O Logan!
by Chad Henne is Your New Bicycle on Jun 16, 2010 10:47 AM EDT
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PrintWell then, I think I might need to find a new favorite Patriot. At the moment, it would appear Mankins' days in New England are over (whether he's traded or just sits the season out in Mr. Kraft's dunce corner at Patriot Place). So, hypothetically, where does this leave the Patriot offensive line? Reeling? With new opportunities?
Let's cut right to the chase—this hurts New England's offense. Mankins is easily, in my opinion, the best lineman on the team. ProFootballFocus.com, one of my favorite statistic-related websites out there, had Mankins pegged as the 6th best guard in the NFL in 2009, 1st in 2008, and 1st in 2007. I think Vollmer may claim this title in the coming years, but for the time being, Mankins would be big loss. Additionally, number 70 provides the line with a presence of veteran leadership (not to mention, a truly fantastic beard or beautiful handlebar mustache) that the team will be looking for while they attempt to rebuild along the front in the coming years. For a team with an already foggy rushing situation, it would hurt to lose a road grader of Mankins' caliber. I'm positive defensive linemen around the division are rejoicing at the idea of a sans-Mankins Patriot team.
Personnel wise, the absence of Mankins could result in an interesting shuffle of players along the offensive line. Now, I cannot presume to have insider knowledge as to the thinking of Dante Scarnecchia or Bill Belichick, but if it were up to me, here's how I'd line up the Patriot's prized bulls:
LT - Matt Light
LG - Nick Kaczur
C - Dan Koppen
RG - Stephen Neal
RT - Sebastian Vollmer
The biggest change here is for Nick Kaczur, who shifts from his home at right tackle over to left guard. It's a different position on a different side of the line, but I think at this stage of his career, Kaczur may be well served with a switch to guard. This move would allow the Patriots to more effectively "hide" Kaczur's average-to-below-average pass blocking abilities, while also getting Sebastian Vollmer regular starts—doubleplusgood. As noted by Mike Reiss earlier today (thanks Marima), the Patriots appear to be in agreement, with Kaczur working at left guard has he has done at times throughout Mankins' absence from the team this offseason.
From a long term perspective, I think it's now a foregone conclusion that New England will use one or more of their upcoming early round draft picks to restock along the offensive line. Belichick has proven particularly adept at recognizing future studs in those positions, so I see no reason why trend wouldn't continue in 2011 and 2012 given the team's prime selections. Looking at young talent already on the current roster, Dan Connolly immediately jumps out to me as a guy who could eventually step into a starting role (perhaps even this year) given his experience from 2009. Regardless of what the actual names turn out to be, excellent coaching and talent evaluation will help to make the replacement process of Mankins, as well as the Patriots' other aging linemen, progress relatively smoothly.
In sum, losing Mankins would be a certain downgrade from a talent, experience, and leadership stand point, but considering he plays guard, it's not impossible or even improbable for New England to salvage the situation, both in 2010 and moving forward into the decade.
The views expressed in these FanPosts are not necessarily those of the writers or SBNation.
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I really wasn't sure what tense to address the Mankins situation with.
I mean, he’s not gone from the team, but it seems pretty likely that he will be at this point. If you notice my tense usage being sporadic, let me know and I’ll edit my text.
"To borrow a simile from the football field, we believe that men must play fair, but that there must be no shirking, and that the success can only come to the player who hits the line hard." — Theodore Roosevelt
by Chad Henne is Your New Bicycle on Jun 15, 2010 10:12 PM EDT reply actions
The only thing I worry about
is that Mankins is, like a complete idiot, hurting his trade value TREMENDOUSLY by whining at 5 years/$35 million. If he were complaining for good reason, like the tender offer, then I’d understand. But that amount is ridiculous to be whining about and most teams with salary cap issues (not this year but you have to plan ahead just in case) will not trade so that takes out the Raiders, Redskins and Steelers. Many other teams would be afraid to take that contract on just as it is, much less pay him whatever he IS demanding.
Absolutely
And if we didn’t own the Raiders’ #1 pick next year, I’d say strap a rocket to his ass, show the Raiders his 40 time is under 2 seconds, and trade him to them anyway.
But if this is the way it has to be, I think trading him to a crappy team would serve him right. Maybe Kansas City would take him, though I think they’re pretty set at guard and already not thrilled with the bloated salaries on their O-line. Maybe Detroit would take him. Maybe Tampa Bay. Maybe St. Louis.
I don’t know, I’m grasping at straws. But anyone offensive lineman who says it’s an insult to be offered “only” $7M/year has suffered a few too many blows to the head.
Nice writeup.
This move would allow the Patriots to more effectively “hide” Kaczur’s average-to-below-average pass blocking abilities
And that was hilarious.
Could Wes Welker be your new favorite Patriot, or would he just be a slap in the face that the Dolphins missed out on a great WR? Just a question…
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jun 15, 2010 10:37 PM EDT reply actions
No, that's strictly out of the question.
It’s probably going to be the Amazing Zoltan.
"To borrow a simile from the football field, we believe that men must play fair, but that there must be no shirking, and that the success can only come to the player who hits the line hard." — Theodore Roosevelt
by Chad Henne is Your New Bicycle on Jun 15, 2010 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Zoltan Mesko...
If only you had NOT been a Wolverine…
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jun 15, 2010 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions
You can't hate on Michigan now
That’s only appropriate when they actually have a decent team.
I have a good friend from grad school at UW whose parents went to Michigan in the ’60s. They apparently used to joke that if you wanted a football team, you went to Michigan State, but if you wanted a good education, you went to Michigan. My friend turned it around on them — if you want a football team, you go to Wisconsin, but if you want a good education, you still go to Wisconsin.
Aussie rules player!
It’s basically American football, but instead of passing it forward with your hands, you do it with punts. Sav Rocca and Ben Graham are both decent NFL punters with Aussie Rules backgrounds, so the conversion isn’t impossible.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Jun 16, 2010 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Mankins is a beast
but in my mind, it’s “Next man up” and keep playing football.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Jun 16, 2010 6:26 AM EDT reply actions
That theory certainly applied in 2008...
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Jun 16, 2010 6:56 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree
I love Mankins the player-beast, I’m not too thrilled about Mankins the pouter.
Keep the faith!
I lost a lot of respect for logan.
We dont know the whole story we dont know all the details and we are forced to take sides and make snap judgements on bits and pieces of the story. mankins should have just said i am not happy with the offer and i want to be traded. i do feel for him cause he should be a free agent right now and cause of the cba thing he got porked amongst other players. but still if its true and i think it is if the pats offered 5 and 35 million i think thats more then fair offer nothing to act all offended about thats for sure. i just dont get it and knowing mankins and hearing what bruschi said i dont think this is going to end good at all.
Agreed with one caveat
If it’s 5/$35M with reasonable guarantees, it’s all on Logan. If it’s 5/$35M with $20M in the last two years of the deal, or if it’s like what the Biplanes reportedly offered Revis ($0 guaranteed), then we’d better all hope karma doesn’t exist because Brady, Moss, Welker, Wilfork, the entire defensive backfield, and Vollmer will all suffer freak injuries in the preseason that will keep them out all year.
Knowing what we know about Kraft, though, I’d bet it’s 5/$35M with reasonable guarantees.
Right, we still don't know the contract.
After opening his yap and making himself look bad, the best thing Mankins could do now is reveal details about the offer.
So far he’s only said he doesn’t like it because it is 20% less than Evans. Ok, that doesn’t win me. He is probably 20% less the guard that Evans is right now.
No guarantees, back loaded contract, extension vs new deal, tacked on to the back of the tender, sacrifices his first born to Hoodie, etc. What is it that makes it a bad deal? What it is that makes it look like he is not being respected?
The only way he is going to win in the court of public opinion is to open his yap again and tell us.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Jun 16, 2010 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
That's my real beef with Mankins' public handling of his displeasure
It’s not right to publicly call the owner of the team a liar and leave it at that. Either publicly give the whole story or don’t say anything at all. Because you’re right, we don’t know the details of the contract offer or what was promised or alluded to.
Keep the faith!
Logan doesn't speak out much, so I tend to think his conversation was not planned.
I don’t take Logan as a guy who’s trying to win public opinion or planned to speak in order to get the public on his side.
He seems more like a guy who’s PO’d and feels he’s getting the run around from people he thought were going to compensate him well.
Whether or not is anger is warranted, I don’t know and doubt we ever will. To me he’s earned enough respect in how he’s played and handled himself so far in NE to not get too pissed about these comments.
Thinking I’d be a FA and cashing in one year, then having that taken away from me and not getting a choice when I thought I had one – that’d get me all angried up also.
In general it’s never good to bite the hand that feeds you, but in this business I fully believe everyone’s got thick enough skin to get past this if they want too.
Yes they can get past it.
Matt Light refered to Kraft as LRC, standing for Lower Right Corner – where his signature goes on the checks.
That’s not a good guy to piss off in an organization when Mankins has MUCH more to lose than the Patriots. If he continues without signing, he is not a payroll hit and doesn’t count against the 53. The status quo doesn’t really hurt the Patriots at all. I don’t see any way he helped his cause by opening his mouth. Ok, it might have just been an emotional outburst, fair enough, but at the end of the day, his situation hasn’t improved and mat have gotten worse.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Jun 16, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Very True. That's part of what is not making me angry
This wasn’t the case of a guy trying to use the media or public opinion to get what he wants.
Really just sounds like a simple man who is PO’d and made Mike Reiss’s day by responding to his Qs.
I feel like this is heading toward an Asante Samuel 1yr contract type deal. Pats don’t have to do that, but I think they’ll want him around vs trading him if the can do it.
Did some quick back-of-the-envelope calculations and if the Patriots trade Mankins
the team’s facial hair will drop by 43%. Ok there may be a downside to this for the Pats.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Jun 16, 2010 11:04 AM EDT reply actions
Just a quick reminder:
2003 no Mankins: 32 sacks 527 pass attemps
2004 no Mankins: 26 sacks 474 PA
2005 with Mankins 26 sacks 530 PA
2005 w. Mankins 26 sacks 516 PA
2007 w. Mankins 21 sacks 578 PA
2008 w. Mankins 47 sacks 519 PA
2009 w Mankins 16 sacks 565 PA
So as far of pass blocking: it looks like to me a lot more about T. Brady than anybody else.
by frogfromthemud on Jun 16, 2010 11:16 AM EDT reply actions
we can replace mankins no one is bigger then the team
mankins is a road grader as a run blocker he is ok as a pass blocker. well as a passing team kazcur can and will get the job done.
by brady12mvp3 on Jun 16, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
There's not much question he's the best OL on the team to me
I guess the Q is what is that worth?
Think Tom Brady is signing, “sign my guy before you get to me?” I don’t.
As good as he is, OL is a very replaceable position unless you are talking about the once a decade type LT, Ogden, Pace, Hannah, etc
Well said.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Jun 16, 2010 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
thats interesting…
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by bestbostonsports on Jun 16, 2010 12:22 PM EDT reply actions
PATS move on w/ or w/o Mankins
If BB gets a 1st round or 2nd round draft pick [more likely] from a non playoff team for Mankins, I’ll be very satisifed. Mankin’s comments leave me concerned: very concerned. They raise a red flag for me regarding his locker room presence and his overall attitude. We just spent the off season stock piling great attitude veterans and rookies.
I feel it’s time to move on without Mankins provided BB can get a desired draft pick.
I could only be swayed from this opinion IF IF IF Mankins made a public comment correcting his attack on Kraft and the PAT’s organization. I doubt that will happen because I don’t think the Krafts and the BB regime allow for this type of corrected statement. If they do, and he does make a sincere, positive statement, I’m happy with his return.
I think its a statement that's easy enough to make
he’s a one time offender in the public record area. If he signs a deal and offers an explanation/apology with Mr. Kraft right next to him – this becomes a non-issue in zero seconds flat.
True that
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Jun 16, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Tedy Bruschi had some interesting things to say about the situation on NFL Live:
“This could get ugly,” Bruschi said. "We’re not talking about a guy that sends out mixed messages through the media. We’re talking about a man that is the epitome of what the Patriot Way is: Keep your mouth shut and do your job. That’s exactly what he’s done for the past five years and has turned himself into one of the best guards in the NFL. He deserves to be paid accordingly.
“But that’s not the only issue here. Logan doesn’t say much. So when he speaks, he means it. And when he talks about keeping your word and how you treat people, these are strong words from a strong-minded man. I don’t anticipate seeing Logan Mankins in a Patriot uniform anytime soon.”
Bruschi would be the correct media guy to listen to in this situation, and he appears to think there’s some deep seated issues here.
"To borrow a simile from the football field, we believe that men must play fair, but that there must be no shirking, and that the success can only come to the player who hits the line hard." — Theodore Roosevelt
by Chad Henne is Your New Bicycle on Jun 16, 2010 4:27 PM EDT reply actions
“one of the best guards in the NFL. He deserves to be paid accordingly.”
It seems Bruschi didn’t closely read Mankins own words or pay attention that he was offered money that the best guards will get.
Bruschi may be too compromised by his closeness to Logan so he comes out with some vague statement that can be interpreted differently.
Logan – a man’s word is is bond … oh please – signed a first round contract for 2005- 2009 and got paid for it. I guess his signature on a legal contract isn’t worth as much.
Agreed
"one of the best guards in the NFL. He deserves to be paid accordingly."
Like offering a top-5 Guard top-5 Guard money? At 7M/ year, the Pats actually did that…
It just strikes me as odd that a guy who is supposedly so close-lipped would be happy with an 8M/ year deal but so absolutely furious at a 7.1M/ year offer that he’d go to the press and vent. Unless they specifically said that they’d make him the top-paid player in his position (RE: Jets and Revis), then I’m not sure how he’s come to the point of being insulted at what’s a top-money contract for his position.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Jun 17, 2010 6:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Well...
…deep seated issues? Perhaps. Mental issues by Logan…
He deserves to be paid accordingly.
Yes. And as we know it was offered.
So when he speaks, he means it.
But does not mean in any ways, that he was right.
these are strong words from a strong-minded man
Where “strong words” not equals “truth”.and “strong mind” not equals “smart guy” :)
by frogfromthemud on Jun 17, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh man, front paged?
I’m truly honored—this is a first for me.
"To borrow a simile from the football field, we believe that men must play fair, but that there must be no shirking, and that the success can only come to the player who hits the line hard." — Theodore Roosevelt
by Chad Henne is Your New Bicycle on Jun 16, 2010 4:38 PM EDT reply actions
Well deserved.
Nice brief timely piece.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Jun 16, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
you might have some explaining to do though
to your friends at the Phinsider, lol ; ) Although a good post transcends strict partisanship.
Keep the faith!
Ehhhh... seems like every FanPost over there right now is about the Jets and how overrated we should think they are.
It’s pretty boring.
"To borrow a simile from the football field, we believe that men must play fair, but that there must be no shirking, and that the success can only come to the player who hits the line hard." — Theodore Roosevelt
by Chad Henne is Your New Bicycle on Jun 16, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Who are these Jets of which you speak?
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Jun 16, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't believe these Jets do too much flying.
They have a fairly inexperienced pilot, so they choose to spend most of their time running around on the ground.
"To borrow a simile from the football field, we believe that men must play fair, but that there must be no shirking, and that the success can only come to the player who hits the line hard." — Theodore Roosevelt
by Chad Henne is Your New Bicycle on Jun 16, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
With some of the things they're saying, SOMEBODY is flying....
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Jun 16, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I was under the impression the Giants were the only NFL team in New York.
But apparently, there’s another team there? Go figure. As it turns out, that’s where Jason Taylor scurried off to. And here I was, thinking he’d accepted some role as a daytime TV soap opera star or something. Crazy world.
"To borrow a simile from the football field, we believe that men must play fair, but that there must be no shirking, and that the success can only come to the player who hits the line hard." — Theodore Roosevelt
by Chad Henne is Your New Bicycle on Jun 16, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
actually there is only 1 team in new york
the bills. haha
You just blew my mind.
"To borrow a simile from the football field, we believe that men must play fair, but that there must be no shirking, and that the success can only come to the player who hits the line hard." — Theodore Roosevelt
by Chad Henne is Your New Bicycle on Jun 16, 2010 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
True, with New Jersey having two teams.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Jun 16, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
More reasons why New Jersey Sucks
Build a tremendous new stadium for TWO NFL teams.
Get the Super Bowl for the first time EVER in the new stadium.
Any you can’t even put your name on either franchise, the stadium or get primary recognition on the SB. (its referred to as the NY/NJ SB)
I mean talk about being used….
There's something wrong with that?
Nobody’s talking about how great the addition of Brandon Marshall was? Or are Dolphins fans worried he’ll become the next David Boston?
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jun 17, 2010 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions
on the field i love the marshall move
marshall alone makes the dolphins offense a lot harder to defend. last year the phins had a bunch of number 2 or 3 receivers and no number 1 now they have a number 1 receiver. marshall camarillo bess and hartline is a pretty good top 4. and heres is the but marshall is one bad decision away from getting suspended and like it or not marshall has some terrell owens in him.
i am actually worried
about the phins more then the jets.
Miami's offense seems more potent, but the Jets D is better
So the Q really is do you like Henne more then Sanchez or visa versa?
For all the moves the Jets made, they seem like a powder keg ready to explode. Whether it goes off positively or negatively is the Q.
With the Phins, Marshall makes a good offense arguable a great one – and they’ve made a lot of quiet (by comparison to the Jets) moves on D.
But as many good moves as both teams have made, I’m still saying NE wins the division – because QB is still the most important position on the field.
i concur jonny i concur
to be the best u gotta beat the best! the afc east title is in foxboro till someone takes it from them. i just think the dolphins and the jets have closed the gap But bill b is restocking this sqaud on the go and will defend our title.
by brady12mvp3 on Jun 17, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
AFC East is easily the toughest division in football once again
Hard to really dispute this in anyway shape or form.
Well,
Nobody’s talking about how great the addition of Brandon Marshall was? Or are Dolphins fans worried he’ll become the next David Boston?
We went nuts with that when he was signed, and there hasn’t been a lot of news in OTA’s on him since he was recovering from his shoulder surgery and didn’t participate as much. So it’s pretty much fallen back on the “Talk smack about the Jets” posts, at least until training camp starts and we have something to talk about.
Although every so often we’ll start a debate on whether or not the Phins should make a play to sign OJ Atogwe.
"Why don't you put that in a memo and entitle it 'Shit I Already Know'!" - Sarge from Red vs. Blue
I can't brain today, I have the dumb.
28 "Phinsider Feud" Points
Yep, Chupa nailed it.
"To borrow a simile from the football field, we believe that men must play fair, but that there must be no shirking, and that the success can only come to the player who hits the line hard." — Theodore Roosevelt
by Chad Henne is Your New Bicycle on Jun 17, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought it was hip surgery?
like i said i am more worried about the phins then the jets.
Ahh yes, I didn't notice that error. It is indeed his hip, but no one is expecting it to be a big deal.
But in summing up the situation over at The Phinsider, Chupa is right on.
"To borrow a simile from the football field, we believe that men must play fair, but that there must be no shirking, and that the success can only come to the player who hits the line hard." — Theodore Roosevelt
by Chad Henne is Your New Bicycle on Jun 17, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Brandon Marshall + Bess + (healthy Brown?) + Chad Henne = AFC East?
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jun 17, 2010 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I certainly hope so!
"To borrow a simile from the football field, we believe that men must play fair, but that there must be no shirking, and that the success can only come to the player who hits the line hard." — Theodore Roosevelt
by Chad Henne is Your New Bicycle on Jun 18, 2010 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Yep, you are correct, it is his hip.
That was my bad.
"Why don't you put that in a memo and entitle it 'Shit I Already Know'!" - Sarge from Red vs. Blue
I can't brain today, I have the dumb.
28 "Phinsider Feud" Points
by Chupathingy on Jun 18, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Mankins = Incredibly stupid.
His leverage is nearly non-existent. He is not a critical piece of the machine, he is an RFA and he has just bent himself over to the tune of $5.5 mil a year in a weak and possibly to get worse economy. Now he has called Kraft and BB liars to add to his sins.
Of course he deserves all this agony he has brought upon himself for being such a wuss in the SB.
Fire BB.
Mankins also strikes me as a guy who could easily walk away from the NFL tomorrow and run a cattle ranch in Montana
And be totally okay by July
I can see that already, as he goes to sell the cattle..
Buyer: "I’ll offer ya 900 bucks per full cow.. that’s pretty gets cut off
Mankins: "900 bucks?! You are a worthless and dishonest man. I trusted you to give me the right price that you offered me a year ago..
Buyer: “Economy got worse and by the looks of it, so did your cows… and I offered 920 a cow and that’s before I knew I had to transport the damn things”
Mankins: “I don’t care. A deal is a deal. I have top-tier cows, the best around in my opinion, and I at least deserve 915 a cow.”
Buyer: “You only have 5 cows to left to sell me.. that’s like 75 bucks. Are you really complaining over 75 bucks out of a 4500 dollar transaction?”
Mankins: “It’s the principle of it. I have higher moral standings and I’m sure the other brokers here will give me what I want and you sir, suck.”
Buyer: “Ya, if they have Mad Cow disease.. that’s it, no deal. Have fun in life and try not to drown in the stupid that pooling around you”
Mankins (yelling): “This man bilked me! I want justice.. I want 950 a head for my 5 cows that are getting too old. Don’t care how, I want it now!!”
Sorry, had to channel a little Veruca there.
by satsunada on Jun 24, 2010 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
LOL Rec'd it.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Jun 24, 2010 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions
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