Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Trent Richardson Interviews Fellow Brown Brandon Weeden

Thursday Thoughts - Five thoughts on pick number 17.

With the lack of anything going on in the football scene, I decided to focus a little bit on our first draft pick and what kind of players we might pick with it.  While I always prefer BPA when drafting, I'm listing these by greatest need.

1) Offensive Tackle  - Matt Light is a free agent and a players representative who has called out Robert Kraft for not attending CBA meetings.  He's also turned into somewhat of a turnstile in big games.  While I believe the Pats will resign him, the ugliness that was Logan Mankins' situation last year makes that anything but a sure thing.  

Nick Kaczur was injured most of last year, having lost the right tackle position to young stud Sebastian "Sea Bass" Vollmer.  He's still under contract, but he had moved to left guard after Mankins decided to sit out.  In addition, Kaczur's back injury was the same one that got him addicted to pain killers a few years ago.  Going forward, Kaczur is likely to either play guard or sub in at tackle if needed.  His days as a starter on the outside are past, I believe. 

We also have on the roster UFA Mark LeVoir who hasn't cracked the starting lineup in five years.  Quinn Ojinnaka, from the Falcons, was added for depth and has never played a regular season game in six years as a pro.

That leaves us with a need, as I see it, at OT.  Since Vollmer is a swing tackle (and great fun at parties, I'm told), we're not targeting either a left tackle or a right tackle, just another quality tackle to keep Brady upright.

2) Defensive End - The 17th pick comes from Oakland in a trade for Richard Seymour.  It seems only fitting to finally replace him with this pick.  With all of the injuries on the defensive line last year, we have many bodies on the roster.  Vince Wilfork, Ty Warren (IR), Ron Brace (IR), Gerrard Warren, Brandon Deaderick, Mike Wright (IR), Darryl Richard (IR), Kyle Love, Myron Pryor, Kade Weston, Landon Cohen, Marlon Favorite, and Marcus Stroud (just signed) are potentially available this year. 

Out of that list though, only Big Vince demands double teams.  When both Wilfork and Seymour were on the line, Ty Warren was left single covered more often than not.  We have lots bodies and some guys that MAY make the jump, but we've yet to replace Seymour on the right side of the line.  Could Seymour's trade pick go toward finding his replacement?

Star-divide

3) Outside Linebacker - On the roster is Jermaine Cunningham, that is developing, but can't really drop into coverage.  Rob Ninkovich has surprised at times and looked Vrabelesque sporting number 50, but is more often than not a step short in pass rushing and run coverage.  Tully Banta-Cain is a one trick pony when it comes to rushing the passer.  Eric Moore picked up a couple sacks on the year.  Marques Murrell had one tackle in one game this year.  What we have at OLB is a bunch of role-players, but nobody who is the total package.

This pick has several caveats.  In order to justify a pick this high, this guy is going to have to be able to rush the passer, set the edge for the run, and be able to drop into coverage.  If the guy can't do all of that, we'd be better using the pick elsewhere.  We have role players already, and single dimensional guys will be available in later rounds.

4) Corner back - With the emergence of McCourty and the return of Bodden, you'd think that we'd be set at corner back.  Yes and no.  FIrst of all, Bodden is coming off of injury and may take awhile to come back.  Second, an injury to either Bodden or McCourty pushes Darius Butler, Kyle Arrington, or Jonathan Wilhite up against a top tier receiver.  Third, we play Indianapolis every stinking year and they, as well as many other teams, enjoy the spread.  Fourth, for many teams, there's not a lot of drop off between their second and third receivers.

Tight coverage in the secondary goes hand in glove with pressure from the front seven.  To give guys time to get to the QB, they other team's receivers need to be covered.  To keep the receivers from breaking free and running the "scramble drill", the guys up front need to get to the QB.  I look at it by seconds.  If the pass is completed in under 3 seconds the secondary is generally to blame.  If the pass is completed in over 6 seconds (about when the "scramble drill" kicks in), the front seven is to blame.  In between, they share blame.

5) Wide receiver - With this pick, I'm looking at a guy that can create seperation either through size and strength (like Megatron), or through speed.  I'm not necessarily looking for a field stretcher, but if the play calls for him to stretch the field, he should be able to do that.  I'm looking for someone that can run all the routes, but more importantly the middle and deep routes where we are inconsistent.  Brandon Tate may grow into the role, but he has a long way to go.  Taylor Price may be the guy, but we've yet to see it.

That's my wish list, and I've avoided discussing specific players.  Feel free to share your wishes in the comments.

Poll
What position should we target with the 17th pick?
Defensive Line
226 votes
Outside Line Backer
165 votes
Inside Line Backer
3 votes
Safety
2 votes
Corner Back
6 votes
Offensive Line
115 votes
Tight End
1 votes
Wide Receiver
13 votes
Running Back
7 votes
Quarter Back
22 votes

560 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 60 comments  |  1 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

LOL
(and great fun at parties, I’m told),

No wonder you kids look at you weirdly….

LOL :P

Non Sibi Sed Patriae ;I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Cameron Heyward-Future 3-4 RDE for the New England Patriots

by NinjaZX6R on Mar 24, 2011 2:07 PM EDT reply actions  

What teeagers DON'T think their parents are from another planet?

/crickets chirping

I rest my case.

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Official Fire-Puncher for Pats Pulpit an SB Nation Blog

by SlotMachinePlayer on Mar 24, 2011 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

"we're watching the odd-father."

lololololololololol

I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP

formerly patriotguy2 ;)

by Jack'sAxe on Mar 24, 2011 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Other

We should either trade the pick or target BPA from among OT, DE, OLB, and Pouncey. And if we’re going to draft Pouncey, I’d much rather see us go for him at #28 if he’s still available then.

by RSNexile on Mar 24, 2011 2:52 PM EDT reply actions  

Personally, I think we're dropping back from 17th AND shopping the 28th pick.

I also think someone will offer something ridiculous for the 33rd.

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Official Fire-Puncher for Pats Pulpit an SB Nation Blog

by SlotMachinePlayer on Mar 24, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

We should use all our picks if we can.

The Patriots need to add more impact players. Yes the team won 14 games last season. But that was last season. With the growth of the last class and the additional choices for this season, the Patriots need players who can help us now and long term.

by Patriots12 on Mar 24, 2011 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wait 'til you see next week's article.

I don’t think you’ll be happy.

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Official Fire-Puncher for Pats Pulpit an SB Nation Blog

by SlotMachinePlayer on Mar 24, 2011 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am now waiting in hungry anticipation

because I NEED some juicy football news or ideas

by pats4life on Mar 24, 2011 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not that big of a deal.

This is just my opinion. So it doesn’t matter about the next article.

by Patriots12 on Mar 24, 2011 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

No Pouncey under any circumstances.

Let him “solidify” the Steelers’ O-line.

"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West

by insertscreenname on Mar 24, 2011 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Were I in the driver's seat..

The most troubling information you gave was about the tackle position. The defensive line has many bodies but few standouts. The Patriots have holes. Everyone talks about the pass rush, the lack of outside speed, the defensive line, and the offensive line. My vote is for the offensive line. Way more holes there than anywhere else. Mike Pouncey would be my draft choice.

by Patriots12 on Mar 24, 2011 3:27 PM EDT reply actions  

Agreed about the need...

…disagree with Pouncey. I feel like his value has skyrocketed because of his brother, and not because of his skill level. Belichick knows that and I think he’ll manipulate his Florida connection to have some team overpay for Pouncey either before he picks (causing another prospect to drop) or to trade with the #17 and to pick up later picks.

I’d go with an OT. Castonzo if he wasn’t repped by Condon or Carimi.

by Richard Hill on Mar 24, 2011 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Not hearing good things about Costonzo.

I’ve been hearing that Costonzo is not that strong for a tackle. And he has issues with athletic speed guys. Not ideal for protecting Tom Brady. But he is your choice. I feel like a solid pick is Mike Pouncey. He can play the right guard spot or center. He is clean. I just feel there is a greater need inside than outside. We do need a right tackle. But right tackles are easier to find.

by Patriots12 on Mar 24, 2011 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I believe that was on NFP?

I still think that Pouncey’s value is inflated. He should really only be around our 28 pick, but teams have fallen in love with interior linemen, even though they’re easily replaceable. The difference between a top tackle and an average tackle is a large larger than the difference between a top guard and an average guard. In my opinion, the difference between Carimi, Castonzo or Smith and a Marcus Gilbert is a lot more than the difference between a Pouncey and a Rodney Hudson or John Moffitt or Clint Boling or Steve Schilling.

by Richard Hill on Mar 24, 2011 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

And his brother wasn't even that good.

He was an average Center, which is okay for a rookie, I guess. Certainly not Pro-Bowl worthy, let alone All-Pro.

"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West

by insertscreenname on Mar 24, 2011 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

@RichardHill

I understand. I feel like Rt is an easy position to replace. I feel like we need the right player. I mentioned Pouncey because he seems like a clean player and a solid pick. Couple that with the fact that once Steven Neal has gotten injured that position has become a liability in crucial games. We just see it differently. My approach to the first of the Patriots picks would be to solidify either the offense or the defense. I would want a guy as clean as can be. Smart, tough, physical, and team oriented like most players who are with the Patriots. There is a part of me that wants an attitude guy too. Someone who will play with an edge. For me the offensive line is the greatest need.

by Patriots12 on Mar 24, 2011 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

At pick 17, the enough value just may not be there

unless someone unexpected drops down. DE and CB are only positions that have any half decent potential but only if the right player drops down.
.

by prioris on Mar 24, 2011 4:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Who would you want to trade up for?

Considering the financial cost and the draft choices that you would have to part with. Who would you want?

by Patriots12 on Mar 24, 2011 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

there is not a lot worth for patriots style 3-4 defense
there are quite a few QBs, WRs, CBs who will get taken
lots of good BPA available but less patriot need
the drafts is really good for 4-3 teams …. it is like a buffet
i haven’t looked at dareus yet

by prioris on Mar 24, 2011 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't consider cost.

But I would trade up for a potential difference maker. If Quinn were at ten I would jump. Aldon Smith, Houston, don’t fool yourself into thinking you can’t use these guys. You would be mistaken.

by U. S. Grant on Mar 24, 2011 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

you better consider cost

unless you want to be paying Jamarcus Russell for 5 years

by pats4life on Mar 24, 2011 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

@U.S.Grant-I believe they can be of use.

There are only 2 players in this draft I would trade up for. Marcell Dareus and Patrict Peterson. I believe players like Robert Quinn and Aldon Smith will fall into the mid to lower round of the first if not the second. Trading up is your strategy and I respect it. You see value in trading up. I’m not putting down your ideal. I just think that since neither Quinn nor Smith are top ten players you have to let the board play itself out. Part of the reason that Bill has been successful in drafting his players is because he plays everything close to the vest. No one knows who the Patriots will draft on draft day. While others make it known what they want. Maybe your are right in trading up. I like Quinn. I think he would be a top 5 pick had he played at a high level last season.

by Patriots12 on Mar 25, 2011 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

i agree, dareus and peterson are really the only players worth trading up for that i see. quinn is always a tempting player but i really don’t know how well he would fit with patriots. if patriots were primarily a 4-3 team, there would be a long list of players i’d grab

by prioris on Mar 25, 2011 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I dont expect the pats to pick an OL until the 2nd or 3rd.

Not only do we have Eric Moore, who performed above some of our expectations I would think, but DE and OL also are needs. This makes OLB much less important imo.

I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP

formerly patriotguy2 ;)

by Jack'sAxe on Mar 24, 2011 4:23 PM EDT reply actions  

*OLB

I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP

formerly patriotguy2 ;)

by Jack'sAxe on Mar 24, 2011 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would trade up

and select Camron Jordon if he were still on the board.

by FloridaPatsFan on Mar 24, 2011 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd trade 17, 60, and a 3rd to get to 10

Then select Aldon Smith, or if he’s gone, Cam Jordan. There are a good bunch of DEs available at the end of the 1st/start of the 2nd.

"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West

by insertscreenname on Mar 24, 2011 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd agree with that.

I don’t believe Aldon Smith is a top ten pick. He has talent. But if you give up that much to get him. He better be a Hall of Fame player. I just don’t see that right now for that much.

by Patriots12 on Mar 24, 2011 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

maybe cameron jordan could be BPA realistically at 17
if BB can make him fit into defense, maybe he would work

by prioris on Mar 24, 2011 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know youtube isn't a good barometer

But from what I saw of Cam he is a pass rusher. Cam Jordan and Cam Heyward are more up the field types than hold the point linemen. I’m sure they can be developed to do well. But that is what I see right now.

by Patriots12 on Mar 25, 2011 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

i get same impression of cam jordan. we could be wrong but it is what we see for now.

by prioris on Mar 25, 2011 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I say priority 1 is OT, but

There are none worth taking at 17 unless both Smith and Carimi or Solder or Castonzo go before 17. I am pretty sure one of those 4 will be there at 28.

I would rather see Cam Jordan or Aldon Smith at 17. A good defensive front seven goes a long way.

Easiest way to avoid a parking ticket: Leave your windshield wipers on high.

by LesterJohn on Mar 24, 2011 6:20 PM EDT reply actions  

you should look where top OL teams drafted their players. so many were UDFA
very few came from first or second round

by prioris on Mar 24, 2011 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Disagree...

…go to Football Outsiders and see the top O-Lines. The majority of the linemen are from the first three rounds. Right Guard is one position where 5th round → UDFA show up a lot, but LT is usually a 1st or 2nd, LG is usually a 2nd, C is a mid-rounder and RT is usually a 2nd or 3rd.

by Richard Hill on Mar 25, 2011 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not sure who you're talking about

Jets were basically all first-rounders, Ravens have their fair share of early-round guys, the best players on the Pats O-line were first- and second-round players. The Packers went from a 50-sack season of Rodgers in 2009 to winning a Super Bowl in 2010, and they added Bryan Bulaga in the first round – that was the difference.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit

by Comedic.Sans on Mar 25, 2011 5:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

Rodger's completion rates were much the same

So he was throwing completions just as often, but got sacked less. Better pocket.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit

by Comedic.Sans on Mar 25, 2011 7:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Plus his last play in 2009 was a strip-sack fumble-ception...

IE – the one play where he couldn’t afford to get hit by a defender, he did. That’s on O-line.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit

by Comedic.Sans on Mar 25, 2011 7:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

We already have a LT, Vollmer.

That’s where you need to draft OL up high. For G/C/RT, you can get lower round guys and UFAs who are good players.

"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West

by insertscreenname on Mar 24, 2011 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Get

Cam J and Cam N for DEs, Use remaining picks for O-line, and maybe draft a late-round RB, WR, or Corner.

I see a 'FORK in the road!

by New Century Silver on Mar 24, 2011 6:47 PM EDT reply actions  

So who's rushing the passer?

"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West

by insertscreenname on Mar 24, 2011 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wonder if the picks for QB are from Pats fans, or drive-bys from other teams.

I almost didn’t include it. Just like I didn’t add “Special Teams”. LOL

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Official Fire-Puncher for Pats Pulpit an SB Nation Blog

by SlotMachinePlayer on Mar 24, 2011 6:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Brady sucks. Sanchez is better

I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP

formerly patriotguy2 ;)

by Jack'sAxe on Mar 24, 2011 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Brady was a lucky pick

by pats4life on Mar 24, 2011 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

BB = value + need + SEC

based on history BB WILL TRADE DOWN.

5 top pass rushers will be gone by 17.

He will trade down to an O lineman from the SEC = Pouncey

Just a thought…..game changing defensive players gone by 17 right?

Would he trade up? Jerry Jones traded with him twice last year.

Don’t write off a “surprise” pick this year. If he likes one of these QB’s (I don’t) he may grab one as the end is in sight (4 year deal) for Giselle’s husband.

by tstorey1 on Mar 25, 2011 2:42 AM EDT reply actions  

Oh God no.

He picked SEC players because that was the best conference, so it would naturally have the best players. Now? Not so much, or rather the other conferences have caught up to them.

Pouncey = DO NOT WANT. If you draft a center in the first, you need to be getting someone like Nick Mangold. Not someone worse than his brother, who was historically overrated in his first NFL season.

I guess the Colts should draft a QB too, then, because they only have one under contract and it’s Curtis Freakin’ Painter. Maybe Bill drafts one in the 4th or later (like he normally does), McElroy or someone similar, with the hope that he shows something down the track and in 5 years’ time is an NFL starter. Not one of the top guys because Brady will retire at some point.

And a trade up is just as likely as a trade down. If the right player is there, he’ll do it. Whether it’s Patrick Peterson at 3 (doubt it), or Aldon Smith at 9 or 10 (hope so).

"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West

by insertscreenname on Mar 25, 2011 4:50 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Pouncey is a guard.

he DID play center before, but I heard he stinks at it.

I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP

formerly patriotguy2 ;)

by Jack'sAxe on Mar 25, 2011 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

stinks?...sucked is the better word.

Non Sibi Sed Patriae ;I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Cameron Heyward-Future 3-4 RDE for the New England Patriots

by NinjaZX6R on Mar 25, 2011 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

This may be kind of a copout.

But there should be an option for BPA. I voted D-Line, and it is the main thing I want to see drafted this year.

But I think we all know BB drafts BPA, and none of us can really predict what position he’s going to take when.

by UtopianAverage on Mar 25, 2011 10:52 AM EDT reply actions  

That's a valid answer, and that's what I advocate all the time, but I listed the positions in the order I thought we had need.

I just wanted to see other people’s thoughts as well, and Best Player Available doesn’t give me that.

We have a lot of smart fans here, and BPA would likely be the most selected. I just wanted to see what folks thought our greatest need is.

Good point, though.

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Official Fire-Puncher for Pats Pulpit an SB Nation Blog

by SlotMachinePlayer on Mar 25, 2011 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

this is how it will go guys

no need to even tune in for the draft
17- traded down for the 21st pick and 88th
21st pick used on offensive tackle Gabe Carimi
28- traded for 2012 1st round pick with the Cleveland Browns
33- traded for 2012 1st round pick with the San Francisco 49ers
74th pick and 88th pick traded up to 53rd
53rd pick used to select player that fell down the draft, running back Mark Ingram
62nd pick traded for 2012 2nd round pick
92nd pick used to select outside linebacker Brooks Reed

the remaining picks will be shipped to the Oakland Raiders for their 1st round pick in 2012. The Patriots will then have 4 1st rounders in 2012, and from there they will proceed to wheel and deal the pick until 2020, when the Patriots will then own every pick in the NFL Draft except for the Colts picks…cause Polian hates Belichick

by pats4life on Mar 25, 2011 1:59 PM EDT reply actions  

that is the master plan

by prioris on Mar 25, 2011 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

That sounds almost perfect, actually.

A lot of people don’t know this, but Bill Belichick grew up very poor. When he was a kid, they didn’t have a single draft pick to their name. He vowed that would never happen again, and now he always makes sure he has a draft pick or two in the bank.

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Official Fire-Puncher for Pats Pulpit an SB Nation Blog

by SlotMachinePlayer on Mar 25, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Only the 21st and 88th?

Not really worth it, then. Might as well have made the pick at 17.

"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West

by insertscreenname on Mar 26, 2011 7:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

A New England Patriots Blog

Media requests: Please email patspulpit at gmail.com


Managing Editor

Patriot_small Greg Knopping

Assistant Editor

Belichick_2_small Marima

Headshotoj_small Richard Hill

Dscn0127_small Jared Stegall

Contributing Writers

Photo_small Austin Martin

Small Stephen Verman

Bill-belichick_small Ashto12

Peter-heisman_small Alec Shane

Moderators

Kiwi_small Comedic.Sans

A-clockwork-orange-alex_small Jack'sAxe