What About a Base 4-2-5 Defense for New England Patriots?
Bill Belichick never stops tinkering with game plans and schemes and is always willing to try new things so as not to become predictable and, therefore, beatable. This year he's already played a lot of 4-3 defense instead of the base 3-4 that he has taught (and modified) for years. Ever creative, Belichick adds new twists and variations such as the innovative defensive scheme he used in Super Bowl 39 versus the Eagles or the 4-2-5 alignment he has used in the past versus the Colts. But watching the first two preseason games and thinking about the current strengths and weaknesses of the defense, I wonder: what if he now made the exception into the rule, defensively speaking?
Think about the strengths of this defensive unit. The line is outstanding and a four man front would put Richard Seymour, Vince Wilfork, Ty Warren, and Jarvis Green on the field at the same time (with Mike Wright, Ron Brace, and Myron Pryor mixed in, too). The secondary seems much improved already though with still room for improvement. Think about a starting backfield of Leigh Bodden and Jonathan Wilhite at the corners, Brandon Meriweather and James Sanders at safety and Shawn Springs as the nickel back (with Pat Chung and Darius Butler subbing in).
This brings us to the only seeming weakness of this defense: linebacker. All this may change, of course, but Shawn Crable and Pierre Woods have failed to emerge, Tedy Bruschi may be nearing the end, and Paris Lenon may go the way of Victor Hobson last year (free agent signeee expected to help who got cut before the season opener).
Who would that leave at linebacker if the Pats played a 4-2-5? Why, Adalius Thomas and Jerod Mayo, that's who. Those are two very impressive 'backers with athetic ability, versatility, big play potential, and great talent. They could drop back into coverage, rush the passer, provide run support, and form a powerful middle line of an aggressive new defense. They are clearly head and shoulders above the other linebackers and could be used in all kinds of effective ways if teamed with the d-linemen and d-backs the Patriots have.
Specific assignments and responsibilities could be handled any number of ways out of this defense and the Pats could show different looks out of it from week to week--or from quarter to quarter if they wanted to. On third downs, it could be tweaked to bring in Derrick Burgess and/or Tully Banta-Cain as edge rushers.
But the most attractive thing about using the 4-2-5 as the base defense is that, arguably, it might allow New England to put its 11 best defenders on the field at the same time.
Otherwise, a more conventional 3-4 or 4-3 might keep some of those best players on the bench and use up one or two starting lineup slots with possibly subpar players. This would leave exposed weaknesses that good teams would find a way to exploit, particularly when it counted most.
Will the Patriots use the 4-2-5 regularly this year? It seems like it could be very effective and would fit the personnel nicely. Would it work? I wonder what others here think of the idea.
The views expressed in these FanPosts are not necessarily those of the writers or SBNation.
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wouldnt suprise me one bit
With the additions and losses of personal.. It would make sense.. I would have to agree that it would play to the strengths of the team right now.. They also got the players to change up also.. It would be interesting if BB does this.. But i guess we will have to wait and see!
by whizzkydd on Aug 23, 2009 10:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
id like to see that
but they can really mix things up with AT playing CB as BB said he has
by Patsfan4life on Aug 24, 2009 12:07 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The base 4 linemen could change based on down and distance
I like the idea of Wilfork AND Brace in on running downs, stopping up the middle.
The 5 DB’s could change as well. A combo LB/SS like Tank Williams (who probably won’t make the cut), or a run support SS like Meriweather could essentially be another Linebacker if the role called for it.
Drop Mayo in the Sam slot, Burgess, or Thomas rushing from the Will, with Meriweather up the Mike in run support behind Wilfork and Brace.
You can put Mayo in the Mike, Adalius or Burgess rushing in the Sam, and Meriweather either covering the slot guy on the weak side, or rushing the passer (the QB doesn’t know which).
It gives you some of the rushing flexibility of the 3-4.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Aug 24, 2009 10:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
it's the flexibility that's key
Being able to disguise what we’re doing and the versatility of our players to pull it off. That will be exciting to see put into action.
Keep the faith!
by Marima on Aug 24, 2009 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
I think a 4-2-5 gives the Patriots the most versatile and flexible scheme with the most versatile and flexible players on the field executing that scheme. As SlotMachinePlayer noted, the possibilities are almost endless for where these guys play within that alignment and what their roles will be. And the best thing about it, I think, is that it gives New England the possibility of putting its best 11 guys on the field at the same time without any obvious weak links.
by ProfessorTodd on Aug 24, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Defense is set to drive offenses crazy
I agree that a 4-2-5 could be a great look for the Pats this year, specially on passing downs and as an answer to the wildcat type formations.
Though as a set D I think the Pats will say they are a 3-4, for whatever that means.
There actual D’s may end up being match-up D’s, to borrow some hoop terminology.
Depending on the offense they face, Colts, Saints, etc – the 4-2-5 could get more looks, vs. the stillers the 3-4 should be played on a higher % of downs, etc.
Assuming they stay healthy the only D they shouldn’t really run is a 4-6 or 4-4, which doesn’t really make sense in today’s NFL anyway
by JonnyNYC on Aug 24, 2009 12:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Even the 0-4-7 on a down
Causes huge amounts of confusion. The defensive backfield is flooded. There are no down linemen to assign blockers to. You might assign blockers to the LBs, but they might not even rush. You’re just as likely to get a CB blitz, as an LB rush.
Outside CB blitz, line jumps to defend against the speedsters. Line splits, Mayo blitzes up the middle and creams the QB.
It’d be great against a spread, no RB, set.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Aug 24, 2009 2:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree with JohnnyNYC...
4-2-5 works well against teams like the Colts and Saints because of their strong pass and comparatively weak run offense. As a base D you’re going to run into serious problems defending a stout running/ short pass offense when you play teams like Baltimore, Jax, Tennessee, etc.
"Flying blind on a rocket cycle?" -Vultan, from the movie "Flash Gordon", for no particular reason...
by peytonsurdaddy on Aug 24, 2009 4:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Right, Nickel defense is usually used against the run.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Aug 24, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mean pass, right?
"Flying blind on a rocket cycle?" -Vultan, from the movie "Flash Gordon", for no particular reason...
by peytonsurdaddy on Aug 24, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I mean isn't instead of is
oops
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Aug 24, 2009 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except the Wildcat
which I view as a running formation. In that case having the D in nickel provides more speed to get to the edges and still clogs the middle.
I’d be pretty shocked if the Wildcat is productive this year, like the option plays NFL team defenses are too fast across the board for it to work consistently once there is game film on it and planning against it.
I digress…
by JonnyNYC on Aug 25, 2009 10:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The wildcat is a spread offense
So technically it has more passing targets, with the threat of the run. With Ronnie Brown as your “RB/QB”, it is definitely more of a run threat than a pass threat. You can usually stop them with a good old pass rush. The RB’s aren’t as used to that.
With Michael Vick as your “QB/RB”, both options are equally lethal. That is the natural evolution of the Wildcat: having a true passer, who can run. With the Eagles having Vick, Miami having Pat White, and us having Edelman, I don’t think the concept is dead (they’ve been using versions of it for at least 25 years). I think having your main QB as a receiver will die, because that’s not a real threat against most NFL cornerbacks (especially with a RB tossing the ball).
I agree that last year’s Wildcat will be mostly ineffective, but the spin-offs (especially some of the things you can do out of a standard looking set) have the potential to be very productive when used in moderation.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Aug 25, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
I always thought Atlanta with Vick was some thought of full-time wildcat offense. Which also says a lot about it’s strengths and weaknesses.
by hythlodaeus on Aug 26, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just read this.
The Miami Dolphins are doing a good job of keeping it under wraps right now, but rookie QB Pat White(notes) won’t just be running some "Wildcat" plays. Look for the Dolphins to run some spread-option stuff with him as well. …
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Aug 25, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
4-2-5
Nice post ProfessorTodd. I think the 4-2-5 can be quite viable in certain situations.
One concept from your post jumped out at me – and that is the concept of the “best 11.”
“Best 11” is a subjective thing, but I wonder if it is possible to look back historically, to see the effect of “best 11.” I see it as a study of sorts whereby a group of knowledgeable football folks (this would exclude me!) would create a list of the 11 best defensive players on a given team with the focus being on production and not position. Then historically go back and view results from when those 11 were on the field together (if applicable). I think there would need to be groupings (DL, LB and DB) involved and a control group for results. Of course a “best 11” cannot all be strong safeties – but there could be a happy medium of balance between positional groupings.
I am sure the easy response is that all teams already put out their “best 11” any given sunday and that there is no logical way to normalize for specific situations (short yardage, 3rd and long, etc). But the concept seems intriguing in an attempt to maximize productivity.
I am sure The Genius has already thought of the concept and dismissed it like 20 years ago – but I think you might be on to something Professor. Just know that my opinion and 2 dimes will get you 20 cents!
by McGarry on Aug 25, 2009 1:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Match ups are still key
I could see the Patriots frequently using a 4-2-5 defensive scheme, and at least for right now, it looks quite likely that they could use a 4-3-4, 3-3-6, as well as their traditional 3-4-3 configuration, but I think you are right, this year, fielding four linebackers is likely to happen less frequently than we’ve seen in some time, simply because of the skill set of the existing players. 4-3-4, 4-2-5, and 3-3-6 are more likely combinations that we will see more frequently, based on what I have seen so far this year.
by masinick on Aug 31, 2009 1:12 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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