It annoys me how everyone's saying the Bills gifted us a win... …with their penalties. The vast majority of the yardage on the penalties were PI calls that prevented 2 TD passes. Instead of getting passing yards, we got penalty. Same result, different stat.
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MaPatsFan
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Go Hill !
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 21, 2009 5:50 PM EST reply actions
Damn straight!
The Bills’ entire strategy that game was, if you’re beat, commit the penalty. There’s a reason that they made PI a spot penalty in those situations.
USG
Penalties aren't a problem for them
Why else bring in the penalty king himself, Incognito?
Keep the faith!
I mean...
…it’s better to get the penalty and stop the TD because it gives you the chance for the goal line stand, so PIs are a strategy in themselves.
Hire OC.
Moss and Welker...
They should make sure they have their wallets still after those PIs. It wasn’t like they were tic-tac type calls either. Both Pats got completely mugged
Forget where I heard it
but one station insinuated that Welker was already falling and acted out the call. I saw the same play they did and still don’t see what they’re talking about.
Keep the faith!
and not to mention the play on Aiken down the sideline
in the 4th. He was so very clearly held by the defender and that one wasn’t called.
I guess it’s like in the NBA – gotta be a supastah to get the call …
I heard that on TV...
…“Looks like he was going down anyways” Yeah. Because the other guy tackled him.
Hire OC.
by Richard Hill on Dec 22, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
agreed
I’ve never understood when announcers say, “Oooh, that’s a bad penalty” on deep pass interference. Maybe in cases where the ball was not likely to be caught, sure, but otherwise, as a defender, why WOULDN’T you commit pass interference if you were going to get burned on a deep ball? At least you limit the damage to the yards gained at the spot, rather than any yards after the catch or even a possible score.
Now, it’d be something else entirely if the football penalties were like hockey ones, where the team plays shorthanded for the next few plays ;)
yeah, same reasoning behind 'giving' a foul in basketball.
Sometimes the penalty is the better, strategic option.
Keep them from getting two right away and hope they miss the 1 and 1.
I played fullback in soccer. If you use your hands (hands start at the shoulder) in the box, the other team gets a penalty kick (one on one shot with the keeper). If I was within armshot of the ball and it was going in the net for sure, I’d always hit it out of there. Stop the sure-fire goal, and tell the keeper, “Good luck”, on his save. In the end, I stopped more points than I gave up. As a soccer coach, I taught my fullbacks to do the same. Same result.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 22, 2009 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
true
but you got to be sure the catch is coming and wouldn’t be off the fingertips, and a cb that needs to draw one is a cb who just got beat, so they deserve blame either way.
But this is usually the case with holding penalties…protecting QB from injury is worth 10 yards.
"These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
Yep, the downside to deflecting the ball in soccer, is if it hits the net anyway.
Then they get a chance to double their points.
You definitely have to play it right. Good CB’s know where the ball is. Poor one’s just read the receiver, so a veteran can put the penalty if the ball isn’t quite there.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 22, 2009 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
Don't you also get a red card?
Happened in a tournament with my team in U-14 or something. Friend saw a ball almost go in, dove and swatted, we saved, we won and he couldn’t play the next game?
Hire OC.
by Richard Hill on Dec 22, 2009 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
that doesn't sound right
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a red card for a handball, even it is in front of the net.
Some leagues add their own rules.
Red cards are generally handed out for dangerous play. Intentional handling is either a direct free kick (outside the box) or a penalty kick (inside the box). I’ve never seen any other penalty.
In one league, the U-6 kids had some strange rules. No keepers, throw-ins for out-of-bounds past the goal line, stuff like that to simplify the game.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 22, 2009 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
It's also strange that a red card (ejection from the game without substitute)
would apply to the next game
Just found in Wikipedia:
Association football: A red card is shown by a referee to signify that a player has been sent off.2 A player who has been sent off is required to leave the field of play immediately and must take no further part in the game. The player who has been sent off cannot be replaced during the game; their team must continue the game with one player fewer. Only players, substitutes and substituted players may receive a red card. Law 12 of the Laws of the Game lists the categories of misconduct for which a player may be sent off. These are:
1.Serious foul play (a violent foul)
2.Violent conduct (any other act of violence)
3.Spitting at anyone
4.A deliberate handling offense to deny an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by any player other than a goalkeeper in his own penalty area
5.Committing an offence that denies an opponent an obvious goal-scoring opportunity (informally known as a professional foul)
6.Using offensive, insulting or abusive language or gestures
7.Receiving a second caution (yellow card) in one game
So it must be something they added. Oh well, I’m old.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 22, 2009 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
good find
I’ll bet that because of the "deliberate’ wording that this becomes a judgement call on the refs – hence may not get called all that often.
I know I’ve never seen it and I’ve definitely seen hands on balls in front of the goal many times. I’m pretty sure its always been a penalty kick – which would make sense if the refs by habit defer to ‘not deliberate’.
I made it look like an accident some times,
but I’ve intentionally caught the ball as well (set it on the ground and told the goalie “Good luck”). It was always a penalty kick.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 22, 2009 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
Looks like they changed some stuff (I quit playing competitively in the late 80's)
FIFA first instructed its referees to send off for a professional foul prior to the 1990 World Cup, and in 1991 the provision that a professional foul should be considered serious foul play was incorporated into the Laws as a Decision of the IFAB. The professional foul was made a red card offence in its own right in 1998.
Subsequently, the wording of Law 12 was changed and the term professional foul was replaced by denying an obvious goal-scoring opportunity to remove the implication that in order for a red card to be issued, such a foul had to be deliberate. Currently, if a player denies a player an obvious goalscoring opportunity by foul means, whether deliberate or not, he is sent off.1
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 22, 2009 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
Hah, not deliberate handling of the ball
to get a goal-scoring opportunity. That’s you, Thierre Henry.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Dec 22, 2009 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
remenber diego maradona in wc 86...the hand of God goal against England i believe
Oh come let's sing Ohio's praise,
And songs to Alma Mater raise,
While our hearts rebounding thrill,
With joy which death alone can still,
Summer's heat or winter's cold,
The seasons pass the years will roll,
Time and change will surely (truly) show,
How firm thy friendship... OHIO!!!
A very similar thing happened a month or so ago
Thierre Henry, the French striker, hauled back a ball that was going out of bounds with a deft deflection by his palm, dragged it back onto his foot, then passed into into the box, all in one movement. The pass ended up in the goalmouth and the French team scored a goal out of the scramble – thus knocking Ireland out of the running for a slot in the World Cup.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Dec 23, 2009 5:28 AM EST up reply actions
It was a tournament...
…and I’m pretty sure it was stoppage time, so that may have factored into the matter? Because if there was no penalty, players would be throwing penalties left and right in garbage time.
Hire OC.
by Richard Hill on Dec 22, 2009 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
Could be
That game evolves like any other.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 22, 2009 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
depends on the ref
Oh come let's sing Ohio's praise,
And songs to Alma Mater raise,
While our hearts rebounding thrill,
With joy which death alone can still,
Summer's heat or winter's cold,
The seasons pass the years will roll,
Time and change will surely (truly) show,
How firm thy friendship... OHIO!!!
depends on the ref
but yeah…its always a red card. if your the last man and u tackle the guy illegally to prevent a goal…its a red card
Oh come let's sing Ohio's praise,
And songs to Alma Mater raise,
While our hearts rebounding thrill,
With joy which death alone can still,
Summer's heat or winter's cold,
The seasons pass the years will roll,
Time and change will surely (truly) show,
How firm thy friendship... OHIO!!!
Yeah, it didn't use to be. I'm just old.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 22, 2009 8:56 PM EST up reply actions
i believe the rule was changed by FIFA in the late 90's.
Oh come let's sing Ohio's praise,
And songs to Alma Mater raise,
While our hearts rebounding thrill,
With joy which death alone can still,
Summer's heat or winter's cold,
The seasons pass the years will roll,
Time and change will surely (truly) show,
How firm thy friendship... OHIO!!!
u mean center backs?
when i played soccer ( played right back) we had left back, 2 center backs and a right backs along w. 4 midfielders and 2 strikers
Oh come let's sing Ohio's praise,
And songs to Alma Mater raise,
While our hearts rebounding thrill,
With joy which death alone can still,
Summer's heat or winter's cold,
The seasons pass the years will roll,
Time and change will surely (truly) show,
How firm thy friendship... OHIO!!!
No the older terminology and number
was Goalkeeper (keeper, goalie) 1
Fullback 2 – (defenders)
Halfback 3 – (midfielders)
Center 1 – middle offense (striker)
Wingers 2 – edge offense (crosser)
Inners 2 – set just behind the main offense to create passing triangles
The terminology changes with the times.
I hate the terminology “defender” in soccer. When you have the ball ALL eleven guys are on offense. When you don’t, ALL eleven guys are on defense. Calling some of them “defenders” implies the other guys aren’t.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 22, 2009 8:55 PM EST up reply actions
remember the sweeper position?
Oh come let's sing Ohio's praise,
And songs to Alma Mater raise,
While our hearts rebounding thrill,
With joy which death alone can still,
Summer's heat or winter's cold,
The seasons pass the years will roll,
Time and change will surely (truly) show,
How firm thy friendship... OHIO!!!
Yeah
Somewhat the same as the inners. Usually out of a 4-3-3.
I loved the old two man fullback. You had to be fast and very aggressive. The aim was to never give a guy a clean shot on goal. People had to pay to shoot on your goal.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 22, 2009 9:22 PM EST up reply actions
In a similar situation in rugby,
if the defending player commits a deliberate or reckless penalty that stops a play that would otherwise (in the eyes of the referee) be a scoring play, the referee has the option of awarding a penalty try. That’d cover situations where a guy gets tackled early when he’s about to receive a pass for a score or he’s hit illegally when he has the ball in hand and he’s about to score.
None of this “if I don’t take him out early, he’ll score, so I’ll nail him and see how good their Red Zone O is” stuff. Rugby refs just award the team the score as if the player wasn’t illegally impeded.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Dec 22, 2009 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
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