Potential Patriots That Could Be Traded
by Ashto12 on Feb 14, 2011 9:36 AM EST
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PrintBill Belichick has never been shy about trading any of his more established veterans either before, during or after the draft. In the last few years, the Patriots have enjoyed a plethora of draft selections in the premier rounds of the draft, in part due to this strategy. Many factors come into play when deciding whether or not to execute the trade of a veteran player - contract, age, production, attitude, etc. When analysing the makeup of the current Patriots roster and how it may take shape before the players take the field for the 2011 regular season (which may be a way off yet) I wanted to see which, if any, viable trade options the Patriots have with regards to players on their own roster, and what compensation they could receive for such trades. For the purposes of this article, I am assuming of course a CBA is signed in time to have the usual draft, free agency, OTAs and training camp as scheduled.
Lets see which Patriots could be primed for a trade this offseason...
As we all know, Mankins' contract will expire after the 2010 season and he is scheduled for unrestricted free agency, should a new CBA be signed in time. It is difficult to know what the Patriots will do with Logan Mankins, since both sides are currently mute and given the murky waters of trying to determine how the franchise tag could be used (The Boston Herald recently reported the Patriots will use the franchise tag on Mankins, however, the NFLPA recently told all players any franchise tag issued before a CBA is in place might as well be used for toilet paper). Robert Kraft has recently expressed his wish to keep Mankins on the team for a long time, but as we know, if Kraft doesn't give Mankins what Mankins sees as a fair deal, the Patriot's No. 70 will want out. That being the case, I can't see the Patriots allowing Mankins to leave for nothing. He is easily a top 3 guard in the league, in his prime (will be 29 at the start of the 2011 season) and has never missed a start he has been available to play.
Likelihood of Trade: Medium/High
Compensation: 1st Round Draft Pick OR two 2nd Round Picks
Conclusion: The Patriots should expect high compensation for Mankins, given the calibre of player in his prime years. I would not be surprised if the Patriots sought compensation for the 2012 draft, similar to the Richard Seymour trade where the Patriots accept future choices, given they have lots of early picks this year.
Warren has always been a solid contributor for the Patriots, primarily as a run stuffer but he's also shown some pass rushing prowess. He is the ideal 3-4 DE and with more teams making the switch to that system, proven 5-technique DE's are a prized commodity. Warren did not play a down last year due to season ending hip surgery and given the nature of his injury, it is not clear cut how effective Warren will remain, given hip injuries can significantly reduce lower-body power. He is signed through 2013 and is scheduled to earn $3.1 million in base salary in 2011. His age is not too much of a concern since 30 is relatively young for a defensive lineman, but the Patriots do have somewhat of a log jam of left defensive ends on the roster (Brace, Gerard Warren should he be brought back) and the common consensus is the Patriots will look to draft a DE in the 2011 draft.
Likelihood of Trade: Low
Compensation: 2nd Round Draft Pick
Conclusion: The Patriots defense ranked 11th in the NFL in stopping the run at 108.0 yards per game. Whilst it is not the biggest weakness on the team, particularly at LDE, the 3-4 needs good run stoppers. Effective 3-4 Des are not easy to find, and one who is proven and relatively young, despite the season spent on IR, should not be allowed to leave the Patriots if they want to improve defensively to take the next step to the Super Bowl. Ron Brace has yet to show he can stay healthy, so I think it's close to certain that Ty Warren stays and a veteran like Gerard Warren is not retained.
Banta-Cain has developed somewhat of a reputation for putting up his stats on weaker opponents. In 2009, Banta-Cain had 5 of his 10 sacks against the Bills sieve like Offensive Line. In 2010, he had 1.5 against the Steelers, whose line consisted of primarily backups, and a sack against the Packers, a line which prior to the playoffs did not play particularly well. Banta-Cain doesn't play the run well enough to be an every down OLB and he's a bit undersized to be a DE in sub packages at only 6-2 and around 250lbs. He relies too heavily on his speed to get to the quarterback and as such, is a bit of a ‘one-trick pony.' Early in 2010, he signed a three year contract extension worth $13.5 million and his remaining base salaries for 2011 and 2012 are $2.3 million $3.8 million respectively.
Likelihood of Trade: Medium
Compensation: Late 3rd / 4th Round Draft Pick
Conclusion: Of all the players on this list, I would prefer to see Banta-Cain traded. The Patriots already have the promising Jermaine Cunningham, underrated Rob Ninkovic & Eric Moore who made plays when he came in late in the year and is physically ideal for both base and sub packages. The Patriots seem primed to draft an OLB in the upcoming draft, making Banta-Cain the potential odd one out, should the Patriots decide to go with four OLBs. In my opinion, TBC just doesn't constitute good value for the Patriots anymore. He is not consistent enough to justify the contract he signed back in March of 2010. Ironically, it may be his contract which prevents any trade, since he will only just be 31 come the start of the 2011 season and has had 15 sacks the past two seasons.
Arguably the most frustrating player on the Patriot team. Good safety play in the NFL is a prized commodity and on his day, Meriweather IS one of the best. In the past three years, when Meriweather has seen the bulk of his playing time, he's amassed 229 tackles, 12 interceptions and 4 forced fumbles and been voted to 2 Pro Bowls. He has a nose for the ball and is someone who the Patriots could pair with Patrick Chung to form one of the best safety combinations in the league for years to come. However, Meriweather regressed somewhat in 2010, not so much due to any stagnation or exposure of limited ability, but an intermittent casual attitude to preparing for games, whether it was being late for team meetings or his famous attempt at "freelancing!" I can live with the occasional dangerous hit over the middle (don't turn this into a debate!) although I don't condone it. It's the superstar attitude that Mariweather needs to adjust and going to the Pro Bowl in 2010 was probably the worst thing for his development. Meriweather has just one year remaining on his deal before he becomes a free agent (if a new CBA includes the same rules he will be an exclusive rights free agent).
Likelihood of Trade: Low
Compensation: Late 1st / 2nd Round Draft Pick
Conclusion: I personally don't think Meriweather gets traded this offseason. High level safety play in this league is just too valuable and Meriweather undoubtedly has the ability. He definitely needs to grow up and understand not just the definition of his role, but also its limitations. I am perhaps in the minority in saying Meriweather deserves another chance to prove his worth to the team long term as his talent in my opinion dictates such a chance and he is not a Moss-like distraction at the moment and seems a well liked guy on the team. Ultimately, down the line, I can see an Asanthe Samuel-esque fall out once Meriweather's contract expires, particularly if he doesn't improve his attitude. However, this offseason, Meriweather stays.
The views expressed in these FanPosts are not necessarily those of the writers or SBNation.
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If they get offered a 2nd for Meriweather,
from anyone, TAKE IT BILL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
by insertscreenname on Feb 14, 2011 9:44 AM EST reply actions
I understand why people are so down on Meriweather
but the guy is still young, learning one of the most difficult positions in the NFL. Yes, he needs to mature, but his ability which he has shown by and large is outstanding. Obviously he has had some mental errors during games and he needs to obsorb the coaching a bit more, but he surely deserves another year or two to mature more. Top level safeties are not easy to find.
by Ashto12 on Feb 14, 2011 10:48 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I can agree with this - though he's also past the years of growth in the NFL
Most players grow most between 1-2 and 2-3 years in the NFL. To that point we are seeing what we’ll get from Merriweather mostly until the next phase, which in my book is trade, injury or other unforeseen changes.
He’s a two time pro bowler who agreeably can still improve but unfortunately for me where he needs to change seem like fundamental and mental area’s that most players either have or don’t have.
In this book he’s a lot like Asante was for me – good enough for his current contract, but not his next. I don’t think you trade him but you don’t resign him either.
I also wonder whether Corwin Brown was one of the problems
He was only with the Pats in 2010, and that was the year Meriweather decided freelancing was clever. Rumours were swirling that Corwin Brown wasn’t a very good coach – he was D-backs coach and directly oversaw Meriweather – and he wasn’t invited back.
Who have they replaced Corwin Brown with? Matt Patricia, one of the top-2 D coaches on the team. And he’s focusing specifically on Safeties. I can’t help but think they’re putting one of their better coaches specifically on top of the Safeties (which is a deep and talented pool of players) in order to extract the best performance out of one of their stronger position units.
For that reason, I think they might keep Meriweather, in order to hone his talent and eliminate his penchant for crazy plays.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit
by Comedic.Sans on Feb 14, 2011 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
You may have a point. i was watching an old video last week with Meriweather talking
about Brown’s influence on his game at the Safety position. He figured Brown was ideal due to the fact that Brown himself new first hand about that position. Too bad we couldn’t get Woodson (now in Oakland) to be a DB coach.
Don't cut your locks Tom Terrific!
Life is about who makes it, not who makes it the fastest! Drive slow homie.
Cornflakes also doesn't have a very long tenure at any coaching stop
he’s sort of bounced around the coaching ranks, that sort of leads toward a teaching issue as well perhaps
Trade Ty Warren?
I have to disagree. He will provide stability and a 3-down linemen alongside Wilfork. Out line won’t be giving every single defensive scheme away with who it has in.
I didn't say they would trade him nor should they
I think the should keep him without a doubt, but the reason he’s on here is that we’ve seen before with Richard Seymour that if BB thinks he can get good value for a player who is expendable, he will go for it.
With Warren - injuries are a serious concern
He actually could be cut or traded this year depending on what the draft and FA markets bring to the Dline….and depending on if there is a season.
Warren is great but that’s a big contract for a guy who has had some big injuries in the past couple years – if he’s not 100% or they get 80% his performance for 40% his cost in the draft or FA – he’s at risk.
none of these are remotely feasible
for the trade compensation you quote. nobody will give up a 1st and a huge contract for mankins. Or a 2nd for ty warren coming of surgery. and a 1st or 2nd for meriweather is a sick joke- the people in the personnel dept around the league would never put him near a pro bowl. dream on. why dose every fan lose his mind when projecting trade with his teams players??
leave the gun, take the connolis
by injuredrightshoulder on Feb 14, 2011 11:07 AM EST reply actions
Lose their mind?
Mankins – First team all pro, maybe the best guard in the league, never injured, in his prime…yeah no way would he be worth a first round pick.
Warren – Market for 3-4 DEs via trade is limited but market was set by Richard Seymour. If the Patriots got a 1st rounder for Seymour, it is FEASIBLE they get a 2nd for Warren, provided he clears medicals with no issues. Good 3-4 DEs aren’t easy to find. Why do you think in current Mock’s guys like Dareus, Jordan and JJ Watt are being touted as 1st rounders? Not just talent but because teams value talented 3-4 DEs.
Meriweather – Talented, ball hawking safeties are just not easy to find. You can put ‘ball hawking saftey’ in with DE and OLB as positions which are hard to project talent from the draft. In particular, the 2011 draft class is a weak one for safety talent, so Meriweather’s value in the trade market goes up…simple supply and demand! Perhaps in other offseasons where the draft is full of talented safeties, his value would not be so high. Are you honestly telling me a team like Dallas, desparate for Safety help, wouldnt offer its 2nd rounder for Meriweather?
Using a phrase like “not remotely feasible” is…well…not remotely feasible when you consider there are such poorely run teams around the league such as the Raiders, Redskins etc who do not place as much a premium on draft picks as they do on ‘winning now!’
Agree everywhere except Warren
I don’t see a 2nd for him. Seymour set the market, but is also a very different player. Warren is a solid veteran DE, but he’s not an all pro caliber DE at this point – 3rd or 4th is more likely for him considering contract and injuries.
Mankins can bring a 1st, he’ll have to if the current CBA and Franchise tagging sticks and he doesn’t sign with the Pats.
Merriweather – better value to keep then trade, though in either case it’s not ideal value
rose coloured glasses
Mankins Is a total Beast, In his prime. Great player (I hope we sign him to a long term deal)-
However- a players trade value in determined to many other things which you completely neglect- mainly contract status- Mankins will want a huge contract from any club that signs him so 50mil and a 1st rounders is very high for a guard. Plus with the friction between the sides why wouldn’t you wait and just pay him 50 mil next year with no lost of a 1st rounder? Mankins may just shoot his way outta town and patriots night just accept much less in terms of compensation this year. He specifically came back this year to have another accrued year to free agency now he gets the franchise tag- there is a very good chance it will not be binding. the players association may very well bat for him – as of now he is not under contract – not a patriot.
leave the gun, take the connolis
by injuredrightshoulder on Feb 15, 2011 12:26 AM EST up reply actions
rose coloured glasses 2
WARREN- i disagree with much of what you wrote here and you didn’t write that much. firstly the market being set by Seymour. Seymour is a total beast at a high impact position – one of the best to ever play the position. The patriots got a 1st rounder TWO draft years later – maybe the chances of a rookie wage scale made that more attractive but i would also point out that, even at the time of the seymour trade all signs pointed to the 2010 draft class being incredibly deep. anyway seeing that trading out usually involves jump of one round (the 2010 2nd rounds would have really been worth a 2011 1st) then you could say that seymour trade ‘set the market’ at a 2nd round pick. also, again, contracts- seymour was in the last year of a front loaded contract which saw him on a salary of 4 mil which considering him play is the level of 10-15 plus mil then Al Davis was getting a sizable discount to have seymour play for a year and controls his right last nfl season with the franchise tag then wait for the new CBA. There were some very opportune things about the timing and size of seymours contract that made that deal a reality. None of these things applies to Warren’s situation. Warren got a large contract extension after his best season and seems to be fairly steady (not front nor back loaded) Hard to tell due to confidential escalators but Warren seems to be on between 5-6.5 mil until 2013.
SO he signed a fairly flat contract when his stock was high followed it by 2 fairly underwhelming years (possible hip problems?) and now has hip surgery. Who would ever put their club on the line for a player who has been average the last two years and is now coming off hip surgery with a fairly pricey contract??? there is no precedent for a player missing an entire year of football – undergoing major surgery then being traded for a high draft pick without playing a down for over a year. (with a sizable contract to boot).
leave the gun, take the connolis
by injuredrightshoulder on Feb 15, 2011 12:40 AM EST up reply actions
Rose coloured glasses 3
T.BC – Having one of the most charmed nfl careers ever. This guy gets like 2.5mil a sack. how the patriots a part of this story of one of the most over paid under preforming players in the nfl is really lost on me. speaks volumes of their most mismanaged position of the last 5 years- OLB.
T.BC seems like a really nice guy and i like the fact he got his. but the notion there is a 3rd club lining up to be bilked and would give draft compensation for the pleasure of T.BC’s company is far fetched.
Tully is not a starter is a pretty poor 3rd down pass rusher, can’t set the edge, not good against the run, poor in coverage. reasonable special teamer. Sucked at two franchises has had two ok years both of which he managed to parley into very nice contracts.
bottom line – he sucks (he is the reason everybody sees a pass rushing OLB as our biggest need), he is not worth the salary he has remaining and now has failed to live up to expectations for two nfl clubs. Much closer to getting cut than traded – a 7th from some desperado club would be the biggest contribution he would have made to the pats all season.
leave the gun, take the connolis
by injuredrightshoulder on Feb 15, 2011 1:08 AM EST up reply actions
Rose coloured glasses 4
here are the same comment I wrote below about Meriweather-
Meriweather to the pro bowl was a joke. Made by fans and players who do not watch all the film who voted for him on recognition of the 1st (undeserved) pro bowl apperance and sports centers showing his big hit.
I THINK personnel people looking at all meriwether’s tape would see an average safety who takes bad angles, is very bad at tackling, gambles and loses to often and lost his starting job to a quite average safety in james sanders. seems to be projecting downwards and dose’nt seem like the smartest cookie in the pack.
So that is why I don’t THINK personnel people would put him in the pro bowl and for the same reasons i don’t think they would give up a 1st or 2nd for him.
leave the gun, take the connolis
by injuredrightshoulder on Feb 15, 2011 1:33 AM EST up reply actions
I need to make a distinction here...
Meriweather to the Pro Bowl a joke? Absolutely. Meriweather the player? No joke, the guy is a really good player when he turns it on, which admittedly has been inconsistent whilst he has still matured. Saying that Meriweather loses too often shows nothing but ignorance to the stats and indeed the tape you refer to. Cold Hard Football Facts have a stat for ‘Bendability of a Defense’ - that is how hard a team makes it for opponents to score. As the central piece to the secondary, if Meriweather misses too often, the Patriots would give up countless big plays and long touchdowns – on the CHFF list, the Pats rank 4th, pretty good really and indicating they make it very hard for opponents to score and limit the big plays.
It is easy to jump on the bandwagon and criticise a player but at least look at some analysis or provide some to back up your point.
stats are for losers
pats play a ‘soft 4’ defense a lot which is very close to a prevent defense keeping everything in front of them. there are plenty of god awful defensive stats i could throw out here. the fact that the pats gave up plenty (read disgustingly huge amounts) of intermediate plays instead of really big ones is all about scheme. not great safety play.
leave the gun, take the connolis
by injuredrightshoulder on Feb 15, 2011 2:17 AM EST up reply actions
Never been a quote taken out of context more than that one
“stats are for losers” – you must be joking! You cannot just hurl out a broad spectrum quote and assume it applies to all stats…it doesn’t. And most stats, to a certain extent, are an indicator of some sort. The stat I used isn’t wholly indicative of good safety play but does indicate that Patriot safeties are doing their jobs. If indeed the Patriots do play a lot of ‘soft 4’ as you put it, then that would indicate Meriweather is doing whats asked of him…keep everything infront of him, pick off errant throws etc. The intermediate throws would perhaps be more on the ILBs not getting deep enough in their zones. He can only do what’s asked of him.
part of the reason
the safeties play ‘off’ so far is that they are not trusted to be closer thus the many many many many intermediate plays, 3rd down stats passing yards stats are also quite reflective of average safety play,
You are using one obscure stat about an entire defense to rate one player – that is why your stat is for losers
leave the gun, take the connolis
by injuredrightshoulder on Feb 15, 2011 8:17 AM EST up reply actions
The reason the safeties and the whole defense plays so far off
is because they are all barely out of college. The Patriots had the youngest and least experienced secondary in the league last year and you expect BB to install a full, complex secondary package for them to play? No, instead he had the safeties playing soft zone to allow for a safety net for the young corners. I’d say therefore they safeties did a pretty decent job since our corners were not beaten long too often considering their age.
As for the obscure stat, I actually said “The stat I used isn’t wholly indicative of good safety play but does indicate that Patriot safeties are doing their jobs” – I’m not just talking about Meriweather but the safety group as a whole and they are doing their jobs limiting big plays, acting as a safety net for the corners.
Yes and no.
Check the bendability index. Top 2 teams? Green Bay #1, Pittsburgh Steelers #2.
Pretty interesting coincidence, right?
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit
by Comedic.Sans on Feb 15, 2011 4:16 AM EST up reply actions
rose coloured glasses 2
Put their club on the line? For a second round pick? So you’re saying the Patriots are in dire straits because they missed on Terrence Weatley…a second round pick?
The issue with Warren needs examining more from a market trend point of view…in 2004, only four teams in the league used the 3-4 as a base defense. In 2010, 15 teams used the 3-4 defense. Increase in the usage of the 3-4 (which may increase again this year) expedites the need for good linemen. If there is a proven talent out there, available for trade, then the value of a PROVEN 3-4 DE will be much higher than it was in say 2004…AGAIN supply and demand…the demand for proven talent is high but the supply is limited so the value goes up, simple economics. The value of a good 3-4 DE is higher now than it was even at the start of 2009, because more teams use the 3-4 defense than they did even then.
Totally missing the point again
Picking a player in the draft who fails (at least not in the top 10) is less damaging than trading for a veteran player who turns into a bust. when you trade a draft pick for a player the trade you suggest for Warren you have years of tape of him preforming at a level which makes you comfortable the he is worth a large contract he is playing out. You also give up the draft pick which can be a lottery but if you hit – you hit big and get a excellent play for a cheap 4-5 year contract giving you enormous flexibility for the rest of your roster. the top teams in the modern NFL need player from the draft out playing their cheap rookie contracts to be competitive. Also when you do this sort of trade you assume that your getting a starter and you build the rest of your roster accordingly. So when the season comes around and you realize you have a bust you are in dire straits. From Most rookies a club can handle not getting enormous contributions from in that first year (although the hopes of the fan base can be high) – we all know rookies have a high bust rate and have contingency plans – for proven vets less so.
So in this trade – a team gives up a second for ty warren taking on his 6 mil salary for a year and assuming their DE depth chart has +1 starter.
Ty Warren who has played underwhelmingly for the last two years, has had injury problems, has not played since the 2009 season, coming off hip surgery.
Your the Gm of this team - your have happily watched the 2nd round of the draft go by without picking, you have happily singed this guys pay slip and you have addressed other position needs for your team knowing you should be ok at DE.- yeah you are in dire straits.
BUt Ty Warren is not 100% he only 50% not good enough even to start -
missing with a second rounder that you hoped but didn’t fully depend on is far less damaging and the rewards are higher when you hit
leave the gun, take the connolis
by injuredrightshoulder on Feb 15, 2011 2:59 AM EST up reply actions
I appreciate your point but you are assuming a 'risk aversion' mentality is one which dominates
NFL GMs. As we know, all GMs weigh risk but a number would just as easily look at it from the other angle. Giving up a second for a proven player (his contract is not a franchise level contract) who has a number of years left on his contract with relatively consistent, successful production is not, as risks go, the risk you make it out to be.
Also, one thing: justify the comment that Warren has “played underwhelmingly” for the last two years.
Really??? You are really need me to back that up?
look it up! 2008- hernia and groin injuries missed 3 games, 41 tackles, 2 sacks.
2009 ankle injuries missed four games – 46 tackles, 1 sack.
there ya stats- why don’t you watch how he played in the last 2 years — he was no where close to his 2005-6 form
I’m sure if you serch hard enough you may find some obscure stat from some football nerd website to prove he was the greatest player around but it just isn’t so
leave the gun, take the connolis
by injuredrightshoulder on Feb 15, 2011 7:47 AM EST up reply actions
Obscure stat here for you...
Vince Wilfork 2009 Tackles – 43, Sacks – 0
Vince Wilfork last four year average – 53.5 Tackles, 1.5 sacks
Vince Wilfork career average – 51.5 tackles, 2 sacks
I supposed he’s been underwhelming too?
Unlike some 3-4 teams, the Patriots play a 2-gap system, where the defensive linemen are responsible for tying up offensive linemen and allowing the linebackers to run to the ball carrier and make more tackles. Perhaps the more indicative stats would be things like:
Jerod Mayo – Career Av Tackles Per Season – 134
Tedy Bruschi – Averaged 100 tackles per year from when Warren was with the team
Gary Guyton – 85 tackles in 2009 as a starter!
It’s precisely why it is not a glory position because you hardly get noticed. A few weeks back Wilfork commented how good it will be to have Warren next to him again in the lineup…you think he’s saying that because they’re BFF? Its becuase Wilfork understands when a fellow lineman is doing his job well.
Come on, Wilfork sucks
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
by insertscreenname on Feb 15, 2011 8:18 PM EST up reply actions
no you really are missing my point
i am not assuming a ‘risk aversion’ mentality in nfl GMs.
My point is the bigger risk is the draft which are we all know is hit and miss but a good few hits can have you where the pats are now -getting enormous value out of player like vollmer, gronk, McCorrty etc which could set them up nicely for the future.
Where as trading is much less risk as the player is ususally a proven vet and for 1st or 2 nd round pick those player have a far lower bust rate than the draft – however the effect of failure when you trade are much greater.
I hope Ty Warren comes back with all his injuries fully healed and plays at his 2006 and 2007 level then he would probably be worth a 1st rounder in a trade.
However as of now he is coming off two mediocre, injury riddled years-followed by a missed year with a hip surgery. So i believe that he is far to big a risk for any potential trade partner.
leave the gun, take the connolis
by injuredrightshoulder on Feb 15, 2011 8:56 AM EST up reply actions
"The effect of failure when you trade are much greater"
I am not missing your point. You’re saying the effect of a failed trade is greater than the effect of a poor draft choice with that selection. Therefore, you are indirectly assigning risk and saying “it’s more damaging to the franchise if we fail with this trade than if we fail with a draft choice.” Are you telling me that not one team in the league would not give up, say, a late 2nd round pick for Warren because they think it’s more damaging to their franchise than taking a flier on a draft choice that could turn out to be a bust at that spot?
Remember, Ty Warren has a managable contract, which doesn’t expire anytime soon, giving a potential trade partner some longer term security.
We totally disagree or the 'risk' factor Warren is
warren 06-7 average 84 tackles, 6 sacks
warren 08-9 average 44 tackles 1.5 sacks
Warren has been no where near the player is was in his last two playing years.
His career trajectory was on a horrible down turn before he had to have hip surgery – this is why i think he is too much risk for a team to trade for. You seem to think that there is little risk he will not be healthy or productive next year and by that time it would have been 4 years since Warren was a high level starter in the nfl
leave the gun, take the connolis
by injuredrightshoulder on Feb 15, 2011 5:05 PM EST up reply actions
Firstly, he doesn't want 50 million, he basically wants the same contract Jahri Evans got from the saints
And yes, whilst trade values are dictated by things such as a players expectancy of a big contract, that will not stop some team from potentially offering a first round pick. Why not wait until Mankins actually hits the market? Because then you are in competition with every other team in the league potentially…if offering a first round pick for Mankins would remove you from that competition giving you possibly the best guard in the league, then someone will do it. Furthermore, the compensation I indicate is not what a team will give up but rather what the Patriots should accept as value…if a team doesn’ want to give up a first…then no trade. Easy.
Also, whilst the franchise tag may not hold water at the moment, it also holds true that these players can’t go and negotiate free agent deals with other teams whilst there is no new CBA. You have to believe when a new CBA is signed, teams will then be allowed to apply the franchise tag to the Mankins and Woodleys in the league. So really, it doesn’t make much difference.
Jahri Evans has a 56 million contract
Yes i get your point about the competition part of waiting for a guy to become a free agent – however the question is this – how much money in nfl terms is a 1st rounder worth??? because whatever the answer to that question is has to be added to mankins contract. Some team has to give him the jahri evans contract plus a 1st rounder?
So that why i think if you wanted to give him the evan contract wait a year offer it to him then and if he goes eomewhere else then invest in someone else.
leave the gun, take the connolis
by injuredrightshoulder on Feb 15, 2011 1:59 AM EST up reply actions
Remember Brandon Marshall?
Huge character concerns, and yet even though his contract was up, he got traded for 2 2nds and got a record contract. So there’s obviously precedent for it, because teams know if they don’t trade for him, they have to wait another year (franchise tag) just to bid for him in FA, or watch him get traded to someone else. You just need to find one team that thinks they need a ‘quick fix’ at o line.
Meriweather for a 2nd isn’t that crazy either. How do you know what the personnel people think? Sure, he didn’t have a Pro Bowl season, but he’s an All-Star talent, and there’s enough front office guys in the league who would easily take that chance. Last year Taylor Mays was drafted in the 2nd round, and freak talent who had trouble putting it all together on the field. I would argue that trading that pick for Meriweather instead of drafting Mays would be a better strategy, because relatively speaking, Meriweather is more of a sure thing, having shown that he is at least capable of playing safety at a high level. Draft picks are far from guaranteed All-Stars.
Meriweather would be more valuable to a team that allows its FS to roam.
Meriweather struggles to play within his assigned role, I think. Because Belichick uses the BDB approach to defense, he doesn’t give his safeties too discretion to fly around and “free lance.” In a system where freelancing is encouraged (e.g. Pittsburgh or Baltimore), Meriweather could have a much more positive impact.
At the same time, I might be putting the carriage before the horse – maybe those teams let their safeties freelance because they are so talented. A less talented safety needs to be reigned in so as to avoid giving up huge plays over the top. If Meriweather were THAT talented, I don’t see why BB would be arbitrarily holding him back (cue “because BB is an angry control freak who will destroy anything and everything just to get his way” response). Who knows. If he goes, I won’t miss him. If he stays, I hope to see less of him.
One problem with that is that as much as Meriweather bites on play action, he can't really freelance.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
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by SlotMachinePlayer on Feb 14, 2011 8:35 PM EST up reply actions
Sticking him behind Reed,
And tell him no matter what, don’t come up to the line.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
by insertscreenname on Feb 14, 2011 8:38 PM EST up reply actions
how do I know what the personnel people think???
I don’t- Obviously. I am not one of them. the article of the post here is- potential player trades so the writer is PRETENDING that he is a personnel guy and is encouraging us to do the same. You, yourself are trying to think like a personnel people in your post.
SO- it’s ok for you and the author of this post to give opinions of what they would do if they were personnel people and speculate what real personnel people would do – but when I do it I am showing unmitigated audacity??? you hypocrite.
Here are my reasons for thinking that real personnel people would not put meriweather in the pro bowl or trade a 1st/2nd round pick for him.
Meriweather to the pro bowl was a joke. Made by fans and players who do not watch all the film who voted for him on recognition of the 1st (undeserved) pro bowl apperance and sports centers showing his big hit.
I THINK personnel people looking at all meriwether’s tape would see an average safety who takes bad angles, is very bad at tackling, gambles and loses to often and lost his starting job to a quite average safety in james sanders. seems to be projecting downwards and dose’nt seem like the smartest cookie in the pack.
So that is why I don’t THINK personnel people would put him in the pro bowl and for the same reasons i don’t think they would give up a 1st or 2nd for him. Brandon Marshall has the talent meriwether could only dream of.
leave the gun, take the connolis
by injuredrightshoulder on Feb 14, 2011 10:50 PM EST up reply actions
why dose every fan lose his mind when projecting trade with his teams players??
Because every so often a team will foster crazy trade ideas and turn them into reality.
May I present: Roy Williams, traded from the Lion to the Cowboys in exchange for a first-round, third-round and 6th round picks of the 2009 draft, and then signed to a 6-year, $54m contract ($26m guaranteed).
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit
by Comedic.Sans on Feb 14, 2011 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
That might be the most one-sided trade I've seen.
The difference between that and Moss for a 4th was that the Moss that left Oakland was worth a 4th. Roy Williams was not worth anything near that, and the Cowboys decided to throw the Lions a bone.
EVH+DLR=BFFs........ God I Hope So!!
You must really love us :)
Don't cut your locks Tom Terrific!
Life is about who makes it, not who makes it the fastest! Drive slow homie.
You're always here lol
Don't cut your locks Tom Terrific!
Life is about who makes it, not who makes it the fastest! Drive slow homie.
That's true. BBS-world isn't the same without most of the old guys
so my Colts commenting is mostly on 18to88.com.
It’s fun to play the contrarian. That said, after the Colts and Raiders, rooting against hte Pats comes next.
EVH+DLR=BFFs........ God I Hope So!!
You must be to young to remember the Hershel Walker trade...
I figured the Roy Williams trade was the Cowboy’s karma coming back into balance.
I am too young to remember that trade, but yeah, that one was pretty bad
Dallas wins some and losses some I guess.
EVH+DLR=BFFs........ God I Hope So!!
No worries
At least YOU won’t have to worry about being banned on HERE for playing the contrarian. :) I’m sure you get what I mean, hah.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit
by Comedic.Sans on Feb 15, 2011 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
fair enough
has anyone got jerry jones’ number? i have a old gym shoe, some leftover pizza and a duran duran cassette which could be his for just a 3rd round pick
leave the gun, take the connolis
by injuredrightshoulder on Feb 15, 2011 3:18 AM EST up reply actions
Duran Duran?
The band so nice they named it twice?
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Official Fire-Puncher for Pats Pulpit an SB Nation Blog
by SlotMachinePlayer on Feb 15, 2011 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
Compensations seem high
If you bump them all back 1/2 a round draft pick, it makes more sense. I would take a 1st or mid-2nd for Merriweather any day and I’m a supporter of his around these parts. But, I think the talent they have backing him up is capable enough. Without considering backup talent, he has more value on the team than trying to fill the role via draft or FA.
I would hate to lose Mankins. They ran the ball much better with him and running the ball needs to be more prevalent next year unless we want to continue evolving in the Colts – with Colts style early playoff exits.
As far as safeties go, we or at least hopefully, we will
Page, Sanders, Meriweather, Brown, and Chung. That is 5 safeties to go with i’ll say at this time, McCourty, Bodden, Arrington, Wilhite, and Butler. 10 DB’s? I like Brown, but he isn’t proven. Some can argue neither is Meriweather. But neither is Chung while we’re t it. Chung was great in the first half of the season, until he pulled a Tate. My point in all this is, somethings gotta give. Maybe we’ll get rid of Butler or Wilhite for the CB’s or get rid of a pricey Sanders or a “Freelancing” yet talented Meriweather. Hopefully we get the clean end of the stick in the end.
Don't cut your locks Tom Terrific!
Life is about who makes it, not who makes it the fastest! Drive slow homie.
A few of these guys are still PS-eligible
Don’t forget the safeties on IR – Barrett and McGowan. Barrett, I don’t know much about. He was worth grabbing from the Broncos waivers, so there must be something there. Page and McGowan play the same role (TE eater), so, the better one probably stays, with the other one most likely traded. Sanders should get a reworked contract (or a new one), Chung, Brown can go on the PS, and Meriweather, eh. Either way with him.
So Page/McGowan, Sanders, Chung, Meriweather, (Barrett, once we know what he can do) would be my 4 or 5 Ss.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
by insertscreenname on Feb 14, 2011 8:37 PM EST up reply actions
Also look to STs
Page and McGowan play core ST roles – punt and kick coverage, punt and kick return units. Arrington does too, as does McCourty. Slater, that’s his only job.
Barrett and Bret Lockett are apparently ST mavens, so they’d be competing with Slater, and to a lesser extent Page and/or McGowan. Page clearly has the most upside of all the Safeties-who-play STs, so he’s probably safe if he wants to return. The rest might be duking it out for one spot, maybe two. Hoodie might also try to slide one or two of the young’uns onto the PS if he can.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit
by Comedic.Sans on Feb 14, 2011 9:03 PM EST up reply actions
No way in Hades Chung clears waivers, let alone survives on the PS without being signed.
I’m not even sure he’s eligible, given he’s been active and started a certain amount of games.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit
by Comedic.Sans on Feb 14, 2011 9:04 PM EST up reply actions
I meant, Chung; Brown goes to PS
Sorry for any confusion
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
by insertscreenname on Feb 14, 2011 9:38 PM EST up reply actions
No way Sergio Brown clears waivers.
He played decent this season.
Non Sibi Sed Patriae ;I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Cameron Heyward-Future 3-4 RDE for the New England Patriots
Jets org and fans-bunch of trash talking & snitching inbreds trollops!
He might clear them...
depends who’s Safety-hungry and who else is on the market – sometime a young guy will slip just because they might think he’s a one-hit wonder. Darius Butler played pretty well a a rook, for instance…
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit
by Comedic.Sans on Feb 14, 2011 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
I like browns energy
He was very energetic when he was on the field. In meriweathers words a “hype” man, he seems like a guy that loves to play football and he was top 3 I believe in ST tackles. This leads me to believe he will be around come september.
He was on the board
WR Matthew Slater — 21 tackles (15 solo, 6 assisted)
LB Tracy White — 18 tackles (9 solo, 9 assisted)
CB Kyle Arrington — 16 tackles (13 solo, 3 assisted)
CB Devin McCourty — 12 tackles (11 solo, 1 assisted)
RB Sammy Morris — 12 tackles (8 solo, 4 assisted)
OLB Rob Ninkovich — 11 tackles (6 solo, 5 assisted)
LB Dane Fletcher — 11 tackles (10 solo, 1 assisted)
RB Danny Woodhead — 10 tackles (10 solo, 0 assisted)
S Patrick Chung — 8 tackles (6 solo, 2 assisted)
S Jarrad Page — 6 tackles (3 solo, 3 assisted)
S James Sanders — 4 tackles (1 solo, 1 assisted)
S Sergio Brown — 3 tackles (2 solo, 1 assisted)
RB BenJarvus Green-Ellis — 3 tackles (2 solo, 1 assisted)
LB Gary Guyton — 3 tackles (2 solo, 1 assisted)
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit
by Comedic.Sans on Feb 15, 2011 12:36 AM EST up reply actions
I remember one of Brown's being a kill-shot on a returner..
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit
by Comedic.Sans on Feb 15, 2011 12:37 AM EST up reply actions
Nah, it's all good
He was in the coverage unit, and more often than not if one of the guys like White or Morris got the tackle it was because guys like Brown held their line and hounded the returner into line for the hit. Arrington, McCourty and Slater were gunners on the punt unit, so their tackle count is different – a lot more solo tackles because they’re one-on-one with the returner. Ninkovich, Morris and White had a lot of ‘assisted’ tackles because Brown pushed returners into traffic.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit
by Comedic.Sans on Feb 15, 2011 4:19 AM EST up reply actions
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