Recap: The Big Easy...wasn't. Patriots fall to the Saints
by MaPatsFan on Dec 1, 2009 9:15 PM EST
in News/General
38 comments
New Orleans Saints Head Coach Sean Payton has talked about the respect he has for Bill Belichick. In particular, he mentions the '06 Pro Bowl when the 2 had a chance to spend time "kicking it old skool" on a fishing trip:
"Anytime you get to spend a week and really just try to get someone else’s thoughts and opinions, someone who has been as successful as Bill has been…" Payton said. "For me, as a young coach after my first year, there might just be three or four different scheduling questions or things that you might want to get a better grasp on. He’s a guy that I have a ton of respect for and I really enjoyed the time we had a chance to spend just that week."
Seems like Bill may have giving up a little too much info to the up and coming coach.
Let me get this out of the way: the New Orleans Saints are, more than likely, the best all around team in the NFL right now. They are not great at any one thing. However, and even more damaging to opponents, they are very good at everything. As Belichick is fond of saying, "all three phases of the game". I have no doubt that barring an epic failure during the NFCCG, the Saints will destroy whoever the AFCCG winner is.
I've been thinking about our 2 toughest road games, the Colts and the Saints (both in domes, btw. Coincedence? Hmm...). We were dominating the Colts for 2 quarters (nothing happened in the third quarter) and simply couldn't do anything against an Indy team who got super hot in the fourth quarter. We nearly pulled that game out. Against the Saints, there was no nearly pulling out anything. They put the pedal to the floor and never let up. If not for the fact that it was against my team, it was some darn good football to watch.
I will not take away anything from the talent of that team, but there were some serious "Fails" on the Patriots that need to be talked about:
- Offensive Line - Sean Payton decided to give us the run; he knew it wasn't that damaging so he figured let's hand them whatever meager ground game they can muster and watch out for the aerial assault. 3 and 4 man rushes were hammering away at the O line which meant Payton didn't have to put any safeties in the box. Keeping the DB's in the backfield helped to neutralize the passing attack.
- Tom Brady - Brady is not back. His accuracy, to put it mildly, sucked. Overthrowing receivers and 2 critical picks are not championship caliber quarterbacking. Tom, I'm your biggest fan but when you're tanking, I gotta read you the riot act. He looked confused at times and out of rhythm with his 2 biggest targets, which leads me to the next topic...
- Receivers - Not enough of them. The Saints effectively neutralized Wes Welker (6 for 32) and Randy Moss (3 for 67) while number 3 guy, Sam Aiken amassed the most with 7 for 90. There's not enough guys to make defenses nervous; neutralize the first 2 and it makes Brady jumpy. More weapons.
- Defensive Backfield - Defensive Coordinator Dean Pees may claim that youth wasn't the problem, but could you picture Rodney Harrison falling for the pump fakes and misdirection looks Drew Brees threw at our current backfield? They got torched on a number of occasions because they fell for Brees' trickery. The second issue is not realizing something Sean Payton did: the officiating crew was "letting the teams play" and were allowing all kinds of crap on receivers. Consequently, New Orleans' DB's beat the daylights out of our receivers and got away with it. Why didn't we do that? Instead, we played them too soft with too much of a cushion.
Structurally, we have a few glaring issues to resolve:
- The absolute gaffs on Joey Galloway and Greg Lewis really put us in a world of hurt. We didn't realize it at the time, but not having more targets for Brady has turned what could've been an F35 aerial assault into a strafing run by a glider. You can't expect Wes Welker and Randy Moss to do it all. Shut those 2 guys down and trouble is a brewin'.
- I've been complaining about this since the draft: we DO NOT have an effective pass rush. OLB Adalius Thomas is not the guy. Derrick Burgess, crowned as the guy, is not the guy. Generating consistent pressure on a quarterback is a key element in a strong and effective defense. Pressure a quarterback, ANY quarterback, and they have less time to do what they need to do.
I overestimated the Patriots' ability to win a big road game against an opponent they knew little about and underestimated an undefeated opponent based on their statistics. Sean Payton has said he modeled his team after the championship Patriots teams. Maybe we could learn a thing or 2 by peeking into the history books.
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It's okay...
…we only lost because Belichick wasn’t wearing a hoodie.
by Richard Hill on Dec 1, 2009 9:27 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
It's worse than that,
it’s the Invasion of the Hoodie Snatchers.
Anyone wearing a hoodie, beware. Beware.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 2, 2009 10:23 AM EST up reply actions
BB
whats w. the hug…the Hoodie never hugs anyone…except for for Josh MCD, Romeo and Eric Mangina (once i think in the playoff win against the jets…correct me if i’m wrong)
If you read the article up there
it seems Hoodie has a lot of respect for Payton and they hung out for a week prior to the Pro Bowl, when they were coaching the respective sides in ’06.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Shhhhhhhh...
Hoodie helping out his fellow man? Goes against his image as a cold, heartless, evil, vengeful troll. Don’t let the secret out.
Keep the faith!
Oh right.
I mean, he took Payton fishing and tried to drown the guy. Chyeah.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
i'll give some slack to the DB
because Derrick Burgess is a bum!!! TBC is good.
Nikovich needs to get more playing time over Burgess..he was good in the colts ga
But seriously...
…it was our defense’s coaching decisions which led to our defeat. We already knew that giving the receivers large cushions and not disrupting the timing doesn’t work against mediocre QBs (see: Orton, Kyle), never mind Hall of Fame QBs (see: Manning, Peyton- 4th Quarter). Why did we think it would work against the Saints? Our defensive strategy took us out of the game on its own.
At the beginning of the game, our offense looked like it had the ability to march down the field, run the clock and tire the defense. Then the Saints responded with 1-5 play drives. Had our defense been a little more aggressive, we may not have fallen behind so much, we might have been able to utilize Maroney more to wear down their defense and we might have forced them to respect the run and open the receivers down field. Unfortunately, we gave their receivers so much space that we couldn’t stop them, they scored at will and forced us to the air game and dictated the whole game.
Also, our O-line (which is completely injured, so this is more about health and not about skill…might have to do with age) prevented the passing game from developing as they ended plays before they even started. Our line was pushed around at will. I still think Moss and Welker have gas in the tank and they can produce with Edelman, Aiken and (hopefully) Tate. I think that’s a solid core for the next couple of years.
What we need:
Top notch DE to replace the vacancy left by Richard Seymour
Top notch OLB who can apply pressure on the QB
More O-Line health
I'm making a list, and checking it twice.
O-line – depth issues everywhere, quality issues at RT. Ohrnberger and Bussey will help next year, but they’ll basically be rookies. Need help next year – the older guys aren’t cutting it now, and I don’t see why you would expect them to do so next year.
Pass-rushing – there isn’t one. Whether that involves a top-flight DE or OLB or both or something, it’s clear the Pats need one. If guys like Brees and Manning aren’t scrambling for their lives, they will win. Simple as that.
WRs – Are Tate/Edelman/Aiken/Stanbach enough of a corps to sit behind Wes and Randy and be effective, taking pressure off the main two? If not, we need a new one.
TEs – I like Watson and Baker, but Watson’s at the end of his contract and Baker has disappeared a little due to injuries. Both TEs are nicked up, which suggests to me that maybe 2 TEs aren’t enough to run a Pats system. Irrespective of whether Watson re-signs, another TE might be necessary.
Secondary – after Hobbs and Wilhite, I’m now drawn to the idea of bigger CBs. Bodden is great, but it’s too easy to pick on the other guys around him if the opposition receivers get a free release, and there’s no guarantee the Pats will keep him anyway. I like the idea of getting a strong, big CB – even if it means using a first-rounder on the position. The Jets will still have Braylon Edwards next year, the Bills might have TO, the Colts have Wayne… all of which means it might be necessary to have a guy who can bump a big WR around.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
I don't really follow NCAAF...
…and I know the draft is a long way away, but does it look like there’s a big, first round-level talent CB?
by LegendaryTadpole on Dec 1, 2009 10:41 PM EST up reply actions
Big safeties, not as top CBs from what I know.
The best will probably still be available in the 2nd round.
by Richard Hill on Dec 1, 2009 10:50 PM EST up reply actions
Joe Haden
Current Phinsider Feud Points: 23
T.Lex doesn't want to be fed, he wants to hunt. Can't just suppress sixty five million years of gut instinct.
If we're gonna look into the past then..
We’ll see the Pat defense help win championships with a decent but not amazing offense. In 2007 we saw a change where the pats finally achieved a balance where their offense finally matched/surpassed the defense. The defense let up in the waning minutes of the SB, as we all know and then it really seemed like a huge slide for the Pats defense. Now the defense is just god awful against good teams. They are easily beaten and never consistent pressure. Offensively the Pats are prolly still better off then they were in the past. But we saw yesterday defense dictates the game. The pats defense let up early, forcing brady to throw a lot, and the saints where pretty much ready for that dropping everyone in coverage or use a zone blitz.The first drive worked well cuz there as balance and the offense was able to throw them off with runs and stuff.
As far as the pass rush goes
They were close on a couple of those long bombs. If the receivers had been delayed for a second coming off the line … who knows? I think the get off the line free card was the real culprit.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 1, 2009 10:09 PM EST reply actions
Indeed
Although I’m not sure Wilhite playing bump-and-run would be able to stop Devery Henderson (basically not going to happen), even forcing the wide receivers to get around the CBs in tight coverage is that extra half-second to turn a QB hit into a sack.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
How about Wilihite playing his requisite 10 yards back
then put Mayo on the line to “bump” him, after which Mayo charges toward the QB and Wilihite follows what is left of the receiver.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 2, 2009 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
Or add CB to Wilfork's blossoming resume
and after they scrape up bits of Mr Henderson…
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
One look and Henderson would signal time out.
“No freaking way!”, he screams, “No freaking way!”
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 2, 2009 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
The added bonus
is that it’d take so long for Henderson to get arouuuuuund Wilfork that a crippled sloth could sack Brees.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Crippled sloth?
See? I knew we’d find a use for Wilhite.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 2, 2009 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
To apologize, here's some trivia that is useful occasionally when playing scrabble
ai is a three toed sloth from South America
Sometimes shows up in crossword puzzles too.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 2, 2009 11:50 PM EST up reply actions
I'm still waiting on that O-line of Pandas
They’re 500lbs and have claws and are pretty much immovable.
Bonus: PETA would be protesting at all games against opposition D-lines. Win!
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Dec 2, 2009 11:53 PM EST up reply actions
I agree the coverage was WAY too soft
plain and simple, they were ridiculously NOT physical at the line and because of this they got totally burned in the open field.
I don’t understand how a Bellicheck backfield can play this soft like this. They were very physical just one week earlier, knocking Jets recievers all around. The DBs are skitzoid – they need a Rodney Harrison to keep the aggression at constant high level.
What’s the story with Shawn Springs? Why is he inactive again?
The Saints coverage, conversely, was extremely physical. THey were knocking both Moss & Welker and everybody else early and often and grabbing constantly down field. They knew this Ref crew was a ‘let ’em play’ crew and were not going to ease up until the Refs started throwing flags at them. The flags stayed in pockets so the Saints, smartly, kept it up.
They also smothered both Welker and Moss with constant double coverage by often dropping 7 or 8 into coverage and only rushing 3 or 4. Once they got a lead, they no longer had any fear of the Pats running game so they could afford to do that. Hey! That is supposed to be the Patriots’ game plan! Give it back, plz!
by mmmmm on Dec 1, 2009 10:31 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
It had more to do with the pressure
Brady is not back. His accuracy, to put it mildly, sucked. Overthrowing receivers and 2 critical picks are not championship caliber quarterbacking. Tom, I’m your biggest fan but when you’re tanking, I gotta read you the riot act. He looked confused at times and out of rhythm with his 2 biggest targets, which leads me to the next topic…
Brady always plays human once he gets hit a few times.
Current Phinsider Feud Points: 23
T.Lex doesn't want to be fed, he wants to hunt. Can't just suppress sixty five million years of gut instinct.
agreed
one both int Brady was clearly scrambling out of the pocket and throwing on the run. The two great passes he did make int he game where the zipped it into aiken and went long to moss, he had time and the pocket wasn’t immediately moving into him.
They paid for it
For years, the Pats have been fortunate in finding bargain talents to replace expensive but well-established veterans. Not this season anymore. Their luck ran out. Their gamble in rebuilding the defense finally has caught up with them.
The secondaries made more mistakes (missing tackles, missing assignmens, falling for pump fakes, etc.) in one game than the veterans would have made in a month. The backfield was so wide open that an entire MBTA train could have passed through.
The defend was torched so badly that they should be in the burn unit of some hospital checking for first degree burn. No wonder Bellichick did not have confident in this bunch in the Colt game. He knows what his hand better than anyone else.
Unless the D is shored up quickly, there won’t be any super bowl in New England this season.
At the very least, it'll be a learning experience...
even if that means they’ll have Belichick-sized boot-marks on their rears for the rest of the season. In a way it was good to get it out of the way, now, in a game that didn’t matter so much (non-conference, non-divisional), that it would be to get exposed in the playoffs. They have a lot of tape to figure out just how they were so bad, and improve. Falling for pump-fakes included, ugh.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
The Saints are on fire
Patriots fans have not seen their team lose in such a lopsided way in a long time. But take a look at what the Saints have done all year. With the exception of the game at St. Louis, no team has ever been close. Playing in the Superdome on Monday night also has special signfigance for the Saints as the first game they played in the Dome after it was fixed after Katrina was a Monday night game against Atlanta which was a huge event. So, the energy and atmosphere in the Dome make it a really tough place to play. And lastly, the Saints have been building a Championship team since 2006, they just lacked the Defense and Run game until now. Now that all the pieces are in place, they will be tough to beat. When your Quarterback is throwing for 5000 yards a season, your run game is averaging 5+ yards a game and your Defense is consistently getting turnovers, your going to win games. That’s what the old Patriots did. Sorry guys, we stole your model.
You and every other good team.
The league works off of copy what works. Congrats on the success and much luck with the rest of your season.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 3, 2009 10:32 PM EST up reply actions
Is that supposed to be a haiku?
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 3, 2009 11:51 PM EST up reply actions
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