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Week 13 Jets vs Patriots: Old Guard? Upstart? Who's Who?

Game of the Week!  Game of the Year!  GAME OF THE CENTURY!!!!  

What's really going on here?

The way the media has been pitching this game, it’s been "The insurgent Jets seek to upend the long-reigning Patriots!"    The Patriots have been AFC Champions seven times in the last ten years -- the class of the Division for what seems like an eternity.  They are the team of the internet, that's for sure.  In cyber-time, we've known these guys for aeons.  

Certainly, the marquee names on the Pats' offense and defense have been around a while.  Vince Wilfork has been in the NFL for seven years; Tom Brady is an eleven year veteran.  When we look across the line of scrimmage through the lens of mass media we see Mark Sanchez, the Jets QB, a toddler at 2 and Darelle Revis leading the defense with only four years under his belt.  Rex Ryan has only been guiding his franchise since January of 2009, whilst Belichick has had the helm in New England since the year 2000.  

But while the franchises may be stacked that way, the Patriots are the junior team on both sides of the ball and although organizationally the Jets lead the upstart charge into Foxboro to unseat the old guard, it is the Patriots who have cobbled together a group of young Turks to hold off Rex Ryan's army of veteran mercenaries.  

Come over the jump and we'll dig into the facts.

Star-divide

Put on your sunglasses with me, and let's peer behind the sun-like glow of quarterback stardom.  We're smart fans here at Pats Pulpit; I'm often gratified (and a bit nonplussed) to read analysis from paid columnists and scribes that I've already seen laid out with greater detail and accuracy in the comments section and on the front page of this blog.  So it's no news to you-all that the big concern from the Patriots' side of things is our porous defensive unit -- notably our secondary.  

We know the facts: #1 in your hearts but ... #32 in the league against the pass.  Ugh.  And why? Why, because they're toddlers!  Here's a tenure breakdown of Patriots contributors at the defensive skill positions (everyone but the trenchmen):

Jermaine Cunningham Rookie
Jerod Mayo 3 years
Brandon Spikes Rookie
Rob Ninkovich 5 years
Kyle Arrington 2 years
Brandon Meriweather 4 years
Pat Chung 2 years
Devin McCourty Rookie

 

Average time in the league for that crew?  Two years.  Two.  These are babies, man -- some of them just started growing hair under their arms, like, yesterday.  Let's contrast that with the Jets they'll be charged with grounding:

 

Mark Sanchez 2 years
LaDainian Tomlinson 10 years
Braylon Edwards 6 years
Santonio Holmes 5 years
Dustin Keller 3 years
Jerricho Cotchery 7 years
Brad Smith 5 years

 

With an average tenure of 5.4 years, the Jets have been playing professional football for three and half years longer than the Patriots.  The same is true if we focus in on the lines.  For comparison purposes, I've included several of the major Patriot contributors who don't actually start but given the "sub" nature of our defense, I think it's legit.  I did less of it with the linebackers, but I don't think it makes a meaningful difference.

 

Gerard Warren 10 years
Vince Wilfork 7 years
Brandon Deaderick Rookie
Mike Wright 6 years
Ron Brace 2 years
Myron Pryor 2 years

 

...for an average tenure of 4.66 years.  The Jets:

 

D'Brickashaw Ferguson 5 years
Matt Slauson 2 years
Nick Mangold 5 years
Brandon Moore 8 years
Damien Woody 12 years

 

...for an average of 6.4 years.  Overall, the Patriots defense has been in the League for 3.2 years, whilst the Jets offense has been helmeted on Sundays for 5.8 years -- almost twice as long.  Even if you throw out old-man outliers like Tomlinson and Woody, they still edge the Pats in experience.

I don't think you can emphasize this enough, really.  The New England Defense has grown before our eyes this year but they've also turned in some real stinkers (hello, Cleveland).  Even when we win, teams march up and down the field.  Individually you can see the potential, but there are still massive holes in the zones and occasional lapses along the front line -- particularly at the edge of things where our young linebackers come into play.

On Monday, the edges of our defense will be the areas to watch for mistakes made by young football minds.  Holmes, Edwards and Cotchery dueling with McCourty, Arrington and Chung.  LDT twisting up Cunningham, Spikes, even Mayo.  

Even when the teams switch sides, the Jets will continue to have the edge in NFL experience -- without (it should be noted) being actually "old" in playing terms.  The Jets defense has an overall tenure of 7.4 years in the league (for calculation purposes I used Ellis, Pouha, DeVito, Pryce, Gholston, Taylor, Thomas, Scott, Harris, Pace, Revis, Leonhard, Pool and Cromartie).  By contrast, the Patriots offense clocks in at 5.7 years (Brady, BJGE, Branch, Welker, Woodhead, Gronkowski, Crumpler, Hernandez, Light, Mankins, Koppen, Connolly, Vollmer).  By unit, our offensive line is the older group, with 6.2 years overall -- but still younger than the Jets' frontmen who come in with an average of 7.6 NFL seasons.

It's a nice narrative hook to talk about the upstart Jets and the established Patriots.  From a franchise perspective -- at least over the last 10 years -- that's a legitimate observation.  But as Jests fans will never tire of reminding you, the Jets lead the overall series 51-50 in a game that goes back to the very roots of the AFL.  To be fair to a history that long, we must acknowledge that for years it was the NYJ who not only were the legitimate franchise between the two, they were the only franchise that made the AFL a legitimate league.

But the recent history is clear: the Patriots, as an organization, have become one of the class franchises of the NFL.  The next step for this team will come when Belichik leaves as head coach, as is inevitable.  As one of our estimable commentators has remarked, the Steelers are at the head of the league and right now no one else comes close.  Sustained success is the hallmark.

If the last two years of player management are any indication, we should hold hope for joining them at the pinnacle.  The amazing thing about the Patriots' Organization is that they’ve almost completely retooled the entire jalopy without pulling it to the roadside. The defense is largely done; it’ll be the offensive line’s turn next.

Monday will be a serious test for that young defense, as our "Baby D" gets a chance to cut its teeth against a group of seasoned veterans in their prime -- with bad intentions.  This game may wear the garb of David vs. Goliath, with the scrappy upstart looking to dethrone the king.  But if you remember who the players are, beneath the costumes from central casting (ESPN, et al), you know it's not that simple.

Go Pats!

The views expressed in these FanPosts are not necessarily those of the writers or SBNation.

Comment 105 comments  |  4 recs  | 

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the changing of the guard is happening as the season progresses

but contrary to what jets fans would like to think the new guards are still patriots, not the upstart jets

No I'm not the best, I just live life like it.

Formerly Moss81

by 2Chung5 on Dec 4, 2010 12:30 AM EST reply actions  

Interesting JHR

While I conceded the Patriots much younger defense, I still had that image of the Patriots in general as the older, more veteran team and most likely because of the head coaches and quarterbacks as the faces of each franchise.

Great write up, made me think.

Keep the faith!

by Marima on Dec 4, 2010 8:45 AM EST reply actions  

Thanks for linking to your comment about the Steelers.

I agree, and was glad to see you say it. It adds credibility to the page when we acknowledge reality: they’re the best organization in the League’s history. There’s room at the top, but it’s a lonely neighborhood for the moment.

As Mr. Sloan always says, there is no "I" in team, but there is an "I" in pie. And there's an "I" in meat pie. Anagram of meat is team... I don't know what he's talking about. --Shaun of the Dead

by JohnHannahRules on Dec 4, 2010 11:59 AM EST up reply actions  

Fitting to see you on the front page again.

Great piece.

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 4, 2010 12:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks, man.

As Mr. Sloan always says, there is no "I" in team, but there is an "I" in pie. And there's an "I" in meat pie. Anagram of meat is team... I don't know what he's talking about. --Shaun of the Dead

by JohnHannahRules on Dec 5, 2010 10:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Would you rather have a young defense that's last in the AFC....

… and second worst in the NFL, or an experienced defense that’s in the top 3?

Just curious.

by James Calvin on Dec 4, 2010 12:06 PM EST reply actions  

I suppose

to be our “rebuilding year” and we are 9-2….
Most fans here knew that the offense this year had to carry the team cause we knew our young D prob couldn’t stop teams….we just hoped they made crucial stops when they needed to…And that has happened. Happened against the Bills, Ravens, Chargers, Colts, Lions and the Vikings.

our offense and defense will get younger again next year. We have 2 1st round picks, 2-2nd rd picks (one of them belongs to the Panthers who have the wost record in the NFL), and two more 3rd round picks….and add the rest of the picks from the 4th rd to the 6th.

Non Sibi Sed Patriae &I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

Toy Story wears no. 39 100x better than D.D.R

Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."

by NinjaZX6R on Dec 4, 2010 12:13 PM EST up reply actions  

As young as they are

the defenses problem boils down pressure on the QB. It just needs to be more consistent. If you can’t get pressure on the QB just about any DB will look like chopped liver, Brady proves that on a weekly basis. I know some of you think the pressure isn’t that bad and point out the interceptions Manning threw and the sacks of Roethlisberger as examples but I just don’t see it. SInce, Vrabel left we just haven’t had that guy that can consistently get a hand on the QB. I truly hope that is their main focus in the draft. As soon as we can make the opposing QB feel uncomfortable in the pocket that secondary will begin to shine.

by Oughat on Dec 4, 2010 7:19 PM EST up reply actions  

i argee somewhat but all those ints by the 5 head, Shaun Hill and Big Ben

were all created by pressure…look at the video….both had to either step up uncomfortably in the pocket and hastily throw the ball or their arms were hit.

Non Sibi Sed Patriae &I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

Toy Story wears no. 39 100x better than D.D.R

Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."

by NinjaZX6R on Dec 4, 2010 8:54 PM EST up reply actions  

agree**

Non Sibi Sed Patriae &I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

Toy Story wears no. 39 100x better than D.D.R

Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."

by NinjaZX6R on Dec 4, 2010 8:54 PM EST up reply actions  

"B," obviously.

I’m not arguing that they’re better — that would be stupid. I’m just challenging the prevailing narrative.

Would you rather have the top-rated quarterback in the league? Or one who’s ranking 22nd?

Just curious.

As Mr. Sloan always says, there is no "I" in team, but there is an "I" in pie. And there's an "I" in meat pie. Anagram of meat is team... I don't know what he's talking about. --Shaun of the Dead

by JohnHannahRules on Dec 4, 2010 12:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Dyar ranks him 19 ...one below carson palmer of all people

Non Sibi Sed Patriae &I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

Toy Story wears no. 39 100x better than D.D.R

Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."

by NinjaZX6R on Dec 4, 2010 12:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, if the entire offense relies on the QB's arm....

You’d want the one with the higher rating even if he’s 10 years older.

But since I was citing TEAM stats, it’s interesting that the Jets team offense is ranked higher that the Pats TEAM offense, with a QB that just turned 24- and such ‘horrible’ stats.

by James Calvin on Dec 4, 2010 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Funnier still how the Pats TEAM is ranked higher than the Jets

In that little thing called points.

They don’t matter much though

by Csigs on Dec 4, 2010 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

You are absolutey right!

The Pats D allows way more points than the Jets.

by James Calvin on Dec 4, 2010 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

And the Pats offense scores more than the Jets offense

and every other offense in the entire league. That includes scoring 115 points in the past 3 weeks.

I don't think so. Homey don't play dat.
Creator of the moniker "DDR©"

by AtomicDawg on Dec 4, 2010 3:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Good for you-

But the Jets have the second highest point differential in the NFL., +77.

Despite all of those points you score, the pats are around 6th. Probably because of the young defense- and party because the Jets scored 14 more than the Pats in week 2.

by James Calvin on Dec 4, 2010 4:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree.

And as a young defense, they will continue to learn.

In the beginning of the season, our defense was not doing that well at all. After the bye week, we have seen them mature more, and become better. Instead of having points scored throughout the game, they allow 80% of the points scored in the 4th quarter alone, as is proven from the colts game, and steelers game, chargers game. That doesn’t mean it’s a good thing, t’s just saying that they have improved.

Not only that, but we have seen them shut down opponents late in the game as well. I know you may not think much of the lions offense, despite if Suh made the field goal you guys would have lost, but they have a TE who I believe is leading ALL TEs in receptions, and they have probably the 2nd best receiver in the game. That’s not always easy to defense.

In the second half, we also shut down the ravens.

5 out of those 6 games after the bye week, we have witnessed the pats defense either do very well throughout the second half, or only do well from the 1st quarter to the 3rd. Cleveland is the outlier.

So, I’m expecting you guys to see either one of these defenses. This is their performances.

I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP

These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick

I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!

by patriotguy2 on Dec 4, 2010 5:45 PM EST up reply actions  

What does cumulative point differential have to do with it?

if a team finishes +16, they can be 16-0.
Similarly, a few large wins and many close losses can result in +16, but finish 5-11.

Paul the Octopus - gone but not forgotten

by insertscreenname on Dec 4, 2010 8:13 PM EST up reply actions  

A win is a win.

There’s no point blowing a team off the park (forgetting tiebreakers), as a win by one point is the same as a win by 50.

Paul the Octopus - gone but not forgotten

by insertscreenname on Dec 4, 2010 9:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed....

The Jets haven’t run up the score on anyone this year, and won a lot of close games. I was surprised their differential was that high.

It’s probably because their two losses were very close games, because of the defense.

by James Calvin on Dec 4, 2010 9:41 PM EST up reply actions  

No-one runs up the score.

It is the offense’s job to score points, and the defense’s job to stop them. Unless the head coach walks over and says we’re not going to try and come back, the offense should continue to do what they are paid to do.
If a team loses by 30 points, shake hands, walk off and remember how much it hurt for next time.

Paul the Octopus - gone but not forgotten

by insertscreenname on Dec 4, 2010 9:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Right.

Just as it’s the defense’s job to stop the score.

Nealy every championship team is good on both sides of the ball.

by James Calvin on Dec 4, 2010 10:06 PM EST up reply actions  

The Colts say otherwise

Non Sibi Sed Patriae &I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

Toy Story wears no. 39 100x better than D.D.R

Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."

by NinjaZX6R on Dec 4, 2010 10:14 PM EST up reply actions  

i was talking about 2006

Non Sibi Sed Patriae &I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

Toy Story wears no. 39 100x better than D.D.R

Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."

by NinjaZX6R on Dec 4, 2010 11:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Jets fans are silly

cause they’ve never had an offense

by pats4life on Dec 5, 2010 1:20 AM EST up reply actions  

Wot?

Jets fans can be pretty offensive…

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 5, 2010 1:56 AM EST up reply actions  

2006?

Ok… The Colts had a great offense and defense in 2006. They had the fewest yards allowed in the NFL.

I can’t find any example of a team going all of the way with a bottom 5 defense, maybe you can help me out.

by James Calvin on Dec 5, 2010 10:59 AM EST up reply actions  

They were 23rd in points allowed?

I mean, up until 2006, there was not a Super Bowl winner without a top 10 points allowed defense.

Then:
06 Colts – 23rd
07 Giants – 17th
09 Saints – 20th

So teams are winning Super Bowls with non-elite defenses. As long as the offense is better than how terrible the defense is.

by Richard Hill on Dec 5, 2010 11:19 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

According to Football Outsiders

An elite offence is sustainable long-term, but an elite defence isn’t. The Polian approach to championship-building is the way to go. If you build to have the best offence in the league year in, year out, then sooner or later you’ll run into the sort of injury and fumble luck your defence needs to break average. Colts managed that in ’06.

by PatFanNZ on Dec 5, 2010 2:08 PM EST up reply actions  

But you seem to be going away from what I said.....

115 points in the past 3 games is just that…..so you can’t get away from it. The offense is capable of putting it up….especially to such acclaimed defenses as the Steelers. If that’s not worth anything, I’m not sure what is.

I don't think so. Homey don't play dat.
Creator of the moniker "DDR©"

by AtomicDawg on Dec 4, 2010 8:00 PM EST up reply actions  

They weren't playing a defense coached by a person named Ryan

in the last three games either.

Against the two "Ryan’’ teams they have been outscored 54-28. Very similar defenses too.

I’m just saying you can cherry pick whatever stats make you feel good (like I just did) -that’s fine…. but it doesn’t have any bearing on Monday’s game.

by James Calvin on Dec 4, 2010 9:35 PM EST up reply actions  

There's no cherry picking, it is what it is

Every divisional teams meets twice in a year; the other 14 times is up to them to improve. Thankfully, this game is in the beginning of the month, so there’s still 4 more games after this one. Hopefully, this game will be preparation for both teams for the coming weeks, as I’m sure there will be even tougher matchups by then.

I don't think so. Homey don't play dat.
Creator of the moniker "DDR©"

by AtomicDawg on Dec 4, 2010 10:01 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah, just by a guy named dick lebeau

he sucks at coaching defenses

Dick Butkus, Former Chicago Bears Linebacker
"I wouldn't ever set out to hurt anyone deliberately unless it was important -- like a league game."

by Cameron O on Dec 4, 2010 11:01 PM EST up reply actions  

The Jets won by 14 cause Brady went into stupid mode

stupid mode= when your Hall of Fame quarterback decides to stop following the game plan and lock onto his over-the-hill wide receiver who has more value as a decoy than as a primary receiver

by pats4life on Dec 4, 2010 10:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I watched that game on the DVR yesterday.

He didn’t’ focus on Moss much, but made some bad throws in his direction.

He had a nice TD throw to Moss- half of their scoring that day,

by James Calvin on Dec 4, 2010 10:44 PM EST up reply actions  

8 attempts in the 2nd half....for 0 completions and 2 ints....i call that zeroed it

Non Sibi Sed Patriae &I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

Toy Story wears no. 39 100x better than D.D.R

Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."

by NinjaZX6R on Dec 4, 2010 11:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Jets fans don't know what zeroed-in looks like

cause their quarterbacks suck and spend as much time throwing to the other team as their own

by pats4life on Dec 5, 2010 1:22 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah-

It’s Moss’s fault he made the 2 terrible throws…. Or maybe because Cromartie shut him down with Revis out of the game.

Moss manged to get a hand on one of them, and almost knocked it out of bounds, but it was picked anyway.

The other one was thrown five yards ahead of Moss right to the defender…. a good throw would have been a TD.

And when Tom terrific was hit and fumbled was clearly Moss’s fault for not telling Tommy to watch out for Jason Taylor.

Moss wasn’t in the Browns game, maybe he could have helped them out with a few big plays.

by James Calvin on Dec 5, 2010 11:10 AM EST up reply actions  

Moss wasn't in the other 7 wins they've gotten either

And I count the Miami game also, in which he had 0 catches and was only targeted once.

I don't think so. Homey don't play dat.
Creator of the moniker "DDR©"

by AtomicDawg on Dec 5, 2010 12:31 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

and stone-cold dropped one on his shoulder.

Let’s face it: as good as Moss has been for 12 years, he is a shell of his former self this season. Even when Brady was throwing to him, he was not able to catch the ball consistently.

Paul the Octopus - gone but not forgotten

by insertscreenname on Dec 5, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Yep....with 2 teams....

his total in 12 games is: 27 catches, 375 yards, 5 TD…..not the kind of numbers you want to have in a contract year.

I don't think so. Homey don't play dat.
Creator of the moniker "DDR©"

by AtomicDawg on Dec 5, 2010 8:23 PM EST up reply actions  

sorry 3 teams...sheesh lol

I don't think so. Homey don't play dat.
Creator of the moniker "DDR©"

by AtomicDawg on Dec 5, 2010 8:23 PM EST up reply actions  

what is this based on? Yards per game?

This is a flawed ranking system, unless every team runs the same number of plays on offense in every game. that’s not very likely.

Paul the Octopus - gone but not forgotten

by insertscreenname on Dec 4, 2010 8:15 PM EST up reply actions  

It's the NFL's ranking system

Based on a variety of stats, not just YPG.

by James Calvin on Dec 4, 2010 9:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Go to the Brad Childress method.

50 drunks in a bar. They will all say the Pats have the better offense.

Paul the Octopus - gone but not forgotten

by insertscreenname on Dec 4, 2010 9:20 PM EST up reply actions  

At the beginning of the season, I was resigned to a rebuilding season.

I didn’t think it likely we’d be in the playoffs.

It now seems unlikely that we won’t be in the playoffs DESPITE having a young defense.

Where they’ll carry us seems to change on a week by week basis, but so far the answer is higher and higher.

The good news though, that as good as this year looks, next year looks better. Win, lose, or draw.

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 4, 2010 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

If the young one puts up horrible stats but gets you to 9-2...

It suggests that the next season and the season after will be phenomenal, given that experience usually coincides with improvement.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 5, 2010 1:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Great post

You could probably also include Tate in your average age of Patriot offensive players, bringing down the average a little bit more. Imagine next year if there are 1 or 2 rookie OL starting on the line!

by DrJgopatsgators on Dec 4, 2010 12:51 PM EST reply actions  

The D is alot better than people give them credit for

All you need to do is stop teams when you need to. Sounds simple but it’s true.

If you have a high powered O that puts you ahead, you should go into prevent, cause although it hurts the stats it takes away the quick TD and so limits the chances of losing. Doesn’t mean they are a bad D that is just how they are playing…

They are right up there in Ints, a few more forced fumbles and they would be a great D.

I don’t understand this concept of rebuilding. You should always be refreshing. That’s how the Pats got in trouble from 04-08, they forgot to refresh the team, and became old and slow, and then dumped the vets too quickly and had the horrible year.

As for the Jets, I can’t see how they can compete. It’s going to be Welker, Hernando and Gronk all day up the middle, and without Leonard, there ain’t a damn thing the Jets can do about it. They’ll start dropping the LBs and then its Woodhead and Law firm to close the deal. 31-14!

by buachz on Dec 4, 2010 1:18 PM EST reply actions  

It makes me mad that

Whenever people consider how long Tom’s been in the league, 11 years, they fail to account his virtually non-playing the year he was drafted in 2000, and his virtual non-playing in 2008. If they put all of his career statistics into the 9 full years he’s actually played, his numbers look considerably more impressive than when you average them into 11 years.

Maybe that’s just me.

But on the subject of this article, this was a great read. You’re 100% correct. Because it’s been a decade of pure dominance by the two familiar faces, Brady and Hoodie, the pundits and “analysts” claim that, “the window is closing on the Patriots! Bring out your dead!” one year, and the very next year “my God! Look how young the Patriots are! They’ll never win with a team of rookies and second year guys!” If they actually looked at the numbers and age of the Patriots, they’d be appalled. In a mere year or two, when the defense looks as dominant as they have the potential to look, everyone will crap themselves. Bruschi, Vrabel, Harrison, Seymour, Law, Seau, etc? More like Mayo, Spikes, Chung, defensive end yet to be named (maybe Deaderick if he turns out to be a beast, or a draft pick from next year’s slew of them), McCourty, Cunningham and Meriweather! Not to jump the gun, but dynasty 2.0 doesn’t seem out of reach at ALL with the young defense turning into a more convincingly dominant one, and all of the great building blocks we have on offense.

by BigRussNovak on Dec 4, 2010 3:02 PM EST reply actions  

If that’s all it takes to make you mad, therapy might be a wise choice :>

by quadruple option on Dec 4, 2010 4:14 PM EST up reply actions  

The defense is better than their ranking

the problem is they haven’t shut anyone down for an entire game except for maybe Miami. They play really hard and tight for the first half and either get tired or go into prevent d. Think of all the games they let up in the second half…Cinci, NYJ, SD, Pitt, and even the Cleveland game they really lost in the second half. The only game that was opposite of that was the Ravens game. I believe that if our offense wasn’t quite as good as it is our defense would have a reason and need to play harder/deeper into each game and as a result would have a better ranking. Obviously that doesn’t account for the Cleveland and NYJ games but those losses had as much to do with offensive miscues as it did defensive.

by Oughat on Dec 4, 2010 3:03 PM EST reply actions  

Sooner or later they’ll get it
It’s like the first time you play football or bat against a quick bowler in cricket (fast pitcher for you yanquis). It seems so incredibly fast, but then one play, one game (might not be the second game, might be the fourth), it slows down. It’ll happen for the Patriots.

by quadruple option on Dec 4, 2010 4:15 PM EST up reply actions  

isn't the quick bowler called a pacer bowler.....also there is the spin bowler, off spin bowler and some other pitch (can't remember(

Non Sibi Sed Patriae &I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

Toy Story wears no. 39 100x better than D.D.R

Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."

by NinjaZX6R on Dec 4, 2010 4:46 PM EST up reply actions  

pace bowler**

Non Sibi Sed Patriae &I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

Toy Story wears no. 39 100x better than D.D.R

Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."

by NinjaZX6R on Dec 4, 2010 4:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Haha, the terminology of cricket

Fast bowler
Fast medium bowler
Medium fast bowler
Medium bowler
(those all bowl “seam up” that is they don’t try to impart sideways revolutions on the ball)

Then those who do.. offspin, leg spin. a left arm legspinner is called a ‘chinaman’, a right arm offspinner is just called that but a left arm offspinner is called ‘orthodox’. legbreak, legcutter… etc…

Pace bowler is used too. Quick bowler too. ""They used the quicks."

Then the field positions… short leg, silly point, backwards short leg, bat pad, short cover, silly cover, flip, fly slip, third man, leg gully, mid on, long on, cover, cover point, point, backward point, gully, deep point… haha. it’s a crazy game.

by quadruple option on Dec 4, 2010 7:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't talk to me about cricket.

I’ve spent the last two days standing out in the sun in Adelaide watching Australia suck and England dominate.

Paul the Octopus - gone but not forgotten

by insertscreenname on Dec 4, 2010 8:19 PM EST up reply actions  

cricket???

dont they also have lunch breaks and tea breaks or something like that. wouldnt exactly fly in u.s.

metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?

by dabu7 on Dec 4, 2010 8:26 PM EST up reply actions  

TV timeouts and stopping after every play e.g. NFL wouldn’t fly in NZ :P

by quadruple option on Dec 4, 2010 8:43 PM EST up reply actions  

it's one hour of breaks to 6 hours of play per day

that’s comparatively less than the average NFL game: take a 60 minute game and stretch it over 3 hours

Paul the Octopus - gone but not forgotten

by insertscreenname on Dec 4, 2010 9:08 PM EST up reply actions  

i thought the English kinda suck @ their own game?

Non Sibi Sed Patriae &I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

Toy Story wears no. 39 100x better than D.D.R

Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."

by NinjaZX6R on Dec 4, 2010 8:57 PM EST up reply actions  

They used to be awful

For about 15 years, Australia had the best batsmen and the best bowlers in the world, and didn’t lose too many games. Since the retirements 3-4 years ago, Australia has struggled in comparison to previous success, while some of the other countries have caught up (India, England)

Paul the Octopus - gone but not forgotten

by insertscreenname on Dec 4, 2010 9:12 PM EST up reply actions  

i still assumed that the Aussies were still dominating cricket...guess not

Non Sibi Sed Patriae &I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

Toy Story wears no. 39 100x better than D.D.R

Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."

by NinjaZX6R on Dec 4, 2010 10:15 PM EST up reply actions  

And for my Aussie friend the Kiwis also hold both the league world cup AND the four nations cup!

by quadruple option on Dec 4, 2010 11:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't care about rugby.

I’m not on the east coast.

Paul the Octopus - gone but not forgotten

by insertscreenname on Dec 5, 2010 12:57 AM EST up reply actions  

How do the two relate?

The best rugby in America is played out west.

As Mr. Sloan always says, there is no "I" in team, but there is an "I" in pie. And there's an "I" in meat pie. Anagram of meat is team... I don't know what he's talking about. --Shaun of the Dead

by JohnHannahRules on Dec 5, 2010 10:41 AM EST up reply actions  

i think he is talking about Australia's West coast...he is an Aussie

Non Sibi Sed Patriae &I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

Toy Story wears no. 39 100x better than D.D.R

Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."

by NinjaZX6R on Dec 5, 2010 1:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Damned foreigners...

Oh. Wait.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 5, 2010 2:34 PM EST up reply actions  

hahaha.

Non Sibi Sed Patriae &I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

Toy Story wears no. 39 100x better than D.D.R

Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."

by NinjaZX6R on Dec 5, 2010 3:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm losing track of all the aliens on this board.

As Mr. Sloan always says, there is no "I" in team, but there is an "I" in pie. And there's an "I" in meat pie. Anagram of meat is team... I don't know what he's talking about. --Shaun of the Dead

by JohnHannahRules on Dec 5, 2010 6:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Terrestrial or otherwise?

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 5, 2010 7:12 PM EST up reply actions  

same here lol

kinda wish they would put their countries initials on their sigs

Non Sibi Sed Patriae &I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

Toy Story wears no. 39 100x better than D.D.R

Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."

by NinjaZX6R on Dec 5, 2010 8:32 PM EST up reply actions  

or planets.

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 5, 2010 8:58 PM EST up reply actions  

England also have the advantage

of importing South Africans to play for them :)

by PatFanNZ on Dec 5, 2010 2:11 PM EST up reply actions  

i actually think cricket is more entertaining than baseball...just the 20 over games...screw the test games...seriously...5 days to play a game WTF??

Non Sibi Sed Patriae &I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

Toy Story wears no. 39 100x better than D.D.R

Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."

by NinjaZX6R on Dec 4, 2010 8:59 PM EST up reply actions  

It's the ability to succeed regardless of conditions.

On the first day, the pitch is generally over-watered to ensure it will last the 5 days. this means that for the first session, bowling is easier than batting, and less than 3 wickets for about 80 is average. Later on day 1 through to early day 3, batting is easy: the ball is doing what the batsmen expect, and both sides should have batted once by the end of day 3. When the 3rd innings commences, the pitch is starting to deteriorate, and the ball may start to do something: keep lower than expected after bouncing, move sideways more than expected, and this gets even more pronounced on day 5. This is why the team that wins the toss generally bats first: they want to be bowling last, on day 5 with the worst conditions for batting.

Paul the Octopus - gone but not forgotten

by insertscreenname on Dec 4, 2010 9:32 PM EST up reply actions  

But no-one goes to a test match to watch.

It’s just an excuse to drink over-priced beer out of under-sized plastic cups while dressed up as something and getting burnt to a nice healthy lobster colour.
At least in Australia.

Paul the Octopus - gone but not forgotten

by insertscreenname on Dec 4, 2010 9:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Used to be the case but for the last 15 years the pitches have become so flat and glued together there’s seldom any seam OR spin. No wonder bowlers used anything they could to generate swing.

Bring back uncovered pitches!

by quadruple option on Dec 4, 2010 11:59 PM EST up reply actions  

or Warnie.

Paul the Octopus - gone but not forgotten

by insertscreenname on Dec 5, 2010 12:57 AM EST up reply actions  

20 overs...not over

Non Sibi Sed Patriae &I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

Toy Story wears no. 39 100x better than D.D.R

Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."

by NinjaZX6R on Dec 4, 2010 10:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Cricket should be perfect for American audiences
Every 5 minutes there’s an over break = 30 seconds for ads

by quadruple option on Dec 5, 2010 12:00 AM EST up reply actions  

plus for scoring

Non Sibi Sed Patriae &I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

Toy Story wears no. 39 100x better than D.D.R

Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."

by NinjaZX6R on Dec 5, 2010 12:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Will stick with just baseball

After all, they take a break after every pitch

by Chari on Dec 5, 2010 1:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I can't wait to see what happens monday night

     Just thinking about the first game – no Cunningham, Chung wasn’t playing like the whirling dervish he is now, no Deaderick, Mccourty with more experience, even Arrington, though some people don’t like him, he has gained a lot more experience, same with Spikes. And let’s not forget Fletcher and Love. Or even Ron Brace. None of these guys played or were basically seeing their second game of real NFL action, except for Chung. Now, they have spent over half a season playing together, learning the system, playing some high caliber teams. (There’s a good stat, Pats 5-1 against winning teams, Jets 2-2). Yeah the stats don’t bear it out, but there’s no doubt that 20-40% of those stats are from the prevent situations, when we had big leads. Monday will be a big test, and the Jets will have some wrinkles to throw at us, and i can’t wait to see how we respond. They will score some points in this game. We’re not gonna pitch out first shutout in this one. My biggest thing in this game is, stop the run and give Brady some time, and we will win. Tall order, but doable.

by furiousd on Dec 4, 2010 5:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Good stuff, as per usual JHR

I think come Monday evening, at 8:30 EST, as cliche’d as this sounds, IMHO, none of this will be on the minds of players on either side (I would hope). What will matter, is that both teams are at pretty much the same stalemate they were when they first met….still finding their way, still attempting to gel with the players they had. Which team has accomplished this in a much faster rate; that will determine the winner.

I don't think so. Homey don't play dat.
Creator of the moniker "DDR©"

by AtomicDawg on Dec 4, 2010 3:09 PM EST reply actions  

None of any of it matters.

It’s just grist for the mill — and your entertainment.

As Mr. Sloan always says, there is no "I" in team, but there is an "I" in pie. And there's an "I" in meat pie. Anagram of meat is team... I don't know what he's talking about. --Shaun of the Dead

by JohnHannahRules on Dec 5, 2010 10:43 AM EST up reply actions  

As long as Pat Chung isn't covering Dustin keller

I will be happy. That man can hit but he sure can’t cover

by pats4life on Dec 4, 2010 7:18 PM EST reply actions  

true...he was a long snapper for a while

Non Sibi Sed Patriae &I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

Toy Story wears no. 39 100x better than D.D.R

Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."

by NinjaZX6R on Dec 4, 2010 9:00 PM EST up reply actions  

while its true that the pats are in fact slightly younger (though the jets are still very young by league standards) its still the upstart jets vs reigning pats. other than 2 yrs ago when brady was hurt, the pats have been the class of the division for roughly 10 yrs. this is really the first legitimate challenge to the status quo since brady took over. for that reason alone it’s huge. although the pats have played huge playoff gms and super bowls and big yearly reg season gms against the colts and chargers they havent had a division rivalry gm this big in a really long time. for te jets this is quite possibly their biggest reg season gm ever(i’m 21 and other than possibly the afc championship gm last yr i dont remember ever anticipating a gm this much) add in the fact of how the jets always are looking for validation in the medias eyes (especially following their recent lackluster wins). couple that w/ the HUGE playoff implications and mnf and this is in fact the gm of the yr

metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?

by dabu7 on Dec 4, 2010 8:08 PM EST reply actions  

I'd quit worrying about what the mediots think.

Teams don’t need their validation. In fact, a strong Jets team has taken much of the spotlight from the Pats. Quite refreshing, really.

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 4, 2010 8:25 PM EST up reply actions  

i personally dont care what the media thinks

theyre all hating on the jets lately which is perfectly fine. that being said you know how rex rolls and he prob does care. the jets needing validation is similar to how my mets always need validation against the yankees. is it monday yet????

metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?

by dabu7 on Dec 4, 2010 8:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Unfortunately, no!

I am so sick of talking about this damn game!

They need to win in between the whites, and all this jabbering won’t change that.

Who do you think wins the Steelers-Ravens slugfest?

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 4, 2010 8:39 PM EST up reply actions  

unfortunately the ravens

i have a whole bunch of huge ravens fans friends and i’d rather them lose by a blowout. whats the under/over on how many players get hurt in that gm?

metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?

by dabu7 on Dec 4, 2010 8:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't know.

They’ll use a slightly different system when checking to see if the player is injured:

Doc: “Ok, how many fingers am I holding up?” (Holds up three fingers)

Player: “Chicken?”

Tomlin: “Well, chicken is poultry, and poultry rhymes with three, in fact that last part -try sounds like tree, which is practically three minus that ‘h’ which makes almost no sound at all. I think he’s good to go!”

Doc: (Pocketing the bonus check.) “Yep, passed the test with flying colors.”

Player: “Squash? Gravel? Lap Bands? Rifle? ….”

Tomlin: “Shut up and play some ball, Ben.”

Ben: “Grizzlies? Women’s Room? Panties? ….”

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 4, 2010 9:51 PM EST up reply actions  

maybe a knock to the head would fix all his problems.

just like a frontal lobotomy.

Paul the Octopus - gone but not forgotten

by insertscreenname on Dec 4, 2010 9:54 PM EST up reply actions  

He sounded like he was back to normal there at the end.

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 4, 2010 10:03 PM EST up reply actions  

both teams have really good futures ahead

as pointed out the pats have really young talent. the jets, although they do have a few elder statesmen (ellis, woody, tomlinson, t-rich, taylor) are really a young team at the core. the core is essentially sanchez, greene, keller, holmes, edwards, mangold, brick, harris, revis and cro (assuming they can keep them all) avg experience their is 4.1 yrs

metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?

by dabu7 on Dec 4, 2010 8:38 PM EST reply actions  

there

metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?

by dabu7 on Dec 4, 2010 8:38 PM EST reply actions  

sorry

i had written “their” it shouldve been “there”. where’s spellcheck when you nee it

metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?

by dabu7 on Dec 4, 2010 8:40 PM EST up reply actions  

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