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Patriots (mock) draft needs. is DE/OLB the priority?

I'll admit to a little Search Engine Optimization (SEO) craftiness with this title.  It appears that if I put mock and draft in the title, thousands of web hits will ensue.  We've hashed this over for weeks now and y'all have been great with your predictions, prognostications, and educated guesses (I think all those mean the same, but might as well cover all bases).

At any rate, it's this blogger's opinion, as it was last season, that we desperately need a pass rusher.  Remember the good old days when Mike "Mr. Everyting" Vrabel was in everyone's face?  It's also this blogger's opinion that it'll be tougher than usual to get the guy we want.  Why?  Approximately 50% of the league is now utilizing a 3-4 defensive scheme, says Patriots Director of Player Personnel Nick Caserio:

One of the reasons those ideals are so hard to find these days — no matter the body type — is that more and more teams are playing a 3-4 defense these days. Caserio estimated that "half the league is employing some 3-4 type of configuration."

"It is becoming more challenging," he said, "because there are more teams that are essentially looking at the same pool of players, so it kind of limits your opportunities, because you realize you’re really competing really with the rest of the league on that front."

Star-divide

Caserio goes on to discuss what might be a prototypical OLB, but other body types that could fit, as long as the player is a good rusher:

"I think that’s an interesting point, because the reality is that pool of players, the 6-4, 260-pound guys that run 4.6, there's not many of them," Caserio said. "Some of the small guys … like, I think Dumervil is a great example. A 5-11, 260-pound guy … maybe he's not the prototypical outside linebacker type, but he can rush the passer.

"There’s different ways to skin a cat. You’re looking for this ideal. The reality is that sometimes that ideal is hard to find."

Dwight Freeney, at 6-1 268 lbs, is not that tall.  I know, he's a DE, but his job is almost always generating pressure.  Part of the issue I have with "classic" OLBs in a 3-4 alignment is that they can be asked to do so many things: pass rush, hang back in coverage, tackle.  What if we simply dedicated a guy to getting in the quarterback's face?  Technically, that could be considered a 4-3 alignment, but who cares what it's called.  IMO, our 2008-2009 defense looked so soft on the pass rush that we were ranked 25th in sacks.  Yes, I know good pass rushing is also about RUSHING the quarterback and not just sacks, but you probably catch my drift; we were anemic at getting to the QB.

Just to summarize, it is my belief that we sorely need a premier pass rusher, be it DE, OLB, or something in between.  I don't care what the label is.  Let's get someone who will plant himself in the backfield on a regular basis and make quarterbacks nervous.  Bill, are you listening?  Take the shackles off of all the other duties you typically heap on an OLB and let him loose.  Thanks.

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Would be nice to have a pass rush, though I don't think 4-3 or a dedicated player is the answer

I agree more consistent pressure is needed, badly, though I’d like to keep it in the 3-4.
The beauty of the 3-4 is it allows great disguise and flexibility in how/where you rush. Also varies coverages better.

Ideally you get a OLB/DE who does have the size to line up on the line on 3rd down and get after the QB, but can play out of the 2 point on 1st and 2nd, create great options.

These guys aren’t too hard to get, though the Pats can be picky.
Vrabel was a do everything guy, drop back, rush, play the run.
The great Elephant – big Wille McGinest aplayed multiple ways
The great edge rushers in pittsburgh also drop back into coverages and are dynamic OLBs.

You don’t necessarily need a DE and a 4-3 to get after the QB, what you do need is greater size and skill at LB.

I really like Kindle at 22…perhaps later if the draft allows.

by JonnyNYC on Mar 2, 2010 4:06 PM EST reply actions  

Or you need even greater size on the D-line

Having a trio of two-block-eating D-linemen means that there’s a mismatch automatically – 5 O linemen against 3 guys who demand double-teams each means there’s someone who’s outmatched trying to keep a 300lber off their QB. Add in a versatile LB or two, and that means somebody ought to get a fairly clear shot at the QB. Last year, Warren and Green weren’t quite at that level – other teams could handle them one-on-one. It was most readily apparent when Wilfork was pushed outside to RE to keep Jake Long conscious – Long could handle Green single-handedly. Upgrade RE and you could skate by with so-so linebackers.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Mar 2, 2010 6:18 PM EST up reply actions  

That's a good point, though I'm not sure it's size

This is probably where Seymour was missed most. I don’t think it was his size that was the difference as it was he’s experience and history as an All Pro.

When he was moved, that completely changed how teams set up their blocking assignments vs the Pats DL. No Seymour made it easier to focus on Wilfork and Warren, who previously didn’t receive as much attention due to Richie. This also suggests how Mike Wright had such a successful year – he became the forgotten or least accounted for DL.

I think from what it seems you are thinking and what I’m thinking, Jared Odrick would be a nice guy to find. And if they see Sergio Kindle sliding in the 2nd round – grab him too. Be a great way to start the draft

by JonnyNYC on Mar 3, 2010 9:27 AM EST up reply actions  

Well, size + penetration + strength + acceleration

You need a bigger guy who has the right kind of frame – he can’t be a big blob, he has to be able to be big enough to handle a double team, yet athletic enough to breach the pocket (or at least be a threat to). The added benefit of having such a big, athletic guy is they’re harder to hurt – a 6’6 300lber is always going to be harder to skittle than a 6’2 260lb guy.

I’m definitely looking at Odrick first – that kind of athleticism and size doesn’t happen in the lower rounds. Kindle seems to me to be more and more like a Vernon Gholston – reports from the Combine say he’s inflexible in general, only good in a forward movement (ie he’s more like a pass-rushing 4-3 DE than a 3-4 OLB who can flex into coverage), and that his lower body control was awful. He looks like, and I quote, “a one trick pony”. Not exactly an ideal fit for a 3-4 that lives on disguises and versatility rather than all-out blitzing.

There seem to be quite a few decent-to-good pass-rushers being projected as solid second-rounders – guys who would otherwise have been first-rounders but for the massive influx of underclassmen. That suggests a DE first, OLB second.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Mar 3, 2010 4:23 PM EST up reply actions  

The pass rush sucked in 2008 as well.

Caserio’s point then was that pass coverage is part of pass rush.

Vrabel was coming off a 12.5 sack year in 2007, yet only had 4 in 2008. What happened? Adalius Thomas broke his arm and was out for 7 games (no bookend pass rusher, so Mike was doubled often). Deltha O’Neal started at cornerback. Holey secondary Batman, everyone’s open.

The answer last year was to continue patching up the secondary. The secondary is better now (though far from perfect), so grabbing a pass rusher makes some sense. After all, Bill shopped all the garage sales last year for pass rushers and Banta-Cain was the best we got.

DE, while not primarily the pass rusher in the 3-4 may be the way go first, though. Sir Richard was a commanding presence on the line – commanding double teams that is. Mr. Green, well not so much. With more of the big fellows trying to stop our monster DE, the little OLB’s might find the QB.

I think we need to get both. DE with the higher pick and OLB where it makes sense.

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Mar 2, 2010 4:36 PM EST reply actions  

Sir Richard?

I call him King Richard

Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.....159 mph is my top speed..will top that this spring
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
(formerly mathew.40)

by NinjaZX6R on Mar 2, 2010 9:00 PM EST up reply actions  

This is what I get

For responding before reading all posts. 100% agree.

by JonnyNYC on Mar 3, 2010 9:28 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree with you guys ...

DE and OLB with the first two picks for the Pats would be ideal. Kindle if he’s around at 22, and one of the talented DEs at 44, like Odrick or one of the many others.

Then go for 2 WRs at 48 and 53, and the rest of the picks can be O line back ups, DBs, and a TE if there are any good ones left in the 4th round. If not, one of the other DEs who has had some praise the last month or so. I think we look at a new starting RB next season with Oakland’s traded pick in the 1st round.

I’m hoping Tyrone McKenzie will be good enough to start along side Mayo. Maybe Crable can keep his leg and groin muscles together long enough to participate in the season, Roll the dice there.

by Ozstryker on Mar 2, 2010 4:58 PM EST reply actions  

It'd be nice if Crable actually made it to the regular season for a change.

Some post-season time would be icing on the cake.

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Mar 2, 2010 5:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I highly doubt Odrick will drop that far

If anything, I’d imagine Odrick going at 22 and Kindle being the guy who might slide to the 40s – Kindle looks a little like Vernon Gholston, which might put teams off, and Odrick seems to have better intangibles, which ought to make him look a better candidate after all those interviews at the Combine.

I like the idea of going after a TE in the 4th or so (and traditionally, so does Hoodie). I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see a David Thomas or Garrett Mills-type pick in the 4th round.

McKenzie had the Pats organisation raving; he ought to contribute when he’s healthy. Crable… has all the physicals, and in the very short preseason spell he had, he looked good – pressure on the QB and all that. Maybe someone can keep him in a rubber-ball-suit until then?

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Mar 2, 2010 6:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Kindle isn't Gholston, but he's not a sure thing either

Kindle has been pretty solid for most of his career @ Texas. Not spectacular but not in the Gholston category of meteoric rise during his senior season.

Which I guess could also be noted by he’s being a late 1st to mid 2nd level pick to most of us.

Consistent, with size.

by JonnyNYC on Mar 3, 2010 9:30 AM EST up reply actions  

His Combine reports were pretty shabby

He’s “inflexible in the lower body”, doesn’t show coverage-type instincts, seems to only have speed-rushing ability (no other pass-rush moves worth mentioning) due to his awful leg and waist control, and is being called out for appearing to be a “one trick pony”.

That all sounds very Gholston-ish to me, albeit without the workout warrior stats. His football nous just doesn’t seem to be there.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Mar 3, 2010 4:25 PM EST up reply actions  

What are you guys worried about?

Obviously, we’re going to draft Ndamukong Suh. Have you guys heard of him? I think he’ll be available — nobody knows how good he is but the Hoodie. All our problems are over!!

As Mr. Sloan always says, there is no "I" in team, but there is an "I" in pie. And there's an "I" in meat pie. Anagram of meat is team... I don't know what he's talking about. --Shaun of the Dead

by JohnHannahRules on Mar 2, 2010 8:38 PM EST reply actions  

Plus there's no way he falls to the other teams that need a NT

Cuz they is dum lolololol

2009 NY Phin PhansFantasy League Champion
2009 Best Regular Season Record in NYPPL.
2010 The Jim Mandich NewsFlash Award Winner.

by Patssuck456 on Mar 2, 2010 11:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Brandon Graham from Michigan would be perfect for the Pats at #22

6’1" 270lbs. Plays alot like Dwight Freeney. Non-stop motor and great work ethic.

In fact, I peg him as the next Dwight Freeney in the NFL.

Either him or Jerry Hughes from TCU.

by MyronBales on Mar 3, 2010 1:52 AM EST reply actions  

I like that choice

I may be in the minority, but I’m all for a pure pass rusher. I think pressure is the key in this pass happy version of the NFL and teams that dedicate resources do better.

Blogger at SBNation's Patriots blog, Pats Pulpit

by MaPatsFan on Mar 3, 2010 7:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Graham is too small, so is Hughes

Either of those guys are great in a 4-3 – but not for the Pats

by JonnyNYC on Mar 3, 2010 9:31 AM EST up reply actions  

Word is one of the only pass rushers available

with the height BB looks for is Jason Pierre-Paul, a junior out of South Florida. Looks like a bit of a gamble though.

Keep the faith!

by Marima on Mar 3, 2010 10:52 AM EST up reply actions  

yeah i watched his combine

pretty impressive

Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.....159 mph is my top speed..will top that this spring
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
(formerly mathew.40)

by NinjaZX6R on Mar 3, 2010 2:53 PM EST up reply actions  

6'1 and 270lbs is very small

The prototype Hoodie OLB is 6’5 and around that weight. The prototype DE is around 6’6 and 300lbs. He’s a tweener, and a short one at that. Dwight Freeney is great, yes, but he’s clearly a 4-3 DE, and nothing else.

If you’re looking for a team that might draft him, you might actually be talking about the Colts themselves. They obviously need a third DE – Freeney gets hurt before the Superbowl and their pass rush disappears completely.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Mar 3, 2010 4:27 PM EST up reply actions  

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