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Who will stay and who will go? A look at the Patriots roster

After a disappointing end to the 2009 season, the Patriots are left with what ifs and what should've beens instead of preparing for a matchup with San Diego.  As you've seen in the MSM over the last few days, everything from Belichick's overloaded to hire an OC has been floated as possible causes for the 33-14 dismantling by the Baltimore Ravens, a microcosm of the season as a whole.  We all kept praying, homerism fully in tact thank you, that some old mojo would work its way back into this franchise and they would rise to the occasion, just like the old days, but it wasn't meant to be.  This team was too fractured, there were too many holes to be filled.  Like death by a thousand BBs (the small, round pieces of metal shot from a gun, not Bill Belichick), there were too many places needing tending.

The players whose contracts expired in 2009 are:

Name  Signed Thru  Salary  Prorated signing bonus amortization
Kevin Faulk  2009 $2,900,000 $497,000
Jarvis Green  2009 $2,500,000 $600,000
Stephen Neal  2009 $2,500,000 $800,000
Vince Wilfork  2009 $2,200,000 $633,332
Leigh Bodden  2009 $2,250.00   
Logan Mankins  2009 $1,400,000 $800,000
Derrick Burgess  2009 $2,000,000   
Joey Galloway (Released)  2009 $1,150,000 $600,000
Pierre Woods  2009 $1,545,000   
Ben Watson  2009 $910,000 $526,666
Stephen Gostkowski  2009 $1,010,000 $106,250
Junior Seau  2009 $1,145,000   
Chris Hanson  2009 $745,000 $50,000
Gary Guyton  2009 $385,000 $6,000

Star-divide

I've highlighted the players I think MUST be retained and italicized the ones I'm on the fence about.  Logan Mankins and Stephen Neal are, in my opinion, expendable.  However, I don't think Hoodie can, nor will he, gut his offensive line.  As questionable as I think their performances have been this year, they could fill a spot as a warm body.

Chris Hanson?  There's punters everywhere and I don't think his performance has been all that stellar; at least, it's not making me stand up and shout.  Derrick Burgess?  When was the last time you heard, "What a sack by Burgess!!  He's unbelieveable!"  Brought on to be our sack king, he's been anything but; Tully Banta-Cain is the guy I'd hang onto.

Kevin Faulk is, well, Kevin Faulk.  Sure, he's pushing 34 but how many more veteran leaders is this organization going to jetison?  I say hang onto him.  As far as Jarvis Green, we need all the experienced defensive linemen we can get, especially after Richard Seymour was sent to the hell known as the Oakland Raiders.

Leigh Bodden has, in my opinion, distinguished himself as a necessary cog in the 2010 Patriots plans.  Shawn Springs has not impressed me and our rookies (Darius Butler, Terrence Wheatley, Jonathan Wilhite) need a vet to keep things in line.  Big Benjamin Watson has shown he has the stuff to pull Tom Brady out of a jam.  And with the receiving corp thinning, I hope Kraft and company looks to Watson to, dare I say it, adopt a Colts-like Dallas Clark role.

Stephen Gostkowski is a guy we need to hang onto as well.  Maybe his numbers weren't as stellar as last season's, but he's got experience in the system (like that matters for kickers ;-)) and he's quite simply a darn good kicker.  Pay the man, please.  Gary Guyton?  He showed his mettle when starter Jerod Mayo was knocked out of commission in our MNF against the Bills.  We always need journeymen linebackers and Gary is one of those guys.

I've saved the best for last: the big man, Vince Wilfork.  Myron Pryor did an admirable job of subbing for the injured Wilfork, but those are some big shoes to fill.  Vince is considered one of the best 3-4 nose tackles in the business and he's even MORE valuable considering he can take on a skill defensive tackle role and move around the line.  PAY.THE.MAN!!  He's already said he doesn't want Albert money, so my guess is he's looking for long term.  Kraft and Hoodie are notorious for not paying and tossing out talent because of a few million.

Hindsight's 20/20 and all the prognosticators will tell you the shine has left the organization, the mystique is gone.  Maybe it's simply taken a hiatus and needs a bit of a retooling.  An OC, some vets, and some top dollar rookies may just do the trick.

Who's your magic list of people to re-sign?  Are there any FA's out there you'd be willing to pay for?  How about some up-and-coming rookies?

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Wilfork has to be top priority

I’d offer him 5/$35M, and I’d be willing to negotiate up to $40M.

Bodden is next — someone will offer him $6M/year, but I’d bet he’d stay here if the Pats give him a competitive offer.

Then Green and Faulk. Green is pretty highly paid for a guy who really ought to be a backup, and Faulk needs to take a pay cut, but I’d love to have them both back.

Mankins will be back — he’s restricted — but I hope the Pats don’t wait for someone else to make him an offer first.

Guyton and Gostkowski are both due for decent raises but should be back.

I wouldn’t mind having Woods back, but he’d better not want a raise. And Watson can come back as long as he doesn’t expect to get paid like a top TE — he’s decent enough, but far from elite.

The rest of them can go.

by RSNexile on Jan 12, 2010 6:41 PM EST reply actions  

2010 is going to be quite a year.

Wilfork is a must. AND someone he can train up (is that Myron?).
Bodden- solid CB, I like him. He works hard, has earned a spot and a decent contract.
Faulk- We need his heart & dependability. That guy will lay it all out. The example the youngins’ need.
Gostowski- heck of a kicker but not top money. Want him back.
Watson- KEEPER

i don’t really follow the draft all that much but I keep seeing this kids name as someone who would be a good fit with the Pats.

Jerry Hughes, OLB, Texas Christian, 6-2, 248: He led the nation last year with 15 sacks, while placing in the top 10 with 19½ tackles for loss and six forced fumbles.

by mellyh on Jan 12, 2010 6:51 PM EST reply actions  

Similar priority list

Wilfork being top priority – injuries to Jenkins and the San Diego NT showed how hard it is to replace a guy like that, and by keeping Wilfork on the roster, they’re probably saving money and roster spots – otherwise you’d basically need two or three guys to rotate in and get anywhere near the same kind of effectiveness Wilfork has.

Bodden second – I like having at least one big-bodied CB who can play the run and pass effectively. He doesn’t get manhandled like Wheatley and Wilhite, he’s more effective and faster than Springs, and he doesn’t jump routes like you-know-who and give up big plays. He’s not flashy enough to get elite tier CB money, although he’ll want to be comfortable. Finally, he seems to be a Pats-type player – quiet, does his work to a high level, doesn’t have brain explosions, is dependable, and makes plays when they matter – setting up that Tully Banta-Cain interception was truly great work.

Watson third – he’s a cheap-but-effective player. He never leaves the field when healthy, he’s great at blocking and a fair pass-catcher in a position that the Pats don’t pass to very often. He saves a roster spot by being both blocker and receiver. He has also shown an ability to make big plays when utterly necessary, which is a thing special players have (think Troy Brown) – that tackle of Champ Bailey, half a dozen big blocks on key rushing plays over the last few years, pulling out big performances like the Bills game, being the best blocker on the line in the loss to the Ravens.

Faulk fourth – heart of the offence, proven winner, has all the intangibles necessary – experience, leadership, game-winning gritty desire. The only reason he is slightly lower than he might deserve is that there are young guys like Edelman and Welker who show some of those same characteristics, and Faulk’s going to be just that little bit older, slower, more fragile, etc.

Gostkowski fifth – kickers are almost invisible until one blows up in your face (yes, you, Vanderjagt, with your idiot grin and money-fingers and abilty to give games to the Pats). Gostkowski has a lot of leg, good accuracy, and isn’t asking for Vinatieri numbers.

Guyton sixth – good performer, solid worker, does everything he needs to do and occasionally excells, all at good price. Lower priority, but probably one of the most likely to sign, because he seems to genuinely like being a Pat, has a friendship and partnership with Mayo, and has the right kind of attitude to succeed in the situation he’s in.

I’m so-so on Mankins. It really depends on what he wants to come back for; if he would soak up Vince’s money, out the door. If he asks for too much and they show him the exit, I wouldn’t shed any tears.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Jan 12, 2010 7:00 PM EST reply actions  

Great point about Wilfork

When the Chargers NT Jwill went down they had to carry an extra defensive linemen on gamedays and on the 53. Ever sine they basically are rotating two different sets of down linemen every other series. Its quite a nightmare. (not to mention you loose a STs player and or project roster spot) So to say a cheese burger eater like that is invaluable is an understatement. But I think its going to take more than a 5 year 40mil deal to keep him.

by AirNorval on Jan 12, 2010 7:14 PM EST up reply actions  

the only reason i dislike the chargers is bc of LT but the only reason i dont hate them is bc of Rivers

but go cream the jets will u plzz

Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum!

I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

by NinjaZX6R on Jan 12, 2010 7:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Mankins in the man!

There shouldn’t be any wishy-washiness on the Pats end about this. I want the guy signed.

Keep the faith!

by Marima on Jan 12, 2010 9:49 PM EST up reply actions  

What if it were Mankins OR Wilfork, though?

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Jan 12, 2010 9:56 PM EST up reply actions  

wilfork

cause its hard to find a 3-4 nt who play like him

pay the man!

Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum!

I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

by NinjaZX6R on Jan 12, 2010 10:31 PM EST up reply actions  

That was my thought, too

Good guards are a lot more common than good 3-4 nose tackles. There are maybe 10 guys around the league that you could replace Mankins with. There are only 2 or 3 you could replace Wilfork with. Every team has at least two starting quality Guards, after all. Not that many have great 3-4 Nose Tackles.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Jan 12, 2010 10:36 PM EST up reply actions  

though

if we do not sign neal…we also need to tag mankins then

Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum!

I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

by NinjaZX6R on Jan 12, 2010 10:42 PM EST up reply actions  

No we don't

If next year is uncapped, he’s a restricted free agent. We can match any offer he gets.

by RSNexile on Jan 12, 2010 11:18 PM EST up reply actions  

in that case

pay the man

Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum!

I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

by NinjaZX6R on Jan 12, 2010 11:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

As I said above, Mankins will be back because the Pats can match any offer to him, but I really hope they won’t wait for some other team to set the terms.

by RSNexile on Jan 13, 2010 12:10 PM EST up reply actions  

plus we can spent $$$ unlike the 8 playoff teams remaning...so good thing we got knocked out???

Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum!

I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

by NinjaZX6R on Jan 13, 2010 2:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Not really a good thing

But not necessarily a bad one. It would’ve been good to give the rookies some more playoff experience, but at least there’s a small bonus in not making the top 8. It makes it just a little bit more palatable.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Jan 13, 2010 5:06 PM EST up reply actions  

That won't be a problem IMO (deciding between these two players

I hope Faulk signs a 1 yr for at least half of his 09 salary. That will free up some cash. Another thing, since we didnt have a bad season signing top picks shouldn’t be a problem. I also think Brady’s contract has to be the biggest problem. Does he get Peyton money? Hopefully he takes one for the team again. Oh and how about Edleman? He is freekin awesome!

Jack of all trades-Master of None.....

by Yardpenalty.com on Jan 13, 2010 1:59 PM EST up reply actions  

I can't see them letting Kevin Faulk go

He played well this season and there’s no reason why he wouldn’t next year as well.

Keep the faith!

by Marima on Jan 13, 2010 2:17 PM EST up reply actions  

plus he is Captain Checkdown for General Brady

Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum!

I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

by NinjaZX6R on Jan 13, 2010 2:47 PM EST up reply actions  

wilhite and whealtey arem't rookies

but wilhite played like a rookie

Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum!

I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

by NinjaZX6R on Jan 12, 2010 7:13 PM EST reply actions  

you are correct sir!

Blogger at SBNation's Patriots blog, Pats Pulpit

by MaPatsFan on Jan 12, 2010 8:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

wasn't he injured most of last year?

"These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick

by Mainiac on Jan 14, 2010 11:17 AM EST up reply actions  

only person i dont want back is

neal (just bc he is old) and hanson

Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum!

I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

by NinjaZX6R on Jan 12, 2010 7:15 PM EST reply actions  

Also

Whats the deal with Ron Brace?

by AirNorval on Jan 12, 2010 7:15 PM EST reply actions  

got outplayed by a 7 th rounder

maybe he will be a good backup like jarvis green when king richard of seymour land was playing along w. wilfork and ty warren

Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum!

I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

by NinjaZX6R on Jan 12, 2010 7:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Brace has the physical tools to play NT

but he didn’t play much, indicating that he didn’t pick up on the schemes very well.

Maybe he turns things around this offseason. We’ll find out.

by nbradley07 on Jan 12, 2010 7:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Brace has better physicals than Pryor

but Pryor came in with a far higher Wonderlic score, and that really showed with how quickly he could not only pick up the playbook (he was getting sacks and fumbles in the preseason games!) but how he could do it for multiple positions – NT and DE in the 3-4 and DT in the 4-3.

Brace also had injuries that weren’t really discussed through the season, so it’s only speculation as to how much he was physically incapable of doing the things Pryor was doing. It might turn out that Brace (finally) picks up all the things to learn and outstrips Pryor, but Pryor lived up to his billing as a smart player and contributed in his first year.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Jan 12, 2010 7:32 PM EST up reply actions  

go figure

a wkyu grad outplaying a bc grad lol

Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum!

I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

by NinjaZX6R on Jan 12, 2010 7:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Brace has had the benefit of playing alongside BJ Raji...

…he needs to get stronger if he wants to take the NT role for himself. Brace was playing second fiddle in a 4-3 setting and is being asked to be a starting NT in a 3-4. That’s a big jump for anyone. I think he’ll get it done.

Offensive Coordinator > Guard > Tackle > DE > OLB > RB > WR > CB

by Richard Hill on Jan 12, 2010 9:27 PM EST up reply actions  

well they dont have a true 3-4 NT and raji is a 3-4 de but he looks way to big (fat) to be a 3-4 de...look @ all the other 3-4 DE in the league and then look @ raji.

and i think raji is little undersized to play 3-4 NT

Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum!

I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

by NinjaZX6R on Jan 13, 2010 2:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Depends if they're a one-gap or two-gap 3-4, too

New England runs the two-gap – every D-lineman has to control the gap to their left and to their right. From memory, Green Bay is running a one-gap system – they’re only responsible for hitting one place, all the time, so they can afford to be bigger and less mobile, because they’re just meant to be a big battering ram in the same place every time.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Jan 13, 2010 5:08 PM EST up reply actions  

so...they are running a 3-4

like how college football teams like ohio state and bama and a few others have been using this season.

Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum!

I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

by NinjaZX6R on Jan 13, 2010 7:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Most likely

I’m not a huge follower of college football, but I’d imagine most college teams use the more simple one-gap version of the 3-4.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Jan 13, 2010 8:57 PM EST up reply actions  

i watch ohio state football

i was happy when they started using 3-4 system and they play both1 gap and 2 gap
 they have great 2 3-4 DE ends one of them will be projected as a 2nd rounder this year and the other one who is staying for his senior year was projected as a 1st rounder if he decided to come out early.
its funny how when nfl teams are moving to 3-4, some college teams are also switching

Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum!

I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

by NinjaZX6R on Jan 13, 2010 10:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Colleges get recruits by telling high school kids they'll get in the NFL

So it’s just one more selling point – “You’ll be more attractive to the Pats, Steelers, Ravens, Jets, etc… because we use a 3-4 too”

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Jan 13, 2010 10:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Raji is a beast for sure. Also I like your theories man. You definetly are far from a jabberjaw. You guys are fun to follow.

I remember when there was no websites like this one and letting your voice be heard was just impossible. I like to think that decisions should be made through the fans somewhat and I think sites like this get consideration. Like the Larry Johnson protest. I would like to think that it helped. Let’s take this into draft time and hopefully it can be heard.Draft picks Butler, Chung, and Brace will have to produce a probowler, but this year we have like 7 top 3 rnds right?

Jack of all trades-Master of None.....

by Yardpenalty.com on Jan 15, 2010 12:08 AM EST up reply actions  

no

1 1st rounder and 3 2nd rounders…i dont think we have any 3rd rounders this year

Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum!

I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

by NinjaZX6R on Jan 15, 2010 1:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Man it seemed like we had more picks than that. Well I love the 3 in the 2nd round.

I haven’t really researched this years draft class, but I do know that the first round has great prospects. Do we get a 1st rounder this year or next for Seymour? I have brain farts.

Jack of all trades-Master of None.....

by Yardpenalty.com on Jan 15, 2010 7:20 PM EST up reply actions  

since i live in ohio

wkyu is kinda of a joke school down in ky compared to uk and ekyu and Louisville

Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum!

I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

by NinjaZX6R on Jan 12, 2010 9:31 PM EST up reply actions  

He'd be a 33 year old third-down back, though

I’m not sure he should be paid more for doing what he’s always done, especially since he’ll presumably be that little bit older, slower, weaker and more fragile.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Jan 12, 2010 10:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Pats: Who will stay and who will go?

Why is everyone keeping the dirty laundry in the closet? It stinks to high heaven, and needs to be washed on steam setting, high heat, then air dried.

1) Pile of dirty, stinking underwear: It is time for Kraft to show BB the door. He has hidden behind Brady’s throwing arm, and despite that, he and his coaches managed to engineer the most humiliating defeat in sports history, from which NE may never recover – the loss to the 4th rate Giants.

NE needs and deserves a coach with honesty, good nature, foresight, and integrity.

2) Pile of dirty, stinking, sweatshirts: Brady has lost his nerve. Will he be able to play again? Will he EVER have the strength, courage, and wisdom of Warner and Favre? Is this just a down year? Kraft needs to look into the cryst al ball this off-season and shop him now if the answer is “NO!”

3) Pile of dirty, stinking jockstraps: Hate me now, do you? The proof of the proverbial pie is in the coaching…. look at boy McDaniels and Eric the “Mangenius.” Where do they come off as being coaches? BB has seeded the NFL with his bad coaching decisions. Maybe that was his plan afterall? Hmmmm…..

The Patriots were fun to watch last year. We all knew they weren’t going anywhere, but under Cassel they played with HEART – something missing this year.

Fans, get out the laundry soap and start washing away, or the stink will continue for years to come.

by The Mysterian on Jan 12, 2010 8:32 PM EST reply actions  

Why am I not surprised?

Chicken Little shows up just to tell us how badly Belichick needs to be fired.

by RSNexile on Jan 12, 2010 8:39 PM EST up reply actions  

never met this chicken little

what did he do before oct when i joined?

Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum!

I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

by NinjaZX6R on Jan 12, 2010 9:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Nothing. This is his 3rd ever post.

What does Belichick’s coaching tree have ANYTHING to do with our free agency signings?

Offensive Coordinator > Guard > Tackle > DE > OLB > RB > WR > CB

by Richard Hill on Jan 12, 2010 9:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Hey mathew.40

Why didn’t you bash this guy for saying they should trade Brady? Others now believe it may have to happen.

by jaymorey on Jan 13, 2010 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

dont worry a true loyal pat fan took care of him

Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum!

I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

by NinjaZX6R on Jan 13, 2010 2:50 PM EST up reply actions  

As far as I can see, the only 'others' you're referring to

are as mindless and alarmist as you are. “The sky is falling, trade Brady.” No mention of who you’re replacing Brady with, I notice.

Smart roster move. Trade out your most vital player and then don’t have a plan to replace him. That’ll go well, I bet.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Jan 13, 2010 5:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Have you not watched the Patriots the last decade?

Tom Brady’s numbers have been just as good as the last year as the 3 super bowl years. It is the rest of the team that has been lacking. ex. Strong running game. O-line, Defense. Tom Brady is not the problem.

by Huzaifa P on Jan 18, 2010 8:49 PM EST up reply actions  

One year - with a myriad of changes

this guy doesn’t see ‘heart’. So, I guess ‘fire the coach’ is the number one solution to adding heart to a team (that incidentally finished as division leader and number 3 seed.) Makes sense, right?

Keep the faith!

by Marima on Jan 12, 2010 9:51 PM EST up reply actions  

So... his coaching tree is full of nobodies, yet he won Superbowls and 16-0 seasons and the like

wouldn’t that be an indication that Belichick is actually better than anyone, if these sub-standard coaches look great when they’re at New England?

Unless you’re willing to say that Belichick AND his co-ordinators were ‘hidden’ behind Tom Brady’s arm. That same arm you’re claiming is shot, I notice. Funny how a ‘broken’ QB and ‘broken’ Head Coach can still win a division…

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Jan 12, 2010 10:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Fourth-rate teams make the Superbowl, now?

That’s an interesting assertion, considering they had to win so many games to get there. I didn’t realise they just handed out wins in playoffs and divisional and conference championship games, either.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Jan 12, 2010 10:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't get too crazy

Dump BB…no. Shake the coordinator and asst. coach spots, yes, definitely. People screamed at me in my blog here on Pats Pulpit to trade Brady; I think you are dead on—-Brady lost his edge, his guts, his fire. Remember what Mickey says to Rocky, “Women weaken legs!”. Well, in this case, they weaken motivation. Down year? Downside of career? Kraft really does need to address this, if not this draft, then by 2011—-ESPECIALLY with the labor issues that loom ahead!!!

by jaymorey on Jan 13, 2010 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

So what about the other married QBs around the league?

Are they all celibate? Or maybe you’re just blowing smoke…

Keep the faith!

by Marima on Jan 13, 2010 2:18 PM EST up reply actions  

lolololol

Marima, of course it is different because they didn’t marry supermodels!!! ;-)

by mellyh on Jan 13, 2010 4:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Nobody agreed with you, except your sockpuppet

Move along, troll.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Jan 13, 2010 5:13 PM EST up reply actions  

he wants a permanent deal not a tag

plus if the salary cap ends in early 2010…we can sign whoever we want..

Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum!

I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

by NinjaZX6R on Jan 12, 2010 10:52 PM EST up reply actions  

You have to consider

That even though 2010 is most likely an uncapped year, that doesn’t mean its permanent. So what happens when a cap gets placed in? You dump your roster?

by Justin_Bobo on Jan 13, 2010 2:52 PM EST up reply actions  

i'm sure they would jack up the salary cap (if it did come back)

Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum!

I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

by NinjaZX6R on Jan 13, 2010 2:54 PM EST up reply actions  

By a finite sum, sure

But they’ve been doing that every year, anyway. It doesn’t mean you can offer $100 million, ten year deals to everyone you like, though.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Jan 13, 2010 5:14 PM EST up reply actions  

oh..i dont want us to be the redskins

but i want the pats to ink wilfork and mankins and get good FA players.

Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum!

I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

by NinjaZX6R on Jan 13, 2010 7:33 PM EST up reply actions  

and why is the hoodie wearing shorts in winter esp in boston??

Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum!

I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

by NinjaZX6R on Jan 12, 2010 10:53 PM EST reply actions  

It's not that cold today

Must’ve been almost 20 degrees when I went to the office this morning, so I’m pretty sure it got almost up to 40 today. That’s warm enough for shorts if you’re not outside too long.

by RSNexile on Jan 12, 2010 11:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Gostkowski

is a must keep for you guys. Wilfork too. I’m curious to see what will happen with Wilfork more than anything, but I think BB is too smart to let him go.

Oh and why isn’t Tom Brady leaving, I hear he is washed up…. ;)

by dolphinsinbuffalo on Jan 12, 2010 11:22 PM EST reply actions  

Sign Em!!

Absolutely – Wilfork, Bodden, Watson, Gostkowski and Faulk

Possibly – Pierre Woods, Gary Guyton

No way on the rest with the exception of Junior Seau- I think he can still contribute.

I’d like to see them pick up a couple studs on the defensive line after ridding themselves of Mankins, Green, Burgess and Neal – but what do I know? I would also get rid of Elmo and Taylor to keep Green-Ellis, Morris and Faulk. As far as Hanson goes, you could pick up a punter for peanuts or two tees, a pack of gum and a football!!

Those of you who think you know everything just annoy those of us who do!!

by Sully F on Jan 12, 2010 11:45 PM EST reply actions  

Mankins is only in his mid 20s and he's Pro-Bowl calibre...

…people don’t like him because of his false start penalties. He kept Brady the most clean other than Koppen and Vollmer.

Offensive Coordinator > Guard > Tackle > DE > OLB > RB > WR > CB

by Richard Hill on Jan 13, 2010 3:15 AM EST up reply actions  

I think the false start come from how far he has to turn to help out Light.

He’s definitely a keeper.

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Jan 13, 2010 6:52 AM EST up reply actions  

How can Seau contribute?

He was slower than when John Lynch was when he played those preseason games with us.

by Justin_Bobo on Jan 13, 2010 2:53 PM EST up reply actions  

He snuffed a few runs in the playoff game

mainly because he was experienced and savvy enough that he knew precisely where the guy was going, and got in the position to tackle him through intelligence and awareness, not outright speed.

The Pats started off with their quickest defence and got burned for an 83 yard run, first play. Speed on D doesn’t guarantee success.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Jan 13, 2010 5:16 PM EST up reply actions  

well not against i formation power run

beat that stupid SEC

Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum!

I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

by NinjaZX6R on Jan 13, 2010 7:35 PM EST up reply actions  

must sign wilfork

    Someone said, i think Boomer Esiason that edelman was the only one who showed up on sunday. Well, he did show up, but it was Wilfork who really let loose, and that is no surprise. The man comes to play every game. He is the most irreplaceable. Then Faulk – pay him even though he is long in the tooth. We don’t win any Superbowls without Kevin. You could put up a highlight reel of the biggest third down conversions in the history of the Pats and he would lead by a mile. Welker has taken over that mantle, but we don’t know when he will be back, we can hope he plays and early next year, but it could be longer. Faulk still has great value, and he also showed up. one of the bigger plays offensively was his third down conversion on one of our best drives, but that was negated by the Moss offensive pass interference( a non call in my book). I like Bodden, hope he’s back, but he may be elsewhere. Like to see Mankins back. Not sure why the negativity around him from some people. I know probowl is often reputation based, but it still means you are playing at a high level. I think he’s got the mean streak a line needs. As far as Watson, he is ok, but to compare him to Dallas Clark, I mean come on, did you see how he reverted to stone hands again on sunday? He’s got good speed but his hands have never been good and I don’t think they ever will, but he’s a solid number two, his blocking has improved. Like to see Gostkowski back , too, although he also choked on Sunday. What is it with kickers in the playoffs so far. Bengals guy missed two huge ones, Gostkowski, I think the Zona kicker missed one, philly guy missed on, and these were all within 45, i believe. I’d bet Woods and Guyton will be back, and if Jr wants too, hell, let him play again, just for blowing up that screen pass on Sunday.
    By the way, if any of you are still reading, it is so obvious to me now(great hindsight i’ve got) that it was decided or acknowledged that this was our rebuilding year before the season started, and that blows me away. Most teams go 4-12, then 7-9,8-8, etc, while we go 10-6 win the division and make the playoffs, and get spanked by a buzzsaw that is going to give indy everything it can handle(hopefully flacco isn’t flaccid on saturday).
   I have good feelings for the development of Butler, Brace, Pryor, Chung, Edelman, Slater(great special teamer), and I really was impressed with brandon Tate althought the sample size was small, but if he’s back healthy and Mckenzie, i really like the youth movement – we need a better pass rush – and to round it all in, Wilfork is a big part of that, he clogs the middle, we need edge rushers. We get them, we are solid.

by furiousd on Jan 13, 2010 12:57 AM EST reply actions  

I saw two drops by Watson

One where he got cleaned out between Ed Reed and (I think) Ray Lewis. It’s no surprise he coughed the ball up in that situation – Dallas Clark himself did exactly the same thing the last time the Ravens played the Colts, and Dallas Clark did it on the goal-line, too.

The second drop was off a post route up the centre between the safeties, nearing the goal-line with a few minutes to go. Watson got hit early and never really had a chance after that because the hit turned his shoulders and arms inside-out relative to his catching stance, making it a very, very difficult catch; Brady and Watson were calling for a flag, but didn’t get it.

Neither one was a ‘true’ drop – being hit by Ray Lewis and Ed Reed after a hospital pass by Brady is bound to spill the ball; it’s remarkable that he actually got his hands on it enough to control it in the first place, because he collected the defenders at the same time. The second one was potentially catchable, but could as easily have been a flag for pass interference and given the Pats a first down on the 5 yard line. Neither one really seemed ‘stone-hands’-ish.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Jan 13, 2010 3:44 AM EST up reply actions  

"hostiptal pass by Brady"

Unusual for him to lay out one of his receivers like that, but that’s a dead-on way of describing it.

Keep the faith!

by Marima on Jan 13, 2010 7:07 AM EST up reply actions  

good points, but...

   you are forgetting one of the first drives when watson was wide open in the flat for an easy 5 yard catch towards the sideline with a potential for a few more yards depending on a move or the tackler – Bonk! – off his hands. He did the same thing on the same exact play against Indy. You are right about the last one, should have been a flag, but he just lacks consistency. I know they didn’t feature him very often this year, but he has been the same every year, great speed, can get open, but too many drops. He is tantalizing. i keep waiting for the breakout year, but it never happens. Like i said, i like him, but he’s a great number 2. You are right about a couple of those balls, but i don’t htink you can argue that he isn’t inconsistent and a little too unreliable.

by furiousd on Jan 13, 2010 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think I saw that one, but I remember the Indy one.

And during the Indy game thread, I hypoethesised that Watson’s had issues catching on the flats because the ball is more or less coming laterally to him. Watson’s quick, but he’s a 250lber . He just seems too big and inflexible to manage those twisting-at-the-hip sideways running catches necessary to catch in the flat routes. It’s no coincidence that the two guys who are best at them – Welker and Faulk – are far smaller and of a less bulky build. I don’t think Watson’s inability to catch in the flats is down to his hands, per se; it’s more about his lack of ability to run in one direction and twist perpendicular to make the catch at the same time. He only ever seems to twist a quarter of the way, and then try to make the catch with one hand far out to his left or right, not evenly distributed.

The further reason I don’t think it’s his hands is because he can make such athletic (and difficult) grabs when he’s running vertical routes – look at the second Bills TD and tell me that isn’t a fantastic catch. His hands are there, and only a guy with good catching ability could make that grab. The difference is that when he’s running a vertical route, he doesn’t have to catch in a different direction to how he’s running – he can manouvre himself to align his hands with the ball. His hands are fine, his flexibility isn’t.

I guess a lot of it comes to playcalling – he got 500 yards and 5 TDs this year, which is actually very good production when you consider he only got 30 catches and very few targets. I just cringed when Bill O’Brien kept calling those flats plays to Watson – even if he caught it, he isn’t running at full-speed and he’s off-balance, which basically take his best weapons out of play – his speed and his size. Ugh. In a season where the Pats were grasping for deep vertical threats, they kept running Watson underneath… Infuriating.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Jan 13, 2010 5:28 PM EST up reply actions  

they should try putting him @ fb off set for a play and make him run a wheel route out of the backfield

his speed will beat the Lb

Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum!

I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

by NinjaZX6R on Jan 13, 2010 7:38 PM EST up reply actions  

DON'T. PAY. THE. MAN.

And let him walk to Miami!

"Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat." - Theodore Roosevelt

by Daniel52 on Jan 13, 2010 1:43 AM EST reply actions  

Pretty good analysis...

…. but unfortunately I don’t think BB or Kraft or anyone in the Pats organization will read it. The only thing Kraft will read is the balance sheet from his accountant. The Pats has been nickeling and diming players for years. It backfired and blew up in their faces this season, but I don’t think they are going to change.

by getthat18now on Jan 13, 2010 3:49 AM EST reply actions  

The Pats also rely heavily on depth.

BB’s philosophy is that if on one man goes down, the next has to step up. In order for that to work, the next man can’t be a TOTAL schmo. As a result, Bill spreads the money out over the entire roster, instead of concentrating it on the 22 starters.

Belichick will never place the a season in the hopefully healthy hands of one or two players, with a few exceptions (i.e. Brady). He will always have, to the greatest extent possible, a roster that is deep and prepared to be competitive, regardless of injuries. Imagine if they paid Eaton (remember him?), Branch, Andruzzi, Samuel, Seymour AND Wilfork? They’d be cap-stricken, and every season would end with “Well, if only so-and-so hadn’t gotten injured.” Instead, the Pats have quality depth that ensures long-term stability as well as short-term competitiveness.

by nbradley07 on Jan 13, 2010 10:09 AM EST up reply actions  

Enough with being satified by only squeaking out a division title!

Comedic.sans, bro, you gotta stop with this. You are supposed to vy for Super Bowl wins, not division titles. That’s just what should happen on the way. The Pats were soooo lucky to have pulled it out this year, but no one in the AFC was fooled by them. You post the following:

“Yet they didn’t lose any players because they weren’t being paid enough; they traded or cut those who were too old and/or expensive and drafted deeply. That’s good business practice, not bad.”

Exactly right…which is why players like Watson will be gone (this was his last year to try and show he belonged—-remember the name Chris baker?), older $$$ players like Neal (who I like, but has broken down too much in the past few years) and Faulk ($3 mil for a 30 something that touches the ball maybe 10-12 times a game? C’mon son!) will be cut. Keep Mankins; he’ still young enough and with some youth around him, he can still play.

by jaymorey on Jan 13, 2010 12:53 PM EST up reply actions  

who's satisfied?

Jonathan Kraft isn’t. He said his father isn’t, the organization isn’t, Belichick isn’t, Brady isn’t… The fans sure aren’t.

But as Hoodie says, “it is what it is.” It’s not ‘being satisfied,’ it’s truthfully evaluating where they are. There was some good, even with the bad outcome, and that needs to be looked at too. This isn’t about a public team-flogging right now, but an accurate assessment, as objective as possible, into what & who needs to be kept and what/who needs to be discarded.

Winning the division wasn’t the ultimate goal, but it was still a milestone that they met.

Keep the faith!

by Marima on Jan 13, 2010 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Watson was cheap, he blocked his butt off, and never left the field

He’s actually one of those guys that Superbowl winning teams are buit on – solid contributors who contribute a lot more than they’re paid.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Jan 13, 2010 5:34 PM EST up reply actions  

damn….u are always the person i rec the most on this site. great points…and maybe u should be a writer on this site

Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum!

I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

by NinjaZX6R on Jan 13, 2010 2:53 PM EST up reply actions  

We'd need a separate spell checker
maybe u should be a writer on this site

Otherwise defence, flavour, and offence would get flagged. ;-)

Blogger at SBNation's Patriots blog, Pats Pulpit

by MaPatsFan on Jan 13, 2010 3:19 PM EST up reply actions  

sorry lol...i'm too lazy to write out full words

Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum!

I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

by NinjaZX6R on Jan 13, 2010 7:41 PM EST up reply actions  

No, I meant for Comedic.Sans

Us cretinous Americans use a bastardized version of the Queen’s English.

Blogger at SBNation's Patriots blog, Pats Pulpit

by MaPatsFan on Jan 13, 2010 8:28 PM EST up reply actions  

oh

i thought he was american living in NZ.

Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum!

I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

by NinjaZX6R on Jan 13, 2010 8:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Ye gods, no

Aeroplanes and encyclopaedias with ‘ae’, aluminium and honour with a ‘u’, driving on the left, using metric, and delightful accents, the whole deal.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Jan 13, 2010 9:02 PM EST up reply actions  

i love aussie and kiwi accents..esp from women..so sexy

Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum!

I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

by NinjaZX6R on Jan 13, 2010 10:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, we don't use English made for queens.

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Jan 14, 2010 10:10 AM EST up reply actions  

Nor do I, thankfully

I’m a proud speaker (officially, hmpf) of New Zealand English. Not quite her Majesty’s tongue, plus it means I get to throw around a few Pacific Island-origined words with impunity. And I can say/spell all those names like Haloti Ngata and Troy Polamalu without fumbling.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Jan 15, 2010 12:26 AM EST up reply actions  

u still call her " Her Majesty's" ...lol

Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum!

I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

by NinjaZX6R on Jan 15, 2010 1:57 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm still in the Commonwealth, so she's still my Queen

but she is, officially, the Queen of New Zealand (ie: not Queen of England, for the purposes of the law, constitution, etc). She just happens to be the same person as the Queen of England. Upside of all that is my Head of State doesn’t live here, doesn’t get paid out of my taxes, and can’t really do anything at all in my name. ’Tis wonderful.

Plus one of the princes is coming here next week to open the new Supreme Court building, I’m supposed to be feeling all warm and fuzzy about royalty, or something. I couldn’t quite tell you which prince, though. It might be Edward? I guess I fail at royalty-spotting. Hah.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Jan 15, 2010 2:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Comedic.Sans always has well thought out points.

He also has some witty satire. Just don’t tell him I said so. ;-)

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Jan 13, 2010 4:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I won't tell him

I hate that guy. He talks too much.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Jan 13, 2010 5:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Uh oh, cat is out of the bag!

Don’t let it go to your head.

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Jan 13, 2010 6:17 PM EST up reply actions  

The praise?

Or the very angry, recently bag-less cat? I wouldn’t want one of those on my head. It would be too similar to wearing Joey Porter as a hat.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Jan 13, 2010 9:03 PM EST up reply actions  

If I was sending a cat at your head,

I’d use a cat-apult.

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Jan 14, 2010 10:11 AM EST up reply actions  

well said,

   but also yo have to throw in for the raiders Asomghua(sp), and Lechler, Does’nt take away from your argument though.

by furiousd on Jan 13, 2010 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Asomugha was a great find, true, and Lechler is a good punter

But when you’re unable to buy, trade or draft a good HB, QB or WR because of the godawful ones you’ve got, and your second best player is a punter, well… it’s unfortunate for what was once a great franchise.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Jan 13, 2010 5:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Doubtful. Can you receive that in Hong Kong?

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Jan 13, 2010 10:03 AM EST up reply actions  

True dat.

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Jan 13, 2010 11:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Nope. Don't listen to that here

But there are ample of other sources of info on the Pats. For 30 yrs, my job has been taking me to different places and I always find ways to support the Pats and the Cs. Sunday’s game was their worst playoff loss, even worse than the time the Pats were run over by the ’ refrigerator ’ Perry.

by getthat18now on Jan 15, 2010 4:19 AM EST up reply actions  

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