The case for Randy Moss part II

by gnatecolby on Dec 8, 2011 7:54 PM EST

So at the beginning of the season I made the case for bringing Randy back as he said he would and only for the patriots. Well I am exploring the idea, I commented this as a reply to price's cut. At the beginning of the year the rational for not taking Randy back was that there was price and Tate and someone would be the deep three to take the top off the d and force the safeties deep. Now they are both gone I ask why not Randy, the young burner tiquan whatever, will he get picked up if cut? Is he practice squad eligible? Can we bring in Randy and still hide him? If not and we lose him, do we care? So what can Randy bring to the table, I don't know but if you bring him in for the last two gAmes to see, what's the harm. The other teams will not have recent film in the new system and if he pulls a safety then there is even more space for welker gronk and Hernandez. If he doesn't send him on go routes and see if he still has it. If he does then he's the best 5th option in the NFL. If not then we still have welker branch, Hernandez and gronk. Though I doubt it will happen I would love to see it happen and think BB is crazy enough to do it and could make it work. If you simple add in 6 plays a game with moss running deep and one hits for 60 yards or a td that can swing a game in the playoffs where points are a premium. All season long j have enjoyed watching the D gel and I actually trust the D to show up in the playoffs and it is the offense I am weary of in the playoffs given the history since 2007.

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Why not, I guess

prolly cant hurt

by Joel Korson on Dec 8, 2011 9:50 PM EST reply actions

except it will be a media circus and that essentially means that Ocho is gone

by Joel Korson on Dec 8, 2011 9:51 PM EST up reply actions

Do it during tebow week

it will be an afterthought.

by gnatecolby on Dec 9, 2011 12:49 AM EST up reply actions

I agree; If it doesn't hurt the locker room, why not?

Randy Moss did provide another dimension to our offense, the deep threat. We have not had a true deep threat since we traded him. It takes the top off the defense and they need atleast 2 defenders to cover the deep third of the field. Even if Moss refuses to run routes anymore and only runs in a straight line, that still would take 2 defenders to make sure he doesn’t get open and that’s 2 less defenders to cover the likes of Welker, Branch, Gronkowski, and Hernandez, all dangerous receivers if given room up the middle to work with.

It can’t hurt; it can, however, help. It’s an option worth exploring.

Cyril P
liryc715@yahoo.com

by Cyrilp on Dec 8, 2011 10:02 PM EST up reply actions

Randy only wanted to come back for a long term deal.

Other teams offered him a short term deal and it was no go.

The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
Belichick is looking for a new name for his boat: VI Rings sounds pretty good.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 8, 2011 11:34 PM EST reply actions

Yeah but he said he would only play for us

give him a vet min for this and next year and cut him if you want next year and just suck up the money you owe him. We can take a small cap hit next year on moss.

by gnatecolby on Dec 9, 2011 12:50 AM EST up reply actions

I doubt he can still take the top off the defense

but he can probably catch… which is something the Underwood and Ocho cant do

by Joel Korson on Dec 8, 2011 11:47 PM EST reply actions

Would you bet on it and leave him in single coverage?

that’s the extra question he would pose to opposing defenses.

If they leave him singled up can he ruin you still?

Bring him into the fold let him practice for three weeks, a bye week and unleash him in the playoffs. You may say he can’t with no game time but look at the first 3 games of 2007. He is 4 years older but all we need is 3 games

by gnatecolby on Dec 9, 2011 12:57 AM EST up reply actions

I wanna bring Randy back

so all you people who want to bring him back stfu when he doesn’t produce. And if he does produce? Well, I’m fine with that too =D

The question is, what is Ocho’s deal? Moss went from the Raiders to the Pats – learning the Pats system very effectively. Moss was a “play when I wanna play” guy, whereas Ocho seems to have dreamed about being on the Pats his whole life. You’d think Ocho would be working just has hard as Moss.

All I can assume is that Moss had it easier – he basically just ran down the sidelines and extended his arms further then the defenders. However, until 2007, that wasn’t the Pats style. So if they could shift styles for him, why can’t they shift to whatever Ocho was more used to?

And I was thinking: If Ocho can’t learn our system, what if we had drafted him? Would he have been another Brandon Tate, or Taylor Price? What if the problem our system, rather then the receiver?

Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner

by New Century Silver on Dec 9, 2011 1:35 AM EST reply actions

Its not the system.

Ocho played ina vertical style offense. Coming from that, to a 2 TE, horizontal style offense is not easy. At all. And being behind Herndo, Welker, Branch, Gronk, and about the same level as Edelman does not help his playing time.

THAT’S why we don’t see ocho often. Our system, and who he is behind on Brady’s favorite guy’s list.

If Moss were to come here, not only would he have to learn our 2 TE horizontal offense (which would be very tough for him since he doesn’t play well in that style. See early 2010), but he would have to bump out one of Brady’s guys in Branch, or welker, or herndo, or gronk. I don’t see us getting Randy ending well.

I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP

by Jack'sAxe on Dec 9, 2011 9:47 AM EST up reply actions

But wen we had Moss

we were a vertical offense. If we had a decent deep threat, is it that unlikely that we would change back?

Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner

by New Century Silver on Dec 10, 2011 1:47 AM EST up reply actions

Zero Super Bowls with Randy in good form and with good spirits...

Now you want a guy who is three years from his last productive season, has been through more teams than touchdowns, and, last time I checked, is retired?

Yuck.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 10, 2011 11:10 PM EST up reply actions

I never said I wanted Moss...

well, I did, but not because I thought he’ll do well. See above.

My point is don’t see any reason why we couldn’t draft/go back to the vertical at some point. And I’d say our 2007 season without a doubt more successful/impressive then the Superbowl teams. In 2008 Brady was down, and in 2010 we were moving to the TE-based offense from the start of hte season Really, the only year you can fairly count as being a “failure” for the Moss/vertical offense is 2009.

Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner

by New Century Silver on Dec 11, 2011 2:24 AM EST up reply actions

Zero Super Bowls, though

The last few successful teams – Pats, Colts, Saints, Packers – aren’t really vertical schemes, although they have elements from them there. The Steelers are the only real vert scheme going, and that’s because they just PA-pass to their speedsters off the back of a strong rushing game.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 11, 2011 6:50 AM EST up reply actions

The Saints go Vertical All the Time

Taylor Price will be the starter by the end of the season (Said before Training Camp)

by Chris Kole on Dec 11, 2011 10:18 AM EST up reply actions

Thats wrong imo Comedic

But Moss is old, inconsistent (he showed that in 2010) and we will not change schemes for an old WR who is likely out of his league.

It will hurt our offense more than make it better. If we want a very good vertical threat, than I suggest to BB to trade up into the top 10 and draft one.

Its clear that this offense needs a possession WR, because those guys stick. A small, fast possession guy. But most of all, he must be very quick. THOSE guys fit our offense I believe more than a vertical threat. Notice how I say MORE THAN. In other words, a vertical threat could fit, but would take time to adjust to our scheme, and come up with plays for him.

by Jack'sAxe on Dec 11, 2011 12:52 PM EST up reply actions

No we wouldn't.

We changed to a 2 TE offense when he was here in 2010. Its here to stick.

by Jack'sAxe on Dec 11, 2011 12:47 PM EST up reply actions

I actually like the TEs alot

Gronk is hard to defend. What seems easier to stop is the small receivers, especially Branch, Woodhead, etc. What I see us as needing is not so much a deep threat, but at guys who are bigger and faster.

As a side note, don’t we seem to be having waay more long plays this year? Last year it seemed like most of our 50+ plays were kickoff/punt returns, where as now it seems as though Gronk/Welker get a 50+ every game.

Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner

by New Century Silver on Dec 11, 2011 6:27 PM EST up reply actions

Randy performs well in a vertical style offense with another speedy-ish WR next to him.

So #1, he doesn’t fit our style of offense. We run a horizontal style of offense with small, quick WRs.

#2, When he went to the Vikings, who do have a vertical style offense, and percy harvin who is a fast guy, he stunk. Not because of the QB, but because he is old, and not what he used to be.

So he is old, and can’t fit in our system. I would rather have, and play, Tiquan Underwood who is a young WR, and we don’t have to get into the media circus. And Underwood has room to learn our system.

Lets face it, Moss in 2010 SUCKED.. He dropped MORE PASSES THAN HE CAUGHT with us. And after he traded him he went to TWO TEAMS< and stunk as well. He is OLD< and NOT what he used to be.

STOP with dreaming about 2007 Moss. We DON’T need him, and he will likely whine until he bump Branch, Brady’s buddy, off the starting lineup in our 2 TE offense.

I DON’T WANT HIM.

by Jack'sAxe on Dec 9, 2011 9:43 AM EST reply actions

What is this non-sense

that Moss doesn’t fit our system. In 2010 he was in the starting line-up. He had 3 TDs in 4 games. Having him as a 3rd WR would not be a bad idea. He has got a rapport with Brady, he is at the least more familiar with the playbook than Branch was when he got here, and he will be the perfect citizen like he was in 07. I think a happy Randy Moss would upgrade over Tiquan or Ocho.

Taylor Price will be the starter by the end of the season (Said before Training Camp)

by Chris Kole on Dec 10, 2011 1:16 PM EST up reply actions

the major changes didn't happen until after they traded moss during the bye

they were running a lot of 11 (3WR-TE-RB)personnel from 2000-2010 week 4
now its a lot of 21 (2-2-1) personnel lately

New England Patriots: 9-3 against the Dolphins, Chargers, Bills, Raiders, Jets (x2), Cowboys, Steelers, Giants, Chiefs, Eagles, and Colts

by freeland1787 on Dec 10, 2011 4:25 PM EST up reply actions

Did you not remember the guy being cut, and the O working better when he was gone?

Bleh.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 10, 2011 11:11 PM EST up reply actions

who needs moss when you have gronk

gronk is just as unstoppable- no way opposing teams can cover gronk, welker, branch, hernandez, and whoever is at RB all at once. if brady has time in the pocket- no defense can stop the offense. Gronk’s (and to a certain extent, hernandez) versatility allows the patriots to run any type of play out of a 21 grouping in any formation to confuse opposing DC’s

New England Patriots: 9-3 against the Dolphins, Chargers, Bills, Raiders, Jets (x2), Cowboys, Steelers, Giants, Chiefs, Eagles, and Colts

by freeland1787 on Dec 11, 2011 1:12 AM EST up reply actions

Exept for when...

The Jets/Steelers stopped us. Back then people were saying defenses our figuring our O out, and we’ll always struggle against decent Ds.

Really, its neither. We’re not that bad when we think we’re bad and we’re not that good when we thing we’re good. Ask BB. Our O has plenty of flaws.

Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner

by New Century Silver on Dec 11, 2011 2:28 AM EST up reply actions

???

The Pats beat the Jets twice this year – with no Moss. Silly argument.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 11, 2011 6:51 AM EST up reply actions

No he has a point

It wasn’t just the Steelers that stopped us. It was the Steelers, the Giants, the Cowboys, and the Jets (from last season). So this offense has been shut down more than a couple times. i agree with Silver in that we are neither unstoppable or terrible on offense. But the thing you need your offense to be unstoppable and to have very little flaws if you are going to win in the playoffs with a bad/average D.

Taylor Price will be the starter by the end of the season (Said before Training Camp)

by Chris Kole on Dec 11, 2011 10:27 AM EST up reply actions

Randy Moss had his share of Bad games too. In 09 AND in 2010 too.

So to say any player is unstoppable is foolish really, so I agree with you here.

by Jack'sAxe on Dec 11, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions

No one is saying Randy Moss will be unstoppable

Taylor Price will be the starter by the end of the season (Said before Training Camp)

by Chris Kole on Dec 11, 2011 1:09 PM EST up reply actions

I didn't say anyone did say that.

by Jack'sAxe on Dec 11, 2011 4:16 PM EST up reply actions

Whar I'm saying is he can add

the missing component to this offense that will make IT unstoppable or close to it

Taylor Price will be the starter by the end of the season (Said before Training Camp)

by Chris Kole on Dec 11, 2011 1:11 PM EST up reply actions

No he won't.

How can a very old WR who was inconsistent in 2010, and runs routes that our offense is not based around help?

by Jack'sAxe on Dec 11, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions

The reason people say that is because..

our offense of 2007 was unstoppable. Nobody during the entire year stopped it – it was just a lucky play by Manning/bad play by the defense that caused the loss. The O did its job – put us ahead with <5 minutes to go.

Look at that egg the Packers layed yesterday – for all the praise their O gets, it too is unstoppable. The only thing we’ve seen in the last decade that is proven unstoppable is the 2007 Randy Moss/Tom Brady/Wes Welker offense. Thus, it makes sense people want to go back to it. Problem is, Moss is old now.

Its sort of like when your fifty years old, dreaming about all those hot chicks you banged in highschool. You’d love to go back to them so you go to your highschool reunion, only to realize they are just as old and fat as you are, and things aren’t as perfect as you imagined.

If we really want to go back to our deep offense, (which I’d be totally open to doing,) we’ll have to get a younger elite WR preferably through the draft.

Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner

by New Century Silver on Dec 19, 2011 1:48 PM EST up reply actions

And I would be open to getting Moss back too..

its just I don’t expect him to really do anything. I don’t think it would hurt anything to get him back and they could do it if they wanted to, but his production would probably be less then Ocho’s.

Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner

by New Century Silver on Dec 19, 2011 1:52 PM EST up reply actions

In 2010 he dropped more passes than he caught.

Welker has more TDs in 3 games than him.

A rapport with Brady? Did someone tell him that in 2010?

Branch seems to have more chemistry with Brady than Moss did. If you REALLY want to throw in 07, you count as just throwing it up in the air chemistry? Maybe a tad, but not a lot.

You expect Randy Moss 2007? LOL please. he is a lot older, and he displayed his age in 2010 with and without us. he would be more detrimental to this team than anything else (probably crying to try and start over Brady’s buddy Branch.).

by Jack'sAxe on Dec 11, 2011 12:54 PM EST up reply actions