interesting
i saw the replay over and over from close and above. if you watch and see where he stops bobbling the ball and when he does is right when his foot is leaving the ground you see some dirt and grass come up where his toe touched. that foot was just inside the 30 yard line and his upper body and the ball was even more inside
GO COLTS!!! 09 IS OURS!!!
by TheAngelsColts on Nov 16, 2009 6:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
was it really though?
I thought he was kind of sideways at the time, not angled that way, with the ball well behind the toe.
It’s just so hard to tell.
by willyduer on Nov 16, 2009 7:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he could have, but...
how do you call a play so close to the line when you know you have no timeouts and cant challenge?
by ElephantEyelash on Nov 16, 2009 1:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Colts fan...
I thought he had it, but the linesman was right on top of it and made the call immediatly. I don’t think you can over turn that even on a review. I was discussing the play with a friend of mine who made an interesting point…. if the receiver only has one foot down can you give him forward progress? Obviously, on a sideline you need both feet on the ground to count as posession. Does the same apply to the middle of the field? If that is the case, I think Faulk only ever had one foot on the ground before being pushed back. Would make the bobble irrelivant.
by invisibulman on Nov 16, 2009 3:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely you can
If a running back jumps of the line for a touchdown, breaks the plane, but gets knocked be by a linebacker does he get forward progress and the touchdown? Yes. Do his feet touch? No. The reason they don’t do that in the middle of the field is the officials still need to spot the ball. It’s and easier call when you’re on the ground.
There have been a number of crap spots in the last few weeks. This one wasn’t as bad as some. There was one spot that was off by about a yard and a half based on forward progress. Good overhead shot, bad spot.
Still, the Pats should have scored in the third and it wouldn’t matter.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Nov 16, 2009 3:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Tons of crap spots in every game
Didn’t the Pats get one like 5 yards off that cost them a safety in the snow? Inexcusable.
This will happen as long as these are allowed to be total guesswork with human error involved. They judge it in real time with their own eyes, when they can’t possibly know for sure where the ball is when the man is in possession, they spot it by eye, they set the chains by eye… and then we have to sit through the charade of measuring, as if those eyeball-set markers are some amazing authority. It’s another level of human error from what’s correct, really.
And did we really need to measure that one? Once the ball was set, we knew the result, because after a touchback, the 30 yard line is clearly the line to gain.
This has nothing to do with last night. But I really hate the chain gang.
by willyduer on Nov 16, 2009 3:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
One they blew was in the center of the field with the logo clearly shown in the replay.
It wasn’t even close. Still, if you’re counting on the Zebras to win, you don’t deserve to.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Nov 16, 2009 3:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i think he did to
The patriots Are the best I dont care what you say what you think, Nothing!!!!!!!!!
by andrew29910 on Nov 16, 2009 5:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
this blog is great today
My wife is a Patriots fans and I watch all the games with her. I am going to copy and print this post for her. I wanted to punch my radio listening to WEEI this morning. Dennis the Menace and Stupidhan. Jerks. The Pats looked great last night. Belichik made the right call. And as a non-fan I can stress this more than you guys: It was the right call because IT DID GET THE TWO YARDS. I wanted to poo in my hand and throw it at that referee watching the side judge come in with that spectacularly bad spot. It’s like they completely and conveniently forgot about forward motion for that one play.
Good luck Pats, you played a great game. Sorry about the bad spot which was a huge and wrong factor in the outcome. The perspective here, however, is correct about missed points and you guys are more mature about this than I am.
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Nov 16, 2009 12:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Rewatching the faulk catch...i still thought the ball was placed wayy off the mark
i’m not saying it’s a first down, faulk bobbled it when he was in front of the line but when he had possession and his foot came down it was on the line. That would have made it a much clsoer call and it should have since it looked like the refs moved it back way too much. Watch the NFL.com replay of it, clearly faulk had the ball when his foot was down and it was a matter of if he foot was enough on the line or not. But the ref moved it to where his body was down which is WRONG since he had possession and it was forward progress. this also reminded me of how shannhan went for a 2 pt conversion for the win instead of just keeping a tie and OT. He was praised cuz it worked but had it fail, he woulda been grilled like BB.
On a side note, i’m fully expecting this team to have a chip on their shoulder and completely try to crush every team in their way til the rematch in the playoffs. Remember how after spygate the pats went on a tear, well we know this offense is back and iwon;t doubt if they decide to
by lololol on Nov 16, 2009 12:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
Honestly, the fact that the Colts pulled it out makes me more scared about the rematch. They will be pissed that they let this one get away. Psychology-wise, I feel like a Pats blowout might’ve left the Colts in better shape going forward. It’s on their coaching staff now to not let the glee from the win overshadow the many mistakes they made and issues they need to fix.
by willyduer on Nov 16, 2009 2:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't worry so much about the rematch.
The Colts really showed their hand in a lot of ways. Freeney won’t scare Vollmer, which means Belichick can scheme a way to neutralise Mathis without worrying about the other side of the line. No Colts pass-rush means Brady will have extra time to find Moss – and Moss has shown he can get some leverage against the Colts secondary.
Maroney hasn’t been used as a goaline back until now, and only because they have to, so when the others get back things will improve there. Morris seems to be on the improve and his name is cropping up more in the press, so I gather he’s not that far from returning. That gives the Pats a genuine goaline burrower to get those points without fumbles.
Finally, Manning is still Manning, but now Bill has had a look at the matchups and can adjust them to take away Manning’s targets – Hoodie now knows Chung can sit on Dallas Clark instead of McGowan, for instance. He also got to see how the third and fourth Colts receivers did against various Pats combinations, and the mixing and matching means Hoodie has plenty of tape to figure out how to take guys away in various situations. Manning showed his vulnerability on a couple of drives where they Pats did take away his primary reads, so that’ll instill a little confidence.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 16, 2009 5:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
All of this is precisely why I'm worried.
I’m a Colts fan.
I think at this point both teams know what they’re going to get from each other. It’s a question of execution. The Pats did and the Colts didn’t in the first half, and it could’ve been a landslide if not for the turnovers. Different officials could also have changed a lot of things. The Pats will get their D Linemen back, but the Colts will get Hayden too. The drops ought to be a fluke. It all evens out. In general I think both teams will step it up in the next match, and it’ll be equally exciting. Possibly closer the whole way instead of just at the end. I’ve had enough stress. A Cots blowout like in 05 would be much nicer. For me, anyway.
by willyduer on Nov 16, 2009 7:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
here is a way to scheme around Mathis
Take out Nick " I can’t block for shit" Kazcur and replace him with Matt Light!
by mathew.40 on Nov 17, 2009 2:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nice depiction of Kazcur
That was my thought too – leave Vollmer where he is, the new blind side beast, and move Light right.
Keep the faith!
by Marima on Nov 17, 2009 7:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i’ve never see him play so bad for the last 4 years. this year, i’ve seen him getting owned. lucky TB is getting rid of the ball faster than usually
by mathew.40 on Nov 17, 2009 1:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Guess what happened the last time the Colts beat us in this fashion?
‘06 Championship. Let’s win the next 18, including the big one.
by The Hill on Nov 16, 2009 1:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
the colts aren't gonna beat us unless we beat ourselves again...
plus who says manning isn’t gonna choke in the play off like a his yearly routine. (i’m kidding colts fans)
by lololol on Nov 16, 2009 1:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
lets not talk about choking right now ok
;)
As long as we have Peyton we will always have a chance to win.
by skywalker on Nov 16, 2009 1:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, the team will either grown closer from this or crumble
They were the better team for most of the game. They have to be furious at that collapse. Sunday can’t come soon enough to see how they bounce back. I am not scared of the Colts and I am not scared of facing them in Indy in the playoffs and I sure hope the Pats feel the same way.
by bbismyhero on Nov 16, 2009 1:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm guessing they'll pull together
It’s what they do
Keep the faith!
by Marima on Nov 16, 2009 2:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They haven't had back to back losses in forever. Jets are toast this week.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Nov 16, 2009 2:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah... poor Jets.
They are going to be on the wrong end of an EPIC beatdown next week.
by invisibulman on Nov 16, 2009 3:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
when the pats beat the bi-planes...
can the Hoodie wear his 5 SB rings on his right hand and shake the man whale’s hand??
by mathew.40 on Nov 17, 2009 2:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Christian Faurier pretty much said the same thing last night
He said to look for the Jets to get a solid beating Sunday, lol.
Keep the faith!
by Marima on Nov 17, 2009 7:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Heroic effort by your O Line, by the way
I’m not sure what post to put this under, but Vollmer played great, and Neal gutted through most of the game on one leg. Not sure if anyone brought that up in the broadcast or your comments, but he could barely walk and eventually had to come out.
It was kind of the opposite of the McGinest thing years ago. I was really impressed by him. And a lot of things about your team in the game, really.
by willyduer on Nov 16, 2009 2:23 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
good call
but i wish TB didn’t take that 2nd time out…..that was really bad spot. guess the eagles and pats have been fked by the zebras on sunday night football.
lets just hope we win out and hope Cincy looses to the Vikings and another team so we can get the 2nd AFC spot.
by mathew.40 on Nov 16, 2009 2:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I was hoping Bill was going to say this:
They are who we thought they were – and we let them off the hook!! hahaha soo funny
Eh – not like you’re not going to be winning the AFCE anyways – not really a big deal when you play in a division against a bunch of high school catholic girls (the bills would be middle school catholic girls)
Never put salt in your eyes
by J2 on Nov 16, 2009 3:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Great Post!!
You are absolutely right!! One call doesn’t lose a game like that one. The fumble is what I think lost it. Pats wouldn’t have had to go for it on 4th and 2. The dancing Elmo would’ve been benched. He lost yardage on his ensuing carries. Bill made the right call!!
Those of you who think you know everything just annoy those of us who do!!
by Sully F on Nov 16, 2009 3:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
should Brady have been benched
for throwing the pick in the endzone?
Despite his inability to fulfill expectations and pre-last-few-games history of dancing instead of pounding, Maroney has generally been sure handed, with very few fumbles.
At some point you have to give some credit to the Colts defense for causing Maroney to fumble and for picking off Brady. Either of those two plays could have iced the game, if the Patriots convert those TDs.
by mmmmm on Nov 16, 2009 5:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Belichek is a gambler with guts
That call showed he has faith in his offense – not that he doesn’t trust his D
Bill has a 78% success rate on 4th downs over the years
Risk-Reward Factor : Making it seals a win. Fail only means a shorter field for Colts, not a loss
Now with all that being said, if I were HC, I would have punted. 28 yard line just too deep for me. I would have gone for the 1st at the 40, but not the 28.
Bit hey, that’s part of why Belichek is the HC, and a very good one. He has the guts to make the tough gambles, and they usually work. The gamble did not work on this day, but that us not what’s important. Many people did not agree with his decision to make Brady no 1 over Bledsoe years ago either. He makes controversial moves that he believes are right, and takes the heat if the moves do not work.
by WarWolf on Nov 16, 2009 6:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'm not a huge fan of BB, mostly because of his exits after loosing game
but I am getting sick and tired of the media trashing him over this call. I have listened to ESPN radio all day and then I watched ESPN at work all day and I could not believe how out of context they are with what happened. You have freaking Tom Brady as your QB and you have 2 bad ass receivers…you have 2 yards to go to end the game…why the hell not go for it? It would make less sense to give arguably the best QB in football the ball back ANYWHERE on the field, because more times than not Manning is gonna find a way to score. And he hit a streak at the end which made it even more dangerous. I applaud BB for the call, and not because it led to a Colts win, but because it showed he had the balls to do it. All this talk about “loosing the trust of the defense” is garbage. Never in my life would I have thought I would be backing up the Pats, but here, I have to. Great game…no way around that. BB won some respect with me for that call.
Bob Sanders does not play Hide-and-Seek, He plays HIDE and PRAY-HE-DOES-NOT FIND-YOU!
by coltsfan723 on Nov 16, 2009 6:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yep
Bills got some golden balls alright.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Nov 16, 2009 6:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I refused to put on any sports talk radio today... or NFLN or ESPN
Interesting the standard of perfection the critics hold Belichick to. Absurd.
Belichick never came in saying he was the smartest coach in the NFL or ever insinuated that he knows everything. In fact, in the Parcells model, he prefers to surround himself with an intelligent staff – that he listens to – and consistently seeks out people’s opinions who he thinks know more about a particular situation than he does so he can learn.
This is the typical media M.O. build someone up (whether it’s a team, player or coach) just to have a big enough target to take pot-shots at and ultimately tear down at the slightest sign that they’re not the end-all be-all that the media made them out to be in the first place.
As an aside, while I was at the gym I passed a TV tuned to ESPN. In the sidebar showing what’s coming up I could have sworn it said “Patriots Love” and I thought, “wow, someone is going to take a sympathetic view here.” But upon looking closer it just said, “Patriots Live” instead. I chose a machine far away from that particular TV.
Keep the faith!
by Marima on Nov 16, 2009 6:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
Its kinda sad that even after coming back like that the media still refuses to give the Colts a little credit. I heard someone on NFLN say “I still don’t know why they didn’t challenge that call” (regarding the 4th and 2 gamble)….Ummm could it be because the Pats had no timeouts left? I mean really, if your gonna be an analyst, please at least pay attention to minor details regarding the game. Makes me wonder if all they watch are replays, Cause they had no clue what went on. And no one even corrected the gu for saying it.
Bob Sanders does not play Hide-and-Seek, He plays HIDE and PRAY-HE-DOES-NOT FIND-YOU!
by coltsfan723 on Nov 16, 2009 7:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The same analysts then massacre Donovan McNabb
for forgetting how many time-outs his team has used up. Hypocrisy? Wuts dat?
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 16, 2009 7:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'd prfer to get no credit, and no love as long as I got the W.
Pick your battles.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Nov 16, 2009 9:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The only mediots I heard that liked the call
were Greenberg and Cris Carter. And Carter got into it pretty hilariously later in the day with TJ and Keyshawn. It got a little uncivilized.
Oh, Gruden liked it too. He cited his experience with punting, back in the 2003 comeback. Didn’t work too well for him.
My award for the dumbest logic goes to Bruschi though, ranting about how they didn’t give the D the opportunity to go win the game, and that they deserved that. It wasn’t long ago that back in his day they had a team built around a physical, kick you in the teeth and beat the shit out of you, dominant defense. Back then, Belichick could’ve left them with 1st and goal to defend to start a drive and all Tedy would talk about is how much confidence they showed in them to go out and win the game. Which they DID in 2003, which also featured a 31-14 comeback.
Now obviously the D unit at the end of the game last night isn’t the 2003 group (in fact, is there even one guy left on it?) and no, he wasn’t that confident in them… but they still had a chance to win the game. It wasn’t an insignificant chance, even with Peyton there. They didn’t. Noone blames them, of course… but your logic is stupid, Tedy.
by willyduer on Nov 17, 2009 12:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, I was puzzled by Bruschi's comments
It was as if he was projecting how he would have felt on to the current defensive personnel. At least he should have looked at some film or reviewed the game tape, analyzing how the defense was doing before coming out with his public criticisms. In this instance, it wasn’t about “respecting” the defense’s feelings but in respecting what Manning’s capabilities are in these end-of-game situations.
And at the time, I didn’t take BBs call as a knock on the defense so much as confidence that his offense should be able to make a yard at any given time. Brady pretty much said the same thing.
Keep the faith!
by Marima on Nov 17, 2009 7:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The confidence in the D isn't the question
With the hurry up offense the Colts run, there is no time for substitution. The defense wears down and is tired. If we had fresh bodies, it might have been a different call. With a worn out defense (see how easily Addai ran?), I’d rather keep the ball in Brady’s hands. Which shows more confidence in the D? Asking them to hold them after you punt it with 70 yards to goal, or asking them to hold them with 29? Bruschi was wrong.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Nov 17, 2009 10:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I really hope...
That Belichick decides to prove a point and doesn’t punt the rest of the year except on like 4th and 12. And I hope it leads to a ton more points, as the numbers show, and I hope they win every game the rest of the way (until they play the Colts again). I didn’t like the excess passing/scoring in 07 or against the Titans (OK, I liked it a little against the Titans) but I wholeheartedly endorse the idea of a high scoring puntless offense.
It’d be a deliciously evil move and basically a big FU to the media. Again. But this time it’d be way more justified. Plus, I think this time around the football gods would smile on it. You’d probably also have Easterbook swooning enough to undo all his Evil/Karma bullshit from 07.
There’s really no downside. Never punt again.
by willyduer on Nov 17, 2009 12:46 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
it'd be interesting to see the playbook
knowing that you can essentially average 2.5 yds per play for a first, rather than 3.34, and see how that changed playcalling. Thought it would feel weird to applaud a run that didn’t even go for three yards!
by jctsai12 on Nov 17, 2009 1:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's just it. It was NEVER a statement to anyone
it was a recognition that Brady was more likely to get 2 yards than the defence was to stop Peyton Manning in a two minute drill. The likelihood of converting a 2 yard 4th down conversion is about 80%; I guess Belichick thought the likelihood of Manning scoring in a two minute drill was above 80%. Given Manning’s form in the fourth quarter and the way he marched down the field in the previous drive, that seems likely, so the 4th down conversion was the safer bet.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 17, 2009 1:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
Guys like Jack Del Rio make statements. Belichick plays to win. The very fact that he was willing to defy conventional wisdom, stand up and deflect all the blame onto himself, and would still make the same call next week is what makes him better than just about all the other coaches.
That said, de-activating Hanson next week would be a statement. And I think it’d be a great one to make.
a) you tell the Jets that basically 3rd down doesn’t matter, so the playbook is way more wide open, and this probably messes up some of their plans
b) you require fewer yards per down
c) you fuck with Rex Ryan’s head (though this could potentially really fire up their D)
d) you gain a spot on the 45 man for someone useful, which is key with all the injuries
e) statistically, you have a higher expected return and score more points
f) it’s basically a big FU to the media
Obviously removing the punter entirely is a bit extreme, but it’d really put a smile on my face if they did it.
by willyduer on Nov 17, 2009 1:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like your analysis
especially C. The Jets watched that game Sunday, and how Brady was firing down field to Moss without Moss even breaking stride, and they knew this team doesn’t resemble the Patriots from week 2 even slightly. Coincidentally, the Jets don’t look like the Jets from week 2 either.
Keep the faith!
by Marima on Nov 17, 2009 7:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
Belichick basically had three scenarios here: #1 Punt the ball, put it back in Peyton Manning’s hands with 2:00 left and lose the game. Whether he had to go 30 yards or 90, Peyton was going to put the ball in the end zone with 2:00 minutes left. #2 Go for it on 4th, make the first down and win the game. #3 Go for it on 4th, miss the first down and lose just as surely as if you had punted.
You do not want the ball in Peyton Manning’s hands with 2:00 left in the game and the potential to win no matter the field position. Especially when your defense is clearly gassed.
Belichick has been second guessed on this, and its an easy thing to do. But if the Pats make that first down (which arguably they did) Belichick is a genius. If they miss the first down, everyone is going to say “What an idiot, he should have punted!” But the truth is, it wouldn’t have made a difference. The only way to win that game was to prevent Peyton Manning from touching the ball again.
If there is something to be second guessed, it was the switch in offensive strategy toward running out the clock. I would have liked to see a little more aggressive play calling on offense on the last few possessions.
"If you know how to cheat, start now." - Earl Weaver
by rebop on Nov 17, 2009 10:50 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
If there such a thing as a "Prevent Offense"
the Patriots employed it from the half-way point of the fourth quarter. Had they been able to score a TD on the interception in stead of a FG would have made the difference, and then the offense was pretty much shut down.
Bruschi and Harrison have been pretty vocal about how disrespected they would have felt. The BIG thing they’re missing is that they’re not on the team anymore. The most veteran player was Wilfork with 6 years. Ty Warren and Jarvis Green were out. During the game the Patriots D also lost Tully Banta-Cain and his backup Rob Ninkovich.
Bruschi and Harrison need to step back and look at the team objectively AS IT WAS in that 4th quarter and learn not project their own emotions onto the team’s young players.
I’d say with a core of mostly 1-2 year players out there, who had already allowed Peyton Manning to drive down the field TWICE that quarter and score, and add to that Manning’s well-evidenced 4th down comeback prowess, Belichick wouldn’t have been too far off in displaying a lack of confidence in the D at all.
Keep the faith!
by Marima on Nov 17, 2009 11:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
aarrgghh... i need an edit button.
Apologize for the sloppy wording.
Keep the faith!
by Marima on Nov 17, 2009 11:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Totally agree...
and if the current Patriots defense felt disrespected by Belichick’s decision, they can feel free to play better in the future, especially in the fourth quarter. The defense had nothing left by that point in the game.
"If you know how to cheat, start now." - Earl Weaver
by rebop on Nov 18, 2009 1:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Brady calls out Tedy for his response.
Brady said that he disagrees with the media’s assessment that Belichick should have put the blame on his own shoulders in the coach’s postgame news conference, and also disputed former Patriot Tedy Bruschi’s assessment that Belichick’s call sent a message to the defense.
“The same thing happened in the AFC championship game in 2006,” Brady said. “We had a third-and-4 [at the New England 46], we missed it, we punted to them, and they went down the field in less than two minutes to score again. And Tedy was on that field that day. You can argue it a lot of ways. Had we punted the ball [on Sunday] and the [Colts] returned it to the 50-yard line, then what do you say?”
Short memory Bruschi?
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Nov 17, 2009 3:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Just how many concussions did this guy have?
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 17, 2009 9:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it was a good call
My husband and I aren’t Pats fans at all, but we watched some of the commentary and second-guessing and thought it was really over the top.
It was a good call; risky, but very reasonable. Few calls aren’t without risk, especially in a tight situation.
Our only guess is that the talking heads were trying to create some big drama, and then the furor became self-feeding. The pundits should feel embarrassed when they look back on this in a week.
May the wind be always at your back, and may your placekicker have icewater in his veins.
by juperee on Nov 17, 2009 7:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think the 4th down miss
will only be a learning experience for belichek. after all, if he got it not only would we have won, but he would most likely keep going for those situations in the future.
better to miss the 4th down deep in our territory in the regular season, then in the post season. Maybe now he knows that he can’t keep taking those risks.
by patriotguy on Nov 17, 2009 7:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
wasn’t there a similar play against the Falcons, 4 and 3 or something like that around the Pats 26 or 27 yard line and time running out?
by Ufanforreal on Nov 17, 2009 9:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
na...it was 4 & 1 in the 3rd qtr @ the pats 26 when the score was 16-10 to the Pats
by mathew.40 on Nov 18, 2009 12:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
so yeah
basically the same thing. and i guess belichek might of thought that if they could do it then, they could do it against the colts. which he was being reckless.
by patriotguy on Nov 18, 2009 7:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
except that it wasn't
being reckless.
Have you not been reading up above?
The odds for a win favored going for it, as he did. To have punted would have been taking a bigger chance (odds being less favorable). THAT would have been reckless.
What you are hoping for (from your posted words) is for Bellicheck to have learned to make decisions based on what the popular press or ‘conventional wisdom’ thinks instead of what is the best for the team. Excuse me if I think that would suck.
Just because the OUTCOME of a decision was bad once doesn’t mean the CHOICE to do that was wrong. Swinging at a fastball down the middle is the right choice (versus swinging at a curveball in the dirt) – but you still aren’t ALWAYS going to hit it square.
The only things Bellichek probably has ‘learned’ from this experience is that they probably should have had Faulk run 2 feet deeper on his route (with all the other WRs adjusted accordingly) and that the popular press if full of a bunch of second-guessing idiot bandwagoners. Oh wait – we already knew that last bit.
by mmmmm on Nov 18, 2009 11:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

by 
















