REPORT: Kaczur Dealing With "Significant" Back Injury
by MikeDussault on Aug 6, 2010 11:19 PM EDT
in New England Patriots News
Email
Print
Seems like the Pats have a habit of sneaking bad news out late Friday nights. If you groaned at Tedy Bruschi's 2006 wrist injury, you're getting a minor stomach punch in the form of Nick Kaczur's (in the words of Mike Reiss):
"Significant back injury that could sideline him indefinitely, potentially threaten his season"
Sweet. Somewhere Logan Mankins probably has a smile on his face. How big of a smile depends on how much he likes Nick Kaczur. But Mankins should be expecting his phone to ring if Kaczur is indeed done for 2010. Of course whether the Patriots call depends on how much they like Dan Connolly.
We will probably know pretty quick if the Pats up the offer for Mankins. Why wait? Get him into camp, and back into the flow asap.
However the hold out of Deion Branch in 2006 proved that the Patriots won't necessarily compromise their economics, even when they need a player as badly as they needed Branch.
Do they need Mankins that much? That all depends on Dan Connolly, Rich Ohrnberger, and Eric Ghiaciuc (I'm not even gonna attempt to pronounce that one).
And let's not forget that Stephen Neal has only averaged eleven games the last four seasons since the last time he played all sixteen, 2005.
Kaczur's injury definitely makes things interesting. I'm hoping Mankins is in camp Monday.
70 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
The last time I remember, Branch would have been much better than Bug Eyes
"Red, Blue and White Ignite"
"Orange and Blue, A Gator Too"
both of you
he is called the bug eyed idiot
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
At least no one has brought his picture up yet.
2010: Year of the Grission...Or Not!
In My World, There Is No Such Thing As Off-Topic!
hehe
Eric Ghiaciuc (I’m not even gonna attempt to pronounce that one).
I think spelling itself was a great feat. :D
That's the beauty of writing
I was thinking that same thing the first time I typed it.
Keep the faith!
Eric Guy-check
According to thenameengine.com. Whatever, hopefully we don’t have to pronunciate his name in a game.
by Greg Knopping on Aug 7, 2010 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Connely will do a great job.
I liked what I saw out of him when we subbed him in last year when our OL was in trouble. We may need to get John Wise back too, just in case. Maybe he can be our Vollmer of the season? lol
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Down with Big Brother!
Connolly's a nice sub
but part of his value is that he can cover several positions – LG, C, RG and is a great short-yardage FB. If you promote him to the starting lineup, you need other guy(s) to cover those spots – two, maybe even three, given the positions he fills in at.
He saves roster spots by being so versatile as a backup. As soon as he’s a starter, you need to ‘waste’ spots by getting guys to cover those spots behind him.
This is even more imperative, given Kaczur was likely to be a swing backup (he played LT his rookie season when Matt Light was hurt, and played RT since). So you might be looking at replacing Kaczur with two guys as it is. Ugh. This is a painful loss, if it is one.
I might reconsider that extra million per year to Mankins, now. Mankins is a lock at LG, and using Connolly as a sub only frees up extra roster spots to use on LT and RT, as replacements for Kaczur.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
I question if BB will ever change his course
of decision. The new guy, Eric Ghiaciuc, is yet another example of BB adjusting on the fly to address a need. It seems that his “no one person wins games” mindset dictates his actions – especially the financial decisions.
As you pointed out, Kaczur equates to two players. And, Connelly as a starter removes three substitutes. I believe Ohrnberger was training as a G and C last season. Lavoir and Bussey are on board plus the rookie C. It seems that they have ample coverage at G and C. I question the tackle position. I think they might need to explore options for acquiring another tackle.
I really feel that Lavoir, Bussey, Ohrnberger, and others I am forgetting need to step up. I would not expect BB to change his stance on Mankins to fill a need.
The bigger picture where this all leads to is Brady’s contract. Does BB place Brady in a separate category than the one where it seems every other player resides: “no one player wins games”? If not, Hoyer will be the next PATS QB if Brady demands more than BB is willing to pay. I would not be overly surprised. No PATS fan should be. You need 22 starters to beat the Ravens in last years playoff game. “No one player…” was going to win that game.
Bussey's a Tackle, too
I don’t see it as a lack of confidence in Bussey, Ohrnberger, Connolly, et al. It’s just a recognition that competition helps. Bear in mind he only cut that ex-wrestler UFA to get Ghiacuic – that’s almost a freebie.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
All true
But I think we were probably going to see Hernandez as a short-yardage FB at times this year anyway, so I’m not worried about that. The real problem is lack of versatility among backup offensive linemen if Connolly has to start.
I think they'll have a package for Hernandez at FB, sure
But if they’re running a conventional Goal-line package as it is, they’ll have 3 TEs – I’d imagine Gronk and Crumpler on the line, Hernandez as H-back slightly off the line. So they could have Connolly as the genuine FB as well… and if they like, flex Hernandez inside to H-back, too. Run behind Hernandez and Connolly as paired Fullbacks, booyah.
The other benefit of running that is that if they like the matchups, they could flex Hernandez out, into a big-WR role, with Connolly sticking inside at FB as a run-blocker or big pocket-protector while Hernandez gets open.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
When you think about it that way, we really need to get a power RB next year
Can you imagine a power running back behind that set up? Brady could drop back to pass less than ten times a game and we’d still score 30 points. That is flexibility!
I noticed McDaniels picked up LenDale White
I’ll rue it if the guy plays well this season; he’s a big-bodied banger of an RB.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
now i'm worried...sign mankins now!!!
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Friday nights
yeah, it was always when my kids would come down with ear infections too, as soon as the doctor’s office closed. Man, I had a feeling it wasn’t good with Kaczur.
The only thing is, Mankins might be too big and bitter a pill to choke down for BB and Kraft to handle. And depending on Mankins’ capacity for self-righteousness, he could very well refuse to negotiate at all.
Keep the faith!
Mankins
The only thing is, Mankins might be too big and bitter a pill to choke down for BB and Kraft to handle.
I’m not sure that the bitter pill part is their own egos, as much as it is that Mankins made himself damaged goods…how do you get to him being a proper part of the team after his apparent attitude developed? I expect that Mankins deeply believes he’s been wronged, and likely would not be mollified by his contract demands being met at this late point.
I don't even think it's the actual contract offered that was the problem
but that the Patriots were so “late” in the offering of it, when they allegedly promised to take care of him earlier. I could be wrong, but that was my understanding of it.
Keep the faith!
Mankins isn't all that
People overpay for Patriots so trade him and get something for him.
I know what’s going to happen though, BB is waiting for someone to make a need play, a G goes down for the year and offers a first round pick, which is not unreasonable.
Thing is although as psyched as I am about next year once the rookies have a year in the system, they have the chance to do something big this year as well. The Branch year they went all the way to the championship game, but because they relied on Caldwell they lost out…anyone remember his dropped catch in the 4th that basically ended the season…Still if it wasn’t for that year then we wouldn’t have got Moss and Welker the following year so good comes from not overpaying…
Thing is they can probably live wo mankins, at least for pass blocking, but they need a better running game (get Westbrook!!!) and LB – package a trade for Woodley and then they have a chance to do something this year. Currently they will be close but not close enough…
BB and Mankins are close
BB would not have any problems bringing mankins back but he has no say in the matter.
BB coaches. He usually does not make business decisions.
The patriots assess a players value and that’s what they play them. When a player gets superstar status they usually become less valuable to the team.
patriots is a balanced line meaning it’s about the group more than the individual.
Eh? I'm not sure about that
BB would not have any problems bringing mankins back but he has no say in the matter.
Belichick has all the say in the matter – he’s got sole discretion in personnel matters as GM/Head Coach.
He usually does not make business decisions.
He makes all the personnel decisions, although the actual contract back-and-forth is deal with by others in the Front Office – Caserio being one, and Pioli before that. He might take advice from Caserio (and Pioli), but Belichick makes the decisions; the rest of the Front Office carries them out. If Mankins wanted $8m and the Pats said no, it would have ultimately been Belichick’s decision.
And frankly, I’m with Belichick – Mankins is a top-5 Guard, and $7m per year is top-5 Guard money – a fair quid pro quo. Mankins demanded $8m per year, which is top-2 Guard money, and Mankins just isn’t that good. The Patriots didn’t think so, either.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
i still don't think so
BB is suppose to be close friends with mankins so it would not ne an emotionally easy decision
I think the patriots do a financial analysis of every position
if a player goes above that, they really need to be a crucial anchor for the team in order to not get cut and i think it is limited to a few players.
brady is anchor on offense. wilfork on defense.
BB has some say but kraft will set the overall policy on framework for how much to pay
the guard position does not meet required criteria and BB can’t do anything about it
Again, I couldn't say that...
BB is suppose to be close friends with mankins so it would not ne an emotionally easy decision
Belichick’s never seemed to let emotion rule any of his decisions previously – the contract disputes with Ty Law, Richard Seymour, Deion Branch, Asante Samuel (with the last 3 being traded away because of them). Hell, Belichick cut Troy Brown after his 2004 season where he played both WR and DB(!!)
BB has some say but kraft will set the overall policy on framework for how much to pay
To some extent, sure, but the Pats are usually sailing pretty close to the salary cap in most years (Brady had to rejig his contract to allow Moss to be signed; the Pats cut Brown for salary cap reasons; traded Seymour for salary cap reasons; cut Adalius Thomas… etc – they’re always on that line). So Belichick has carte blanche to use the extent of the cap, so again, it’s really on Belichick and not Kraft. I’m sure Kraft would step in if the team started failing, but that’s yet to happen.
the guard position does not meet required criteria and BB can’t do anything about it
Belichick offered top-5 money for the position – that’s a fairly significant investment. It’s just that Belichick isn’t offering a top-5 Guard top-2 money, which is just a clear financial decision – you don’t overpay, for anything. If Brady held out for $200m, he’d get traded, too.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
that seems reasonable
the bottom line: it is a financial decision and nothing personal against mankins
Correct; at least, it started off as a financial decision
Although I do wonder whether Mankins is burning his bridges by calling the Pats out in public. Belichick hasn’t appreciated airing dirty laundry in public before, and at least some of the press about the release of Adalius Thomas and Shawn Springs suggested it was because they were ‘bad influences’ – whether by being cancers in the locker room (likely) and/or because they vented to the press (perhaps).
At the very least, calling the Patriots organisation a bunch of liars doesn’t help your negotiation position if you’re wanting a multi-million dollar deal. If you’re an owner, you have to trust your highly paid player is going to be motivated and care about the team – just look at Albert Haynesworth, JaMarcus Russell, or, to a lesser extent, Adalius Thomas. If the guy is going to rip you in public, you might not want to trust signing over your money and invest a large proportion of salary cap in him.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
For future tackle ...
i’m optimistic on Thomas Welch
Branch and Milloy set the precedent.
Vrabel and Seymour continued and confirmed BB’s ability to stay the course and not individualize his decisions. Mankins is not coming through the PATS locker room door unless he accepts BB’s contractual offer. And, I completely support BB’s approach. It has worked to the tune of a decade of success, and a future with equal promise.
Guys like Welch, Ohrnberger [he seems light in weight to me], Bussey, Lavoir, and others simply need to step up and take advantage of this opportunity. The running attack is an after thought based on their use of a RB committee, the acquisition of three TE’s and Price in the recent draft, and no RB drafted. Hence, OL are expected to pass block, first and foremost. Pass protection and Brady’s health are paramount.
Frankly, I don’t see why these others cannot meet these expectations. Vollmer gives them a superb pass blocking tackle. Light is a conern: age wise and injury wise:, and I don’t see a back-up if either Vollmer or Light get injured. Kaczur was the back-up tackle. I gather Connelly could pinch hit at tackle, but he might be starting in place of Kaczur at G.
The PATS have plenty of G and C coverage. They need a tackle back-up, IMHO.
Also re: Light
He’s been a turnstile in too many important games. I don’t see him lasting past this year unless he plays a lot better than he has the last couple years.
He's also had injury issues the last few seasons
and those tend to get worse, not better, with age.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Asante Samuel, Joe Andruzzi, Lawyer Milloy, Adam Vinatieri
….and a host of others can join the list of “good” or “very good” players who either were a sign-and trade, given a fond farewell if they wanted more money than Pats felt they were worth, and/or took their greivances public. And when many of those left, fans often feared (oftern with justification) a potential big problem for the Pats to replace them. But….
The system says the first time you overpay you got 52 others who will not forget that when their own contracts come due. That way lies the likes of the many other teams who sign out of panic or perceived public pressure to ‘win now’.
A winning team is not the same as a winning franchise. The Pats did not get to be the Team of the Decade by overpaying for the “now” and sacrificing the “later”. However BB and staff privately feel about the current OL situation I seriously doubt that philosophy will change, and I for one am glad of that.
And the other part of this:
The system says the first time you overpay you got 52 others who will not forget that when their own contracts come due
When you overpay someone what they’re ‘actually’ worth, then you necessarily have less money to pay the other 52 guys. So either you have to have a team with less overall strength because you can’t afford talent somewhere, or you’re having to rely on guys playing above what they’re paid.
Far better to know exactly what players are worth and pay them accordingly, and get rid of them if they’re not going to fit that model.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Aug 10, 2010 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Let's see if ...
Ohrnberger steps up to the plate in his second year
I wasn't aware Welch was a tackle.
In that case, great! It’s time for all of these PATS OL who have been waiting in the wings to step up.
welch
what makes him have so much potential is that he has only been playing OT the last two years. He’s nearly got the good arms and hands size. Also he played TE and QB so he knows how to use his hands and he is athletic. He has grown a lot so is just getting use to his new size. He can play with pain also.
And, I see that Welch is pretty much the same size
as Vollmer. That would give Brady two massive tackles protecting his future health.
Name me on player
that has ever said the kinds of things about the organization that Mankins has said who has been retained. He has burned bridges. I suspect even if he did report his playing time would be reduced and he will be become the problem of somebody else at the earliest favorable opportunity.
There will be no panic in Foxboro to up the offer to Mankins. There will be no offer. The team will make do with what they have. Kaczur is no big loss. I wish they had retained O’Callaghan. He did okay in the limited time he got on the field.
Fire BB.
I am with you. Mankins is done in New England.
I like what they have going forward since this is a pass first system / team.
Starters
Light
Connelly
Kopen
Neal
Vollmer
subs
Welch………………..[RT] … Vollmer would slide to LT if Light went down
Bussey………………[RG, LG]
Ohrnberger…………[RG, LG]
Lavoir………………..[RG, LG]
Connelly…………….[center]
drafted rookie………[practice squad center]
If Kaczur returns this season, I doubt he’d beat out Connelly. Kaczur would become the 1st sub. I see Mankins being traded and his contract becomes money-in-the-bank for next year. I see Kaczur potentially being shopped around after this year – or released if his contract dollars are not guarenteed.
if kaz comes back
i rather see Vollm @ LT and Kaz @ RT than Light @ LT and Vollm @ RT
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Tough call indeed
I have never been convinced that Kaczur was a starter. He seems decent and more suited as a sub. I would have prefered that they kept Hochstein and O’Callahan instead of Kaczur.
Light’s performance has definitely declined with age, and his recent injury certainly gives reason for concern.
I hope Welch and these other younger guys begin to assert themself making Kaczur an after thought. I also rather see the PATS trade Mankins for a high draft pick and ride out this season with the OL [and suibs] they have in place.
Mankins must sign
I also rather see the PATS trade Mankins for a high draft pick
Before he can be traded.
that would happen via agreement with the other team
They first agree to what Mankins wants to be paid and then what they will give him to the Patriots.
Then, the Patriots sign him to that contract and trade the contract to the other team.
The result is: Mankins gets his money. The other team gets Mankins. We get compensation.
Ty Law
He ragged on the franchise, too, and then signed a multi-year deal. Although Law’s perhaps wasn’t so personal – he said the franchise didn’t pay its big-name players top money, whereas Mankins said the franchise lied to him. The first is easily remedied by actually paying Law cash (which they did) and made him eat his words. I’m not sure the Mankins situation is as easily swept under the carpet.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Mankins also said the Pats promised to take care of him after the uncapped year
Last I checked, this is the uncapped year, so it’s not after the uncapped year yet.
So maybe he feels stupid for whining about how the franchise wronged him in a way they haven’t done yet. That certainly wouldn’t help the ego issue.
yeah, I figure something was lost in the translation
because as you said, this is the uncapped year, and I can’t see where it went wrong.
That’s what you get when one side selectively airs their grievance in public and the other side stays silent, so no one else knows exactly what was said or implied or inferred by either side in this.
Keep the faith!
Mankins also said the Pats promised to take care of him after the uncapped year
Reiss says he made a mistake in his quote of Mankins, and after review re-edited his article within a couple of days.
I had noted the same thing that you did too, but initially couldn’t find the original source
It all starts with the tackles.
Vollmer looks awesome. Welch, given that he is the same size as Vollmer, would be a fabulous RT giving the PATS a superb tandem going forward. Maybe, just maybe, the center they drafted will be able to replace Kopen.
your right
to me also, it starts with tackles
i see the tackle position as the achille’s heal since they are more difficult to replace
if Light goes down, who replaces him
i think welch may need a year or so to develop the required technique and nuances
it’s difficult coming in to an nfl position without technique …
plus he has to learn the playbook
of course we can project for welch but ultimately he would have to prove himself on the field
physical without technique is a long season …
welch is still raw
Agreed. Let's hope Light and Vollmer stay healthy
since Kaczur was the 1st sub at RT. Vollmer will always slide to LT if Light gets injured. Welch will have to learn [RT] under fire if Light or Vollmer get injured. I don’t see another option unless Connelly can play RT in a pinch.
RG, LG, and C have depth. Tackle, without Kaczur only has Welch. Yikes! Or, maybe Welch is ready and could get the job done. They would most likely put Crumpler next to the RT if Light got injured.
Bussey's a Tackle, too
albeit a Guard/Tackle.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Good to know.
I would move on without Mankins. His comments stem from deep emotional baggage that is not going to disappear. A sign and trade deal might happen if another team needs a guard due to injury – and/or another team begins to see itself as a contender this season.
Even if he walks next year [if that’s possible], the money he was offered is still on the table, and I gather it can be spent on a new OL in the 2011 draft. Am I correct that his new contract offer is presently factored against their 2010 cap total? Hence, until he signs, the PATS are under the cap by his contract amount plus etc.
No cap in 2010
So cap totals don’t matter for one-year contracts (although 2010 contracts can only be 30% higher salary than 2009 contracts for the same player). If he signed the tender, it’d count for 2010 (although there’s no cap). If he signed the $7m-per-year deal, it would’ve counted against the non-existent 2010 cap and then each subsequent year.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
darnell stapleton looks interesting
it seems that because he was injured, he was not tendered
very young – 24
was starting guard in Superbowl for Pittsbugh
In Pittsburgh?
I don’t know… that Pittsburgh O-line let Roethlisberger get hit as often as anyone, and their run-blocking was pretty poor for a traditionally run-first team. If Pittsburgh could afford to release him when they’re already pretty poor on talent, I’m not sure he’d be particularly good.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
he was a first year player when he started
he probably would never had been let go if he wasn’t injured
the patriots have one of the nfl’s best offensive line coach who knows how to evaluate talent
patriots tend to develop their OL talent in house
Oh, by all means scout him
I just wouldn’t hold out great hopes for him given the circumstances. Now, if he was a washout from the Ravens O-line…
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
We (Ravens) do have an outstanding OL
Maybe the best in the NFL. On the Pittsburgh OL. Roethlisberger’s propensity to change the play at the line of scrimmage to a pass has hurt that offense. Ben had been given complete autonomy in the past. That will change this season. I expect a more balance approach even when Ben returns after suspension.
True, although I always wondered whether it was chicken-or-egg
Roethlisberger’s first instinct is often to scamper out of the pocket on unplanned bootlegs, but then a lot of the time it looks like he has to run out of the pocket because it’s folding like a wet paper towel on one side or the other.
It also isn’t lost on me that the Steelers went from a Superbowl team with dominant O-line that could open holes big enough for a tub of an RB (Bettis) and an undrafted free agent (Parker) to get yardage to a Superbowl team that gave up a trillion sacks with zero run game and a QB whose best quality was to stand up at 6’6" and throw over the pass-rushers that were hitting him on his release. The first team had a good O-line. The second… not so much.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
That first team's line was also mediocre
The 2005 Steeler’s O-Line was tied for 15th in sacks allowed (32) and was 15th in rushing per-carry (4.0 yds per attempt).
Pretty much as mediocre as you can get.
I guess that explains why they needed some blown calls by the refs to win that SB (per Bill Leavy’s recent admissions).
Rookie QBs always get sacked a lot, so 15th isn't too bad.
And that 4 ypc was a ‘true’ 4 ypc – it was all smashmouth 4 yards-every-single-carry stuff. That’s one team where the stats didn’t quite reflect the reality, because they were definitely a “ball-control and strong D” breed of team. It’s not like Jerome Bettis was going to break many 80 yard rambles behind any O-line, haha.
I wouldn’t call them mediocre, rather… utilitarian. They kept a rookie QB upright a fair amount of the time (easier said than done), and they opened enough holes for so-so backs to run at 4ypc without busting big gains. That’s what they were designed to do, and that’s what they did. Ball-control and clock-eating can win Superbowls.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
No - compared to the league that year
they were mediocre.
They gave up a sack on 7.8% of their passing plays – 10th worst in the league.
They ran the ball the most in the NFL (549 attempts) yet were back at 5th in total yardage and that 4.0 per-carry average was well back of the other leading rushing teams.
They did not have any particularly strong success at short-yardage conversions compared to the league either.
They were a mediocre wildcard team that got hot in the playoffs and ran it through to the superbowl – getting some freakish luck along the way to get past the Colts. In the SB, the Seahawks dominated at the line of scrimmage, pushing the Steelers all around. Take away the 75 yd break-away by Parker and the Steelers ran for 106 on 32 carries (just 3.3 ypc). Rothlesburger turned in a record setting poor QB rating for the SB.
But every key officiating call went Pittsburgh’s way (and we know now that Leavy himself admits to blowing at least two of those calls). So they won.
Seahawks would've won?
There were a couple of bad calls, but it wasn’t all one-way traffic.
The 2005 Steelers run-game was ranked 10th overall when weighted by opponent by Football Outsiders – and that was with an iffy set of running backs. Ergo, that run blocking was a lot better than advertised.
Using those stats, ESPN published an article comparing the 2005 team to the 2008 team, and decided:
Despite the similarities in personnel and performance, this year’s Steelers are different from the 2005 champions. This year’s team 2008 was worse offensively but better defensively. The 2005 Steelers ranked eighth in DVOA on offense, while this year’s team ranks 20th. The defensive rank improved only from second to first, but this year’s Steelers had one of the best defenses of recent seasons.
2008’s offence was worse than 2005’s offence. Check.
The offensive decline is unexpected because quarterback Ben Roethlisberger is undoubtedly a better player than he was three years ago, in only his second season. The problem is the offensive line. The only starter still around since 2005 is Max Starks, who has moved from right tackle to left tackle. Pro Bowl-caliber players like center Jeff Hartings and left guard Alan Faneca have been replaced by average players Justin Hartwig and Chris Kemoeatu, respectively.
Roethlisberger was easily better in 2008 to 2005 – hell, his 2005 QB performance in the Superbowl was horrendous. But it was that 2005 O-line that made that team tick. Freakish luck or not, that O-line kept a raw rookie QB up and opened holes for a geriatric dumptruck RB and his undrafted free agent RB buddy to churn out decent yardage.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Aug 10, 2010 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I really could care less about the 2008 team.
The fact is that the Steelers do not win the SB in 2005 without all those ref calls going their way. There were more than just a “couple” of bad calls. There were around 6 distinct calls that folks have questioned ever since and each was a huge impact on the game.
And Leavy himself has now fully admitted to blowing two of those critical calls.
The fundamental stats are all heavily in the Seahawks favor as to who won the line of scrimmage in that game.
Regarding the 2005 Steeler’s O-Line : As I said – they were mediocre in rushing ypc and they were well below mediocre in pass protection – those stats do not lie. Comparisons to the 2008 team are irrelevant. There is a reason that 2005 team was a wild-card team. They were mediocre and then got on a hot streak to close out the season. And then they got some amazing ref call gifts in the SB.
Whether Roethlisberger was better in 2008 or not is irrelevant. My point was and is: The Steelers 2005 O-Line was mediocre (by 2005 NFL standards).
Those stats DO lie
Which is why Football Outsiders have a job – to weight those stats against the situations and oppositions. The Steelers run game was 10th overall when weighted. You don’t have the 10th best run game with the old Jerome Bettis as your #1 RB without a good O-line. Go figure.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Aug 10, 2010 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions
He wasn't their #1 RB anymore. That was Willie Parker.
Parker had 255 carries to just 110 for Bettis.
The Steelers racked up a lot of rushing yards primarily because they were relentless about it. They deserve kudos for commitment to it, but they weren’t especially great at moving the line. They weren’t bad. They were mediocre.
And note that it isn’t just about the running plays. The sack percentage on passing plays was also mediocre.
Their record during the regular season was 11-5 but included feasting on their own division and the NFC North. They were a mediocre 7-5 before getting to finish the season against miserable Bears, Vikings, Browns and Lions teams. Note that they rushed for 739 of their 2223 team rushing yards in those games.
The Football Outsiders ‘Weighted Offense’ ratings are explicitly weighted to favor later games in order to ostensibly show how well a team was playing towards the end of the season. While that is well and good, it also means that when a team ends up with a cushy last 4 games, then the result will be artificially boosted by that.
Even if we were to ignore that and accept the ‘10th’ ranking for rushing – is that really anything much beyond mediocre? In that 32 team set, their 4.4% Rushing DVOA looks like it is pretty well within the stdev of average -the definition of mediocre.
The same Football Outsider tables capture a bit of the problem with the Pitt offense by noting that the Steelers were 27th in consistency on offense (i.e. they had extremely high variance) – reflecting that so many of their yards were boom or bust runs by Parker and that they piled yards on crappy teams.
They were, again, a mediocre team that got hot down the stretch over some cushy teams, and lucky beyond words in the playoffs. They got freaky lucky on one big play against the Colts and then benefited from every possible ref call going against the Seahawks in the SB.
And their offensive line was mediocre.
F Mankins.
His cry-baby act sealed his fate here. Now hes gonna lose a season, not get paid ANYTHING and go to some shitty team next year. He’ll get his money and be happy on a 6-10 team in 2011. That is until someone else doesn’t “take care of him” and he demands to be traded. He’s a guard who thinks he’s an HOF QB. Easiest position to replace.
I exercise strong self control. I never drink anything stronger than gin before breakfast
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Media requests: Please email patspulpit at gmail.com
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
