Ted Ginn: Not even the best receiver on his college team (but very, very fast)
Just to get it all out of the way up front: I know it's an amateur clipset and there's nothing scientific about it. But I'm going to ignore that and use it as one piece of evidence from a field of evidence that includes what I saw while watching Ginn on television in his college days and what I've seen of him (and his soon to be revealed former teammate) since they've entered the pros.
On that reel, there were 10 returns, 4 designed runs, and 8 pass plays. 36% of the time, what Ginn does best does not involve catching passes. That was true at the Old Horseshoe, and it has been true in the NFL. Yet he was drafted as and continues to be pushed as a wide receiver. But he has always been lazy in his route-running, and he's never been spectacularly sure-handed. It is his blazing speed (and it is eye-popping) that makes the personnel men drool, and continues to tantalize the Dolphin faithful.
Ginn's blinding speed had a tendency to overshadow a slower man, but one who was -- and is -- an overall more valuable football player. Granted, he's been playing under a better system in his professional life. But even at OSU, he was a better route-runner and a more reliable pass-catcher. Don't worry, patsfans. You'll have another chance to see him live this year, all too soon:
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Ginn blows as a reciever
If he has a defender anywhere near him he’ll run out of bounds. He averages 1 ft YAC. If he could be 20 yards from the nearest defender, and not drop the ball, he might be a legitimate threat. By the time he managed to get to the sidelines during the Jets game, he lucked out and had already beasted the Jets’s special teams, so he didn’t run out.
Head Weatherman/ Injury Specialist of the Phinsider.
Bender: Who wants dolphin? Leela: Dolphin? But dolphins are intelligent. Bender: Not this one. He blew all his money on instant lottery tickets.
by Farorefox on Nov 5, 2009 5:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Eternal mystery of the universe
How did Al Davis avoid selling the farm to draft this kid? He can’t catch, doesn’t like contact, has questionable dedication to his football craft, and is ridiculously quick. That sounds like the kind of guy Al Davis would purge his entire bank of draft picks for, Ricky Williams-style.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 5, 2009 5:49 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Funny. Accurate.
Sad.
As Mr. Sloan always says, there is no "I" in team, but there is an "I" in pie. And there's an "I" in meat pie. Anagram of meat is team... I don't know what he's talking about. --Shaun of the Dead
by JohnHannahRules on Nov 5, 2009 9:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And, ironically enough, he'd probably help the Raiders a lot in their current state
He’d get a lot of action in the kick return unit, and he’s a constant threat to either take one back, or at the very least get good yardage. That means he’d give the Raiders good field position, and every yard he got on a kick return is a yard that means Jamarcus Russell doesn’t get to touch the ball. And if worst comes to worst, when/if Russell throws a pick, it’s harder to get a pick 6 from 40 yards out than it is from 20 yards.
A great kick/punt returner and a good defence got the Bears to the Superbowl – the Raiders D isn’t all that bad, and if they had a few points to defend or decent field position to work with, they could actually win games. If they had points on the board, opposition teams might have to throw the ball near Nnamdi Asomugha, too. At the moment they can afford to treat his side of the field like a gigantic No Fly Zone and still win.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 6, 2009 5:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
meh he's better than Quinn
Of course in reterospect the correct pick was Pat Willis
Current Phinsider Feud Points: 23
Sparano: Joey Porter, What is best in life?
Porter: To crush The Jets, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of Mark Sanchez
by Patssuck456 on Nov 5, 2009 7:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Brian Hartline doesnt scare me.
He will be lucky to catch 50yds
Jack of all trades-Master of None.....
by Peter Chung on Nov 5, 2009 8:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Oh he was talking about ovverrated Anthony Kneeless Gonzalez. Reel scared of him too!
Jack of all trades-Master of None.....
by Peter Chung on Nov 5, 2009 8:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously, I agree with this.
I have a hunch Pey-pey does to, and I understand he’s a pretty good football player.
As Mr. Sloan always says, there is no "I" in team, but there is an "I" in pie. And there's an "I" in meat pie. Anagram of meat is team... I don't know what he's talking about. --Shaun of the Dead
by JohnHannahRules on Nov 5, 2009 9:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
When Anthony Gonzalez does something then I'll say hes decent, but he hasnt showed me anything
Jack of all trades-Master of None.....
by Peter Chung on Nov 5, 2009 11:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He was
the 3rd ranked WR in DVOA last year and the top ranked WR in DVOA the year before.
He is a stud, and it is amazing that Peyton is doing this well without him. He would be huge if he comes back before the Pats game. Sadly, there are rumors his injury is worse than initially thought, and knowing the Colts inability to control injuries, he might have his leg amputated at this point and they might not know.
EVH+DLR=BFFr........ God I Hope So!!
by dmstorm22 on Nov 6, 2009 1:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I began to wonder if Gonzalez is overrated
ever since Peyton Manning started lighting it up with Collie and Garcon. There’s been no drop in production, and if anything, there seem to have been a few less crucial drops – I distinctly remember a few drives stalling because they went through Gonzalez’s hands last year.
Again, it’s a reflection of just how good Manning is – he makes potentially average WRs better through his ability, nous and timing. I wonder if Gonzalez would disappear in a system with a lesser QB, much like Deion Branch and David Givens were shadows of their Pats selves in their new homes. More to the point, if Gonzalez was magically cured tomorrow, I wouldn’t bet on him dislodging Garcon and Collie in the lineup.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 6, 2009 5:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
mistaken
Collie has been amazing in the slot, but Garcon has been streaky to say the least, and has dropped quite a few balls – has catch rate is at only 50%.
Gonzo is starting the first week he is healthy on that right side, with Garcon still seeing time, but not starting.
by furrycolt on Nov 6, 2009 11:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, I've only seen a little of Garcon
but his stats looked pretty good – his YAC and average reception is very impressive. I guess that’s balanced out if he’s dropping a few, though, which doesn’t really make the published stat sheets.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 6, 2009 11:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Garcon was doing good for the first few games...
but he has started to get complacent, playing teams like the Rams, and hasn’t been showing much of an effort in games they have wrapped up. Unfortunately, it might have bled into tougher games like the San Fran one.
Head Weatherman/ Injury Specialist of the Phinsider.
Bender: Who wants dolphin? Leela: Dolphin? But dolphins are intelligent. Bender: Not this one. He blew all his money on instant lottery tickets.
by Farorefox on Nov 7, 2009 7:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I think he is benefiting from Wayne, Clark and Manning.
Intrestingly enough, I thought Wayne bennefited from Manning and Harrison.
Current Phinsider Feud Points: 23
Sparano: Joey Porter, What is best in life?
Porter: To crush The Jets, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of Mark Sanchez
by Patssuck456 on Nov 6, 2009 6:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Teddy ginn
I saw him play for 3 years @ The Ohio State University. its true…not the complete receiver but he was the best punt/ kick returner ever @ OSU.
this kid came to OSU as a defensive back, and Jim Tressel decided to try him out as a WR. He was phenomenal as freshman but it kinda went down after that.
his unofficial speed in a 40yrd is 4.16
by mathew.40 on Nov 5, 2009 8:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Hey let him do what he does best.
Brady is a reat QB,and JT is a great DE/LB.Ginn is finding his stride right now it can only go up hill for Ginn Jr from here.
by Tuna4Prez on Nov 5, 2009 8:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
Although the risk is that the take him down the Devin Hester path, and he goes from being a dynamic KR/PR into a mediocre WR and doesn’t play or loses his effectiveness in the return game.
Chicago got to the Superbowl on the back of a very solid defence and the phenemonal kick/punt return ability of Devin Hester. Since becoming a #1 WR, Hester has been average – under 1000 yards receiving, a few TDs – and his kick/punt return game disappeared. In fact, it was so mediocre he was stripped of the duties, and they were given to some other guy who promptly got into the Pro Bowl as a kick returner.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 5, 2009 8:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
but
he is good on a go route or a crossing route ( if teams use man coverage). i just wished he stayed another year @ Ohio State to improve on his skills.
by mathew.40 on Nov 5, 2009 9:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So are 50 other WRs around
But only two or three guys can return kicks like he can. I’d rather have a unique resource like a Devin Hester-type kick returner than a Devin Hester-like receiver and a mediocre returner.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 5, 2009 9:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hes a great receiver, but...
I if I was CHI I would make sure he does KR/PR duties not just PR duties. I dont understand this?
Jack of all trades-Master of None.....
by Peter Chung on Nov 5, 2009 11:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ginn was replaced as KR by Danieal Manning, the backup free safety
who promptly led the league in KR average – somewhere above 30 yards per return – and scored a KR touchdown.
However, Manning won the starting free safety gig for the 2009 season, and the KR duties went to rookie wide receiver Johnny Knox – who promptly took a KR to the house as well.
Chicago has the benefit of having three very capable kick returners, and the KR duties are being handled by the guy who isn’t a starter in other capacities – saving his body from getting slaughtered by gunners, I suppose.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 6, 2009 1:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Understand the obvious...
Reduce Hester role at PR then, all I have to say is look at Percy Harvin?
Jack of all trades-Master of None.....
by Peter Chung on Nov 6, 2009 11:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I know Hester's punt-return average dropped a *lot* when he became a starting WR, too
His punt return average was cut in half when he started taking reps on the offence. Considering he’s only so-so as a receiver, I’m not sure I’d personally want that tradeoff if I were a GM/Coach. I’d have him running back KRs and PRs and have him buried on the depth chart at WR, personally. Decent WRs are a far easier find than game-winning kick/punt returners.
The ‘Phins have Ginn buried on the depth chart as a receiver, too, but that’s not really through choice. If they hadn’t invested a top-10 first round pick on him, they’d probably be happy with him only returning kicks/punts.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 6, 2009 6:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hester is their #1
Hes a great WR I don’t get where you are getting your info from, but the only thing I would change is putting him in the slot more often and reversing his return duties. A good WR is hard to find in the NFL and so is a returner.
Jack of all trades-Master of None.....
by Peter Chung on Nov 6, 2009 6:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cutler needs to toss it his way more.
Head Weatherman/ Injury Specialist of the Phinsider.
Bender: Who wants dolphin? Leela: Dolphin? But dolphins are intelligent. Bender: Not this one. He blew all his money on instant lottery tickets.
by Farorefox on Nov 6, 2009 7:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He's a great athlete
I still don’t see him as a great all-round receiver, though. There are a bunch of guys around that are better all-round receivers – especially in terms of the basics of route-running, catching, adjustment, etc. Once it gets into his hands, he’s as deadly as anyone, but he’s still not a polished receiver. It’s no coincidence that Cutler’s favourite target is a guy he played with at college, who knows how to be a Cutler-type receiver – he knows all the things from college level that Hester missed out on because Hester was a defensive back.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 6, 2009 7:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
actually....
Hester has caught more balls than any receiver on the Bears! I guess you havent watched teams like the LIONS who have just one good WR who cant stay out of the way of danger. Calvin Johnson has the physical attributes to be the best WR in the league but doesnt know how to protect his body. I am on your side and have agreed with your blogs numerous times sans, but saying Hester is not a good receiver to me is crazy. I live in MI and get alot of NFC north games and seen him run excellent routes with some exception to his overall game and thats only because of his size.
Jack of all trades-Master of None.....
by Peter Chung on Nov 7, 2009 1:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't say he wasn't good - I said he wasn't great
He’s perfectly serviceable as a receiver. But so are many other guys. What he is absolutely mind-blowingly amazing at is returning kicks, and when he’s a primary receiver, his top talent set is being ignored.
Hester has 454 yards on the season and 3 TDs – fine numbers, but not mind-blowing. He’s 21st in the league in yardage – below Wes Welker and above Santana Moss – and he’s around 30th-equal for TDs, and again below Wes Welker’s 4 TDs. That’s all well and good, but his return game is stunted.
In particular – he hasn’t scored from a punt or kick return since 2007. In 2006 and 2007, he scored on 4 kickoff returns, and 7 punt returns. In 2008 and 2009, while he has been a primary receiver, he has scored on 0 kickoff returns, and 0 punt returns.
If anything else, just look at those numbers – he had a ridiculous 11 TDs on special teams, in two years. In two years as a primary receiver, he has 6 TDs, and none on special teams.
They’re neglecting his primary gift – his absolutely ridiculous ability to take back kicks and punts (11 TDs in two years! That’s insane) – in order to be a middle of the pack WR who has scored 6 TDs in two years as a starter.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 7, 2009 1:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thats something I can agree with you.
I never questioned his return game and often scratched my head as to why he cant break the big ones like he used to. I have seen him almost break PR’s a few times this year, but to me punts are so much harder to break. All I am saying is put him back at KR duties and reduce hiw WR role on 1st and 2nd down after a KR and just see what happens. Nice talking to someone who has a great insight to the NFL. Peace!
Jack of all trades-Master of None.....
by Peter Chung on Nov 7, 2009 11:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
wow
i hope the nfl does a minute of silence before the games start this weekend for the Ft. Hood killings.
by mathew.40 on Nov 5, 2009 10:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

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