One Last Shot at a 53-man Patriots Roster
by MikeDussault on Sep 3, 2010 7:24 PM EDT
in New England Patriots News
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PrintIn about twenty-four hours this whole thing will be blown to bits by trades, poachers and breaking IR reports, but here's one last shot of how I'd do it if I was running the show.
When you sit down and map it all out you realize how hard the decisions must be. The Jets have it easy, they only have 48 guys who are any good anyway.
A soon-to-be totally wrong 53-man roster after the jump...
Offense
Quarterback: Tom Brady, Brian Hoyer
Runningback: Fred Taylor, Sammie Morris, Laurence Maroney, Kevin Faulk
Wide Receivers: Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Julian Edelman, Brandon Tate, Sam Aiken, Taylor Price
Tight End: Alge Crumpler, Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez
Offensive Lineman: Matt Light, Dan Connolly, Dan Koppen, Stephen Neal, Sebastian Vollmer, Ryan Wendell, Mark Levoir, Quinn Ojinnaka (after week one suspension)
Defense
Defensive Lineman: Gerard Warren, Vince Wilfork, Mike Wright, Myron Pryor, Ron Brace, Brandon Deaderick, Kyle Love
Linebackers: Jerod Mayo, Brandon Spikes, Gary Guyton, Derrick Burgess, Tully Banta-Cain, Rob Ninkovich, Pierre Woods, Jermaine Cunningham, Eric Alexander, Tyrone McKenzie (week one, then moved to PS)
Cornerbacks: Darius Butler, Devin McCourty, Jonathan Wilhite, Terrence Wheatley, Kyle Arrington
Safeties: Brandon Meriweather, Pat Chung, James Sanders, Brandon McGowan, Sergio Brown
Specialists: Stephen Gostkowski, Zoltan Mesko, Jake Ingram
For our 8-man practice squad priorities are:
- Developmental DL to be acquired.
- Dane Fletcher
- Tyrone McKenzie
- Thomas Welch - T
- Ted Larsen - OL
- George Bussey - OL
- Rich Ohrnberger - G/C
- Darnell Jenkins - WR
Benjarvus Green-Ellis: we've seen his ceiling, Morris the better fullback, not powering in last night on 4th down had to hurt.
Marques Murrell: Pierre Woods is a better run stopper/special teams contributor and Rob Ninkovich is a better pass rusher.
Matthew Slater: Jack of all trades, master of none.
Comments/Concerns:
Ojinaka, Levoir and Wendell are unproven depth backing up an offensive line known that is well capable of getting dinged up. Ohrnberger is right on the bubble.
Brace, Deaderick and Love are young prospects who will see time.
Fletcher might be better than McKenzie but is more under the radar. He could be a surprise to make the 53. He's fast, and reacts quickly and also has pass rush skills that we haven't seen yet.
Chung might find himself playing slot coverage a little more now with Bodden gone and McCourty having to slip outside. Sanders and Meriweather make a solid back end in passing situations.
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Which released players will likely be claimed ?
Darnell Jenkins … will be claimed so maybe owens or farnham makes PS
Kyle Love … still can’t decide
Benjarvus Green-Ellis … not a word about RBs
Thomas Welch … maybe too raw to be claimed … patriots should know
These players have highest risk of being claimed from waivers
McKenzie ( thick neck )
Fletcher (potential durability problems)
Bussey
I don't see McKenzie making it through waivers
He suffers from being Spikes-like without actually being Spikes on the Pats depth-chart, but he’s far too good to get through waivers unless every other 3-4 team is asleep at the wheel. There are too many Belichick/Parcells disciples around who’d love to steal a big run-stopping ILB who has great special teams value (McKenzie started on two top special teams units last game, as well as being starting defensive captain).
Want to know something sickening? He’d probably be picked up by the Jets and drained of all the defensive calls, Kevin O’Connell-style.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Probably not good enough, quite
Unless the Broncos wanted to steal back a special teamer as revenge for the Pats claiming their guy, I’m not sure teams would bother claiming an undrafted part-time Safety/special teamer. He probably hasn’t shown enough upside in his defensive snaps to make teams want him any more than their own bottom-of-the-depth-chart D-backs.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Sep 3, 2010 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it depends on philosophy
It’s interesting to see that the teams with closest ties to the Pats – the Broncos and Chiefs, as well as the Pats themselves – have all cut players from their roster in the last 24 hours. The Pats cut Lewis and Ghiaciuc, and also released some of their younger guys in Carson Butler and Rob Myers. The Broncos released 7 guys, and the Chiefs cut 6.
Teams will fill out their rosters, take a look at who’s available, cut and mix and match, and then fill out their squad and practice squad accordingly. It’s not a set thing, either – Bill Parcells called it “churning the roster” when you cut and sign guys down the bottom of the roster. You’ll only have 53 + 6 at any given time, but you could have a further 5 or so guys who’ve been signed at various points and then cut, only to be resigned. It keeps them around the camp and effectively expands the roster a little bit (although they’re not officially on the roster half the time).
If it sounds like a mess, it is.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Sep 3, 2010 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I expected Damione Lewis to be one of first cut. It would make sense to cut players who have a real chance of making it with another team especially in areas of glut such as WR.
As a vet, if they keep him for the first week, they guarantee his entire $1.5M pay for the season
Cutting him now and then perhaps signing him during the season means they don’t guarantee his pay – he gets paid for the games he shows up for.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Sep 3, 2010 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Probably
but I wouldn’t ever say anyone’s permanently gone (apart from Adalius Thomas). If there were a spate of injuries, they might bring him in just because he’s been in the system longer than the average street agent.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Sep 3, 2010 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Tyrone McKenzie might edge out Pierre Woods or (most likely) Eric Alexander
He started and was the defensive signal-caller in the final preseason game, and rose to the occasion with a game-high 10 tackles. He also featured on two of the starting special teams units. While he might not be pushing Spikes or Mayo for starting spots in the 3-4, or Guyton for sub-package LB duties, he’s a pretty useful backup to have in the Spikes run-stopping LB mould – more than can be said of Eric Alexander. He also showed a bit of talent on the ST units, which means he could flat-out replace Alexander in Alexander’s chosen (only?) role.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
if mckenzie doesn’t make it then i’d suspect BB of having a drug habit. i think he will. mckenzie is solid developing depth. i also view him as pretty useful backup too.
i think eric alexander will be cut next year if not this year. i see pierre woods as more useful too. the reason for keeping eric alexander is for sentimentality.
McKenzie will have to show his stripes in special teams
And he started on two of the four units last game, so if he looked good in the game-tape in those units, he’d likely get the nod over Alexander.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Sep 3, 2010 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions
except for kickers and play makers (tates/mccourty), i think the accomplishments of special teams is overblown. there is little correlation between good special teams and superbowl contenders. a kick ass offense and defense easily covers over any special team deficiencies.
A great special teams will cover over offensive deficiencies - I present the 2006 Chicago Bears
They had a QB controversy right up to the week of the Superbowl – Rex Grossman could be so bad that even his own fans wanted him benched!
That was an awful offence at times, and it was the fantastic special teams unit that carried them to the Superbowl – in the regular season Hester got 3 PRs for TDs and 2 KRs for TDs, and in the playoffs got a further KR for a TD (to start the Superbowl, no less).
While Devin Hester got all the glory, the punt and kick return units covered over all the deficiencies in Rex Grossman in a pretty decent Superbowl run. And it wasn’t merely Hester’s brilliance – they turned out other Pro Bowl-level kick and punt returners in Daniel Manning, Nathan Vasher and Johnny Knox. That whole unit runs like clockwork.
It wasn’t only the return units that worked well – that 2006 team featured Pro Bowl ‘special team’ player Brendan Ayanbadejo, who was much like Larry Izzo to the Pats.
It needs to be coupled to a strong D, but if you have a ridiculously gifted special teams units, you can definitely win games and even make a Superbowl run, even with a questionable offensive unit.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Sep 3, 2010 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions
i’m talking about over the entire season and i excluded playmakers and kickers
if hester didn’t show up that day, would those touchdowns have been scored. i would bet they wouldn’t have.
special teams can sometimes have some special days but it is a rarity.
remember that we are deciding whether to keep eric alexander or sergio brown and not tate or mesko
from my perspective you need the play makers first and supplement them with the “little people”
What's a playmaker with the rest of the unit, though?
i’m talking about over the entire season and i excluded playmakers and kickers
I was talking about multiple seasons –
Daniel Manning, Vasher, Hester and Knox all took back multiple TDs in seasons 2005-2009. Either the Bears have a ridiculous gift in choosing returners, or their blocking units are fantastic and they can plug in anyone with talent and athleticism and get awesome results. I suspect that it’s more the latter.
remember that we are deciding whether to keep eric alexander or sergio brown and not tate or mesko
I know, that’s why I mentioned core special teamer Brendan Ayanbadejo – he’s something like Pierre Woods or Eric Alexander were, a core special teamer who isn’t much of an LB.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Sep 4, 2010 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions
a great special teams may emerge sometime in the hitory of game but it is rare
really how often in the history of the game do you look back and say … wow, they had a great special teams
their still trying to get the hall of fame to recognize special teams people
how often do you hear people say – wow so and so’s special teams are great, that’s going to make them super bowl or playoff contenders
a team usually can get by with an average or even little below average and still won’t make much of a difference in overall outlook unless their truly an underdog team
True
But the Bears and Bills usually have superb special teams outfits. The 2006 Bears showed that when you couple a good special teams outfit that can score points together with a strong Defence, even if the O is completely hopeless you can put together a Superbowl run.
I’m not in any way saying you should neglect the O, but it is possible to get through to the Superbowl on the back of a great special teams unit.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Special Teams effectiveness can be achieved with TWO players.
A punter who can kick it out of bounds and/or inside the 20. [maybe Mesko].
A high percentage field goal kicker who also creates touch backs [maybe Gostkowski].
If you have two kickers who can consistently achieve this, you don’t need 10 great players on those units. You just need 10 guys to follow instructions.
If your offense moves the chains three times per possession on average, said punter will do the rest.
If your offense moves the chains five times on most possessions, said FG kicker will do the rest.
The PATS will win or lose this season based on the average number of first downs the offense achieves with each possession: field possession will be key.
Frankly, I think the offense should strive to get three first downs as a three down objective each time until they reach the 50 yard line. Be conservative in their play calling with short routes, TE and slot passes, and runs with the simple objective of moving the chains. Once they reach or pass the 50 yard line, they can get more aggressive.
As for kick-off return success, that has more to do with the runner once he has cleared of the first line of defenders. A few guys land a solid block. Those are the only real predictable blocks available. One cut, one correct read is usually all he requires to make 50 yards or more.
even though ComedicSans makes very good case, I think it is more the exception than the rule.
from my perspective, this gets much closer to the reality for most teams including the patriots for almost all games.
the kickers and returners represent the bigger part of the equation.
for the patriots, the punt coverage team seems to consistently suck
for the patriots, the punt coverage team seems to consistently suck
It seems to me to be a function of a rookie punter having slight consistency issues. I expect continual improvement through the course of the season.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
It's vanilla at the moment
Which is partly why oppositions gave up 4 50+ yard KRs against the Pats – no special schemes.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Sep 4, 2010 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions
To be honest I was more impressed by Fletcher than McKenzie, but that doesnt mean that him (and Price hopefully) haven’t shown enough flashes in practice to give them a shot. Some guys need a little time. It really came down to McKenzie or Ohrnberger for me. I went McKenzie only because Ojinnaka and Wendell can play multiple positions on the line.
True, although that's partly the role they were playing
McKenzie’s a big unit, and seems a pretty able downhill run-stopper – much like a mini-Spikes. Fletcher, at least by his reps in practice and how he was used in games to spell Mayo (and not Spikes), seems to be groomed as a Mayo-type all-round LB who might come on in passing downs as a sub.
If it was an obvious running down against a power-run team and Spikes got hurt, I’d choose to sub McKenzie in over Fletcher. If it was an obvious passing down and Spikes was hurt, I’d opt for Guyton (obviously) and then Fletcher over McKenzie.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Sep 3, 2010 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
i rather not cut McK
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Hang on sloopy, sloopy hang on.. O H I O
dont think he will be cut
bc of the bodden injury
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Hang on sloopy, sloopy hang on.. O H I O
if bodden wasn't injured
i would cut the other wonder twin….wheatley showed promise this preseason…jamming wr’s, knocking down passes, good coverage….where as wilhite got burned a few times
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Hang on sloopy, sloopy hang on.. O H I O
many people had them cutting wheatley … i said YIKES!!!
we know wheatley would never had made it to practice squad
i dont think wheatley is even eligible
for the practice squad. i think when year 3 starts u no longer can be put on the squad.
Riess says Denver will cut jarvis green. Not the answer, but another available dlman.
by feetey on Sep 4, 2010 1:20 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
i would put the odds against this happening but ...
Breer adds that it would make sense for the Patriots to bring Green back, especially considering that the Patriots just cut Damione Lewis, who was brought in to fill the role that Green had played in the past.
Jarvis Green collected a $2.5 Million signing bonus, $755,000 guar salary from Broncos for this year. So walks w/$3.255M for 6 months work.
kinda like bryant of the bengals
walked away w. 8 mill from working 6 months
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Hang on sloopy, sloopy hang on.. O H I O
I don't think so
i think we keep 4inside backers. Nice to see Alexander go though, his only role has been special teams and don’t think our special teams have been that good. Mice to see.that Alexander being the first ilb off the bench was not a reflection of his position on the depth chart.
Lienart got his wish
He didn’t want to be a back-up. Doesn’t look like he’ll be a starter anywhere either, but…
Keep the faith!
I expected this
Rich Ohrnberger will be waived
Eric Ghiaciuc exposed
Eric Ghiaciuc was an enigma during his four years in Cincinnati. He was a 2005 mid-draft selection out of Central Michigan and regarded as a smart, athletic center. But critics said he struggled too much when it came to calling out the right blocking schemes and had just average foot quickness and lateral movement in pass protection at a time when the Bengals were really slinging it with Carson Palmer. Ghiaciuc also struggled trying to pick up blitzes and he often was overmatched by big nose tackles who were able to push Ghiaciuc off his mark, which created openings for gap rushers.
keep in mind some of these players might re-signed to the practice squad, if eligible.
Keep the faith!
why
i’m fine w. having 2 qbs on this team…didn’t see anything from robinson to warrant a spot at the practice squad
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Hang on sloopy, sloopy hang on.. O H I O
could be freak accident when brady giving hoyer a lift in an air balloon and then tragedy strikes … you really need 3 qb’s
they did it in 2009
plus a 3rd string qb is a waste of roster spot b/c they cannot play till the start of the 4th qtr….say brady and hoyer are out by the end of the 2nd qtr…well…they can’t use a qb till the 4th qtr
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Hang on sloopy, sloopy hang on.. O H I O
Rookie WR Owens to be waived
another likely PS if not claimed
Welch also reported as waived
another likely PS if not claimed
already got 4 slots filled with Robinson
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