Colts fanbase up in arms...and rightfully so
by MaPatsFan on Dec 28, 2009 9:29 PM EST
in New England Patriots News
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PrintI rarely write about other teams on this blog unless, of course, it is regarding a matchup with that team. That goes without saying. But the ridiculousness displayed by the Indianapolis Colts coaching staff and management requires some space on this blog.
I should be happy. I should be jumping for joy that both the New Orleans Saints and the Indianapolis Colts have lost games in the regular season. The "precious jewel" that is a 16-0 regular season remains firmly ensconced in Foxboro, MA thank you very much. I should be happy, but I'm not. Now, I'm not the type that "hates" any team, even rivals like the Colts. I can't find it in me to despise something I watch on TV. Nor do I hate the fanbase. Sure, there's a few moronic cretans, but you can find your fair share in any fanbase.
I'm not happy because I've just witnessed a team at the top of their game derail themselves for some inexplicable reason. Yes, we can probably guess they were resting their starters for a run at the Super Bowl, but is that a wise thing to do? If Bill Polian is looking at the Patriots' 2007 season as a blueprint, thinking resting our starters would've meant a victory against the Giants, I think he's nuts. Tedy Bruschi summed it up best:
There aren't many times in your life when you have a chance to do something that has never been done before. When you are faced with a challenge like that, my feeling is that you embrace it and see if you've got what it takes to conquer it.
That's the way we felt in New England. And yes, we lost the Super Bowl, but let me be clear: We lost the Super Bowl because the New York Giants played better than we did that day. It was not because we were tired and needed more rest.
Belichick, the only other coach who can empathize with Jim Caldwell, was asked about the Colts essentially "throwing" the game by benching many of their starters:
While Belichick did not specifically address the Colts situation, he sided with the general notion that a team has the right, if not the duty, to choose what is best for itself regardless of the competitive balance in the rest of the league.
"Whatever we did in any other year was what we thought was the best thing to do," Belichick said. "We did what we thought was best. Whether anybody agrees with it or not, that’s what we did, and that’s what we continue to do.
Well ok, I get it. You do what you can for the team to be as successful as it can be. But Bill misses something very important here: US. We, the fans, invest a lot of emotion in our team, not to mention merchandise. We buy shirts, hats, NFL TV packages, Comcast RedZone, and most importantly, tickets. All of this goes towards these player's and coaches' salaries. I feel bad for the fans of the Colts and the emotional energy they've invested in this team, only to have that energy spit on by their favorite team. But I truly feel bad for the folks who were AT the game. If it was a blow out, I would agree with benching starters to insure their health. However, this was no blowout. It was essentially handing the game to our division rival. If I was a fan in that stadium, I'd be livid.
If Jon Bon Jovi came out during a break between sets and said, "Yeah, we're kind of tired, so instead of playing the rest of the show, we're going to have this Jon Bon Jovi tribute band finish up the show, ok?" I'd most likely throw something at him.
Colts head writer BigBlueShoe and his crew are doing their usual bang up job of covering this debacle at Stampede Blue.
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I'm either way with this
resting is not a bad thing. no negative thing about it. i think they should’ve tried to go 16-0, but now the team has to suck it up(harsh way to say it) and play for the superbowl. They can’t let the 16-0 thing stay in their head. I’ve been in this argument with my dad most of today, and it seems like this argument can go either way.
Thanks
As someone who spent money on two front row tickets for the Jets vs. Colts thanks… you hit the nail in the head. Without the fans the NFL and the team are nothing.
Also, I’m tired of hearing about how the fans were booing Painter. That’s what Peter King was wrote. The fans were booing a management decision.
Another Note
And although they didn’t have any major perceiveable injuries the Colts may have damaged the psyche of their 6th round draft pick. As a Purdue qb, like Orton and Brees, you’d think he’ll be able to overcome that potentially.
They have a bye week
That’s what makes me question their decision. They’re gonna get rest while their upcoming opponent is playing a tough playoff game. Do they really need to rest 3 weeks before their next meaningful game?
If there’s a team I’d be ok with breaking the Patriots’ records, it’s the Colts. When they broke the regular-season win streak, I was happy for them. If they had gone 19-0 this season, I’d be proud. It’s a well-run franchise for which I have enormous respect. I’m kinda sad they just threw away their opportunity for immortality.
Oh, if a man tried to take his time on earth, and prove before he died
What one man's life could be worth--oh, I wonder what would happen to this world.
by LegendaryTadpole on Dec 28, 2009 10:02 PM EST reply actions
I feel bad...
For all the other teams and fanbases that just got bumped out of the playoffs because the colts handed the game away. Those other teams and fanbases should be just as upset about this.
My son had Dallas Clark on his fantasy football team
and lost our league’s SB by 3 points Sunday. He’ll never draft a Colt again.
Keep the faith!
You know, the management may have been trying to avoid the pressure of 19-0
But now they just went and added additional pressure to this season. If the Colts do not win the SB this season then there will be chaos in Indy.
Its also not so much that they decided to rest the starters, but how they did it. If they wanted to rest the starters and avoid injury, why play Manning until the 3rd quarter and then yank him? Why not play him one series and then yank him, there is not need to put the fanbase through that. It looked like a forfeit, pure and simple.
Yep - Caldwell & Polian now have "SuperBowl or BUST!!"
stamped on their foreheads.
No pressure. LOL.
that was always their statement from week one
I’m not sure how many times I’ve essentially read the phrase anything less than a championship is a failure of a season.
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
yeah they tried to not have the pressure of an undefeated season, and look what happend now
its either superbowl or nothing, if we had gone undefeated and lost in the playoffs i wouldnt be as mad because at least we tried and didnt quit and if we didnt have the superbowl, at least we had the 16-0 record and other great achivments, hey pats fans can you teach our manager and caldwell how to grow some balls please,
"You only get intercepted when you don't know what your doing, I knew what I was Doing."
-Johnny Unitas-
"You're only as healthy as you feel."
-Travis Bickle-
~WE AIN'T GOT NO KILLER INSTINCT~
by 805 on Dec 29, 2009 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
That's making a decision based on fear instead of confidence and strength
And it rubs me the wrong way. Sure I didn’t want to see the Colts go undefeated, but I still wanted to see if they could do it – if they went all out like the Pats did in ‘07, could the Colts handle the pressure and the increased competition each week to go 19-0? It was both a revolting and compelling thought at the same time. There was no celebrating when the Jets ’beat’ them, it felt like a win by default and hugely disappointing.
I feel like they gave up and took the easier softer way. It sure makes me feel so much incredibly more proud of our 2007 Patriots. That 18 and 1 now stands for courage. At least they tried and gave it their best every game. I’ll take that with the SB loss over what the Colts management did to their players any time.
Keep the faith!
u know what's funny?
if the jets are in the playoffs nxt week, they play the Bengals twice (in the reg season and post season) and if they win the wildcard game, they play the Colts….and I’ll laugh my ass off if the jets beats the colts in the divisional round ( highly unlikely) b/c they let the jets into the playoffs.
Oh come let's sing Ohio's praise,
And songs to Alma Mater raise,
While our hearts rebounding thrill,
With joy which death alone can still,
Summer's heat or winter's cold,
The seasons pass the years will roll,
Time and change will surely (truly) show,
How firm thy friendship... OHIO!!!
i really hope that if we lose it happens in the hands of the jets i really do hope that if we are destined to lose then i say jets its your job
and then ill love to see how polian and caldwell will handled that situation, its gonna be the greatest time of my life watching those two fend for themselves
"You only get intercepted when you don't know what your doing, I knew what I was Doing."
-Johnny Unitas-
"You're only as healthy as you feel."
-Travis Bickle-
~WE AIN'T GOT NO KILLER INSTINCT~
by 805 on Dec 29, 2009 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
The Patriots didn't win the Super Bowl in 2007, but they did something no other team has done.
They won 16 regular season games.
It seems to me that you are either all in to win or you’re not. You can’t save your money and spend it. You can’t have your cake and eat it. You can’t play cautiously and play to win.
If the Colts lose their next game to the same bone-headed mistake, 4 weeks will have passed between a win and their next game. Not exactly a confidence booster. Not exactly something you build game timing off of. It just seems like they’re getting the perfect training for sitting out the rest of the post-season after a one and done. That was always Dungy’s trademark – except the one year he didn’t and they won a Super Bowl.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 29, 2009 1:46 AM EST reply actions
I'm going to put this here, as I'll get clobbered over at SB
there are two things wrong with this fans up in arms issue.
1. The feeling that the team owes the fans something. Everyone seems to believe that if a majority of the fan base wants something some way, the team has to abide by those sentiments. This isn’t so. The NFL is a business. What is better business for a team than winning the Super Bowl. The front office thought that by giving their starters plenty of time in the game but still protecting them in the end will get them to the Super Bowl. Thats a business decision that results will come in time. However, this widespread outrage that but we’re fans and we pay to see these games (I was one of those patrons this past Sunday) and therefore the team owes us something is ridiculous. The only thing the team owes fans is an attempt at the best final product, that is a Super Bowl.
2. The Colts and specifically Caldwell and the FO got gun shy when Addai came out of the guy with an injury. I don’t blame them. I would have done the same thing. The starters played 2/3 of the game. Are you going to tell me the Colts starters are worse off for not playing 20 minutes out of the week. Losing that 20 minutes is guaranteeing them a early playoff exit? I highly doubt it. The same scenario will probably occur next Sunday and I highly doubt that in 3 weeks the loss of 40 minutes of game speed football is going to take them out of their game.
3. The argument that the Colts rest starters and a la lose in the first round is false. The idea behind resting starters and relation to losing the first round has to do with a development of rust or falling out of sync. Thats simply untrue. Of the years they “rested their starters,” one was a loss because of a drunk kicker not being able to do his job, two were because of key injuries such as Dwight Freeney one year and Gary Brackett and a hobbled Mathis last year (which btw came down to a coin flip in OT). The other years saw the Colts winning first round games and losing to better teams, a la your Patriots. The counter example of 2006 is debunked as that was probably the worst offensive performances in the past Colts decade all through the playoffs. If anything the 2006 offense was out of sync for a month and the defense saved their asses. The fact is in the past 14 games where starters were rested after locking in their seeding saw them going 7-7 in those games. Meaning there is little to no difference in resting vs. playing starters to ride out the game.
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
Well.
To #1: You say the only thing the team owes fans is an attempt at the best final product. Wouldn’t a 19-0 season be a better final product then just a superbowl. And by sacrificing any possibility of a 19-0 season arent the colts not doing the very thing you say is the only thing they owe the fans?
To #2: The effect of long periods of rest on teams is so fluid and varies from team to team theres no sense arguing it from my end.
To #3: Once again there are examples on both sides of that arguement. For instance the experience gained for the giants in week 16 in 2007 against the patriots was credited by many of their players and staff as something that helped them beat us in the super bowl.
And honestly i think the whole, the team doesnt owe the fans arguement is ludicrous. The "business’ was originally made as a source of entertainment for the fans. The fans are the people who fund the business, and with out them, what the nfl does is not relevant.
by beantownboy171 on Dec 29, 2009 2:29 AM EST up reply actions
I would argue its the other way around
entertainment for the fans is a source of money for a business. No one started the NFL saying, “man we’re going to entertain the hell out of these people and if we make money great but I really want people to be entertained.” No someone saw a potential source of income and pursued that.
By protecting players and winning a Super Bowl potential for income explodes within the next year. By going for a 19-0 season you make how much more than 18-1 and winning a SB? That is most likely a difference not worth calculating. If you go for 19-0 and lose say, Peyton Manning in the 15th game and thus drop the 16th and 17th, how much does your income increase the next year?
Essentially it comes down to the risk of 19-0 is not worth the reward. If it happens, great! If it takes losing a game to guarantee a competitive team in game 17, 18, and 19 then by all means lose the game.
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
oh and I totally agree about the semantics of
resting vs. playing. There are plenty of examples both ways. I just thought I’d get the semantics rolling. :-)
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
Re: #1
On the surface I agree with you, but in Sunday’s particular game, the Colts faced a hard-charging team that had just had its playoff chances resurrected through an improbable combination of 4 (?) separate teams winning earlier in the day. They had announced openly that it was their plan to hit Manning as often as they could until the Colts second-guessed the decision to keep him in. And they had gotten in at least one cheap shot on Manning well after he threw the ball (I can’t believe it wasn’t called).
While I could have seen the nobility in going for it and losing in the process, I’m much happier that most of our starters came through unscathed.
How can you not love a team that does this?
eh...
Polian wanted the Colts to lose that game, deliberately. There is no other explanation for what took place. Lots of teams plan on taking out Manning – it’s the only surefire way to win – but no team could do it this year so far and the chances of the Jets taking him out were between slim and none. It’s a weak-ass excuse for throwing a game.
The Jets are a loudmouth group of blowhards, who have verbally threatened Brady with how badly they’re going to hit him and make him eat turf. The Patriots play the Jets twice a year – should they have been scared for his health, protective of his reconstructed knee and not played him because of a rival’s display of defensive testosterone? Somehow, I doubt Colts fans would have understood and respected that decision either.
Keep the faith!
also
I’m not certain of the details but the ultimate downfall of the 2007 Patriots was the hobbled offensive line. Did that occur or could that have been cured within the past few weeks of the regular season? My suspicions say yes but I don’t know for sure.
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
The team that beat them
Also played all 16 weeks of the season, and had to play an extra wild card game. I don’t think the rest was the issue.
by beantownboy171 on Dec 29, 2009 2:30 AM EST up reply actions
I think it had more to do with playing the Giants 3 times that year
1 Pre-Season – Blew them out
1 Regular Season – Very close win
1 Post-Season – Very close loss
The schemes they had on defense were different from what they had employed the first two games. It was a failure of McDaniels to adjust the playcalling (more tight-end sets for example) to keep Brady upright. They continued to use spread, and it didn’t work. McDaniels wasn’t a big fan of using tight-ends.
When we played Indy this year there were a number of schemes they used to help Vollmer keep Freeney away from Brady. They didn’t use any of those in the Super Bowl, but should have.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 29, 2009 8:46 AM EST up reply actions
In the end, though the Super Bowl was a defensive failure rather than an offensive one.
In getting beat by the lesser Manning, Asante Samuel dropped a drive ending interception.
Rest doesn’t help you catch.
On the helmet catch, Samuel had tight coverage on Tyree and let him go after Eli was in the grasp. That allowed him to be wide open for “the catch” (Harrison was on the other side of the field and ran in when he saw Tyree was open). Rest doesn’t keep you from blowing coverage.
On the final TD, they called blitz, leaving 5’ 9" Hobbs on an island with 6’ 5" Burress. Stupid play call. Rest doesn’t make your cornerback taller.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 29, 2009 9:07 AM EST up reply actions
nah
the defense was actually really good until that last drive.
Definitely had lots of chances to get more points on the board that were blown.
"These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
That's what I'm talking about
…until that last drive.
Sometimes your defense has to come up with a stop and they didn’t.
The offense didn’t get their traditional 30+ points in the game, and I’ll give you that. Another TD from the offense and the game is over. When it comes down to it, though all of the earlier errors (failures to stop the offense, failures to score, etc.) mean that there is less margin for error at the end. You suddenly have to play error free football: catching interceptions, completing coverages, making good calls.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 29, 2009 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
I really disagree with the thinking that it isn't a 60 minute game.
If the offense sucks for 60 minutes and the defense gives up a TD in the last two minutes and you lose 7-3, is it a defensive failure? No.
The defense overall did not lose that game. If the offense had been able to adjust to the interior rush of the Giants and get one more score on the board, or even to just sustain a couple of drives for longer, then that last drive by the Giants doesn’t happen or doesn’t matter.
Points scored in the last minutes of a ball game don’t count for any more than points scored in any other minutes of the ball game.
Of course, it would have been nice to have gotten a little quicker ‘in the grasp’ whistle when they had Manning (temporarily) wrapped up ….
I agree it is 60 minutes of football
Look at it as a chess game. Once you make the first move, the game is in motion. You lose your queen (probably a mistake), play continues and the margin for error is smaller. The mistakes at the end are only magnified because of the mistakes at the beginning.
My point is that the score at that point is 14-10. That is the reality at that point regardless of shoulda, woulda, coulda. What it takes to win, at that point, is a defensive stop. The offense isn’t on the field (they just got the lead), the defense is. They didn’t get the stop, and allowed the Giants to also burn up most of the remaining time.
It is 60 minutes of football, but you can’t replay the first quarter in the fourth. You deal with the situation at the time. My point was that, based on what had already happened in the game, the defense needed to get the stop and didn’t. That was all.
If the offense had gotten their normal 30+ points, the defense could have had the day off. That is a conditional statement. The offense didn’t perform, so the defense had to perform. In the end, they both fell short.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 29, 2009 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
but you can't 'blame the defense' for failing in 2 minutes of play
if the offense failed its job in the majority of the rest of the game.
Yes, both may have underperformed situationally, the game’s outcome is the measure of all 60 minutes of play.
In a small measure, things are going to happen based on pure luck. You can control / make your own luck over a larger period of play. Thus it is only really fair to measure either the defense or offense based on how they did for the whole game. And the ultimate measure is points.
How many points did the defense give up (that are attributable to the defense)?
How many points did the offense score?
Any other measures become too subjective and nuanced.
I think I have blamed both sides.
The part of the team that is on the field AT THE TIME is the part that is to blame AT THE TIME. Defense didn’t get the stop and AT THE TIME, that was the only way to win. Arguing about the offense that is not on the field AT THE TIME is moot. What do we need to do NOW. The defense can play brilliantly for 59 minutes, but if they fall apart in the last minute it still counts. That’s still 60 minutes.
I played soccer which is both offense and defense. The point is always what do you need to do NOW.
Points the defense gave up. 17 (they failed to get the stop to keep it at 10)
Points the offense scored. 14 (they put us ahead, but failed to get a final score to put us ahead again)
I am not letting the offense off the hook, but there have been plenty of games won with 14 or fewer points. Just not by the Pats in 2007.
I hang the loss as a whole on the whole team. Bill could have gone for a FG, the special teams could have blocked their field goal. The offense could have scored their usual 30 or so points. The defense could have come up with one lousy stop. I just broke down the defensive series as a way to illustrate that resting players wouldn’t have helped. In fact, if you want to look at the offense. The week off screwed up the O-line’s communication, and Brady’s timing. There I slammed the offense as well. Now I would like to quit rehashing Black Sunday.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 29, 2009 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 29, 2009 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
he also coulda gone for the field goal(instead he went for it on 4th down to get a TD, but got stopped).
that was pretty big(and stupid call).
I agree, we could have used those 3 points
But in the end, it would have come down to stopping a 2 point conversion. Then the defense would have to get a stop.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 29, 2009 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
wait
wasn’t it 7-3 to the pats when we decided no FG…i forget…i drank everclear to clear my sorrows and memories of that day
Oh come let's sing Ohio's praise,
And songs to Alma Mater raise,
While our hearts rebounding thrill,
With joy which death alone can still,
Summer's heat or winter's cold,
The seasons pass the years will roll,
Time and change will surely (truly) show,
How firm thy friendship... OHIO!!!
Here's the summary, click the link for more.
First Quarter:
5:06 0-3 Giants scored on Tynes 32 yard FG. (BEHIND)
Second Quarter:
15:00 7-3 Maroney 1 yard TD and Gostkowski PAT. (AHEAD)
Third Quarter:
6:49 7-3 Attempted 4th down conversion to Gaffney (this could have been a FG). (AHEAD)
Fourth Quarter:
11:10 7-10 Manning 5 yard pass to Tyree and Tynes PAT (BEHIND)
2:45 14-10 Brady 6 yard pass to Manning and Gostkowski PAT. (AHEAD)
0:39 14-17 Manning 13 yard pass to Burress and Tynes PAT (BEHIND)
GAME OVER
If we had been at 17 points at the end (getting the FG) then they likely would have gone for a two point conversion instead of the PAT.
Final score would be either 17-16 (win) or 17-18 (loss).
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 29, 2009 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
pats giants from the 07 reg season game will be shown on the nfl network on fri
Oh come let's sing Ohio's praise,
And songs to Alma Mater raise,
While our hearts rebounding thrill,
With joy which death alone can still,
Summer's heat or winter's cold,
The seasons pass the years will roll,
Time and change will surely (truly) show,
How firm thy friendship... OHIO!!!
Yeah, Justin Tuck and the other DL-with-the-long-name-i'm-too-lazy-too-look-up
but just tore up our interior line. It was very frustrating to watch. I’m still not entirely sure that Tuck wasn’t hopped up on something – I’ve never seen him play that jacked up before – but really we should have adjusted and changed blocking schemes to take them out of the game. I’d rather give up forcing them to play the extra man downfield and accept more edge blitzes than surrender the middle of the line like that because when they blew up the middle, that makes Brady have to throw on the move with no step up and it removed the ability to have Faulk run draw plays.
If we had just adjusted by snugging up a TE (or putting a TE in the back field) and forced the Giants to come from either side, those blitzes not only take longer, but you can more easily beat them with screens and draws.
Sigh … yet we were still so close …. sad now. Ok, I now have a little hate on for AJforAZ for making us remember all that …
and that now bills mlb player mitchell
Oh come let's sing Ohio's praise,
And songs to Alma Mater raise,
While our hearts rebounding thrill,
With joy which death alone can still,
Summer's heat or winter's cold,
The seasons pass the years will roll,
Time and change will surely (truly) show,
How firm thy friendship... OHIO!!!
That's another thing to wonder about
In the whole “you better rest starters or else” thing. Tuck? Backup, yet blew out everyone in the Superbowl. The other thing to consider? The hero of that catch, David Tyree? Also a backup.
Starters don’t necessarily win you games, and they don’t necessarily win you the Superbowl. Protecting them like precious little flowers at the expense of the entire team, the season’s momentum, and the rhythm of the offence and defence might not help. It’s an entire team effort, and the best way to get the entire team involved is for them to keep doing what they’ve been doing the entire season, and not mess around with the combinations when they matter most.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Dec 29, 2009 7:04 PM EST up reply actions
The Superbowl was one by the better team - that day
The Giants were a little bit better that day, and they had the luck needed on their final drive (combined with skill of course, but there was luck too).
It the Patriots managed their season wrong that year, the issue was not resting or playing in week 17 but peaking too early. Their truely dominant games were in the first ten weeks and they already started slowing down before playing the Giants in december.
by hythlodaeus on Dec 29, 2009 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
my take
I hate this for a few reasons.
It’s no fun for the fans. Sometimes going for total glory is the right decision. A 19-0 season would be worth so much more than another superbowl, in terms of income, in the long run. I hardly remember the Colts superbowl win, it wasn’t very exciting over the Bears. This one would have been epic for sure if they were undefeated. It was a chance for the Colts to truly smack us down and take the team of the decade title undisputed, and I’m a little offended they let up the gas.
Also, I believe not taking games seriously can lead to sloppy play, which can cause injuries or get an offense out of sync. What may have killed our 2007 season was the boring bye week before the superbowl. We had to wait forever to keep rolling and the adrenaline may have been gone.
Suffice to say that now all eyes are on the Colts to see if their strategy pays off, and coaches who want to appear smart will use the results for awhile, likely.
"These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I dunno, I can see both sides of the argument.
Me and the wife were talking about this last night. Neither of us are active Colts fans, but we don’t dislike them and respect them (she likes them a bit more since her team is in the NFC and doesn’t have to play them as often as the Phins do). I have to say that I think that this was the right decision to make. And let me explain my reasoning before you start saying that I’m only agreeing with it to preserve the ’72 Dolphins record.
First off, the goal of every NFL team at the beginning of every season is to win the Super Bowl. I don’t think that anyone would disagree with that. So I feel that the team should do everything it can to give itself the best chance to win the Super Bowl. You guys know how great going 16-0 was in ‘07, but did it really matter all that much when the Pats weren’t able to win the Super Bowl? I know it gives some bragging rights and personal accomplishment, but the point of the game is to win the Super Bowl, not to have a perfect regular season. Having a perfect regular season is great and all, but winning the Super Bowl should always come first.
On the risk of injury note, while I do agree with Caldwell’s decision to pull the starters to avoid injury, I think that if he was going to do that, he should have done it at the half instead of halfway through the 3rd. As Pats fans saw in week 1 last season, a freak injury can happen at any time. If the Colts kept the starters in and something happened, say Peyton Manning hurts his throwing arm and can’t play for the rest of the season. Caldwell would have been lynched by the fans for keeping Peyton in and putting him at risk. I see this as a lose-lose situation for him. I also wonder if fans would still be this upset if the coach was still Tony Dungy, who said on SNF that he would have sat his starters as well.
All that being said, I do understand the desire by both players and fans to see the team go for and accomplish an undefeated season. Only one team has done it before with a 16 game season, and only one team has done it all the way through the Super Bowl. Anyone who can do that would join a small and elite group. And as I mentioned before, it would give the team a personal accomplishment and some bragging rights.
It all comes down to weighing the risks and doing what you feel would give the best chance to win the Super Bowl. Some things can’t be compared fairly, the ‘72 Dolphins only had a 14 game regular season, which means they would have had less wear and tear on their bodies. The ’07 Patriots also had the benefit of knowing they had a first round bye, which meant that they would get an extra week’s rest no matter what.
All of these things are factors which can affect the decision of whether or not to rest the starters. And it is up to the coach to decide which of those factors carries the most weight to help him make his decision. Whether I would agree with Caldwell’s decision or not, I would still respect the decision because he did what he thought gave his team the best chance to win the Super Bowl.
"Why don't you put that in a memo and entitle it 'Shit I Already Know'!" - Sarge from Red vs. Blue
I can't brain today, I have the dumb.
28 "Phinsider Feud" Points
If resting the players guaranteed they had a better chance to win the Super Bowl, I would agree.
However, that isn’t a guarantee. There are plenty of examples that show playing to win and keeping momentum are the way to go. It’s basically a crap shoot. Will the players be more motivated or less now that they no longer have the shot at perfection? That’s probably the biggest question. Isn’t it interesting that it took so long for the Saints first loss, but not very long for their second?
Players (and coaches) have been injured on the sidelines as well. Players on the field get launched as far as the wall. If you want Peyton to be safe, send him to the locker room. They didn’t do that. There’s no penalty for taking his knee out on the sidelines, but there is in the game.
The coach can do whatever he wants to do. That’s his perogative. I get that. Was it in the best interest of the team? We’ll see.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 29, 2009 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
That is all true.
There are no guarantees in this game. And you are right, it’s basically a crapshoot. There are examples showing keeping momentum works, and examples that resting players works. It basically comes down to what works best for that team and those particular players, which the coach should (hopefully) know. If he doesn’t know that, there are more problems then just losing one game.
Very true, there is no way to fully protect a player out on the field except to keep them in a locked and padded room in the locker room. There’s always a risk to everyone out on the field, it’s lower for the people on the sidelines but still there. The trick is to find the balance that keeps them from getting too rested but minimizes the risk as best you can.
And you are absolutely right, we will have to wait until the postseason to see if his decision was the best for the team.
"Why don't you put that in a memo and entitle it 'Shit I Already Know'!" - Sarge from Red vs. Blue
I can't brain today, I have the dumb.
28 "Phinsider Feud" Points
by Chupathingy on Dec 29, 2009 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
Feeling sorry for the other teams
Feeling sorry for anyone in the NFL is dumb. If you win all of your games, you don’t have to worry about the other teams winning or losing. Am I pissed the colts through away a chance at a perfect season? Yes. Do I feel bad for the Steelers and anyone else that will now miss the playoffs? No, next time maybe the Steelers will beat the Browns. The Colts won all of their games that “mattered”, and the other teams did not. So that is kind of a moot point.
In the end, I don't think it matters other than its now 'noise'.
Here is the current ‘reality’ based on the Colt’s decision to throw the game:
- If the Colts go on to win the superbowl, it was the right decision because it rested the team and took the pressure off for next week.
- If the Colts go on to lose the superbowl, it was the wrong decision because it disrupted the team’s momentum / karma / whatever.
Now – lets flip into the parallel universe where the Colt’s didn’t throw the game:
- If the Colts go on to lose the superbowl, it was the wrong decision because it didn’t rest the team and kept the pressure on for next week.
- If the Colts go on to win the superbowl, it was the right decision because it maintained the team’s momentum / karma / whatever.
Its a complete crap shoot as to the final result and all you can argue about right now is whether the ‘noise’ it has created is good/bad. I can buy the argument that it is ‘bad noise’ because my general feeling is you are paid to play & perform and win for the fans and the spirit of competition is to do so for 60 minutes of every game. Hence I’ve always maintained there is no such thing as ‘running up the score’ in pro sports.
But I still won’t mind if the Patriots pull Brady midway through the 2nd period against Houston …
exactly
lets look at the scenario.
The Colts do go 16-0. Raise your hand if you believe the Colts were the favorite to make the SB out of the AFC.
I’m going to guess only about half of you did so. The Chargers and Patriots are both coming and they are coming hard. Forget Peyton Manning. Peyton isn’t getting hurt. That doesn’t happen. However, if the Colts go up against the Chargers or Patriots minus Charlie Johnson, Clint Session, Pierre Garcon and Robert Mathis its game over. If it wasn’t for having the greatest QB ever they wouldn’t stand a chance.
Everyone is focusing resting starters as protecting Manning. The more important guys to protect is his surrounding cast. A game without Reggie Wayne is a game most likely lost. Last Sunday’s game was about assuring that all of those guys are present on January 17 when they play their first meaningful game of the season. If such strategy forces you to pull your starters WITH A LEAD that the second stringers just so happen to piss away in an impressive fashion, then so be it.
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
Colts
Imagine a boxer going to his corner at the end of 9 and the corner saying ok kid your winning now its time to lay down you did great ……………… seems to me to hurt the integrity of the sport. My feeling is that the NFL should take notice of such things and punish those teams that weaken their team performance for other agenda. Sure its hard thing to prove but some things are very clear and when they are ,,,,,,, bam ,,,,,,,,, do something about it and make it more then just taking money from an owner how about a draft pick plus money of something serious so teams will refrain from playing in such poor fashion as to have a top team field a weak team . People pay and want to see quality games with the BEST team on the field thats what they pay for and thats what they should get injury of course is another matter.
you serious?
This year is a bad example due to the chaos that is the playoff race. In years past, however, there are multiple teams that rest starters or sit guys after a set time in the game.
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
This is getting boring, let's go for conspiracy theories.
1. Caldwell and/or Polian had money on the game for the Colts to lose. Forget what was best for the team, they did what was best for their wallets.
2. Caldwell was watching the Vikings soap opera where Childress wanted to pull Favre, but Favre wouldn’t come out of the game. He decided to show Manning who was boss.
3. Painter had photographs of Caldwell and/or Polian in compromising positions. He used them as leverage to force his way into the game. He’ll be the starter from here on out.
There’s gotta be more.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 29, 2009 12:37 PM EST reply actions
this has already been discussed. Painter knew Manning's secret identity.
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
Ok, this could be fun. Sorry for a long comment.
Roger Goodell was all set to hype up the Saints as the super Cinderella story of the year coming from so many down seasons to one of perfection. He’s made all these plans spent lots of time and effort to hype them the same way the Pats were hyped up in ‘07, then they lose. What to do now? He can’t put all that hype on the Colts, they are expected to do good every year, it won’t be as good of a story.
So he tells Polian and Caldwell to pull the starters in this game so they will lose to the Jets and there will be no undefeated team this year. He tells them that if they don’t comply, the refs will be against the Colts in the playoffs, and they will be eliminated from the postseason after setting a new NFL record of 50 penalties for 600 yards in one game. And that also Peyton will be found “guilty” of using PEDs and banned for life from the NFL.
I’m also betting that in a few weeks we will see a video that is leaked showing Roger Goodell taking off his mask to reveal that he actually is Buddy Ryan. After his secret is blown, Buddy reveals that the real Roger Goodell was eaten by Rex and this whole thing was truly a plot to get the Jets into the playoffs. It is known that the Jets didn’t have enough talent to get in on their own, so this plot was concocted to make sure that Rex’s statement at the beginning of the season of promising the Jets in the Super Bowl comes true. Rex also threatens that if any team beats them from here on out, he will eat one of their players.
As the Ryan Tyranny goes on, help comes from the most unlikeliest of sources: the Cleveland Browns. Rob Ryan, desperate to get out from under the stigma of douchebaggery that his father and brother have created, gathers together a group of superheroes with the secret identities of football players. First up is Tom Brady, whose super power is the ability to split himself into 2 seperate entities, The Golden Boy and Tom Terrific. Next up is Chad Henne, revealing that he is in fact a cyborg, truly earning his nickname of “The Robot”. Finally, there is Ben Roethlisberger. Big Ben earns his name with the ability to make himself 20 times larger and stronger, although his Geico caveman like features become more pronounced.
The Browns pull off an upset victory over the Jets, which makes Rex angry. He charges over to Joshua Cribbs and eats him, only to find out that Rob secretly put Eric Mangini in Cribbs’ uniform. Mangini gives Rex indigestion, temporarily immobilizing him. Rob takes this opportunity to unleash the superheroes upon the unsuspecting Jets. The Golden Boy lands, and turning his entire body into pure gold, enthralls them in his glorious beauty. While they stand staring in awe, Tom Terrific burns Mark Sanchez down with his laser eyes. The Robot proves the term “cannon arm” is literal in his case, and uses a laser cannon in his arm to destroy Bart Scott and Calvin Pace. Big Ben screams “Ben smash!!” and pounds the rest of them into dust.
Buddy comes to Rex’s aid with the New York Giants, who have been corrupted to evil from many years of playing in the same stadium as the Jets. The superheroes get help from the rest of the league too. The Giants get destroyed (preserving an even number of teams in the NFL), Buddy Ryan is crushed to death between Ray Lewis and Troy Polomalu, who put aside their team dislike for the greater good. Rex Ryan is beaten into submission by Big Ben using the Golden Boy as a club, then Chad Henne straps a missile to Rex’s back, and Big Ben and Tom Terrific throw him towards space, helped along by the propulsion of the missile, sending him hurtling through the void for all eternity.
That is what truly is going on.
"Why don't you put that in a memo and entitle it 'Shit I Already Know'!" - Sarge from Red vs. Blue
I can't brain today, I have the dumb.
28 "Phinsider Feud" Points
I understand.
I tried to keep it shorter, but was unsuccessful. I do think it is rather funny though if you get the chance to read it. =-)
"Why don't you put that in a memo and entitle it 'Shit I Already Know'!" - Sarge from Red vs. Blue
I can't brain today, I have the dumb.
28 "Phinsider Feud" Points
yeah I read it
its like a Dan Brown novel
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
It's an amateur fanpost on a football-related website
and thus far, far better written than anything put out by Mr. Brown.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Dec 29, 2009 7:12 PM EST up reply actions
LOL, thank you sir!
"Why don't you put that in a memo and entitle it 'Shit I Already Know'!" - Sarge from Red vs. Blue
I can't brain today, I have the dumb.
28 "Phinsider Feud" Points
For the first time, it all makes sense.
I suddenly grasp the bigger picture.
Thanks, Mr. Thingy
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 29, 2009 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
No problem good sir.
I just thought about it and that was obviously the most likely and logical conclusion.
"Why don't you put that in a memo and entitle it 'Shit I Already Know'!" - Sarge from Red vs. Blue
I can't brain today, I have the dumb.
28 "Phinsider Feud" Points
condensed version of same conspiracy
Goodell is former Jets official (true).
Blackmails / strong arms Colts into throwing game to get Jets in playoffs (conspiracy theory).
LOL
As you can tell, I had waaaayyyyy too much free time at work today.
"Why don't you put that in a memo and entitle it 'Shit I Already Know'!" - Sarge from Red vs. Blue
I can't brain today, I have the dumb.
28 "Phinsider Feud" Points
so...go choke on the eagles nxt sunday will u plz.
i hope its a repeat of last year’s ass whomping
Oh come let's sing Ohio's praise,
And songs to Alma Mater raise,
While our hearts rebounding thrill,
With joy which death alone can still,
Summer's heat or winter's cold,
The seasons pass the years will roll,
Time and change will surely (truly) show,
How firm thy friendship... OHIO!!!
So you're saying that the Dolphins perfect season (the only one) was built on cheating?
Well, the Dolphins were charged with tampering to get Shula and were fined a fifth round draft choice. I guess that’s cheating, so maybe you’re right.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 29, 2009 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
nevermind it being the 70's
and God knows what chemicals were flowing through their bodies
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
Only through the Steelers ....
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 29, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
Isn't that when this guy was playing?
So does that mean there are good steroids and bad steroids?
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 29, 2009 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
But couldn't they have been clean?
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 29, 2009 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
it was steriods and cocaine.....mecury morris
Oh come let's sing Ohio's praise,
And songs to Alma Mater raise,
While our hearts rebounding thrill,
With joy which death alone can still,
Summer's heat or winter's cold,
The seasons pass the years will roll,
Time and change will surely (truly) show,
How firm thy friendship... OHIO!!!
Oh yes, knowing the defensive signals of one team
really did a lot to help Randy Moss carve up everyone. That makes sense, because, you know, Randy really nees to know what the linebackers on the far side of the field are doing when he’s streaking down the field for another 50 yard TD. That makes it all clear now. Thanks.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Dec 29, 2009 7:14 PM EST up reply actions
i wish our front office had the balls that you guys had
"You only get intercepted when you don't know what your doing, I knew what I was Doing."
-Johnny Unitas-
"You're only as healthy as you feel."
-Travis Bickle-
~WE AIN'T GOT NO KILLER INSTINCT~
by 805 on Dec 29, 2009 5:20 PM EST reply actions
remember nice guys dont finish first...just get sloopy seconds or thirds.
media thinks the colts are nice and the pats evil….i like it that way….i love the hatred.
Oh come let's sing Ohio's praise,
And songs to Alma Mater raise,
While our hearts rebounding thrill,
With joy which death alone can still,
Summer's heat or winter's cold,
The seasons pass the years will roll,
Time and change will surely (truly) show,
How firm thy friendship... OHIO!!!
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