FACT: Darrelle Revis is a Cheater.
by PieEyedPiper on Oct 18, 2011 3:54 PM EDT
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Many fans/commentators/writers/players and coaches alike consider New York Jets Cornerback, Darrelle Revis, to be the best player at his position in the game. While I will not completely disagree, I will not agree either.
The reason I will not agree is as plain as day in the NFL Rulebook. That reason is Illegal Contact. The NFL Rulebook states:
"Illegal contact and defensive holding will continue to be strictly enforced. After five yards, if a receiver attempts to
evade a defender, the defender cannot make contact that impedes the receiver in any way, as long as the quarterback is in the pocket with the football. Grabbing the jersey or any other part of a receiver’s uniform is a foul for defensive holding and will be called. The only time defensive holding will not be called is if the ball is already in the air to another receiver. When an official sees illegal contact, he will look to the quarterback. If the quarterback is out of the pocket or if the ball is already in the air to another receiver, illegal contact will not be called."
Revis basically does everything this rule says NOT to do. Considering this is a RULE, and Revis is breaking every part of it, that classifies him officially as a "Cheater." Oh, I know that Offensive Linemen commit holding penalties on each play, and Quarterbacks and Punters put on a heck of a show after being hit to draw a flag, however those are common across the league. The way Revis mugs receivers and gets away with it is NOT.
I'm sure this will bring out the Spygate comments, and I have to ask, which provides more of a DEFINITE advantage over the opposition? Videotaping their coaching signals from the wrong location? Or constant illegal physicality with an opposing receiver, therefor illegally removing his contributions from the play/game? I think a 5 year old could figure THAT out.
How does Revis get away with it all though? He is NOT the Micheal Jordan of football, although as little as the officials flag him for what he is actually getting away with, a person would almost think that he IS the Micheal Jordan of football. When Revis completely mugged Dolphins WR Brandon Marshall on Monday Night Football, the official was RIGHT THERE, in PLAIN view! Was a flag thrown? No, instead the Jets received a 7 point reward for blatant pass interference. I sure wish other teams in the league were privy to such rewards for breaking the rules.
I know nothing will change, I just had to get this off my chest. Week in, week out, I see Revis molesting, raping, mugging, and all but murdering receivers FAR past the allowable 5 yards, and getting away with it. I just have to ask the NFL, if Revis is allowed to do it, can't we just let everyone get away with it?
The views expressed in these FanPosts are not necessarily those of the writers or SBNation.
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I'm considering starting a petition website.
I’ll be calling it “www.flagrevis.com” and hopefully at the very least get some attention on his play and perhaps even get a few calls against him for once.
call him what u want that play shouldnt of been a TD
hes still great, I hate him as a jet though always will and wouldn’t him as a Pat
Revisal Infallibility
Darrelle is preserved from even the possibility of error.
by sweetjesusihatethejets on Oct 18, 2011 4:10 PM EDT reply actions
The Shaq of the NFL.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Oct 18, 2011 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Then luckily for Revis
there is no such a thing as a “free throw” in the NFL. :)
by frogfromthemud on Oct 18, 2011 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Oct 19, 2011 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Revis gets away with it by making the defender run into him.
And this exploits a gray area in the rule. The defender has a right to establish a position on the field and not get plowed over the the receiver. If Revis is running with the receiver but slows up a little, it looks to the refs like the receiver is running into Revis. The play against Marshall was a classic example of how Revis pulls this off – he positions himself so that the receiver is the one making contact with him, even though the receiver is only doing that because Revis has slowed down or changed position ever so slightly. Refs aren’t going to call that, because they can’t tell who initiated the contact.
All that said, it take tremendous talent and athletic ability to walk this fine line, and every single DB in the league could do it if they were able. The rules still allow for a tiny bit of contact, Revis has found a way to maximize that contact by making it look like receivers are the ones running into him.
by nbradley07 on Oct 18, 2011 4:46 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Point of clarification.
Revis’ grab-and-hold that came after the initial contact with Marshall should have been flagged, as it was a blatant violation nowhere within the gray area mentioned above. I just think no ref saw it.
by nbradley07 on Oct 18, 2011 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
They might not have seen it on the field, but since all scoring plays get reviewed
and the ENTIRE play is eligible in the review, they should have caught it. He grabbed the jersey (at the back of the shoulders) and pulled Marshall leaving himself the sole occupant of that throwing lane.
It was blatant, and it should have been caught under the new rules. The fact that it wasn’t makes me wonder why.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Oct 18, 2011 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
"Judgment calls" are never subject to review.
The term “judgment calls” is really inapt, but it’s the one the NFL always uses to describe why things like PI, holding and roughing the passer are never subject to review. It’s the referee’s “judgment call,” meaning their interpretation (as opposed to direct application) of the rule. Since there is some measure of discretion involved, it is per se unreviewable.
The NFL could introduce limited review of penalties, but how would you draw the line? Can you challenges calls and non-calls? If you challenge a call, what standard is applied to determine whether the penalty was justified? For example, if the call is DPI, does there have to be literally no contact at all to justify picking up the flag, or would the standard be something lower? Maybe some sort of “reasonableness” standard or, put another way, “arbitrariness” standard would allow the reviewing ref some latitude, but then we’re getting into some pretty complex territory. I think so-called “judgment call” penalties, for better or worse, are going to have to stay outside the realm of review.
If an interception is reviewed
shouldn’t pass interference be reviewed on that play as well. If the cornerback only got the interception because the receiver was interfered with it should be called back. In my opinion this is an easy problem to fix.
But whether or not PI is called
is a judgment call that the ref has to make during the play. It’s not such an easy fix, because the vast majority of PI/contact calls are not as blatant as the Revis’ non-call. A lot of the time, there is a little bit of contact that could be interpreted as PI, or could be interpreted as the defender playing the ball. To throw the flag or not is within the discretion of the ref that sees the play, in light of his interpretation of the rule.
These sorts of calls (PI, holding, personal fouls) can’t be reviewed, because they aren’t about facts – they are about one ref’s interpretation and application of a rule that allows for discretion. Unlike challenging whether or not someone’s knee was down (it either was or was not) or whether someone had two feet inbounds (they either were or weren’t), these judgment calls are not clear cut. We might be able to point to a few egregious examples throughout the season, but by and large, PI calls (or non-calls) have some basis that the ref could point to in justifying his decision. Reviewing them would be a waste of time, and it would introduce a new layer complexity (and confusion) to the review process that wouldn’t necessarily make the game any less arbitrary.
When you watch the play, Marshall's head is down, Revis has a handful of jersey from the back of his shoulder.
So he is forcing Marshal to stay bent down and is pulling him to his left.
They might not be able to review it now, but it seems like they could easily have rules that would allow that to be reviewed.
No matter how many zebras you stick on the field, things will get missed. Bad calls will be made. If the purpose of the review is to fix the poor calls, they should fix ALL the poor calls – at least on scoring plays.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Oct 19, 2011 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions
The purpose of replay is to fix incorrect calls,
not necessarily bad ones. The difference is objective vs. subjective. I definitely see where you’re coming from, and in a perfect world, you would be able to isolate these blatant instances of absolute errors in judgment. I’m not one for slippery slope arguments (or, as I call them, non-arguments), but allowing review of penalties would really be a slippery slope, because there is no logical line (that I can think of, anyway) between when a ref’s judgment call was good, and should therefore be upheld, or when it was bad and should be overturned.
Putting a rule in place that allowed (or mandated, if a scoring play was involved) review of penalties would put the reviewing official in a really tough spot. That official would be asked to substitute his own judgment for the judgment of the refs who made (or didn’t make) the call on the field. What standard would that ref apply? Are we going to draw up a whole system of terminology to review whether or not a ref’s call was “reasonable” or “arbitrary and capricious?” These are the sorts of concepts that preeminent legal minds have wrangled over for hundreds of years, and we’re going to insert them into football? I just think it’s a layer of complexity that the NFL rightly wants to avoid.
You're assuming the refs on the field MADE the call or non-call on the PI.
That assumes they saw the contact or non-contact and made a judgement based upon that. The refs don’t have perfect vision on a play. Ignoring the possibility that some of them may be biased (and therefore human), there just might not have been eyes on the play to see to MAKE a judgement call.
Replay could fix that by SEEING the play and MAKING a judgement where one wasn’t made before.
That is my argument in this. Not to second guess a judgement that was made but to make a judgement where one was missed. I know also that it might be impossible to tell the difference.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Oct 19, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
I think what your argument suggests
is that we’re at a point where human error in officiating should be eliminated to the maximum extent possible. While I don’t disagree, inserting review of certain penalties into the current framework would, I think, prove unworkable. However, I think giving more power to “the booth” would resolve this issue.
The booth refs see everything. They’re watching every play from every possible camera angle. If they could communicate in real time with the refs on the field, they could say, “Hey, throw a flag for PI on #24 – he just wrapped his arm around his receiver and impeded his progress to the ball.” This would solve the problems that results from the inherently limited observational capabilities of human beings without requiring the review of someone’s judgment call.
I think that's what they've been pushing for since they started replays and challenges.
I think what your argument suggests is that we’re at a point where human error in officiating should be eliminated to the maximum extent possible.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Oct 19, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
There's meant to be an official watching all 5 eligible receivers, that's why there are so many.
Now, maybe he was prevented from watching that play (perhaps a Jets staff member, practicing for punts, tripped him over), but to not flag it was a conscious decision.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
Was the ref's name Ryan?
Just wondering.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Oct 19, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe so.
As long as you’re reviewing the play, they should review the WHOLE play.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Oct 19, 2011 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions
They can't flag it after a replay though, and take the points off the board.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
This.
I wouldn’t call him a “cheater”, but an “advantageous rule bender”. You’re exactly right- if every defender could do what he does, they would. That’s his skill.
by Richard Hill on Oct 18, 2011 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
HAve you watched any Jets game over the last 3 years?
He’s constantly grabbing jerseys, or arms, or pads, all through the route, not the receiver running into him. If they’re going to turn it into a pass-happy league like they started to do in 04, then he needs to be flagged on almost every play.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
Cheater is not the right word.
Perhaps the beneficiary of lax officiating but cheating…mmmm, no.
by Oughat on Oct 18, 2011 6:06 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
+1000
"There's no place like it, and it's ours." - Stephen King on Fenway Park
by 808BostonSportsFan on Oct 19, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Revis does a lot that he gets away with
but truth is, I think most corners in the league do the same things (but yeah Im sure revis gets away with most of them). I have seen many CBs arm bar their receivers, and look to be draped all over their respected man.
I agree with some of what you say in the post (on that Revis gets away with most things), but all I’m saying is I think that most CBs do, or try to do, practically the same things and try to get away from it in order to get an upper hand on a battle (secretly).
I wouldn’t go as far to say he is a cheater….. well maybe but not big time. I do think he gets away with quite a bit of things, but I know he IS the best CB in the league for a reason, and I don’t think its because he gets away with some calls (no he does not cheat" on every single play), more than he usually stays right with his man, and QBs should stay away from him.
Just offering some perspective here.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
I am not a Jets fan but he is not cheating
Yes, he should be called back more. But is he the referee? No. Does he make the calls? No.
Scandrick could not handle Welker within the rules, but the refs allowed him to hold, illegal contact or DPI most of the time yesterday. I have no problem with Scandrick. i have some with the refs.
Things can go against one team or another in a game, but I think in a long run things are kind of balanced out.
This as well.
They were knocking Welker down 6 or 7 yards down the field and bumping him everywhere. It’s not the players fault- it’s up the refs.
by Richard Hill on Oct 18, 2011 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions
This seems to be a trend across the league.
After a really rough start to the season, the refs seem to be getting things back together. Maybe this rule is next on their list of “Rules that We Probably Should Remember Exist.”
Maybe Polian needs to re-emphasise it this week.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
I see Revis molesting, raping, mugging, and all but murdering receivers FAR past the allowable 5 yards
As someone who knows victims of those crimes I take offense to your outrage that something like a football scuffle compares to that.
[New train of thought unrelated to the above slight rant]
I think that a lot of people get away with a lot of stuff on the field. Quarterbacks calling for Roughing when rushers are beyond their own control. I could see the flag being thrown if Marshall had bothered to turn around and was making a play then yes. But he’s running at Revis’s stomach at about 7 yards, even with the arm you have two players playing aggressively with one another, it comes down to them balancing themselves if it was Revis being overly aggressive and a passive Marshall launch the flag. Also I consider jersey pulling fair game until you actually see someone getting pulled in the direction of the jersey pull. [See Cromartie]
Besides that, most of the fans I know are getting tired of flag happy refs so when I see fans balk and complain that they are not throwing them enough it makes me scratch my head.
And the home of the .... JETS!!!
Now lets get a G-D snack!!!
"You might not like that. You might be very cynical about that. Well, f**k it, I don't care what you think."-Roy McDonald
I'm all for the refs letting the players be more physical, especially with the qb's.
But I expect them to hold the rules that they have. If they say no contact after 5 yards, I can even understand 8-9 yards. But sometimes I see corners (not just revis, although he is a large offender) 15 yards down field still holding the jersey and turning the receiver, and they don’t get called. This is not about the physicality of the game, this is about playing by the rules that are set. Would it be better if the rules were relaxed a bit, yes. But as of right now it is the ref’s jobs to enforce the current rules that are in place, and they are doing a great job at calling anyone who hits the quarterback or defenseless receiver (not their fault, it’s the rules) yet the receivers getting mugged 15 yards down field almost always goes unnoticed. Just my 2 cents.
I don't suffer from insanity; I enjoy every minute of it
That play was a flag. You can't say otherwise without being a bigger homer than Fireman Ed (that was a bad idea, ESPN).
Every Revis highlight package is full of plays where he has a good hold on the jersey (which, according to the rules, is holding/illegal contact/PI) or an arm, or just has an arm around the receiver. If they wanted these tactics out of the game, then he needs to called almost every time. If they don’t, then they need to scrap the Polian Rules and get back to the early decade interpretations. But under what they are today, every single Revis play is flag-worthy and should be called.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
YOu are over exagerrating this.
You make it out as if its every play. at worst its probably 65% percent of the time. He is still the #1 corner and its not because he doesn’t get flagged for things. He is the best cover corner out there, and 31 other teams would love to have him. You also have to keep in mind that every CB is practically doing the same thing (maybe not as standout) pretty much, trying to get away with it.
Regardless, your homerism is showing greatly. Revis sticks close to his man, and when the ball is up in the air, both guys can try and make a play, and revis makes a play 90% of the time. How many times does he do it thats “flag worthy?” Not as much as you think it is.. It may look like it sometimes, but all in all, its just two guys playing football and the better man wins the matchup.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
It's more than 60% of the time, it's every snap all the way through the route, every damn time (or pretty close to it).
Would I love to have him? Of course. But under the letter of the law, it’s a flag every damn time. And if he were called like any other CB, he would fall back to the pack.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
Its not every snap.
I also have been watching Revis play, and its certainly not every snap. Some plays may look flag-ish, but really its both the receiver and CB trying to make a play on a ball. He holds people beyond 5 yards more than most CBs, but you make it out like its every play. I know I would like to taint Revis’s coverage abilities but the truth is that he is a great playmaker, and he doesn’t always do it with penalties.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
Alright, it's not every snap.
But it’s pretty much every snap.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
Fair enough....
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
They love to hate Revis,
and they hate to love him!
I wouldn’t be too concerned about whoever the heck posted this and is leading this “flag Revis” campaign. I’m not even sure why people responded to this post.
It is what it is
Right.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
Easy because the next football game isn't for a few more days.
We have nothing else to do, besides sleep, eat, work, play, romance, nap, drink, fight, sex, shop, rob, drive, fly, dance, punch, kick, walk, run, and sleep.
And the home of the .... JETS!!!
Now lets get a G-D snack!!!
"You might not like that. You might be very cynical about that. Well, f**k it, I don't care what you think."-Roy McDonald
by Noble_Lance on Oct 18, 2011 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions
and blog. ;)
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
I honestly can't believe fans
of the worst clutch and grab team ever, masters of bending the rules, masters of knowing which direction the refs are looking, in order to do their business elsewhere, masters of manipulating the system unfairly for their benefit, etc…would complain about someone like Revis, who is obviously inspired by watching your team, or at the very least, his coaches are, and they advise him accordingly.
The irony is amazing
Hey, at least
knowing when to commit a penalty might be a tad smarter than announcing to the media that you’re going to disregard the rules completely because you don’t agree with them, and then complain afterward that the refs are “targeting them”. I mean, that’s just stupid.
Keep the faith!
Don't you have a racist, bigoted post to rec or something?
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
why are u here anyway?
Hey President Brady, Can you sign my Son ?
by BostonBeasts on Oct 19, 2011 7:22 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't know
ISN is always trolling over at our boards so why not?
I just saw this post somewhere and thought it was ironic and funny.
Yes i see the comments, I just can’t resist a good “cheater” comment.
words can't even express
how much better i feel.
Before I made the original comment, i was strongly considering suicide. Then, like a beacon of light, I stumbled across this post.
Needless to say, I’m fine now
if you need any professional help...
do not hesitate;)
by frogfromthemud on Oct 19, 2011 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm going to hold you to that.
Do your fellow fans know you’re a potential murderer?
Hah
Not licensed to kill, but kind of licensed to be a counselor if necessary. More scary, do not you think?;)
by frogfromthemud on Oct 20, 2011 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know
I think i’d be more worried about someone that was actually going to kill me than someone who could talk me in to it.
unless you meant something else by “licensed to be a counselor”
Yeah, Kevorkian is dead, so I think he was going to talk you out of suicide.
or being a Steelers fan or both.
He’s French, so sometimes it’s a little hard to tell. ;-)
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Oct 20, 2011 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Not French, but from Europe...
..but it hardly matters anyway:)
by frogfromthemud on Oct 21, 2011 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Not meaning to insult.
It was a poor attempt at humor insinuating I couldn’t understand your accent.
Sorry for the comment.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Oct 21, 2011 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions
One more word about it,
and you will have all of my posts in your email box for copy editing. :D (BTW, I know my limitations, that is why I do not write fan posts;) )
by frogfromthemud on Oct 21, 2011 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
If you hadn't told me, I wouldn't have known.
I think it’s official, I now have more failed humor attempts than Favre has interceptions.
I didn’t even think that was possible. Sigh.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Oct 21, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, maybe it was a good try just I dropped the pass:D
As for Favre: I have no problem with gun slinging, until you do not start to send photos about guns .:)
by frogfromthemud on Oct 21, 2011 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Now see?
THAT was a good one. LOL
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Oct 21, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
careful mr glass house
there b rocks here that have good memories.
To take the words of one Terry Bradshaw “we didnt use steriods to get any bigger, we just used them to recover”
Thanks for playing!
Jeffrey M Melhorn
by 18-1 damn on Oct 19, 2011 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Awww come on sensitive Sally
I don’t care what Bradshaw said, and I don’t care about the Pats or Steelers cheating.
The bottom line is that all the record books say is “Champion” not “Champion *”
Plus, I’m pretty sure most of the guys during the 70’s were on steroids. The Raiders for sure. Maybe the Patriots didn’t get memo, they weren’t very good then.
you can't deny the irony
of a post on a site of CONVICTED cheaters, (as opposed to speculated cheaters) calling another player a cheater. That is both ironic and funny, no matter what team you root for
What were we playing?
Who were the CONVICTED cheaters again?
The league said the Pats gained “No competitive advantage”. Gaining a competitive advantage (like steroids can give) would be cheating.
The Pats broke a rule about where you are allowed to tape, not whether you are allowed to tape and were fined for breaking the rule. The Jets just taped from the same location and the league said it was within the rules. The content of the tape was never an issue with the league rules.
Roughing the passer, false start, pass interference are all rules that get broken from time to time. When people break the rules, are they cheating? What if they don’t get caught? Some rules you can get fined for like some QB hits, and such. If the league fines someone like James Harrison for his QB hits, is that proof he was cheating?
What is your definition of cheating again?
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Oct 19, 2011 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions
They gained no competitive advantage
But we’re going to hand out 750k in fines, so obviously they did nothing wrong right? Cheating is giving yourself an unfair advantage, which they did. Knowing another teams private information about the type of plays they are running, and the signals that are used, is an unfair advantage. I don’t really know what you would call that. Are they just peeping Toms? are they scouting for dudes for Brady?
Again with the steroids. One is suspected, one is confirmed. That’s that.
Denial is fun, right?
Are you really surprised that
the league said that? If they openly admit the truth, which is that it gave them an unfair advantage, the league offices would be jam packed with coaches that were victims claiming they should get the win, and the pats should have to vacate?
I’m sorry, if it was just filiming from the wrong spot or whatever nonsense you allow yourself to believe, the fines wouldn’t be 3/4 of a billion
Oh, don’t forget, many opposing teams have experienced “mysterious” system malfunctions for their communication equipment at Gillette…
But in fairness, that’s a really old stadium, and these things happen. lol
There have been similar experiences in other stadiums.
It’s all part of the game. If the other team’s “catch” is iffy, there’ll be 5 different views on the jumbotron. If the home team’s catch is iffy, the jumbotron will show the cheerleaders.
Mysterious equipment failure happened un Shanahan in a Chargers @ Broncos game. Replays didn’t work when the Chargers needed them, but mysteriously worked when the Broncos needed them.
Do the Colts amplify crowd noise? It’s been speculated for years.
You know the league could have said that because it was true, and then fined BB and the Pats to make sure everyone else is clear on the rule.
It wouldn’t be the first time Goodell has tried to send a message.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Oct 19, 2011 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions
those are good points at the end
in the end, none of will really know what happened. Like i said in an earlier comment, I don’t care either way really. The NFL is high stakes, teams will take any edge they can get. You are right about the mysterious equipment failures as well.
Who knows how much of an advantage the Pats really gained. No one outside of the organization ever will.
Will it make you happy if i change my statement?
Here goes.
You can’t deny the irony of a post on a site of suspected/generally considered cheaters.
In the end, you can think what you will.
Pats Pulpit has more Spygate posts than any other site on SB Nation. We’ve talked about it in length and have read inputs on it from pretty much anywhere.
The only reason I responded to you in the first place is a lot of fans of other teams have no idea what the rules were or why they were fined or any of that. Some people genuinely want to know more.
It’s a stigma this team and it’s fanbase will always carry and it sucks.
I do agree with the irony of the original post and considered deleting it since it might bring the worst elements of other fanbases here. In the end, though we’d rather have reasoned debate with people from other teams. Maybe we can all learn something. You’re right. In the end we’ll never know the impact of Spygate, but in the end we’ll have to hear about it regardless – thanks alot Belichick!
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Oct 19, 2011 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Um
We have a quarterback who has been accused of rape twice. And supposedly the dirtiest player in the world because a receiver ducked his head.
I don’t feel sorry for you lol
Especially since the target of your anger has brought you all three of your Super Bowl trophies. I think that’s a fair trade.
I guess that's true.
BTW
JAMES Harrison is only considered the dirtiest player in the NFL because
RODNEY Harrison retired.
Must be the zebras are used to looking for the name.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Oct 19, 2011 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions
you could be on to something
I would imagine we will see each other soon (if you guys do an “ask BTSC” type of things. I always love those, except when they get ugly. The Texans fans were horrible.
You’re a good guy, and it’s good that we could have a conversation without insults etc. I know not all fans of any team are bad, but in my experience, i have not had luck with Pats fans. I know Steeler fans get a bad rap too, but I don’t believe I belong in that category. Some of our fans annoy me to death. So my bad experiences are not my fault lol.
But yeah, good talk!
You too.
See you around the webz.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Oct 19, 2011 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Slot we NEED to make a spygate post.
With all the info on it, so when someone brings it up, its all there. With links, quotes, and rules. Facts if you will.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
please do
Hey President Brady, Can you sign my Son ?
by BostonBeasts on Oct 20, 2011 7:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Many of the people who stop by won't read it.
Their sound bite mentality and “Cheatriots” tag are near and dear to their hearts.
They won’t be swayed from their preconceived idea. It might give some ammo to the Pats faithful, though.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Oct 20, 2011 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Thats what I hope it would also do.
we can just refer to the post, and use the information.
I mean, people who stick by the “cheaters” mold will be bombarded. lol
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
You really should do it.
It doesn’t matter if some hating morons choose not to read it. What you said about giving some more ammo to Pats fans makes it worthwhile.
It will save a lot of you from having to go back and forth with idiots. You can simply put a link to the post in your comment and tell someone to “read it or GTFO”.
Works for me.
I have a page dedicated to the facts of that whole manufactured farce on my home site specifically for that purpose.
snowboard kat: "Don't keep me in suspense. What is it, big brother?"
cscmember: "You're related to almost everyone on SBN. Dog is the biggest slut in the history of mankind. There, I said it."
~Moral of the story: Beware of Dog - Because He Might Be Your Dad~
by BewareofDog on Oct 20, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
eh...
I don’t find it so bad, mostly because I’ve got all the relevant pages bookmarked. I guess CS does too, and probably a few other guys as well, at least the ones of the more… confrontational sort.
And it’s not really an issue here, because no-one’s going to start the argument here unless they wanted to be banned anyway, and would therefore ignore the logic in any response. If someone wants to bring it up (and it will be over the next couple of weeks, given the opponent), they’re better off being told directly rather than having to come over here (not the most unbiased of places) and read something.
Plus it’s better to bring out only the relevant parts of the argument, like the walk-through tapes being made up by the Herald, you don’t need to put in the whole filming is legal if you’re in such and such a spot.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
Mr. Frank-the-Steeler-fan was just lobbing some bombs early
to get the hate stoked before Pats-Steelers a week from Sunday. I’d expect nothing less than a little passive-aggressiveness from that fan base anyway, lol, but doesn’t he know we’re on a bye week?
Keep the faith!
The argument that I think is funny is: If they didn't gain anything from it, why did they do it?
You know that has to be a kid talking. I’ve been to enough jobs where they do things and NOBODY has any clue why they started it or why they’re continuing to do it.
Usually after someone gets fired (also called down-sizing or right-sizing < personally HATE that term) and jobs have to be “absorbed” by the remaining staff that the question is asked WHY are we doing this task?
Sometimes there’s a boss that’s smart enough to realize it is no longer necessary and kill it (with no adverse effects and some increase in productivity), and sometimes you get the small-headed variety that say, “There must be a reason, do it anyway.” I’d love to respond, “I thought they gave all the useless jobs to you.”, but then I have find a new job and silence is less work for me.
Inertia can be a dangerous thing in organizations … and people.
You know, I’m sure the guy that did the taping was absolutely positive he was doing the most important work in the organization. In the end, most of his work was probably tossed in a drawer and forgotten.
The quick answer for, “If they didn’t gain anything from it, why did they do it?” is: Llama Dung.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Oct 20, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
By the way,
The Llama Dung story has not been proved or disproved to my knowledge (though people have tried to do both). It simply stands as a cautionary tale.
For positive uses of Llama Dung look here and here. No shit!
I’ve now done my trivia for the day. I’ll wash my hands of the whole matter.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Oct 20, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I knew the railroad one.
I believe the size of the space shuttle relates to the width of a horse’s ass, too.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
The railroad one is actually bogus.
But the relationship of the shuttle to rail width was true.
There were multiple standard gauges in rails early on in this country and it existed for some time before someone got enough market share to force a standard. I suppose it’s possible ot argue that those were all due to the variation in horse’s asses, but that doesn’t really hold up with the Roman road theory.
Still it’s a good story and another good cautionary tale.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Oct 20, 2011 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think it's fair
to assume I’m a kid for making the reasonable assumption that someone in the position of head coach, gm or any other staff member on the team would not waste time doing something like that if there was nothing to be gained. Their time is precious right?
Not exactly.
General mindset in many companies is, “We’re paying you anyway, might as well keep you busy.”
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Oct 20, 2011 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions
for the taper yes
are you trying to say that the person filming just went out and did this on his own?
I just don't think they would conceive that idea
just give someone busy work.
No I'm sure they were told to do it by someone.
Belichick would have the ultimate responsibility on that, but he isn’t directly in charge of all the filming. There’s middle management as well. In fact, I think it was the same guy that filmed for Josh McDaniels in Denver. You know – Spygate II.
I’m just saying that if you got three guys that run cameras on your staff, you’re going to keep them busy doing something. You’re not paying them to sit on their thumbs. You can also argue that they need less guys on staff, and they probably do now.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Oct 20, 2011 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
that really wasn't it
I’d have no problem admitting it if it were. I am in no way excited about my teamhaving to face yours two weeks from now. I really stumbled across the post. I don’t go around starting shit with people, and I had no idea that people would get so offended by it. I assumed you’d heard it all before. Many people in the comments seemed to think the post was a little ridiculous as well.
Again, no connection between my comment and the game two weeks from now
It has happened before, even if it wasn't your particular intention
It happened last year, and the year before. Someone from BTSC has come over to start poking about spygate and cheating right around the time these two teams play each other.
Forgive our testiness, but even if it wasn’t your intention, it is what you ended up doing and it gets kind of old pretty fast.
But if you feel like talking football, we’re all for it.
Keep the faith!
Oh, I didn't realize people did that
that’s a strange coincidence, because like i said, i just saw the title of the post. I love talking football, and it’s fun to talk to people from other teams in my opinion. Talking with our own guys is good too, but it’s all Steelers all the time, sometimes i’d like to get different perspectives.
And who would be better than the other most hated team in football’s fans?
We both have things that people say that get old fast lol
I apologize for causing you problems
also
if that does happen from BTSC this year, can you let me know who it is? Not that i can do anything about it, but i’d kinda like to know if we have d-bags, and who they are. Just for my own personal knowledge
There are a few that i would suspect.
Appreciated -
Every fan base has a few bomb-throwers, but we’ve found most are just pretty passionate about their teams. As you said, I learn a lot from other teams’ fans and it’s always good to get a different perspective – especially from another AFC team that the Pats have an interesting history with.
By the way, I know you all face the Cardinals this week and we’ll just have to sit back and watch. I hate bye-week Sundays.
Keep the faith!
Should be another "awesome"
game where we allow a sub par team to stay in the game way longer than they should.
I wish they would just go for the throat like Belichick does. Oh well, a win’s a win i guess
BTW
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Oct 19, 2011 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions
He continues with:
Cowher seems to absolve the Patriots for any wrongdoing.
“Listen, there’s people stealing signals all the time before that,” Cowher said. "You have ways to hide those things. We had wristbands for our defense. I remember trying to get offensive plays and see what the formations were. Everybody knows.
“You’re trying to gain a competitive edge. Did that go beyond it? To a degree. Do I think that helped them win football games? No. You still have to go out and play the game. I still have a hard time believing that was a difference in a game.”
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Oct 19, 2011 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions
so did Dan Rooney
they could be toeing the NFL line, or they could be being honest.
Either way, I will say it again. I really don’t care what they did. Every time a team is dominant, other fan bases have some excuse. It never fails.
I’m sure every team that’s not the Cleveland Browns, is doing something that could be consider inappropriate. The difference between a win and a loss in the NFL can be paper thin. Big money on the line.
Steelers have been good longer and more times than any team I know.
The whole Rooney family is class head to toe. The Steeler tradition is a rich one.
You should know as well as anyone how the bottom dwellers throw sticks when you’re on top. It happens all the time.
I’m old enough, though, to remember what it’s like to be a bottom dweller. I just hope after Belichick and Brady, we’re not back there again. Right now, I’m enjoying the good times while they last.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Oct 19, 2011 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Definitely
and they have been damn good for you. 14-2 in their “rebuilding” year…losing 1 of the top 3 qbs and go 11-5, and trick some team into spending a crap load on Matt Cassell.
I love Belichick, i think he’s without a doubt the greatest ever. At least in the top 5.
When I was younger, I liked the Pats. They weren’t my favorite team, but I was still a fan. When Drew Bledsoe got back and they didn’t start him, i was so mad. I was no longer a fan. Turns out it was the best thing they’ve ever done as a franchise obviously.
My wife's a Steelers fan and I see most of their games.
The only time I root against them is when they play the Pats.
My wife and I have a running bet that loser has to be on top, and I like to have my hands free.
Sue me.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Oct 19, 2011 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions
hahaha
Well, here’s hoping you are not able to do as much with your hands in two weeks.
You fiend!
LOL
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Oct 19, 2011 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey
I’m all for a man “getting his” but this is the Steelers we are talking about. And you are the team that has made us look like JV the last few times (not counting the game Brady was in)
I want to see at least one victory while Brady is still playing, and elite. I don’t want to have to wait till he’s in year 17 with a Terry Bradshaw bald spot.
So again, don’t feel sorry for you. You’re still winning at the end of the night, wouldn’t you say?
Hey, losing never felt so good.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Oct 19, 2011 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions
screw Bill Cowher
Not for that reason, but for losing 4 home AFCCG’s
Understand
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Oct 19, 2011 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions
First of all, teams change their signals all the time BECAUSE they can be stolen.
Second of all, they often have multiple guys faking signals so the other team doesn’t know who is giving the real signals.
Why do they do all of this? You can see the signals from the opposite sideline and the booth (where you ARE allowed to tape them). You can also see the clock. The two pieces of information that were on the tape. In 2006, they sent out a memo that said you couldn’t tape on the sidelines (where the Pats taped). The Jets just taped from there and the league said it was allowed.
I’m not denying THAT they taped and broke a rule. They did. I’m just stating what the league stated that No Competitive Advantage Was Gained. Simply because you can get all of the same information WITHIN the rules.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Oct 19, 2011 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh yeah, the 750k.
Because you guys, of all people, know Goodell only punishes what’s actually happened, in a fair manner. Of course.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
good point
messages need to be sent, or whatever Goodell’s logic is
If you bother to look through the comments
you will see plenty of people disagreeing with the OP.
There are rules in football, but like everywhere else in the world (finance, tax, law, medicine, construction, what have you), people who are “experts” in their field will find ways to bend, twist, circumvent or conveniently interpret rules to give them an advantage. If you see a system that can be manipulated and you DON’T manipulate it (especially in sports, where there are little to no ethical considerations), you’re foolish.
Or, put more succinctly: “If you’re not cheating, you’re not trying.”
I know man
I’ve actually said that about the whole Pats mess. Yeah, it was wrong, when you’re going for it all, you take any edge you can get.
irony: 1.the use of a term or expression for something other than its literal intention
2.An outcome other than which is expected.
Arm chair GM. Mod/contributing writer at SBN Jets blog GGN.
Archduke of PACOS.
GangGreenNation.com
you forgot
A literary style employing such contrasts for humorous or rhetorical effect
and
Incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs: “Hyde noted the irony of Ireland’s copying the nation she most hated” (Richard Kain).
and
An occurrence, result, or circumstance notable for such incongruity.
Yeah, see how many legit dictionaries you pull that gem out of
Arm chair GM. Mod/contributing writer at SBN Jets blog GGN.
Archduke of PACOS.
GangGreenNation.com
Idk man, "cheater" is a bit rough, IMO
Does he get away with holding or illegal contact every now and then? Sure. But a lot of players do. That 100-yard pick 6 play looked bad, but Marshall was also falling into him. It could have gone either way.
Deep in enemy territory
Not a cheater
But he gets away with from Pass interference than most CB’s i’ve seen. I don’t remember every seeing Bailey, Woodson or Namdi manhandle receivers the way revis have. If it’s once in a while thing i would not care, but he does it so damn much. and it’ worse because i’ve seen lesser contact on CB’s (coughColtscough) being called PI’s.
Not even disputing an illegal contact on Monday
But Marhsall pushed off or committed OPI at least a few times himself unflagged. You’re using a single instance to substantiate a viewpoint that I don’t think is credible.
Antonio Cromartie holds, commits DPI or illegal contact at a far greater rate, because he is inferior and overrated. I watch replays of Revis coverage almost every day doing what I do, and your indictment just doesn’t have merit in my humble opinion. Whether factoring in uncalled penalties or not, there is no other CB playing football right now with such consistent coverage skills. Even half of Marshall’s 100-yard no score production Monday came off a play where he was covered by Cromartie.
Like I said, that doesn’t mean he doesn’t commit penalties like all defensive backs. But his coverage/assignments are played so consistently well that you have to be alleging serious complicity on the part of officials.
Arm chair GM. Mod/contributing writer at SBN Jets blog GGN.
Archduke of PACOS.
GangGreenNation.com
That's why this game seemed to have a "let them play" semblance to it.
But if they do that, what’s the point of having the rule in the first place?
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
I agree
but if they had officiated tightly Revis still would have come out ahead. If anything Marshall would have done even less against him.
Arm chair GM. Mod/contributing writer at SBN Jets blog GGN.
Archduke of PACOS.
GangGreenNation.com
He's great, I'll give you that.
By and large the rules of any game aren’t what’s written on paper, they’re what the officials call. If they make the same calls both ways, then it’s a fair game.
Revis will push it as far as he can and not get the call. Cromartie will push it past that point. Both of them get by with stuff that don’t get called, but like I said, the reality is the rules are what’s called. No call, then technically you didn’t break the rule despite what the camera shows.
Revis walks the fine line better than anyone in the game. I wish some of our guys could do that as well.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Oct 20, 2011 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions
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