Offensive/Defensive Coordinator
by BostonFaninNewMexico on Jul 24, 2010 6:26 AM EDT
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Why don't the Patriots have an offensive coordinator? They could use one. Why not sign one? Whoever is calling the offensive plays is mediocre and predictable. They need someone with a backbone and with style. Last year they really did not have one and it showed the last two years. McDaniels was the last one and since then, no offense to speak of. The defensive side of the ball could use a coordinator. I know Belicheck calls most of the plays on defense, but why not bring in Bruschi? He knows Bill's defense better than anyone else? Remember the success the Pats had when they had coordinators? It takes the load off of Bill and he can focus more on the overall team.
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The Coordinator discussion
always falls on deaf ears. We discuss draft picks and free agents for weeks on end regarding their impact and potential. Yet, somehow, the obvious connection between any player reaching his potential and the quality of his coordinator is never bridged.
The PATS have one of the greatest QB’s in history, and he has been associated with rookie O-coordinators since Weiss exited. The ’07 season has blinded people into thinking that the O-coordinator situation is not a concern when we all know that anyone could have steered that offense. And, yet, when the offense needed their coordinator to step up and make crucial adjutsments in ’07, he was out coached in the Super Bowl.
Now the PATS have the most talented, most diverse offense since BB’s arrival. And, it all rests in the hands of O’Brien to make use of these offensive weapons. I guess we’ll find out very soon if he has improved at all.
i have a theory on the co-ordinators
i think that obrien on offense and patricia on defense perform the duties of coordinators but without a title. And i think BB did this on purpose to keep them in new england a little while longer so they wouldnt get pirated out of the system as soon as they show some success.
Also, as was the case with McDaniels
Belichick opts to take the heat himself, than put that kind of pressure on the coordinators-in-training. His shoulders are calloused and experienced enough to ride out any media storm and doesn’t want the new guys to have to deal with it.
Keep the faith!
I still don't understand
why the best organization in the NFL uses “coordinators-in-training”, and we endure their maturation period when the PATS are all about winning Super Bowls. These well below excellent coordinators are wasting the very best years of Tom Brady’s career. If Weiss [or an equivalent had been in charge since 2004], we would be looking at least two more Super Bowls.
The PATS are an offensive play or two away from a Super Bowl appearance every season. This is not the time nor the place to groom rookie coordinators.
I’m sorry but there is a direct correlation between the exits of Weiss and Crennel and the simple fact that the PATS have not won a Super Bowl since.
couch u keep saying that
but who do u think they should go after? a coach on the rise in the system is ahead of a guy coming in from a different system in my opinion.
I am looking at it in two ways
1 They should have pursued a bonifide O-coordinator when Weiss exited.
… The college ranks always have a few high octane offenses [i.e. Steve Spurrier at Florida – that’s one example of a pass first, mindset coordinator with an impressive resume]. There are/were certainly others besides Spurrier.
… A guy like this would have arrived with far more upside than guys like McDaniels and O’Brien. His experience would allow him to hit the ground running. And a college guy would be around for several years before qualifying for a head coaching position.
2 I am sure there are experienced O-coordinators in the NFL who are looking for a change of scenery – especially when that change would mean working with Tom Brady and the PATS team. Heck, I would have gladly taken a guy like Mike Martz.
I don’t understand your reference to “a different system”. I would hope the O-coordinator assumes the position and his free to implement his design / his system. If not, what we have are puppets, string pullers, guys with limited reigns, yes men. So be it if that is the case, but it does warrant the question, “is this working if winning Super Bowls is the ultimate goal?”
I believe that Weiss arrived and implemented his own system. Maybe I am wrong. We do know that it worked to the tune of three Super Bowls. The issue comes down to adjustments, not just a system. Weiss made game time adjustments as he deciphered the defensive sets and their adjustments. A guy like Spurrier [or his equal] can also do this. Guys like McDaniels and O’Brien script out their offense before for the game. It either works, or they’re lost [they lose].
Watch a game film of Game 16 vs the Giants.
Watch a game film of the Super Bowl vs the Giants.
Same two teams only a few weeks removed. You will see a much different defensive scheme by the Giants. The PAT’S offense was pretty much the same. An experienced guy like Weiss would have made game time adjustments, and there would never have been an opportunity for game ending heroics.
by couchpotato on Jul 24, 2010 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Just not how Belichick operates
He chooses to build the coaching aspect of his organization using his own guys. He brings in his own, rewards hard work and intelligence, and promotes from within. The guys under him don’t have to worry about some bigwig coordinator coming in, changing everything up and cutting off their opportunities. Belichick doesn’t have to worry about some ego case trying to act like co-head coach. If guys know that only hard work and success matter, they won’t be looking to jump ship at the first available outside promotion (unless their name is Mangina); they will be able to focus on putting the team in the best position to win every week, not putting themselves in the best position to look good for potential suitors. I can’t fault this approach, even though the “development” period for younger coordinators might be frustrating.
I’ll admit to being tempted by the idea of someone like Mike Martz running the Pats offense, with Brady, Moss, Welker, Maroney, Taylor, et al at his disposal. But Belichick runs the organization and has built it into one of the sturdiest, most profitable and most successful in NFL history. I don’t doubt that the internal loyalty amongst coaches has played some part in that success. Belichick has only ever run an NFL team with his own guys at the helm. You can call it stubborn, or insecure, or foolish, but you can’t call it unsuccessful.
I see your point, except for the Martz suggestion, but don't completely agree
Even watching the Super Bowl winning season dvds of 2003-04, the offense wasn’t a smooth operator. The Patriots won most of their games by grinding out wins and lasting just a bit longer than their opponent. Nothing against Tom Brady and the offense, but the defense kept them afloat in a lot of games too and can’t be discounted.
I’ll agree with your suggestion that the Patriots’ offense of late has seemed too predictable and lacking in adjustments, but hasn’t that been partly a problem of personnel too? They were close in 2006, got to the Super Bowl in 2007, and did as well as they could (11-5) without Tom Brady in 2008. Last season was disappointingly inconsistent and it looks like moves have been made to rectify that condition.
Keep the faith!
i respectfully disagree
first of all spurrier is the best u can come up with come on that guy has never been successful in the nfl. second it is weiss system that we still run to this day so yes getting weiss back would have been awesome but he signed with kc which i think is cause he could flourish more not under BB shadow same with crennell. 3rd mike martz as great as a o coordinator as he is he comes with a totally different offense. so unless BB is willing to change offensive plans martz is not a viable option. and the giants games you mentioned in my opinion were won and lost on the field not by the coaches. just my opinion is i dont see any better options out there right now and obrien has some work to do to get better in some facets of his job but hey we all do and the offenses problems last year all werent obriens fault.
OK, I am as hopeful as anyone
that O’Brien demonstrates a huge upward curve in his play calling abilities.
I agree that Spurrier was not equipped to be a head coach in the NFL. I do think he could have been a terrific O-coordinator in the NFL based on his extremely successful offense at Florida with NFL level talent and against NFL level defenders. But, I merely tossed out his name as an example. I don’t follow college football to where I can name other candidates.
I have read others stating that O’Brien was partly the victim of personnel. I question how that impacts his almost non use of the TE’s, and a return to those quick screens and slants that worked exceptionally well years back. Those types of plays were used because their offensive weapons were limited. A five yard pass to the TE mixed in with throws to Welker and Moss would have certainly forced the defense to make adjustments.
We all live for the PATS, and I am a huge fan of BB. Make no mistake, I think his drafting skills, his player assessment, his ability to motivate, his ability to match player skills to set designs, and his unwavering commitment to “vlaue” and salaries are fabulous: best ever!
I’m simply looking for more Super Bowls [having sat through the many uninspiring years of Shaeffer Stadium football – except for Chuck Fairbanks’ last hurrah where he did some nice things], and I am pointing to the one thing which I do feel has been less than ideal among all of those aforementioned amazing efforts by BB – and that one thing is the coordinator choices.
by couchpotato on Jul 24, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
If there's going to be a defensive coordinator, then I think Pepper Johnson should be in the running.
Because HOW many years is he going to spend as LB Coach before some other team tries to pluck him away? (cough cough Jets cough)
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jul 24, 2010 3:34 PM EDT reply actions
Johnson would be great ...
but I am more hopeful that BB becomes the head D-coordinator starting this season, and O’Brien proves me wrong – and he elevates his play calling performance. With BB calling all the shots on defense, it is easy to imagine the PATS being the favored team in every game.
He has drafted so nicely to acquire a plethora of young, athletic, and highly motivated defenders and supplemented this group with a core of savvy veterans. The mix is superb.
BB, please, take the reigns.
O'Brien has more weapons this year
and has had a whole extra year to figure out how to use the ones he inherited. He’ll be better sheerly for having that extra time to reflect.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Jul 24, 2010 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions
At least, we hope he'll be better sheerly for taking the extra time to reflect
And run in the 3rd and 4th quarters…
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jul 24, 2010 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Apparently Pepper was approached with tentative DC offers
but it sounds like it was from sub-standard teams with the wrong things going for them. He’s DC-by-proxy in NE at the moment, and it’ll be fresh in his mind just what Belichick did for Josh McDaniels in recent times as a reward for McDaniels showing loyalty to Hoodie. Pepper may well want to be a DC or HC in the NFL, and sticking next to Belichick, showing loyalty and then jumping at a good opportunity with Belichick’s blessing in future (like McDaniels) makes more sense than striking out on your own at the first chance with Hoodie’s emnity (like, say, Mangini). Loyalty to Belichick definitely pays off.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Jul 24, 2010 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I hear the Giants wanted Johnson...
…but yeah, I still think Matt Patricia is going to get the call to be DC and not Pepper.
by Richard Hill on Jul 24, 2010 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
That's a possibility...
although there was also that thing Hoodie said, that he’d get more involved in the D, personally. It’s hard to figure out who is doing what, especially when the practices are a lot of breaking-off-by-unit.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Jul 24, 2010 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions
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