Patriots Draft 2011: With the 28th Pick...
Over at Mocking the Draft, our friends are hosting an NFL Mock Draft. Cameron O helped out and did a fantastic job. At 28th overall, the Patriots appeared to be in a great spot. Potential OLB prospect Ryan Kerrigan was dropping down the board, until the Ravens scooped him at #26- specifically so the Patriots couldn't grab him. Cameron O and I talked about a bunch of different possibilities at this spot. The following players were still on the board:
Cameron Heyward, DE, Ohio State
Muhammad Wilkerson, DE, Temple
Phil Taylor, DE/NT, Baylor
Stefen Wisniewski, C, Penn State
Mikel Leshoure, RB, Illinois
Jimmy Smith, CB, Colorado
Brandon Harris, CB, Miami
We had a tough selection on our hands. We didn't believe that Wisniewski presented enough value to take him at #28, so we took him out of the running. We also believed that Leshoure could drop to #33 if we wanted him since only the Packers were really a threat to draft him. We reasoned that because there were three defensive end prospects, at least one of them would be remaining at #33. I specifically stated that Cameron Heyward would be on the board at #33 so I convinced Cameron O to look in a different direction. Silly me- Heyward was taken #30 by the Jets.
Therefore, we debated between the two cornerbacks. I wanted Harris. Cameron wanted Smith.
With the 28th overall pick of the 2011 NFL Draft, the New England Patriots select:
Jimmy Smith, CB, Colorado
Read the analysis after the jump!
Here at the Pulpit, we've talked about how the cornerback position is a big question mark when looking at the draft. There's Devin McCourty, who should be a stud for years to come. However, after that, we're not sure what the team has. Leigh Bodden will be returning from injury, but if he returns to his peak the defense will excel. If not? We'll be looking at a repeat of last season's secondary. There's Kyle Arrington who filled in admirably all last season, but he struggled to defend the deep pass and was unable to turn around his head when the ball was in the air. He's greatly improved, but I, personally, would not feel comfortable if he was the #2 cornerback and played at the same level as last season. There's Darius Butler who has not reached his potential and seems to be sitting at the bottom of the cornerback depth chart. Finally, there's Jonathan Wilhite who is on the bubble and returning from a season ending injury.
What happens if Leigh Bodden doesn't recover from his injury to play at a high level? What if Kyle Arrington peaked last season, which led to his benching? What if Darius Butler doesn't put everything together? What if Jonathan Wilhite...is Jonathan Wilhite?
The pick comes between Smith and Harris. Here's a case for both:
Brandon Harris, 5-11, 195 lbs.
Run Defense: Willing run defender. Doesn't wrap up tackle, which could lead to problems in the NFL.
Pass Defense: Better covering one on one, instead of playing in the zone scheme. Makes the tackle instead of the interception.
Intangibles: Weak tackler. Takes some poor angles. Opposing quarterbacks stopped throwing at him over the course of the season. Great locker room player.
Jimmy Smith, 6-2, 205 lbs.
Run Defense: Willing run defender. Sometimes bites on the play action, but he can recover. Sometimes struggles to disengage from blockers.
Pass Defense: Breaks up passes in the air because of his size. Great in zone and in man.
Intangibles: Willing tackler who needs to improve on disengaging from blocks. Thrown at 20 times his senior season, breaking up 25%. Special teams player. Blazing fast.
I honestly thought it was a toss-up between the two players. The more I watch Smith, the more I like his game. Harris is always consistent. My comparisons? I feel like Harris is like a bigger Darius Butler. I think Smith compares well to a larger Kyle Arrington. However, Smith is better in coverage, while Arrington is a little better in run defense. After research, I couldn't help but think that Smith would be a great fit for the defense.
I believe that the Green Bay Packers showed the importance of having multiple elite cornerbacks in an increasingly passer-oriented league. Taking Smith would give the Patriots one of the better secondaries in the league with McCourty and Bodden as the lockdown corners and Smith as the 3rd DB, in a semi-safety position. Remember last season how Pat Chung struggled to play at nickelback? Well, Smith would allow Chung to move back to his safety spot and Smith could take the coverage duties.
Smith also would allow the Patriots to part ways with Jonathan Wilhite, or trade Butler or Arrington, while keeping considerable depth on the roster. The Patriots can't keep all of the cornerbacks, but the secondary is one injury away from a defense akin to 2009 and 2010- solid, but not elite. Having Smith on the roster gives the Patriots three potentially elite caliber cornerbacks in Smith, Bodden and McCourty and two depth players in Arrington and Butler. That's a secondary I can believe in.
I understand if some people aren't happy with the selection of a cornerback. After all, there are plenty on the roster and there are much more pressing needs. I wouldn't have been upset with taking Phil Taylor at #28 and Mikel Leshoure at #33, but we knew the Patriots had to take a defensive lineman. The other draft pick was a luxury selection. The question is which player has more additional value for the Patriots?
Will Leshoure play enough on the offense to outweigh the impact of Smith on defense? Possibly- possibly not. There are other running backs who would be available later, but there are also plenty of cornerbacks. This draft has pretty comparable depth in respect to cornerback and running back (after Patrick Peterson and Prince Amukamara). A couple top prospects in Mark Ingram and Leshoure, and Harris and Smith, then plenty of depth in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.
Looking back, I might not have gone this route in the draft. So far, the Patriots have a tackle in Derek Sherrod at #17 and a cornerback at #28 in Jimmy Smith. Personally, I might prefer the following draft:
17. Anthony Castonzo, OT, Boston College
28. Phil Taylor, DL, Baylor
33. Mikel Leshoure, RB, Illinois
However, I honestly cannot complain with the positions of the players drafted. There are a lot of players that would fit very well with the Patriots and I would be extremely happy if the Patriots traded down from the 17th spot, especially in this mock draft, to pick up another early second round pick. The level of player at #17 overall is extremely similar to player #37 in this draft- and trading down can save money and add more draft picks. Instead of picks at #17, #28 and #33, imagine the damage the Patriots could do at #28, #29, #33, and #35. Those four picks could elevate this team to the next level.
Looking at the Smith pick, I'd give it around a B-/B. I believe that in this mock draft scenario the Patriots would trade down, but since we had to take a player, Smith is about as good as it would get at this spot. There are no OLBs worth taking and under the expectation that a DE would drop to #33, the #28 player would be a luxury.
What do you think?
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Where's the hell no button?
Don't cut your locks Tom Terrific!
Life is about who makes it, not who makes it the fastest! Drive slow homie.
by PatNation85 on Feb 20, 2011 12:16 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
Smith is a carbon copy of another CB we know and love...
I’ve heard comparisons of him to Samuel. No thanks.
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Feb 20, 2011 8:21 PM EST up reply actions
Really?
I haven’t seen the Samuel comparison and they have completely different games. Samuel always goes for the pick, while Smith would rather take the PBU and stop the play.
by Richard Hill on Feb 20, 2011 8:35 PM EST up reply actions
Whoops, wrong CB.
Not Smith, Brandon Harris. Brandon Harris is the carbon copy of Samuel.
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Feb 20, 2011 9:06 PM EST up reply actions
this^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jets fans- Supporting drunk driving since Braylon Edwards arrest.
The NFL is going to investigate the behavior of New York Jets players who reportedly made a female reporter feel "uncomfortable". She felt uncomfortable when they all put on Ben Roethlisberger jerseys.
great thought
the pass rush and secondary go hand in hand. so adding one up for years to come will help the other. we need to draft a DE or OLB in the 1st or 2nd round, so adding a CB to add another half second of coverage can help develop them both.
Doctore i see your points, but at that early pick, wouldn't an OT be a safer and potential less
of a risk option?
Don't cut your locks Tom Terrific!
Life is about who makes it, not who makes it the fastest! Drive slow homie.
by PatNation85 on Feb 20, 2011 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
yeah they have 4 picks in the 1st 2 rounds the best bets
would be OT or OG, DE/OLB, and some other defense CB or offense RB/WR, and a D Lineman.
Jimmy Smith scouting report
Draft Scout Snapshot: DS Rating on 9-1-10: #4 CB, #30/750 Overall, 2
2010: One of the top defensive backs in the country, he garnered first-team All-Big 12 honors from the league coaches (honorable mention from the Associated Press); he was only thrown at about 20 times in man coverage (allowed just one touchdown, by Texas Tech), and he did have five passes broken up, but he had no interceptions which likely hurt him when it came to All-America honors. His teammates selected him as the recipient of the Dave Jones Award as CU’s most outstanding defensive player. He started all 12 games at right cornerback..For the second straight season, he had the exact same tackle count of 70 (third highest on the team, with 52 solo) with five PBU’s, four tackles for zero, a forced fumble, one recovery, and a team-best five touchdown saves…2009: Earned secondteam All-Big 12 honors in 2009 by the Associated Press and was an honorable mention selection by the Big 12 Coaches…started all 12 games for CU in 2009 and has played in 35 games in his career, starting 15…finished the 2009 season with 70 tackles (52 solo) and was second on the team with 10 pass break-ups…also had seven third down stops, one forced fumble and fumble recovery and had three tackles for loss and three other tackles for no gain…2008: Played in 10 games, starting the last three at right cornerback, after missing the opening pair of the season with an injury. He was in for 407 snaps on defense, racking up 39 tackles (34 solo, one for a loss), with five third down stops, five passes broken up, a forced fumble and a fumble recovery…2007: Saw action in all 13 games (no starts), playing in all on special teams; he appeared in six on defense at cornerback (99 snaps from scrimmage). He had four tackles (thee solo), a third down stop and a pass broken up on the season…2006: Redshirted.
Jets fans- Supporting drunk driving since Braylon Edwards arrest.
The NFL is going to investigate the behavior of New York Jets players who reportedly made a female reporter feel "uncomfortable". She felt uncomfortable when they all put on Ben Roethlisberger jerseys.
this is not my profile
should have been in a block quote
Jets fans- Supporting drunk driving since Braylon Edwards arrest.
The NFL is going to investigate the behavior of New York Jets players who reportedly made a female reporter feel "uncomfortable". She felt uncomfortable when they all put on Ben Roethlisberger jerseys.
Reasoning for Jimmy Smith
Spread Offenses are going to be more dominant- Copycat league. Green Bay worked the 4 and 5 wr sets, you need at least 3 good corners to be successful, and we don’t have 3 great coverers right now.
Talent- You want talent for this pick. No OLB was worth it. As we said before, because we sorta had equal value with the 3 DE’s, we left it to the fates which one we got. Jimmy Smith is a definite 1st round talent, and he has already risen from consensus second rounder to consensus first rounder. He tackles well (a requirement in the BB defense, the main reason I don’t want Harris) and needs to learn how to shed blocks a bit better. Overall, he becomes the replacement for Bodden in 1-2 years, allows Bodden to move to slot corner with age (a la Charles Woodson.)
Played 4 years- This allows him to jump right in, he has special teams experience, and can be a 4 down player (another BB requirement.)
Size- This might be my biggest reason. The guy is like an Antonio Cromartie who isn’t afraid to and can tackle. He’s 6’2 200 lbs. This allows him to cover all of the bigger receivers in the league. If he has a good 3 cone/5 cone drill at the combine, he is going to rocket up, because the main knock on bigger corners is that they can’t cover the Wes Welker’s of the league. But Jimmy Smith has shown in man coverage that not much beats him. He can go against just about any type of WR and will win his matchup.
Jets fans- Supporting drunk driving since Braylon Edwards arrest.
The NFL is going to investigate the behavior of New York Jets players who reportedly made a female reporter feel "uncomfortable". She felt uncomfortable when they all put on Ben Roethlisberger jerseys.
My one knock on that would be a RB that high. As long as we have a strong O-Line, we don't
necessarily need a high RB pick. I would much prefer getting skill position players later on down the draft like in the 3rd round and beyond. For instance a WR like Greg Little in the late 3rd or mid 4th. A RB like Vereen/Thomas/Carter in the 3rd. And heck, add another OLB like Romeus in the late 3rd as well, to shore up whatever OLB choice we get either earlier in the draft or through FA.
Don't cut your locks Tom Terrific!
Life is about who makes it, not who makes it the fastest! Drive slow homie.
we got vereen in the third
Jets fans- Supporting drunk driving since Braylon Edwards arrest.
The NFL is going to investigate the behavior of New York Jets players who reportedly made a female reporter feel "uncomfortable". She felt uncomfortable when they all put on Ben Roethlisberger jerseys.
I like smith's description...
sounds a lot like McCourty’s from a year ago.
by DrJgopatsgators on Feb 20, 2011 1:54 PM EST reply actions
shoulda picked Heyward at 28 and Smith at 33
by pats4life on Feb 20, 2011 2:00 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
that is what I said
Jets fans- Supporting drunk driving since Braylon Edwards arrest.
The NFL is going to investigate the behavior of New York Jets players who reportedly made a female reporter feel "uncomfortable". She felt uncomfortable when they all put on Ben Roethlisberger jerseys.
Hill and I had equal pull.
We wanted different DE’s, decided we would take whoever dropped to 33 out of Taylor and Heyward (plus Wilkerson) and then decided on best available non-DE. Jimmy Smith ended up winning out.
Jets fans- Supporting drunk driving since Braylon Edwards arrest.
The NFL is going to investigate the behavior of New York Jets players who reportedly made a female reporter feel "uncomfortable". She felt uncomfortable when they all put on Ben Roethlisberger jerseys.
OBrienSchofieldismyHero= CLGJ
so you drafted a running back at 33?
didn’t go as well as hoped I guess lol
we took Taylor at 33
Shane Vereen with the second 3rd round.
Jets fans- Supporting drunk driving since Braylon Edwards arrest.
The NFL is going to investigate the behavior of New York Jets players who reportedly made a female reporter feel "uncomfortable". She felt uncomfortable when they all put on Ben Roethlisberger jerseys.
OT, CB, DE, OG, OLB, RB
were the picks I/Hill made.
Jets fans- Supporting drunk driving since Braylon Edwards arrest.
The NFL is going to investigate the behavior of New York Jets players who reportedly made a female reporter feel "uncomfortable". She felt uncomfortable when they all put on Ben Roethlisberger jerseys.
way too long to wait for an OLB guys lol
should’ve gone with OLB at 28, Jimmy Smith at 33, and then whatever you wanted. Were you allowed to trade picks at all???
Jimmy prob wouldn't have made it to 33.
No trades. It gets really complicated, we only do a couple of those a year. Also, if you look at the bust rate for first round OLB it is pretty high. 2nd and 3rd round OLB’s have just as high a success rate as 1st rounders, so why risk it? Sam Acho is a lot like Cunningham, except a bit better at pass rush, slighlty worse against the run. So he is a good fit.
Jets fans- Supporting drunk driving since Braylon Edwards arrest.
The NFL is going to investigate the behavior of New York Jets players who reportedly made a female reporter feel "uncomfortable". She felt uncomfortable when they all put on Ben Roethlisberger jerseys.
I don't really like Cunningham lol
I’ll give him a chance though
He is our best young OLB. And he will surely get better.
Why aren’t you fond of him? Are you a…….Hurricane?
Don't cut your locks Tom Terrific!
Life is about who makes it, not who makes it the fastest! Drive slow homie.
IT'S A FLORIDA STATE FAN!
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Feb 20, 2011 8:21 PM EST up reply actions
Which OLB would be worth the 28th, or even the 33rd pick?
If there was a player on the board, we would have taken him. However, Kerrigan was gone at #26 and there isn’t another top tier OLB in the draft.
by Richard Hill on Feb 20, 2011 7:44 PM EST up reply actions
probably none, you should be looking DE
if nothing else. this is the why they have to spend. Move up for elite talent! The next best case is Sheared in the third, who will be much better than Ocho. Is that how the staff wants to go into next year? The advantage the Steerlers have is toughness. We have some tough guys but we need to move away (slowly) from the Brady team, and develop a tougher, more hard nosed consistent team on defense especially, but including a running game that involves a full back and the line more. We are set up for it with the tight ends,
by U. S. Grant on Feb 20, 2011 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not nearly as concerned about the Steelers
(a team that Brady owns quite handedly) as compared to teams such as Indy, Chargers (though we usually beat them always) and the Ravens. We can do better with the run game, but all in all, i think we will assuredly be well equipped to kick ass next season.
And oh yeah…..
The next best case is Sheared in the third, who will be much better than Ocho.
What makes you say this? Just curious as i haven’t done much studying on Sheard as yet.
Don't cut your locks Tom Terrific!
Life is about who makes it, not who makes it the fastest! Drive slow homie.
by PatNation85 on Feb 20, 2011 10:58 PM EST up reply actions
i love the jimmy smith pick
because he was by far the best player available when taken.
I just really cannot stand the Sherrod pick. It just seems like a reach for an offensive tackle whose stock has already risen further then it should due to a weak offensive line class in this years draft.
He is a good choice
simply because he is the safest by far. Sherrod has the lowest chance of busting, but also the lowest ceiling. He will be a good player in the NFL, prob a couple pro bowls, but never an All-Pro player. While I will say the tackle class next year is supremely better at the top, most classes aren’t as good in this one in that is has some depth. The problem is by 28 all of the good OT’s would have been gone, so we went OT early before we had to not address the need.
Jets fans- Supporting drunk driving since Braylon Edwards arrest.
The NFL is going to investigate the behavior of New York Jets players who reportedly made a female reporter feel "uncomfortable". She felt uncomfortable when they all put on Ben Roethlisberger jerseys.
OBrienSchofieldismyHero= CLGJ
Fair enough
sound logic, and i really don’t love the others available at 17.
I hope the top of the draft goes differently
by beantownboy171 on Feb 20, 2011 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
I hope the top of the draft goes differently
I’d love to go with a pass rusher. But we really need Watt, Jordan, or Aldon Smith to be available at 17 for me to feel comfortable doing that.
by beantownboy171 on Feb 20, 2011 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
None were
so we went OT, because if Light goes, then we are screwed.
Jets fans- Supporting drunk driving since Braylon Edwards arrest.
The NFL is going to investigate the behavior of New York Jets players who reportedly made a female reporter feel "uncomfortable". She felt uncomfortable when they all put on Ben Roethlisberger jerseys.
We only need a RT, there are Tackles in this draft beyond the first and second round
Clint Boling will be around in the third and he’s played every position on the line except C. James Carpenter from Alabama will be around in the 3rd possibly the 4th. I’ve seen him projected to be a good RT in the NFL. Volmer is the man that we drafted to play LT we don’t need two.
agree with everything beantownboy just said,,
i dont like any o-lineman at 17. plenty of value at o-line in 2nd-3rd rounds. i would LOVE to get cameron jordan at 17 but dont think he’ll last.. so at 17 i would prefer to trade up to 10-14 range to grab an elite player that dropped (marcel darius, robert quinn, possibly jordan) or trade down to late 1st early-mid 2nd. i like jimmy smith at 28. also reminds me of mccourty and yes we do need an upgrade at cb #3. i think smith is a good fit, versatile, and much prefer him over any corner available. love muhammed wilkerson and phil taylor in the 28-33 range. also wouldnt mind leshoure at 33, i think hes the best rb in the draft (yes better than ingram). also gotta say i dont think theres a chance in hell the pats draft kerrigan. like even if hes sitting there at 33.. just a terrible fit. not big enough for DE, not athletic enough to play OLB. cant shed blocks, cant drop into coverage. the list goes on. good player, just not for the pats. really like danny watkins, ben ijalana, and clint boling. would love to see 1 of them picked up in the 2nd round
agree with movado
move up for marcel darius, robert quinn, possibly jordan
esp dareus, quinn.
rich hill had an almost equally compelling idea if you could actually get #28, #29, #33, and #35 by trading out of 17
i’d rather trade up and get the best patriot de we want, ditto o line and olb. and trade the lower round picks. how many rookies are gonna make our team. we already are very young.
with cba we could still pick up cb, tall wr who can get off line, free safety, rb if need.
i like it!
if we dont trade up to get a blue-chipper, i def wouldnt mind 28,29,33,35. that could be muhammad wilkerson, jimmy smith, danny watkins, mikel leshoure. somewhere along those lines.. plug in your personal preferences or positions, but theres def value in that range. possibly trade 35 back into the 1st round next year. not too shabby
How would they go about getting 29 and 35 by trading down though?
29 is Bears but which team is 35?
Is it trade down to 29 and trade up to 35?
Yeah.
Those numbers are pretty “out of thin air” but I would say trade down from #17 to #29 and use whatever picks were earned to package with #60 to move up in the second round.
by Richard Hill on Feb 21, 2011 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
I love the pick
A lot of stronger teams in the AFC tend to use three WR sets, thus, three strong CBs needed. Grand.
Just trying to keep up.
Your picks
I like the Castanzo pick at 17 because NYG,Phil are certainly looking first at OL; SD probably is Pitt is as well at 31. I like Leshoure because I like him and believe it will help ball control. I like Phil Taylor because the Jets might take him and Wilfolk seems to play well at DE at times. Trading down several spots from 33 is very likely. Rumors of Cullen Jenkins and Matt Roth do make sense since there is so much youth on defense.
I'm a Wisniewski guy at 28
Love Jimmy Smith, in fact I was mentioning before many of you. However there are other DB’s with similar skills sets that will be there at 33. Aaron Williams, Brandon Burton, Brandon Harris all might be there in round 2. Wisniewski solves the immediate problem at guard and gives a long term solution at C after next year. He comes out of a great system, is rated #1 at his position by most experts, is a 3 time Academic All American, and holds a 4.0 GPA at Penn State. Interviews with coaches and teammates routinely call him the toughest most football savvy player they’ve ever competed with. I’m a DE guy at 17 and Wisniewski at 28.
None of those other three corners tackle as well as Jimmy Smith
Jets fans- Supporting drunk driving since Braylon Edwards arrest.
The NFL is going to investigate the behavior of New York Jets players who reportedly made a female reporter feel "uncomfortable". She felt uncomfortable when they all put on Ben Roethlisberger jerseys.
CBS Sports Analysis of his tackling
“Physical tackler with NFL size and excellent length to wrap, but must get more consistent in the open field. Able to knock away passes and force fumbles while he wraps up receivers. Must drop his hips and break down more quickly attacking ballcarriers on the run, as they can elude him with a quick move or slip off when he tries to tackle shoulder pads.”
Don’t get me wrong I like Jimmy Smith. Tackling can be improved for all of CB’s at the next level. A month ago Smith was 5-6 deep on everyone’s CB list. If he slips and we take one of the others I mentioned I wouldn’t be crushed. But the big issue is Neal/Koppen/Mankins that we need to start addressing. Casey Wiegmann will most likely retire this year and there’s a good chance the Cheifs and the Steelers will be in the market for a G/C. I’d love to take Wisniewski a little later but don’t think he’ll be there. Look at his intangibles and he screams Pat’s. Oh and he grew up outside of Pittsburgh and went to Penn State. As much as the Steelers have been making noise about Pouncey I think they might want this kid as well.
I'd take him at 33.
28, maybe, if we had to. Otherwise, focus on defense and the outside of the O-line in the 1st.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
by insertscreenname on Feb 21, 2011 1:02 AM EST up reply actions
Carimi would be an RT,
and he’s surely going in the 1st. Either tackle is more valuable than a guard, so pull the trigger on the best available OT/3-4 DE/pass-rusher at 28. We need a Tackle to take over from Vollmer at RT or Light at LT (whichever gives the better play at the other spot), so if the guy is there, take him.
Take the best available defensive player at 17 – pass-rusher, DE, (CB?).
Pick the best option out of a Tackle/DE/CB/pass-rusher at 28.
We do need a center for the future, and Wis should still be there at 33.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
by insertscreenname on Feb 21, 2011 1:15 AM EST up reply actions
Basically, tackles go before guards and centers, regardless of side
So you can get a good interior guy later than you can get a good exterior guy.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
by insertscreenname on Feb 21, 2011 1:17 AM EST up reply actions
We're talking a Guard that can play Center and is rated #1 as a Center
Do you think who ever we pick for a RT will be more valuable than Mankins? Nick Mangold was an excellent pick for the Jets in the First Round. RT’s can be had later in the draft. I bet if I surveyed more starting RT’s in the League right now they didn’t go in the First Round.
but more centers would have gone later as well.
If he’s the top center, and he’s there at 28, and we can’t justify taking one of the DEs or remaining tackles, pick him. But Pittsburgh, Chicago, NYJ don’t need a center, and GB probably won’t pick one even if they do (Leshoure would be my guess). No Heyward at 28, no top tackle at 28, then pick Wis.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
by insertscreenname on Feb 21, 2011 1:25 AM EST up reply actions
Pittsburgh loves this kid he's from there
If Pouncey is gone, I’d bet on him being gone at 31.
Maybe.
The Steelers will almost certainly take one of the CBs sitting there. Hopefully Harris, because he sucks a bit more than Smith.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
by insertscreenname on Feb 21, 2011 1:35 AM EST up reply actions
he was gone at 19 to the Giants
Jets fans- Supporting drunk driving since Braylon Edwards arrest.
The NFL is going to investigate the behavior of New York Jets players who reportedly made a female reporter feel "uncomfortable". She felt uncomfortable when they all put on Ben Roethlisberger jerseys.
Pouncey, not Wis.
Wis to the Steelers doesn’t make much sense, given their hole at CB
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
by insertscreenname on Feb 21, 2011 1:45 AM EST up reply actions
they took Brandon Harris in the draft
good luck with the next shamuel without the picks.
Jets fans- Supporting drunk driving since Braylon Edwards arrest.
The NFL is going to investigate the behavior of New York Jets players who reportedly made a female reporter feel "uncomfortable". She felt uncomfortable when they all put on Ben Roethlisberger jerseys.
And they were all saying he's their 3rd ranked corner.
His style of play is very bad for the rest of the Steeler defense
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
by insertscreenname on Feb 21, 2011 1:49 AM EST up reply actions
Mankins was drafted as a tackle
he played tackle his entire college careeer
Jets fans- Supporting drunk driving since Braylon Edwards arrest.
The NFL is going to investigate the behavior of New York Jets players who reportedly made a female reporter feel "uncomfortable". She felt uncomfortable when they all put on Ben Roethlisberger jerseys.
he was drafted as a tackle
so even when you can’t play T, you can be a great G. So drafting tackles can actually fit your plan as well.
Jets fans- Supporting drunk driving since Braylon Edwards arrest.
The NFL is going to investigate the behavior of New York Jets players who reportedly made a female reporter feel "uncomfortable". She felt uncomfortable when they all put on Ben Roethlisberger jerseys.
So are you saying that Boling and Carpenter both 3/4 rounders can't play RT?
That’s my point. LT is an elite position. We already have 2. I think we’ll keep Light at least one more year. Why take a third?
If they keep Light, it changes.
You draft the interior guy at 28, rather than the exterior. Next year’s tackle class is meant to be deeper anyway.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
by insertscreenname on Feb 21, 2011 1:36 AM EST up reply actions
If light is only gonna stay one year
then no. More then 1, maybe. Still have no depth.
Jets fans- Supporting drunk driving since Braylon Edwards arrest.
The NFL is going to investigate the behavior of New York Jets players who reportedly made a female reporter feel "uncomfortable". She felt uncomfortable when they all put on Ben Roethlisberger jerseys.
Because you don't want a rookie starting
with Tom Brady starting. I don’t want Dwight Freeney getting shots at Brady because we couldn’t be bothered to take a tackle and teach him up for a year with Scarnechia
Jets fans- Supporting drunk driving since Braylon Edwards arrest.
The NFL is going to investigate the behavior of New York Jets players who reportedly made a female reporter feel "uncomfortable". She felt uncomfortable when they all put on Ben Roethlisberger jerseys.
he was a college tackle,
but projected as a guard at NFL (in NE, anyway). Good guard play is easier to find than good Tackle play.
Extend Mankins, and the problem is diminished.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
by insertscreenname on Feb 21, 2011 1:31 AM EST up reply actions
Pouncey was taken 19th by the Giants
and Mofitt has a higher ceiling than Steven W while being a lower draft pick, while the Jimmy Smith is a head above the other two you mentioned.
Jets fans- Supporting drunk driving since Braylon Edwards arrest.
The NFL is going to investigate the behavior of New York Jets players who reportedly made a female reporter feel "uncomfortable". She felt uncomfortable when they all put on Ben Roethlisberger jerseys.
So as always you avoid the whole issue I took the time to explain
I like Jimmy Smith you don’t have to bend over backwards convincing me of his worth. Wisniewski has an NFL blood line, is a 3 time academic all american and has a 4.0 at Penn State. There are intangibles there that will impress in the interview process. I don’t agree that Mofitt is the better of the two, in fact I’d be more inclined to take Clint Boling over Mofitt as Boling was also an academic all american. In the selection process it’s going to come down to more than just can you run and push someone around. It’s also can you digest the playbook that we are going to throw at you and be productive from Day One. Wisniewski’s teammates say he new every play cold and everyone’s responsibility. I had Jimmy Smith 28 and Wisniewski 33 on my own board until I spent some time on Friday looking a little deeper at Wisniewski.
Wisniewski is good
but physically he has limits. He has the intangibles sure, but those only get you so far. Moffitt is
2010: AP first-team All-American, SI second-team All-American … consensus first-team All-Big Ten … Wayne Souza Coaches Appreciation Award (Offense) …Moffitt was named a first-team All-American by the Associated Press this season, starting all 13 games at left guard. The Guilford, Conn., native was also a first-team All-Big Ten selection in 2010 and, along with Carimi and Kendricks, helped pave the way for two 1,000-yard rushers (John Clay and James White). He played in 45 games over the course of his career, earning the start in 42 of those contests…
C is not as high a need as G especially if Mankins is traded. Steven is a better C. there is also a better center class coming out next year. Connoly could easily be our next C. This is why you go Jimmy Smith, because the difference between Jimmy Smith and Brandon Harris> the difference between Steven W and a guy like Moffitt.
Jets fans- Supporting drunk driving since Braylon Edwards arrest.
The NFL is going to investigate the behavior of New York Jets players who reportedly made a female reporter feel "uncomfortable". She felt uncomfortable when they all put on Ben Roethlisberger jerseys.
You know here's the real issue is that I was just stating my personal preference
“I’m a Wisniewski guy at 28” was what I said. I went on to say I loved Jimmy Smith. I didn’t trash your pick or call you names. I simply offered a well thought out piece about why I thought Wisniewski was that better pick IMO at 28. Get some thicker skin if you are going to offer these things. I was offering information that was pertinent about STEFEN (not Steven or Stephen) that I haven’t seen either of you share with the other people here.
Maybe you are interpretting things wrong, but I never said you were any of that
I just pointed out that I believe the difference between Jimmy Smith and Brandon Harris> the difference between Moffitt and Stefen W. I also pointed out why C wasn’t a priority at 28. That entire block-quote is proof of Moffitt’s talent level. Am I not allowed to defend my pick, or was there a rule where you were the only one allowed to make arguments?
Jets fans- Supporting drunk driving since Braylon Edwards arrest.
The NFL is going to investigate the behavior of New York Jets players who reportedly made a female reporter feel "uncomfortable". She felt uncomfortable when they all put on Ben Roethlisberger jerseys.
Maybe it's your response style
You tend to overlook the points people are making and focus on a single item. I write a paragraph about Wisniewski and mention that there are three other CB’s that most likely will be available at 33. CB’s that most saw going in the first round in early mocks. And your comment focuses only on the tackling abilities of those CB’s ignoring my whole comment about Wisniewski. It comes off as dismissive at best, arrogant at worst.
Isn't this exciting??
LMAO
Don't cut your locks Tom Terrific!
Life is about who makes it, not who makes it the fastest! Drive slow homie.
That was my first thought, too.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
by insertscreenname on Feb 21, 2011 3:40 AM EST up reply actions
Sorry it was a late night and I regret the comment
I just wanted a discussion because I think we can all benefit from each others input into some of the top players. I think my information on Wisniewski increases his value beyond what he runs for a 40, or whether he’s a 2nd or 1st Team All American (he was a 2nd Team BTW). Had I been in your shoes drafting I would have struggled between Wis and Smith, but I would have taken Wis and hoped Smith would make it to 33.
Wisniewski is an extremely smart player...
…but he gets pushed around by bigger defensive tackles. That’s what makes me worried about taking him- with the league turning into a 3-4 league, he’ll be asked to match up against many, many nose tackles. He’ll be another Dan Koppen. That’s fine if that’s what you want, but I don’t think he fits the scheme of the future.
by Richard Hill on Feb 21, 2011 1:36 AM EST up reply actions
First time I've heard that in all the reading I did this weekend. I'll have to take another look.
He’s bigger than Koppen 6’4" 305 (Nick Mangold size). I don’t think you tend to get rated number one if you get pushed around. These are the same guys that have Jake Kirkpatrick, winner of the Rimmington Award, rated much lower.
Watch some tape if you really want to get the in-depth analysis
Hill watches a lot of tape, and I’ve only even been able to watch a bit. Most of the scouting reports say the same stuff, and most is true. Unfortunately, very few off them give out the cons of the players. I trust Hill in this regard.
Jets fans- Supporting drunk driving since Braylon Edwards arrest.
The NFL is going to investigate the behavior of New York Jets players who reportedly made a female reporter feel "uncomfortable". She felt uncomfortable when they all put on Ben Roethlisberger jerseys.
Well, there are very few NTs that he faces.
I don’t trust awards so much as evaluations. I’m not saying he’s horrible against big guys either- Koppen’s not “horrible”. I just think they’re both “average” when it comes to facing 330+ lbs of defensive lineman. Both Koppen and Wisniewski are phenomenal against 4-3 defenses, which is great because that’s what most colleges use for defensive alignments. That’s why Wisniewski looks so great- he’s never been matched up against a big slab of fat. He’ll be a great player in the league, but I don’t expect him to be a Mangold. I expect him to be a Koppen.
by Richard Hill on Feb 21, 2011 2:16 AM EST up reply actions
I guess we'll see. Do I get to gloat if you're wrong????? haha
I think this kid is going to be a gamer and will come off the Board Day One. I think he’ll play his rookie year and have a nice long career.
Absolutely!
And I totally agree with you. He’s a first round prospect. He’ll be a great player. I just don’t think he’s an improvement over Koppen.
by Richard Hill on Feb 21, 2011 2:36 AM EST up reply actions
We seem to trash Koppen quite a bit
Here’s a good article naming Koppen the non QB/RB MVP of the League this year. Say what you want about him occassionally needing help blocking, but how many snaps does he mess up?
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/110104_tuesday_morning_quarterback&sportCat=nfl
So maybe as good as Dan Koppen isn’t all that bad.
I've read that...
…and I do think Koppen’s a fine center. He’s not elite, but he’s certainly a top 10 center in the league. I think Wisniewski can be a top 10 center as well. However, if the Patriots were to use a first round pick on a player, I’d hope he’d play at the top tier level in the league. If they drafted a center, I’d hope he’d play near Mangold’s level. I think the Patriots could draft a center in the 3rd or 4th round and make him a top 10 center. They won’t be as good as Wisniewski, but I don’t think the drop off would be too dramatic. He’s not a “once in a lifetime” prospect. He’s a smart, excellent prospect. I’d love to take Wisniewski at #33 or, even better, around #40 in a trade of draft picks. However, I don’t think you shoot for “above average” with a first round pick. You want a player who could be one of top couple in the league.
by Richard Hill on Feb 21, 2011 2:48 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think the label of once in a lifetime applies to many first rounders
I think it comes down to do you fill my biggest need and are you the highest rated guy at that position. Wisniewski helps to stabilize the Neal/Koppen/Mankins issue that will come to a head by 2012 at the latest. If Neal retires than I see him starting at RG fairly quickly based on his abilities and football IQ. Next year if Koppen starts to slide and the expense is too much he moves to C for the next 10 years. If I get a 10 year starter from a first round pick that’s a win in my book.
Oh, I know...
…but it usually applies to certain positions. You only take extremely elite center prospects, safety prospects, guard prospects and defensive tackle prospects in the first round because the “above average” players will be there in the second. If you try for them early, then you aren’t getting good value.
You have to balance biggest need and highest rated player with “is he worth this valuable pick?” and “are you the highest rated player still on our draft board?” Odds are, Wisniewski won’t be the highest rated player on their draft board in the first round.
by Richard Hill on Feb 21, 2011 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
Check this out if you haven't seen it.
It swayed my thoughts about waiting to take him. He just seems like a high character, X’s and O’s, Bill Belichick kind of guy.
I don't disagree at all. He's a smart, smart player.
Watch this video. Look at the center play. You can see that he uses his technical knowledge and ability to maneuver his man. However, you never need him maul his guy and push him backwards. He uses momentum to get players out of the play. For instance, if a player tries to swim move past him, he uses that momentum to keep that guy out of the play. It’s extremely impressive.
However, watch when a guy squares up with him. When a player (read: nose tackle) lines up with him and bull rushes, Wisniewski can’t push him back. He either holds the point of attack or falls backwards, but he doesn’t open up holes when he’s pushed backwards. Now think of the nose tackle’s role on defense: It’s to engage with the middle of the line and let other players make plays. I believe that nose tackles would be able to push Wisniewski back a step, effectively blowing up interior run plays and collapsing the pocket on passing downs.
by Richard Hill on Feb 21, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
Did you see that thing from Mangini?
He drafted Mangold specifically to deal with Wilfork; all the other teams in the division (and good ones in the conference) run with a good NT, so the Pats should invest in a Mangold-like C to counter them at some point.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit
by Comedic.Sans on Feb 21, 2011 3:38 AM EST up reply actions
Oh and he's a legacy guy like Clay Mathews
Stefen Wisniewski’s father and uncle both played in the NFL.
Plz go to this site before juding the picks in order to see the situational side of the draft
Example- No OLB’s worth taking at 28.
Jets fans- Supporting drunk driving since Braylon Edwards arrest.
The NFL is going to investigate the behavior of New York Jets players who reportedly made a female reporter feel "uncomfortable". She felt uncomfortable when they all put on Ben Roethlisberger jerseys.
For what its worth so you understand that I do like Jimmy here's my board from last week
17 – Cameron Jordan DE Cal
28 – Jimmy Smith CB Col
33 – Steph Wisniewski C/G Penn
60 – Sam Acho OLB/DE Texas
74 – Greg Romeus OLB/DE Pitt
92 – Greg Little WR UNC
124 – Andrew Jackson G Fresno State
156 – David Carter DE/DT UCLA
182 – Armon Binns WR Cinn
Now I've tweeked it a bit
28 Stefen Wisniewski
33 Best available CB
182 Tejay Johnson FS/SS (First Team AP All American) didn’t get a combine invite, not sure why he’s projected in the 7th round based on the success of that program and being a 4 year starter. I guess I’ll know if Brandon Spikes beats him in the 40 at his pro day.
No OT nor pure OG huh? hmmmmmm
Don't cut your locks Tom Terrific!
Life is about who makes it, not who makes it the fastest! Drive slow homie.
Andrew Jackson is a pure OG
He’s a Pat Hill product like Mankins. He helped block Ryan Mathews to a high first round pick last year. He’s an academic all american and one of his fellow OL starters said this about him “He’s the most mentally tough guy I’ve known in my life.” He was on the watch list for the Outland but sat out most of last year with a high ankle sprain. His stock has dropped to 4-6th round because of it. He plays strong and mean. Pat Hill has compared him to Mankins. I think he’s a potential steal late at 124 or possibly 156.
by waldoon on Feb 21, 2011 3:38 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
oh didn't see the category next to him above. my bad
Don't cut your locks Tom Terrific!
Life is about who makes it, not who makes it the fastest! Drive slow homie.
JJ Watt's growing on me.
If they go DE at 17, it had better be Watt or Jordan.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
by insertscreenname on Feb 21, 2011 6:44 AM EST reply actions
I like it.
Given the state of the board at the time of this 28th pick, I’d say Smith is a no brainer.
He gives you the potential to have 3 premier cover-and-tackle DBs in the backfield with McCourty and Bodden. And all three are good at run support. That actually makes your front 7 much more effective because they a) get more time to get to the QB on passing plays and can be more aggressive on running plays because they’ll know they have good tacklers behind them preventing big plays.
My preference going into the draft is to get an OL and DL with these first two picks, but the draft doesn’t just lay itself out to suit your preferences. Given the way it shaped up for Cameron and Richard, picking Jimmy Smith is by far, imho, the best value pick because even if Bodden IS back, he still adds tremendous marginal value to the defense and special teams. Plus he’s both big AND fast. He should be able to play almost anywhere in the backfield as well as up close. He could be a hell of a corner blitzer.
I doubt the real draft will shape up this way, of course.
by mmmmm on Feb 21, 2011 6:29 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Excellent commentary. Rec'd
He gives you the potential to have 3 premier cover-and-tackle DBs in the backfield with McCourty and Bodden. And all three are good at run support. That actually makes your front 7 much more effective because they a) get more time to get to the QB on passing plays and can be more aggressive on running plays because they’ll know they have good tacklers behind them preventing big plays.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Official Fire-Puncher for Pats Pulpit an SB Nation Blog
by SlotMachinePlayer on Feb 21, 2011 6:56 PM EST up reply actions
If you're playing with 3 corners
and a front 7, you only have 1 safety.
and that safety is Meriweather..............................
Non Sibi Sed Patriae ;I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Cameron Heyward-Future 3-4 RDE for the New England Patriots
Front 7 would become a 3-3 + Chung
Jets fans- Supporting drunk driving since Braylon Edwards arrest.
The NFL is going to investigate the behavior of New York Jets players who reportedly made a female reporter feel "uncomfortable". She felt uncomfortable when they all put on Ben Roethlisberger jerseys.
Most likely Rookie- Wilfork- Warren, Cunningham-Mayo- Rookie/Spy (fletcher, nink)
then chung, meriweather, jimmy, mccourty and bodden. Against all the 3 wr, 1 te 1 rb sets, This could be a very strong defence.
Jets fans- Supporting drunk driving since Braylon Edwards arrest.
The NFL is going to investigate the behavior of New York Jets players who reportedly made a female reporter feel "uncomfortable". She felt uncomfortable when they all put on Ben Roethlisberger jerseys.
This is very likely.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Official Fire-Puncher for Pats Pulpit an SB Nation Blog
by SlotMachinePlayer on Feb 22, 2011 4:21 PM EST up reply actions

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