The Pro (Popularity) Bowl voting silliness
by MaPatsFan on Dec 15, 2009 9:12 PM EST
in Opinion/Analysis
30 comments
It's a good thing NFL Pro Bowl participation isn't determined solely on the voting intelligence of fans. I consider "us" to be intelligent fans, but those other idiots... It's a good thing players and coaches make up the other two thirds. There are a few obvious ones, like Peyton Manning topping the list for AFC quarterbacks. Ok, I can go with that one. His team is having a stellar season so far. Vince Wilfork tops the list for defensive lineman which makes perfect sense. Hoodie has moved him around so much this year that it truly shows his value to the team. I certainly hope they pay the man.
Now let's get into a little silliness. In particular the guy in the picture at..wait for it...fifth. Sure, if you go by touchdowns Wes doesn't deliver. But that's not his job. Yards per game: 105.3, receptions: 105, receptions per game: 9.5. And he did all of this while MISSING 2 GAMES!! The other bit of silliness, I'm sorry to say, is to put Randy Moss ahead of Wes Welker. It's clear the voters are going for "sensational" - big yards and touchdowns. Andre Johnson deserves the number one spot; he's blowing up the field. For receivers, the list should be ordered as such: Andre Johnson, Wes Welker OR Reggie Wayne at 2nd or 3rd; I think a case could be made for either.
It'll be interesting to see where the coaches and players go with this. Hopefully they think about which players give them the most trouble on the field. Just who might that be, pray tell?
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No other WR is as important to his team.
As Mr. Sloan always says, there is no "I" in team, but there is an "I" in pie. And there's an "I" in meat pie. Anagram of meat is team... I don't know what he's talking about. --Shaun of the Dead
by JohnHannahRules on Dec 15, 2009 9:16 PM EST reply actions
I would argue for Andre Johnson...
…since Owen Daniels is out. Also maybe Reggie Wayne because he’s working with Rooks + Clark.
by Richard Hill on Dec 15, 2009 11:24 PM EST up reply actions
Manning would probably get away without Wayne
Clark’s his safety valve, after all, and Addai’s very good at catching underneath too. I suspect if Wayne was out the rooks would be decent downfield and Addai and Clark would move chains. It wouldn’t suffer too badly.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Dec 16, 2009 4:31 AM EST up reply actions
That'd be like asking us to function without Moss...
…if Welker was our only target, we’d have NO production.
by Richard Hill on Dec 16, 2009 9:28 AM EST up reply actions
if anyone deserves to be in the probowl this year, it's welker.
He’d be the only great matchup against asomugha, and thats saying something. Welker is an every down, hard as nails playmaker.
well
of course he wouldn’t be the ONLY great matchup against asomugha, but he’s one of the few.
This is what happens when crack is less expensive than NFL season passes.
Brady’s rated higher in terms of QBs than Welker is in terms of WRs. What le fungus?
Matt Light might be getting a Pro Bowl berth, and it’s arguable that he’s not even the best LT in the Patriots.
Troy Polamalu might be the best safety in the NFL (competing with Reed, Dawkins, and a couple of others) but he’s been injured for half the season. Same goes for Vinatieri – he’s been out for several games and hasn’t had to win any close ones; that’s been on Manning. Surely Pro Bowl spots ought to be in respect of the season to which they’re attached, not reputation? Gah. Idiot voters.
So many stupid things…
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Vinateri leads all AFC kicker w/o kick a Fg this season
O RLY? On a side note Moss’s votes come at no surprise since a week or two ago he was the NFL leader in yrds and second in TD’s, Ppl eat that stuff up. But Welker in a record setting pace for receptions and can reach 1.4k yrd while missing 2 games…so clue why the hell he is so low
Eh.......
Sorry but the only silliness i see is Brady somehow getting more votes than Phillip Rivers who has played far better and I say this as a Pats fan obviously- I think Rivers will get the start over both #12 and #18…..and Might Light?! what?! and we all know Wes is amazing, but its really no secret who gets most of the double and triple coverage on the team…but after last week with everyone taking note of his toughness, while calling out Moss, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Welker get the start
No problem
It’s all name recognition. Rivers has probably deserved a Pro Bowl nod at least twice already, but he gets stiffed because he’s from the wrong market, and Ladanian Tomlinson stole his thunder on occasion. It’s stupid – he definitely outplayed Brett Favre last year, yet Favre got into the AFC Pro Bowl squad despite blowing up and costing the Jets any chance of playoffs.
I doubt many Pats fans would/could explain why Matt Light’s in the running this year; I went over to the Colts site earlier and they can’t explain how their worst O-lineman, their guard, is getting a first-string Pro Bowl nod, and none of them are willing to guess why Adam Vinatieri is getting a nomination, given he’s been injured and ineffective.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Dec 16, 2009 4:37 AM EST up reply actions
It's the same as Lord Favrequat getting voted in last season
name recognition, that was it.
Keep the faith!
Unfortunately, the same thing happens in the political arena.
You’d think football fans would know better. Oh and that whole sham last year where nearly every Redskin player was chosen by the fans despite the whole team sucking.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 16, 2009 8:15 AM EST up reply actions
I can't believe I'm saying this.
…but Brady better not make the pro bowl. Not after what he’s done this year.
My Patriots pro bowlers…
Mankins, Welker, Wilfork…and I’d listen to any case for Ty Warren and Brandon Meriweather.
don't worry, i don't think your insane.
or are you?
he hasn’t been the brady we’re used to seeing, but he still is putting up slid numbers. just not as solid as manning or brees this year.
well, i understand your point
and i’ve been hard on Brady all year for making key mistakes. He’s clearly still working out the kinks.
But in the AFC, besides Manning, who would your choice for the Pro Bowl be?
I.E. sure, Manning should start. But who, among AFC QBs would you put behind him besides Brady?
Here are the AFC guys
First By QB Rating: (Tom is #4)
Philip Rivers SDG 103.7
Peyton Manning IND 98.9
Ben Roethlisberger PIT 98.2
Tom Brady NWE 95.4
Vince Young TEN 90.9
Kyle Orton DEN 88.9
Second by TD’s (Passing + Rushing) (Fewest INTs in case of a tie): (Tom is #2, but Rivers is 1 TD down with 4 fewer INTs, Matt Schaub is Tied for TD’s)
Peyton Manning TD 29+0 INT 14
Tom Brady NWE TD 23+1 INT 11
Matt Schaub HOU TD 24+0 INT 13
Philip Rivers SDG TD 22+1 INT 7
Carson Palmer CIN TD 17+3 INT 10
Ben Roethlisberger PIT TD 19+1 INT 11
Kyle Orton DEN TD 16+0 INT 8
Third by Completion Percentage: (Tom is #4 with Rivers just behind him) Though Peyton and Tom lead in attempts.
Matt Schaub HOU 68.5% 324/473
Ben Roethlisberger PIT 68.3% 273/400
Peyton Manning IND 68.1% 342/502
Tom Brady NWE 65.3% 320/490
Philip Rivers SDG 64.8% 263/406
Joe Flacco BAL 63.4% 270/426
Kyle Orton DEN 62.9% 258/410
Fourth by Yards per Game (Total yards on the left): (Tom is #2)
Peyton Manning IND 3905 300.4/G
Tom Brady NWE 3830 294.6/G
Matt Schaub HOU 3814 293.4/G
Ben Roethlisberger PIT 3346 278.8/G (Missed a game)
Philip Rivers SDG 3583 275.6/G
Joe Flacco BAL 3111 239.3/G
David Garrard JAC 2987 229.8/G
I would say Peyton is #1 this year, there’s a good argument for Tom at #2 QB, with both Rivers and Schaub in the running.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 16, 2009 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
It's funny to see Kyle Orton in the top 7 in three of the four categories.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 16, 2009 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think Orton has ever been 'bad'
MCD’s offense finally gives him a chance to be ‘good’.
I agree with your assessment – you can argue for any of TB, Rivers or Schaub as Manning’s backup this year. I might give the nudge to TB mainly because I think he’s responsible for a larger percentage of his team’s offense this year (not that I think that that has been a great thing necessarily for the team – it just is what it is). But I could see any of the those three going and they’d deserve it.
One thing the individual stats don't talk about is winning.
While I know it is a team sport, sometimes the pressure is on the QB and his arm.
The rank by wins is:
Peyton Manning
Phillip Rivers
Carson Palmer
Kyle Orton (Gets the nod since Denver beat us)
Tom Brady
Joe Flacco (Henne, Sanchez, and Garrard have the same record, but Flacco has better individual stats)
I think you could argue Schaub as having some better stats than Rivers, Rivers is leading his team to wins. This is where Tom has probably fallen short this season.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 16, 2009 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
Using wins
The trick with wins is you have to figure out some way to include the “quality” of the win. That is, if you beat up on the Titans, is that a candidate for a quality win? Sometimes a loss to a quality team rates higher than a win against a non-quality team. Of course, none of those stats matter when you look at divisional standings; win/loss record trumps all.
SoS is a bit too “historic” and doesn’t take into consideration the performance of the team in the CURRENT season. If we take a look at QB rankings on Football Outsiders, we get:
Using DYAR, it’s Brady, Brees, Manning, Rivers, Schaub
Using DVOA, it’s Rivers, Brees, Brady, Favre, Manning
Blogger at SBNation's Patriots blog, Pats Pulpit
So AFC Only
DYAR: Brady, Manning, Rivers, Schaub
DVOA: River, Brady, Manning
I’d think Manning as #1, and either Brady or Rivers as #2. I might give the nod to Rivers since he deserved it last year and Favre screwed him out of it. Anyway, that’s pretty much 1,2,3. Schaub is hampered by the success of his team.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 16, 2009 6:23 PM EST up reply actions
Rivers is winning close games with his arm, and Brady isn't.
So I’d have to go with Rivers, irrespective of him getting absolutely robbed last year (and he was). He deserves it on merit alone – he’s just playing very, very well.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Dec 16, 2009 7:54 PM EST up reply actions
if you use wins
your setting yourself to the QB that shall not be named(hint: he’s on the vikings).
I've always liked Orton
He’s just never been a top tier QB. Sometimes you’ve got to wonder whether it’s the cream rising to the top, or the sludge (Jamarcus Russell) sinking to the bottom.
A bit of both, I think.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 16, 2009 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know why it won't post where i want it to post.
i don’t think
he will ever get to russels level. that’s way too low. ;)
but seriously.
He's very reminiscent of early Tom Brady
Came in to replace an established cannon-armed potential liability? Check.
Made a name for himself as a level-headed, accurate, intelligent QB? Check.
Effectively marshalls his RBs and a mix of pass/run to move chains? Check.
Instantly won the respect and trust of his head coach? Check.
Most importantly – wins more often than not? Check.
Now, if he can make that step up and find the ability to throw deep balls as well (Tom wasn’t throwing many 50 yard bombs in 2001, after all)…
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Dec 16, 2009 7:50 PM EST up reply actions
Tom spent one whole off-season working on arm strength
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 16, 2009 11:07 PM EST up reply actions
That'd be a high-flying offence if he did
Josh McDaniels’ style offence and all that entails, plus a stronger-armed Orton, and a very strong rapport with a very effective WR in Marshall. I didn’t see the last Broncos’ game, but getting 20+ connections with a receiver like Marshall is ridiculous – that’s more touches than even Welker gets, by a guy who can outrun anyone if he gets an inch of room.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Dec 16, 2009 11:25 PM EST up reply actions
Jerod Mayo is the third AFC MLB in votes
and he probably deserves to be about that ranking – potential injury alternate. Ray Lewis will probably make it on reputation alone; Gary Brackett is outplaying him, yet Lewis has the votes to put him in the running. Ugh.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Dec 16, 2009 7:40 PM EST up reply actions
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