Who Stays and Who goes? - New England Patriots Running Backs
by SlotMachinePlayer on Jun 25, 2010 7:00 PM EDT
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During the dulls, I'll take a swag at who will make the final roster without the benefit of seeing most of these guys with pads on. Next up running backs.
At the end of last year we carried 5 RB's in our stable: Laurence Maroney, Kevin Faulk, Fred Taylor, Sammy Morris, and BenJarvus Green-Ellis (Law Firm), with Morris and BJGE taking turns with Connolly at full back.
This year the Voltron five are back along with Thomas Clayton, and Chris Taylor (who ended last season on injured reserve).
The only sure thing in my mind is that Faulk will be on the roster. Offensively he is on the field for more snaps than any of the others. His 5.4 yards per attempt was a full yard more than the closest back, and he accounted for 15% of all carries. His real value is in blitz pickup, and as a receiving outlet for Brady, though. He is a backfield mismatch as a receiver, and almost a sure thing on third downs.
I was hoping Pat Paschall would make the practice squad, but he was cut right after I started this piece.
Thomas Clayton was drafted by the 49ers in 2007, spent all of 2007 and most of 2008 on the practice squad, and was injured during the preseason last year. With Gore leading that squad, he might be a capable back that got pushed down the depth chart. I'm just considering him a camp body.
Chris Taylor was signed by the Texans as an UFA, and saw time as both a running back and a special teamer, though he was injured in 2007 as well as last year. Questionable durability for a young guy. He averaged 2.7 yards per carry the last season (2008) he touched the ball, but averaged 4.4 in 2006.
We know LoMo, and one thing with him is certain, you never know who he will be from season to season. He started off the season with his DDR routines, switched to dropping the shoulders and hitting guys, then ended by dropping the ball. He's a hard worker, and will probably be first in line to carry the ball, but what he does with it is anyone's guess. He had the lowest YPA at 3.9 of any of our backs last year, but most of that was in obvious running situations in the early quarters against a fresh defense. LoMo shouldered 46% of the burden last year.
Fred Taylor was going to be a change of pace back for us, punishing defenses late in the game. With his injury, he slid more toward the Fragile Freddy moniker of the past. Taylor had a 4.3 yard average and accounted for 15% of all carries.
Sammy Morris, alternated between fullback and tailback, and even spread out wide a time or two as the cupboard was bare. That's pretty good versatiliy, but we just picked up that same versatility in a guy named Aaron Hernandez. If we're going to carry three Tight-Ends, a cut has to come somewhere, and I pulling it from our backup fullback. That may not be Morris though, because his 4.4 yards per carry is higher than Taylor's and he handled 2% more of the load.
Law Firm ran pretty well in 2008 against poor run defenses. In 2009, he had limited carries 6% of the total, and pulled some of the fullback duties. He had a decent average of 4.4 yards on his scant carries which often came in garbage time. He also spent time in a number of special teams formations which gives him a slight edge of some of the older backs.
I'm a big fan of the RB stable, because of how many knees you have to lose to stop the run. These guys have been perpetually beat up. We carried 5 backs last year, but I feel that will drop to 4, since the fullback duties will likely alternate between Hernandez who has more of the size, and Connolly or another lineman in short yardage power situations. My guess after the jump.
We don't have any of our 2009 corps signed beyond 2010, so it's likely the Pats are going shopping next year. Any hope LoMo has for a contract extension depends on this year, and it's a great year for him. With so many receiving weapons, an opponent would be stupid to keep 7 or more in the box. That means LoMo's home run ability may be demonstrated a little more like we saw in 2007 on occasion.
Faulk is on a one year rental and will stay a Pat on a year by year basis until he can't go anymore. He'll retire a Patriot whether he makes the decision on his own or it is more forced like Troy Brown.
Likewise, Morris is cheap to keep, fairly flexible and productive, so he'll be available to the Pats as long as they want him.
Law Firm might be attractive to either Denver or Kansas City, but list probably stops there.
This is probably Fred Taylor's last stop if his next season isn't impressive.
The easy conventional wisdom list is this:
1. Maroney - young, fast, and was pretty durable last year.
2. Faulk - 3rd down specialist and blitz blocker.
3. Fred Taylor - The wily veteran.
4. BenJarvis Green-Ellis - The special teamer who can also run the ball.
I could see that happening with Morris hitting the streets, but I actually think Morris has more upside right now than Fred Taylor. If you can even use the word upside on guys that are this old. I don't see any of the younger guys really cracking the squad.
My final list:
1. Maroney - young, fast, and was pretty durable last year.
2. Faulk - 3rd down specialist and blitz blocker.
3. Sammy Morris - The wily veteran, who can fill in at fullback or play spread.
4. BenJarvus Green-Ellis - The special teamer who can also run the ball.
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Sammy Morris
He has to go, just because law-firm is going into his prime and has earned the right to stay on the team. Sorry Sammy, but I feel it is time for you to retire.
I bleed gatorade and poop pigskins
by Yardpenalty.com on Jun 25, 2010 7:40 PM EDT reply actions
ROSTER CUTS WILL BE DIFFICULT THIS YEAR
If the Patriots have too few preseason injuries, it won’t be easy making roster cuts.
If necessary, they should put a couple RB’s on injury reserve and just go with two RB’s – Maroney and Fauk instead of 4. They can pluck one off injury reserve if an injury occurs on roster which usually happens in regular season.
Not quite
If they’re put on Injury Reserve, they’re out for the season – you can’t get them back. Given they’re all on the final year of their contracts, that basically means you’re paying them to sit on the bench, and then losing them anyway.
You could put them on the Physically Unable to Perform list, but that means they’re held out until week 8 or so. At that point you get a small window to activate them (and then have to make a cut in the roster to allow them a spot to jump on), or you put them on IR and lose them for the rest of the season.
In other words, you either lose them now, or you delay your decision for 8 weeks of the season, and then lose someone then. I’m pretty sure that there’s restrictions about their practice when they’re on the PUP-list, too, so you’d be activating guys who haven’t played in a few months, which isn’t ideal. You may as well be ruthless in cuts early, and if/when injuries happen, hope they’re still in free agency to re-sign later.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Jun 25, 2010 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions
thanks for correcting me
I should have said PUP. Basically use whatever means the system allows to temporarily stretch and protect roster. Usually injuries do occur by at least early part of season so I wouldn’t worry about them sitting out too long. Next year will be very tough given all the first and second round picks the patriots have. They will have to cut a lot of good players or it may be very tough for the draft picks to even make the team. Maybe they should think about trading some of them for something farther into the future years..
I think Green-Ellis will make the cut
Similar to Guyton, I think he could be in line for a small extension. We don’t have a back signed past next season.
I see Maroney as the starter once again. I think he may finally crack the 1,000 yard mark this year, then get overpaid by Washington in free agency (Mike Shanahan adored him coming out of school).
I think Faulk is going to hold down his spot, I don’t think I need to go into deep explanation why.
Therefore, I see the final spot coming down to Fred Taylor and Sammy Morris. Morris has played a variety of roles with us, so I think that just might give him the edge. I still think Taylor could make the team, especially if the team goes with five backs again.
One of Clayton and Taylor will be on speed dial.
As to Morris...
You don’t think that the combination of BJGE and/or Hernandez-as-H-back might squeeze him out of a role? Morris was clearly the first-choice of FB when the Pats ran with one at the start of 2009, but BJGE started cutting into Morris’ FB reps at the end of the season. Morris was also the second-choice of third-down back after Faulk, but with Hernandez playing H-back, I could see him getting reps if necessary as a Faulk-replacement (especially if he flexes out wide first, then slots back into the pocket to create mismatches).
Morris is useful and flexible, but I wonder if he’s surplus to requirements with BJGE taking his FB duties and Hernandez taking his shotgun-back reps.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Jun 25, 2010 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Nicely stated as usual...
I bleed gatorade and poop pigskins
by Yardpenalty.com on Jun 26, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Sammy played as a fullback because he was needed there, but he was much more productive than Taylor
when they played the same role.
The fact that Morris can and will do both, as well as catch might give him the nod over Taylor. I don’t believe it is a competition between him and BJGE, though I could be wrong of course.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Jun 26, 2010 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I hate that someone has to leave...
It’s going to have to be a camp battle. Taylor, Morris, and BJGE are gonna have a tough fight. If we didn’t have such outstanding WR depth we could possibly keep all of them, but sadly that’s not going to happen.
However: We have Thomas Williams playing at FB, and he is the ONLY one who played the position through minicamps. He is definitely a sleeper to make the roster, and if he does, he saves a spot at FB AND ILB. If we have him there, we don’t need two more RBs that can play FB, as we also have Connolly who can play FB. That is definitely bad news for either Sammy Morris or BJGE, however I give the law firm the pass as he’s young and entering his prime.
(plus it looked damn intimidating when you saw Maroney behind Green-Ellis towards the end of last season. Dreads blocking for dreads.)
RB's
I hope for this combination:
1. Maroney – young, fast, and was pretty durable last year.
2. Faulk – 3rd down specialist and blitz blocker.
3. Fred Taylor – The wily veteran who is a pure runner.
4. BenJarvus Green-Ellis – The special teamer who can also run the ball.
-—————————
With Hernandez and Connelly offering added FB coverage, I feel that Morris is expendable.
I also hope that BJGE gets many more reps this season. He’s good. I think a platoon approach at RB between Maroney, Taylor, and BJGE would bring a nice mix of running styles – while Faulk and Hernandez share the 3rd down HB role.
That's the easy pick and I almost went with it until I looked at last year's numbers.
When I saw that Morris, who has more position flexibility, also had more production, it was hard to count him out.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Jun 26, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd agree, were it not for his age and the frequency he picks up injuries
I just have horrible visions of cutting BJGE and then having Sammy Morris wind up on the IR the very next week.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Jun 26, 2010 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Would BJGE already have been signed by the Jets?
That would make your nightmare worse…
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jun 27, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
None of these guys are that good.
Unfortunately, I think the Pats fall seriously short in the RB category. I think the Pats are sifting through scrap parts to find a serviceable RB. The bottom line is that neither of them are acceptable. I think the Pats should take a long hard look at Harvey Unga in the supplimental draft. Don’t know if any of you know about this kid, but it is rare to have a talent like that available. Very nibble feet at 240LBS. If he had played his sr year he would have moved into the 2nd round for sure.
The Pats are indeed looking at Unga
He’s a power-back type and a fairly heft one at that. The Pats are one of a number of teams who are turning up to his workout, so that could either be the Pats showing genuine interest in the guy, doing due diligence to figure out what kind of back he is, lest he go to a competitor, or a little of both. Given the Pats lack a true short-yardage banger (Morris is useful, but no tank, and is getting old/frail), it could well be more of the former than the latter.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Jun 26, 2010 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Unga...
He was a key cog at BYU. They’re going to miss him this year.
But knowing how Bill Parcells must read this blog, chances are the Dolphins will instantly grab Unga in the supplemental…with the pick just before the Patriots.
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jun 27, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh no, don't remind me...
but if he is reading; Mr Parcells, I want my Jared Odrick/Koa Misi/Karlos Dansby/AJ Edds back.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Jun 27, 2010 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I swear, some day, Parcells is GOING to make an offer for Ty Warren the Patriots will have a difficult time refusing.
Why? It’s just a matter of time.
Stop it Bill. STOP IT!
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jun 28, 2010 1:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I worry that the 'Phins will wind up with Logan Mankins
Billy Parcels likes his big, tough, strong, dirty street-fighting O-linemen. I really, really don’t want to see Ronnie Brown running behind a Jake Long/ Logan Mankins left side. Especially not with Richie Incognito pulling left and Lousaka Polite cleaning up. Eww.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Jun 28, 2010 6:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Why 4?
How come everyone is convinced we will go with 4? Didn’t we have 5 last year and kept Taylor on the roster for like 10 weeks as out or doubtful?
I just said 4 for argument.
We have one more TE than last year, and a roster spot has to be vacated.
One (or more in 2007) of the RB spots has traditionally been for a fullback. Last year, we went without a true FB with Morris and BJGE filling the role. Unfortunately, they are both a bit undersized. We just drafted Hernandez, who has filled that role in the past and is built for it. We need a TE spot, we steal from the FB spot (that he will probably fill anyway) and then we need to dump an RB.
I’m not saying I’m right. I’m saying I think it is likely, but more importantly, it generates good football discussion during a dry period.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Jun 26, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I really want to see a lot of Hernandez in the backfield
Maybe my expectations are too high, but I think he could have a huge impact on the season. I don’t think he’ll necessarily have the stats to show for it, but his presence alone should help Brady out.
Oh, if a man tried to take his time on earth, and prove before he died
What one man's life could be worth--oh, I wonder what would happen to this world.
by LegendaryTadpole on Jun 26, 2010 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
This guy is our new secret weapon!
Aaron Hernandez, Tim Tebow, and Dexter Mccluster are going to be special weapons as they get accustomed to life in the NFL. I could see all three of these guys with 5 Td’s each. Mccluster will get more opportunities to make the big plays, but Denver had a terrible redzone pct. in 09. Hernandez has TB throwing to him so he will get his RZ chances. This year is going to be alot of fun! I just want our defense to be great anchored by Mayo with exceptional play by our Safeties.
I bleed gatorade and poop pigskins
by Yardpenalty.com on Jun 27, 2010 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Across the line and up the middle, says Belichick...
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Jun 27, 2010 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh I see where you are coming from.
Thanks for the thoughtful response. I can see how you are grouping the TEs and RBs together with fullback position mixed in.
Plus you can't 'borrow' a roster spot from the WRs
because there’s too many decent ones you won’t cut solely for the sake of a 5th string RB.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Jun 27, 2010 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions
The Pats went with 5 RBs and 2 TEs in 2009...
So it’s not unthinkable they’ll go 4 RBs and 3 TEs instead in 2010, especially if Hernandez can/will take FB/H-back reps, too. It’s hard to think they’ll go 5 RBs, 3 TEs and have room to carry Moss/Welker/Edelman/Holt/Tate/Price/Aiken, so someone in the offensive skill positions will likely have to be cut. Better a 30+ RB or an ex-UFA RB than a 3rd round draftee WR or hall of fame WR or talented TE.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Jun 26, 2010 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions
New England Patriots backfield, stop kidding ourselfs it sucks
I will start with Faulk: Faulk has done everything the pats have asked of him in the last couple of years. We fans love him but he is not a physical talent. He is a role player at best. At this point he could be more of a coach to young players (last year on team)
1. Maroney: Is not a starting caliber RB. He will stay on the team for a couple more years because no one else will pay him. (will return)
3. Fred Taylor – rent- a- player (last year on team)
4. BenJarvis Green-Ellis – we should give him more carries. Young and strong, but not fast enough. (will return as a backup rb)
The only RBs that will return for next year are maroney and green-ellis. That is 2 capable backup who need to be joined by a feature RB
we should look to trade for lynch. (The bills dont want to trade him because they can only get pennies on the dollar for a 12th overall pick)
The other choice is to use one of our top 4 picks in next years drafft
Check out Richard Hill's post from last month
It focuses on where the Patriots’ running backs ranked in the league, and the value of the offensive line in getting them holes to run through.
Keep the faith!
where is Hill...have not seen him for a while
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6moE_qqPnY&feature=related
I would've liked a Mccluster type player or why didnt we draft Best? We don't need a great Rb though.
Gronko better earn his draft position because we had already had a good TE in Watson. If this guy exceeds his potential then I can except drafting him in the 1st, but if I watch Best break the big ones every week I am going to be pissed!
I bleed gatorade and poop pigskins
by Yardpenalty.com on Jun 28, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Correction. Mccourty was drafted before Jahvid Best, I would have to say a ditto though.
I bleed gatorade and poop pigskins
by Yardpenalty.com on Jun 28, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
there is no way
they were going to draft best in first round. it was mcourty at any pick after 22 from the get go. they did the homework and decided they could trade down but if they thought they wouldnt hve gotten mcourty they would have picked him at number 22.
by brady12mvp3 on Jun 28, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
I like Mccourty I am sayin he betta work for his money!
I bleed gatorade and poop pigskins
by Yardpenalty.com on Jun 28, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Remember this post...
When the Lions bring in both Rookie of the Year Honors then you can tell me so, but when Best rushes for 10 Tds and 1100call-purpose yards and the Patriots have no rush longer than 30 yds on the season I am going to say I told you so.
I bleed gatorade and poop pigskins
by Yardpenalty.com on Jun 28, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
best can run for 2000 yards and
we wouldnt have picked him. bb wanted mcourty from the get go. if BB had any interest in best he would have picked him. and plus the pats dont need best our rb by commitee gets the job done for atleast another year. plus i dont think best can take a nfl pounding he couldnt last in the colege game which is far less physical.
Lions won't be throwing like Tom Brady, though...
When the Lions get a WR like Welker who will earn 70 first-downs and and 1000+ yards, and a WR like Moss who’ll put together 1400+, 10 TD seasons consistently, and have a Best-type RB who runs for 1000+ yards and 10 TDs, then you can say ‘told you so’. Hopeless teams with no passing attack (Lions, Rams, even the Browns), will rely on their main RB not because they want to, but because they have to. The Pats with their Brady/Welker/Moss passing attack haven’t had to rely on a feature back, so they don’t really need one. The Pats had the second-most passing plays of 40+ yards, so it’s not like they didn’t have a home-run ability. And the other thing to note is that the Pats use the run to manage the clock and set up the play-action pass, meaning 30+ rushes aren’t necessary to win. In fact, a string of 5+ rushes will set up the play-action better than a patch of 2s and 3s and then a 40+ yarder. Their whole playbook suits consistent, so-so yardage running.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Jun 28, 2010 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed. Also, folks should take a moment to note how many rushing yards
our runningback-by-committee ran for in each of the last 3 years (while running a ‘pass-happy’ offense, no less):
2007: 1849 yds
2008: 2278 yds
2009: 1921 yds
You don’t need a single stud RB in order to rack up a ton of yardage on the ground.
You just need a good run-blocking line and a commitment to call running plays.
Different type of TE
The more I go over and look at Watson’s good plays, versus his bad plays, the more it strikes me that he was a vertical-type TE – all his best plays were done on the move, with the ball coming over his shoulder and hitting him in stride where he could use his athleticism to burn Safeties. The way the Pats use their TEs – out routes, those short slant-and-hook routes, and catching in the flats – was completely contrary to Watson’s best skills and attributes. Watson seems more like a TE-version of Joey Galloway – put him on a deep vertical route and let him fetch it from under the nose of a Safety. He did that not once, but twice against the Bills in Week 1 of 2009, and looked great doing it.
Gronk’s a big unit, good hands, great height and speed, and can catch in traffic, so he seems to be perfect for a playbook where he runs for a half-dozen yards, turns around, and offers a big target. He looks on paper to be a great fit for a Pats-style offence.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Jun 28, 2010 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, Watson's biggest, most signature plays
were all running down field on the catch.
Harvey Unga?
kicked out of school for having premarital sex with his longtime girlfriend. Sounds like a real bad guy. Maybe the pats can get him in the sup draft
Unga ...
I’m sold. He looks and runs a lot like Hernandez [in his Florida film clips] after the catch. If Unga is available, heck, I’d let Morris and Taylor go for a player with this type of youth, bulk, and impressive foot speed. I also liked his receiving skills.
With the PATS, every offensive weapon you add to the team will be utilized to his maximum potential because the PATS have Tom Brady under center. That means there is no such thing as too many options.
He looks like a fullback to me.
He seems to have above average strength, good quickness but not great but he’s 240 lbs so that’s a +1, speed is good too for a guy his size.
The only downside from the video that I saw was that he has a high center of gravity. It seems like if he gets hit, he topples like a building, and when he gets balanced again, it’s usually because he gets knocked toward another defender. Also, he seems a bit slow off the snap, but he is 240 lbs., and he’s not expected to look like LT.
Pro Potential: Ray Rice or LeRon McClain
I think he can be a good fullback though. The guy looks good, but i’m not very sold on him really as a pure RB. his was just MY short analysis of him, but I can go more in depth if my analysis seems unfair in a way.
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Down with Big Brother!
by patriotguy2 on Jun 26, 2010 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I watched a lot of Unga
Very nimble for a big back. He is very versatile in that he catches the ball, picks up blocks and can run. He was a RB in college and appears to be the typical big back for the NFL.
I'm not sold on his balance, which is very important for a RBs success.
imo, he is a fullback.
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Down with Big Brother!
Pats haven't used a genuine FB in a while
He might be a 2008-version of LeRon McClain at the Pats, though – a big back who also happens to be able to run at FB. He’d be more useful as that than a 2009 version of McClain, which was a FB who occasionally ran as goal-line RB.
A big-back would work nicely as a Maroney complement – that’s how Maroney ran best, when paired with Corey Dillon.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Jun 27, 2010 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions
that's a good point, although I don't know if I can compare Unga with Dillon(unless dillon was the same size?)
I think Unga would be an above average FB/HB, but not a pure HB, which is a good reason he and maroney can be a good tandem. McClain is a good comparison imo.
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Down with Big Brother!
by patriotguy2 on Jun 28, 2010 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions
In terms of a RB tandem, I like DeMarco Murray or Noel Divine with maroney
Unga seems good too, but I like to have a lightning and thunder type of tandem.
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Down with Big Brother!
by patriotguy2 on Jun 28, 2010 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions
unless maroney IS the lightning? hmmm, something I can't really say until this season.
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Down with Big Brother!
by patriotguy2 on Jun 28, 2010 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions
He ought to be...
he ran a 4.46 40, which is very quick for a 220lber.
Compared to the guys in his draft year, he’s almost as fast as Joseph Addai (4.37), Maurice Jones-Drew (4.39), and even Reggie Bush (4.33), but he’s a good 15-20lbs heavier than any of them.
The best comparison of the 2006 backs is DeAngelo Williams, who is slightly faster (4.3~) and slightly smaller (217lbs) than Maroney.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Jun 28, 2010 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Of that draft class, yes.
Right now, I think the closest guy Maroney CAN be, is Steven Jackson.
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Down with Big Brother!
by patriotguy2 on Jun 28, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
In a very optimistic world, maybe...
Steven Jackson may well be the best RB in the league, considering he’s running behind a pretty iffy O-line, with no passing attack, consistently against 8 and 9 man boxes, and is a dual-threat. I’d love to see what he could do behind the Titans run-blocking or with Favre behind center.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Jun 28, 2010 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions
To be fair
I’d like to see what Maroney could do if we would just commit to actually running the ball in the second half of games …
Hah, agreed
I also wonder whether Maroney would suit a Ravens- or Jets-like system – put him behind a FB and massive run-blocking line and have the FB/O-line open doors for Maroney instead of having him choose where to run. He wouldn’t be indecisive if he didn’t have any decisions to make…
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Jun 30, 2010 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions
We need a power back to wear down the opponent. 5+ minute drives ...
I bleed gatorade and poop pigskins
by Yardpenalty.com on Jun 28, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
All good points
I agree with your assessment of Unga having re-watched the video.
Yet, I am all for BB’s youth movement. Hence, though Morris and Taylor have decades of experience and savvy over Unga, I have never considered either Taylor or Morris significant pieces to the succes of this season as I do Holt, Crumpler, and Gerrard Warren.
Playing for “now” is a big consideration in the NFL since one key injury can ruin a season [i.e. Brady or a Wilfork injury]. Certain players are “now” type acquisitions. Morris and Taylor, for me, are not, and therefore I would gladly take a young Unga in their place.
Unga appears to have receiving skills, inside the tackles power running capability, and, I would think/hope, in-line blocking ability as a FB. If I am correct, he offers the ability to also execute a disguised screen pass.
With some coaching, he may improve his leverage issues, etc. etc. He’d come very cheap thus making him a terrific gamble with a huge upside. Especially since the PATS need a power runner who can get those enormously important 2 yard gains – particularly now that they have added two huge TE’s for additional run blocking.
I have always felt the absence of Sam Gash at FB. They have tried several replacements with little resemblence of Gash’s output [the Tulane guy, the Navy guy, Klecko, and another guy in New Orleans, I think]. Hockstein, Connolly, and Seymour [when used in that role] are totally one dimensional. Those people are straight ahead blockers [they can barely adjust to a defender’s side step with much success], they cannot carry the ball themself, and they offer no deception in their own options.
Unga, at 240lbs, has enough size and power [as shown on the video] to nuetralize a LB as the lead blocker or power through a LB for a 2 yard gain as the ball carrier. FB’s usually fall forward if tackled by a LB.
He looks like a late 2nd, early 3rd rounder to me. But the next year in college football, he may bring something different to the table. Analyzing rookies is a hobby of mine. Not saying i’m great at it, but I enjoy doing it.
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Down with Big Brother!
by patriotguy2 on Jun 27, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Thats why I play fantasy football. To show your instinct. grrrrrrrrrrr. ;)
I have always been good at projecting player success in the NFL. I remember Kevin Faulk being one of my favorites to watch in college. The last 4-5 years I’ve draft these guys before they were superstars: Steve Smith Car, Brandon Marshall, M.Colston, A Rodgers, Brady!, Percy Harvin, Beanie Wells, Steve Slaton (rookie season), and this year’s rookie that will turn heads in my opinion will be Mccluster, but he will not have significant fantasy value due to repetitions. I would steer clear of all rookies when it comes to offense in fantasy football. Except maybe Best, but he is ranked way too high @ 34 overall right now. Golden Tate would be a consideration as a wr3 too.
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by Yardpenalty.com on Jun 28, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I should have not put Brady and Smith on the 4-5 year, but I loved those picks so I threw em in!
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by Yardpenalty.com on Jun 28, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
McCluster seems interesting
But I think Ryan Mathews will surprise many people. Then again, I love RBs, so my opinion may be biased o that. lol
Other than a RB, Linval Joseph or Golden Tate will be this year’s surprises.
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Down with Big Brother!
by patriotguy2 on Jun 28, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Ryan Matthews will have every opportunity to earn reps/yards/TDs...
Which is more than you could say of a lot of the rookies, who are all in rotations or competition they aren’t guaranteed of winning.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Jun 28, 2010 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah. I know.
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Down with Big Brother!
by patriotguy2 on Jun 28, 2010 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Supplemental Draft ???
Can someone please describe how the supplemental draft works?
… and where the PATS fit into this design?
I would think any team would grab a guy like Unga for a training camp look and another [possibly expendable] body to test the “D”. Hence, is it even conceivable that the PATS would have a chance to even draft a guy like Unga before other teams ahead of them???
Here's a link that explains it
The Supplemental Draft, is designed to allow underclassmen, who did not petition the league for early entry before the NFL Draft deadline but find themselves ineligible for the upcoming college season, a vehicle for entering the NFL. The supplemental draft is held after the traditional NFL Draft and before each season begins.
Keep the faith!
Thank You!
It looks like a reach for the PATS to get Unga. I’d be surprised if they had a shot at him.
If they were willing to offer their best 2nd round draft pick, they might have an outside shot. Because BB has so many draft picks, it that allows him to under value each of his draft picks much more so than other teams – especially teams that missed the playoffs.
A guy like Unga is certainly not a game changer for a non playoff team. They may be reluctant to spend their 2nd round draft pick on someone like him. The PATS, on the other hand, are now looking to tweak their line-up. A guy like Unga is that type of player, and BB can afford to spend his best 2nd round draft pick since he has 11 more [and he wheels and deals anyways].
Of course, this is assuming BB covets Unga after the July 8 workout.
Found my answer ;-)
Silent draft …
http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/extra_points/2010/06/patriots_will_b.html
I already forget what the PATS have for picks, but I believe they have two 1’s and two 2’s along with another 8 draft picks scattered throughout the remaining rounds.
If the Dolphins are interested in Unga as the article states, what do you think they would offer as a silent draft pick?
1 The PATS must draft a bonifide RB next year.
Do they offer their top 2nd round draft pick for Unga, and get him into the system now?
I ask because the question mark is Maroney. If he began to live up to expectations, they’d have their bonifide RB, and a guy like Unga [as a FB] would be far more useful. If Maroney fails this season, Unga would still be a solid FB, and the PATS would need to use a draft pick on a new RB. Personally, I like the PATS as a pass first offense with Brady under center. Therefore, I feel that the RB position should be a grinder: a FB. Someone who can get you 3 yards between the tackles or behind the TE’s block. The PATS RB does not have to break long runs for this offense to move the chains. He simply needs to give them short yardage with the potential of longer runs. Unga looks like a perfect fit for this type of need. I am far more willing to spend their best 2nd round pick on a guy like Unga, and use a later round pick to replace Maroney if that is needed. Getting Unga now is a win win in my view. That gives you Maroney [HB fast], BJGE [tweener], and Unga [FB/power], and Faulk [all purpose]. Morris and Taylor are old, warn down, and insignificant to me if you have these other four – plus Hernadez [who I like as the next Faulk] while also playing some true TE.
2 The PATS must replace Moss in next year’s draft if they choose not to re-sign him.
Do they assign one of their 1st round picks to a WR?
3 The PATS must add two stud offensive lineman in next years draft if they lose Mankins.
Do they assign one of their 1st round picks to an OL?
Do they assign one of their 2nd round picks to an OL?
Picks:
1st:
1st:
2nd:
2nd:
Needs: [in alphabetical order … not necessarily specific to draft order]
OL
OL
RB
WR
I'm still not sold on the value of a top-level RB draftee
I’d rather spend a first-round draft pick on a stud run-blocking, do-everything O-lineman and have a free-agent castoff run for 700 yards on limited carries, than spend a first-round draft pick on a RB draftee and have him run for 900-1000 yards on limited carries. The O-lineman will play for longer (RBs fall off at 30; Lineman can play another 5 years), they’re less injury-prone (Mankins has played every game; Maroney has missed a third of his); and they keep their value longterm (the Jets cut Thomas Jones after a Pro Bowl season; the Chargers let LT walk for nothing, whereas Linemen are still valuable at 30 years old); and a first-round Lineman does a better job of keeping Brady upright than a first-round RB does.
And most importantly – a scrub free-agent old RB can be very productive behind a great line. A first-round draft pick RB will still suck behind a scrub O-line (unless he’s Stephen Jackson).
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Jun 27, 2010 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll look at some RBs and WRs for next years draft. :)
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Down with Big Brother!
Keep in mind, that I watched only 1 video of each guy, and I haven't really planned on giving a full analysis of each guy.
For RBs:
DeMarco Murray- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfgrU7mTBeM
Noel Devine(sleeper- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6nOCef3Hic
Evan Royster seems like a complete back, but he doesn’t look to have any balance.- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tWf1NOPkL0
I like Noel Divine. He has above average balance, good speed, and makes quick decisions with quick moves.
For WRs:
Terrence Toliver- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEO-yKEpSiE
Austin Pettis- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MW8UJYR3bCU
I like Austin Pettis. He has excellent ball skills, adjusts his routes very well, and he can make plays downfield, as well as mid field.
Toliver sort of reminds me of andre johnson, and pettis reminds me a bit of fitzgerald. idk.
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Down with Big Brother!
keep in mind we have up and coming players like Brandon Tate and Taylor Price
who I have full confidence in for our future WRs.
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Down with Big Brother!
Future needs
I agree that Price and Tate are the future: well, hopefully. They certainly have us all feeling quite giddy about their potential.
They could represent a fantastic #2A and #2B WR combination. However, for the immediate future, 2011, if Moss is not re-signed [I really hope he is], the PATS will definitely need to find a #1 WR to replace him. I don’t expect Price or Tate to reach their maximum potential that soon.
Is there a true #1 WR in the draft next year?
If not, is there a #1 WR hitting free agency next year?
Moss makes everyone else on the PATS receiving core better and more dangerous. He draws so much attention and respect that everyone else benefits directly from the coverage Moss demands. I just feel that re-signing Moss is second only to Brady in overall importance. Those two ARE the offense. They make it all happen.
I would like to see Moss re-signed while they assess Price and Tate this season and into next season. By then, the PATS will know if either of these two has #1 WR potential. If not, that’s OK. They could be superb #2 WR’s. The PATS can draft a stud WR in 2011, and he will have one or two seasons to develop. Or, they can pursue a free agent stud WR instead of re-signing Moss and still draft a stud WR in 2011.
I’d use the top four 2011 picks [in any order] to draft:
WR stud … 6’3" minimum
two superb O-lineman
FB stud …. 230 lbs minimum
5th selection: DE or OLB
I think the core of Guyton, Cunningham, Mayo, Spikes, and McKenzie represent a magnificent future at linebacker. The PATS can plug in others [either existing or acquired] to fill out the needed total. Guys like Crable, Banta-Cain, Ninkovich, Burgess, Woods, Alexander, and etc. are easily found year in and year out.
I'm not sure you need a true 'stud' WR (as in first-round draft pick, etc)
I’d offer the Saints WR corps as an example. They have a very, very good receiving corps without a genuine, bona fide #1 Wideout. Instead they have a Wideout for all eventualites – a very good deep threat or two (Marques Colston, Devery Henderson), a very big WR or two (Marques Colston, Robert Meachem), a RB/WR underneath hybrid guy (Reggie Bush), a guy who could’ve been a TE (Marques Colston), a TE who could’ve been a WR (David Thomas), a genuine slot receiver (Lance Moore).
None of them are quite Randy Moss-like – Meachem is closest, and he was still only taken 27th overall – but they have so many weapons and so many styles of player that they can mix-and-match their WR corps to a point that no normal defence can truly cover all combinations they put out.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Jun 27, 2010 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions
yep
better be a 3-4DE and you know who i want
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I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
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a bit early for next years draft picks isnt it?
Unga is not a player to waste more then a 4th round pick on in the supp draft. Far too many variables going into next year to spend too much on a player would be drafted into depth at RB.
They have a head count issue at rb already, drafting another guy who isn’t a game changer/ clear starter just doesn’t make sense too me.
Id rather have the pick in April where it has significantly more value – especially for BB.
I think Sammy and scrabble law/firm are in a battle for a spot.
by JonnyNYC on Jun 28, 2010 9:29 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Draft decisions
I fully appreciate your desire to hold the pick until next April. I also understand Comedic.Sans factual stats regarding career length expectancy of RB’s vs OL. And, I too would draft two OL among the first four April draft picks.
If, however, BB spent a 2nd round draft pick on Unga in this supplemental draft and acquired him, I would be delighted with this decision – provided this meant that Morris and Taylor were released – and not BJGE or Maroney.
Reasons:
1 Unga, now, would be less expensive than Unga in April.
2 Morris and Taylor have reached that career length concern. I have no confidence that either will survive this season. Hence, selecting Unga is addressing what I expect to be a need this season.
3 I think Unga [any PAT’S FB] has the chance to survive beyond the expected career length of the typical NFL RB because of the limited use he will get.
A guy like Unga might carry/touch the ball a total of 10 times in a game: and that includes screen passes. He is more of a specialist [a.k.a Faulk] which is why Faulk has lasted so long. I could see Unga replacing Faulk and becoming the next Faulk: a ten year FB in this system. He would be called upon to get three to five crucial 2+ yard 1st downs, confront a blitzing LB or DB, lead block for Maroney on occasion, and perhaps haul in a screen pass to keep the defense honest. I don’t see him on the field more than 20 plays per game because of the passing attack, the excessive use of the slot receiver(s), and the newly acquired trio of TE’s. Unga could be a superb, part-time player whose statistical impact could be that of a game changer: Brady protection, several key 1st downs, maybe a goal line TD plunge, and a screen pass reception with positive yardage.
Assuming he is a BB type player, I feel that those described roles and that projected career length, in a PATS uniform, would easily justify a 2nd round draft pick being used now – instead of next April.
I can't agree here, though I understand what you are saying
first, Unga now is most assuredly MORE expensive now then in April. If he doesn’t go in the supp draft, then he is sitting out a year while other backs emerge and improve their standings.
second, a second round pick is incredible currency for the Pats – giving it away now, basically blind as to what it’s value could be in the coming draft does not fit the BB strategy mold.
To me Unga is a good back, it’s not a lock he’d be a 1st or 2nd round pick. As good as he is, I feel comfortable with the Pats waiting to get an RB in the April draft – there is just more to loose then gain here
I'd favor an OL over a RB
I’d favor an good OL pick over a great RB any day. A great RB without a strong OL will be neutralized. A half decent RB is a dime a dozen.
Fans talk about all the yards this or that RB gained but rarely do they remember the OL players who opened up the holes or created a strong wall. The Titans RB may have ran for over 2000 yards but without the a really goos rush blocking OL he would be just another name.
by prioris on Jun 28, 2010 5:09 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
And Rec'd
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Jun 28, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
i agree 100 percent
i think our crew of rbs gets the job done i just worry about the health. i would much rather line help next year in the draft out of the 4 picks in first 2 rounds i want 3 of 4 to be oline and dlineman.
All great points
Our varied views, all leading to what we hope to be a Super Bowl and a run of legitimate shots at further Super Bowls this decade, definitely magnify the amazing complexity facing the PAT’S coaching staff year in and year out when trying to assemble their 53 man roster.
DRAFT NEEDS—————
With their first four draft picks next April, I believe that we all agree that the PATS should select [in no specific order]:
O-Lineman [guard or tackle]
O-Lineman [guard or tackle]
D-Lineman [end or tackle]
For the fourth pick, I am guessing one of these:
WR [stud w/ #1 potential]
RB [FB or RB]
DL [end or tackle]
OLB
My 4th choice
For my 4th choice [OL, OL, DL, FB], I still covet a return to a bonifide FB to replicate Sam Gash’s contributions. I can see Hernandez lining up as the FB and motioning out to the slot or as a second TE, that has wonderful upside. However, I also see an Unga type FB being far more useful than a Faulk like player: just my opinion.
I want Brady to pass 70% of the time. The other 30% of the time I would prefer to see a power running game: not the finesse approach that Faulk and Maroney offer. I would rather see double TE’s and a FB pound it for 2 or 3 yards with the occasional 5+ yard gain. I feel that this creates a better chess match with the D coordinator. He has to decide if he must move a safety up to help with the run. A FB and double TE’s can create this type of risk taking. A HB does not. Faulk and Maroney need a decent hole to advance beyond the line of scrimmage. A beastly FB can break arm tackles and power into a LB for 2+ yards with just a slight hole.
noel Devine. RB of West Virgnia. The closest guy I've seen to Barry Sanders:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jp9MuxAszEM
Right now. He’s the best RB coming into this year’s draft.
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Down with Big Brother!
u like him a lot
runs close to 99 percent out of the shotgun (good thing since the Pats like the spread offense) and devine is faaaaassssttttt and plays special teams….excellent kick returner
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I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
GO TEAM USA & then Brazil (World Cup 2010)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6moE_qqPnY&feature=related
How often is he blocking out of the 'gun?
At some point the Pats are going to need a Faulk replacement, and a guy who’s a natural at shotgun pass-protection might be worth a look, especially if he’s a special teamer with good pace. Might be a name to keep in mind, especially if he’s a 3rd rounder or lower.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Jun 29, 2010 6:05 AM EDT up reply actions
not that much
well thats bc West Virgina runs a spread that runs the ball a lot compared to other spread systems. Their QB runs first then passes…..so most college teams dont bltiz but instead keep 1 or 2 LB’s to spy on the qb.
I just like Devine bc …man he can out run everybody out on the perimeter
but if you are looking for a passing RB w. good speed along w. good blocking… basically a Faulk type back…its Brandon Small. Though he might be a Westbrook than a Faulk .But in hiis 3 years @ ohio state.he has made great catches coming out of the backfield….he runs in the 4.3’s
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
GO TEAM USA & then Brazil (World Cup 2010)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6moE_qqPnY&feature=related
Devine is a good blocker too though.
I remember in the video him blocking a DE? And knocking him to the ground.
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Down with Big Brother!
Yeah, he blocked a DE at 1:13
even if he blocked him a bit on the side, it’s still impressive.
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Down with Big Brother!
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