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Wednesday Wondering: Are the Patriots still a draw for Skilled Aging Veterans?


From three time Pro Bowl (at the time) running back Corey Dillon, to two time Pro Bowl and one time All Pro (at the time) strong safety Rodney Harrison, to twelve time Pro Bowl and nine time All Pro linebacker Junior Seau, to five time Pro Bowl and three time All Pro (at the time) receiver Randy Moss the Patriots have long had a knack of finding skilled veterans who had enough left in the tank to help the team in their Super Bowl aspirations.  These are players who had already made a name for themselves elsewhere; some of whom had legitimate Hall of Fame bids without ever wearing the Flying Elvis.  Some, like Dillon and Moss, had a troubled past.  All were looking for that one thing they had never achieved in their professional career: a Super Bowl ring.

With the Patriots winning a Super Bowl in 2001 and narrowly avoiding the playoffs in 2002, they were an up and coming team with legitimate playoff hopes.  After they won back to back Lombardis in 2003 and 2004, they were THE TEAM to join if you had talent and wanted a ring.  The loss to the Giants in 2007, in my opinion, did nothing to tarnish that standard.  If for no other reason than the perfect regular season.  They had actually been to the big game, after all, even if they hadn't won it. 

In 2008, they lost Tom Brady and went 11-5 with a backup that hadn't played a meaningful game since high school.  The glitter from the rings was hardly tarnished at all by that little set back.  Since that time, though, the team has gone one and done in the playoffs two years in a row.  Sure they actually made it to the playoffs, but the last three playoff games have been losses.  The last ring was earned in a game seven season's ago.  Are the Patriots still a draw for big names looking at one last shot at glory?

Star-divide

My heartfelt opinion would have to be "yes" with a few BUTS thrown in for good measure.  Take Julius Peppers who had the Pats on his short list of teams he'd like to join.  He was atrracted, BUT he wasn't going to drop his asking price one dime for "a chance at a ring".  Take Jason Taylor who was looking at Foxboro before he settled in New Jersey.  He was attracted, BUT the Patriots were just one team on his short list - perhaps not even in the top three.  Take Chad Johnson, the prima donna formerly known as Ochocinco, who has much respect for a certain behooded coach.  He'd like to join the Patriots, BUT he's also interested in ANY team in our division that's not in upstate New York.

At this point in time, there will be no price cuts to play for a "contender".  There will be no preference given to a team that makes early exits from the playoffs.  Oh sure, the Patriots are still among the top twelve teams that have a shot at the title.  Of late, though, they're sliding down that list.  The Jets, for instance, have come closer the last two years.  Green Bay and New Orleans are good young teams with rings on their fingers.  The Patriots three rings shine no brighter than the five the 49ers earned long ago.  In a "what have you done for me lately" league, the Patriots haven't done nearly enough.  When it comes to attracting free agents, I'm afraid, they've become just another team.  Let me know what you think.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks to AtomicDawg for this week's question. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Poll
Are the Patriots still highly attractive to free agents?
Yes, the Patriots are perennial contenders.
353 votes
No, they are just another team.
76 votes

429 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 36 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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people would go elsewhere for more money. lol

I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP

formerly patriotguy2 ;)

by Jack'sAxe on Mar 9, 2011 2:29 PM EST reply actions  

The Patriots are still perennial contenders,

but I voted no because I don’t think we are attractive to older veterans anymore with all of the young talent on this team. It’s one thing to join a group of other veterans and to try to be the “last piece of the puzzle” but I don’t think older guys want to come in and compete/tutor younger players.

by DrJgopatsgators on Mar 9, 2011 2:43 PM EST reply actions  

I agree with some of that..

But I still feel as though this atmosphere is the best you can have. And then all of the names mentioned save Jason Taylor wanted money. Julius Peppers wanted to get paid. I believe that more that Patriots need to develop their own guys now more than ever. Chad wouldn’t be a good fit here. Only because I’d like to see what we have in Tate and Price.

by Patriots12 on Mar 9, 2011 2:53 PM EST up reply actions  

IMHO i've already seen enough of Tate. And that is just one reason why i want us to take

a true “burner” that some people try to build Tate as.

Don't cut your locks Tom Terrific!
Life is about who makes it, not who makes it the fastest! Drive slow homie.

by PatNation85 on Mar 9, 2011 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah I'm the same way about Tate

He’s a kick returner, not a deep threat. Price will be an elite downfield receiver if he can learn the route trees, or he at least has the physical ability.

Deep in enemy territory

by JeffyB on Mar 9, 2011 4:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Who would you take?

Steve Smith is getting older. And has been beaten up the last two seasons with broken arms. Fitzgerald is nice but what would it take to get him? I still like Tate because last season was his first true season in the offense. I see that I am in the minority though.

by Patriots12 on Mar 9, 2011 7:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Idk

But he wasn’t getting separation and dropped too many balls that hit him in the hands. Having said that he did make some nice catches, so it might be a confidence thing that works itself out as he gets more comfortable.

I bet the 3rd WR position battle comes down to Tate vs. Price in camp. Not sure who gets the nod.

Deep in enemy territory

by JeffyB on Mar 9, 2011 10:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Tate is certainly

…still a developing product. He’s better than Chad Johnson ever was. This is the year to evaluate where he is going to be.

by pablum257 on Mar 9, 2011 10:11 PM EST up reply actions  

...

Chad Jackson makes more sense here.

Chad Johnson/Ochcinco definitely doesn’t.

"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West

by insertscreenname on Mar 9, 2011 11:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Let's hope he meant Jackson.

Overall, I think the Jets sort of replaced you guys in the “all the older veterans want to play with us” department, for better or for worse. It might just be a one year thing, but the 2010 Jets were the destination for old veterans.

I think the Pats have past that point, but probably by choice. They have a good young nucleus. It was the transition period between the dynasty and now, like 2005-2009, that really saw the Pats get older stop-gap vets.

EVH+DLR=BFFs........ God I Hope So!!

by dmstorm22 on Mar 9, 2011 11:12 PM EST up reply actions  

The Rex Ryan factor, yep.

I’m waiting 3 years for him to be back as someone’s DC because his team returns to its natural “eh” level.

"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West

by insertscreenname on Mar 10, 2011 5:55 AM EST up reply actions  

3 years sounds about right lol

The talent level of their younger players is pretty mediocre. When the rent-a-vets leave and teams can throw away from Revis at will that defense is going to become a big liability. Mark Sanchez is another thing entirely. He lacks so many fundamental traits that you look for in a QB that I can’t help but think he might still be having his “Sanchez” moments 2 or 3 years from now. Or maybe he’s just colorblind, Idk.

Deep in enemy territory

by JeffyB on Mar 10, 2011 8:10 AM EST up reply actions  

When are teams going to be able to throw away from Revis at will?

Brady certainly couldn’t in the playoffs? Manning couldn’t. Ben in reality couldn’t. Their whole secondary is great. They do need some young pass rushers.

Their o-line is young, Shonn Greene is young. Holmes, if he’s resigned, is still young. Sanchez is young. That team has a lot of talented youngsters. They’ll be good for a while.

EVH+DLR=BFFs........ God I Hope So!!

by dmstorm22 on Mar 10, 2011 1:03 PM EST up reply actions  

They have a great CB, yes.

But other than Revis and Ryan’s scheme (he was pretty good in Baltimore, too), there’s not a lot there. If Holmes returns, there’s another piece (he’s better than Edwards, who is really only a one-trick pony). Sanchez didn’t improve that much – he had 13+ dropped interceptions, and still finished with 13 INTs (Henne, by comparison, had 19 INTs, but only one dropped). He still makes bad decisions. Harris is good, but he’s no Ray Lewis (he’s more like Mayo). The Jets team this year was a veteran team, constucted to win a Super Bowl this year, not compete for the next 5. Maybe their young guys develop, and they do join the Pats/Colts/Steelers group for the foreseeable future. Maybe not, given how little time anyone other than Sanchez got in 2010.

"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West

by insertscreenname on Mar 10, 2011 9:07 PM EST up reply actions  

The point was a lot of those other pieces are rentals

Not guys looking for a long term home, just a ring and a payday. Their D-line is old, their linebackers aren’t great.

And, for what it’s worth, Brady had no trouble doing that on Monday Night Football. At all.

Deep in enemy territory

by JeffyB on Mar 11, 2011 4:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I most certainly meant...

Chad Jackson :)

Tate is certainly still a developing product. He’s better than Chad Jackson ever was. This is the year to evaluate where he is going to be.

by pablum257 on Mar 15, 2011 1:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

As long as this team continues to reach the playoffs every year, they're a draw for skilled players of all ages

People respect the wins, the team culture, the Hoodie, and the team talent. A couple of one-and-dones in the playoffs doesn’t take that away.

Shawn Camp earned my dog several beatings back in 2007

by wtbudlight on Aug 30, 2010 5:54 PM PDT

by IntrepidX on Mar 9, 2011 3:32 PM EST reply actions  

One point I steered completely clear of is offensive talent vs defensive talent.

If someone is throwing the ball to you, having that someone be Tom Brady might still be a draw.

On the defensive side, well, not so much.

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Official Fire-Puncher for Pats Pulpit an SB Nation Blog

by SlotMachinePlayer on Mar 9, 2011 3:56 PM EST reply actions  

I think your poll doesn't match your title, Slot.

The Patriots from what I’ve seen are not exactly Veteran friendly. They’ll keep a few, but in reality they have so many draft picks each year because they get rid of these FA vets for new blood. They are more likely to start a career rather than be the place to end one.

And the home of the .... JETS!!!
Now lets get a G-D snack!!!

by Noble_Lance on Mar 9, 2011 5:09 PM EST reply actions  

I don't know. They're pretty close:

Are the Patriots still highly attractive to free agents?
Are the Patriots still a draw for Skilled Aging Veterans?

Free agency is after 4 years, “aging” is what? Eight years maybe. Ok, the windows may not completely line up.

The Pats haven’t always had so many draft picks, but they’ve been swimming in them the last few years. Every once in awhile, though, we’ll grab a guy like Alge Crumpler to fill a role. I think he’s one of the reasons Hernandez and Gronkowski did so well last year.

The guys that can play, stay. It doesn’t matter if you’re a first round pick, a sixth round pick, a bargain basement guy or someone on a big contract. If they can fit you in Salary Cap and you can play you’re in. The problem comes if they have to pay you more for more or less the same quality as someone who’s cut rate. That’s when the bottom line kicks in.

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Official Fire-Puncher for Pats Pulpit an SB Nation Blog

by SlotMachinePlayer on Mar 9, 2011 5:23 PM EST up reply actions  

They trade a lot of the picks away.

So it looks like they always have a ton of picks, but if you don’t use them then you are just always stockpiling for next year.

Critical draft coming up.

by BabeParilli on Mar 11, 2011 1:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks for the nod, SMP

Thinking about this…I feel that the way jobs are across this country, players are just happy to be employed, and are happy to find a team that can accept their skill. It sounds weird and non-Patriot like, but even though I voted for “yes”..I lean towards no because of the circumstances of the time.

Now, when it comes to the Patriots using the skills of the players to their advantage, that goes both ways. Joey Galloway and Torry Holt are big examples of how an older vet can accept a spot on the roster, but then shows nothing to deserve it and keep it.

I kind of feel this way about Marcus Stroud. Yes, he is getting long in the tooth, but with the D-line having a few young guns there (and possibly might have a few more before camps are ready to commence), he may be able to show the kids how a vet does it, and it may work to our benefit.

"All truths are easy to understand once discovered; the point is to discover them." - Galileo

by AtomicDawg on Mar 9, 2011 5:50 PM EST reply actions  

No problem, I need all the ideas I can get.

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Official Fire-Puncher for Pats Pulpit an SB Nation Blog

by SlotMachinePlayer on Mar 9, 2011 5:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Holt?

He seemed fine until he got hurt.

by pablum257 on Mar 9, 2011 10:13 PM EST up reply actions  

It was a small sample size really...

he had the one or two practice in training camp and then got hurt..and even in those few practices he wasn’t really wowing folks like Tate was at the time (go figure!).

"All truths are easy to understand once discovered; the point is to discover them." - Galileo

by AtomicDawg on Mar 10, 2011 12:49 PM EST up reply actions  

I think it has as much to do with the culture as with the rings.

Not that the two are entirely separable, but I think veterans hear what a great place this is for football-focused vets who want to treat this as a job (not just a game) and expect others to be held to the same expectation. That’s not what everyone wants, though. Rex Ryan runs a very different type of team, where it’s a lot more about personal camaraderie and funny shenanigans, and plenty of players prefer that (though, IMHO, they’re not the type of players I’d want, nor would Belichick want). Recent rings might be a determining factor for some vets, but I think the ones that take Belchick’s approach to the game will be attracted to New England regardless.

by nbradley07 on Mar 9, 2011 5:53 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Good point.

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Official Fire-Puncher for Pats Pulpit an SB Nation Blog

by SlotMachinePlayer on Mar 9, 2011 6:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Negotiations

I wonder how tense negotiations with Mankins may have affected the team’s attractiveness to free agents (or didn’t)…

by AGuinness on Mar 9, 2011 8:53 PM EST reply actions  

Something Heath Evans said comes to mind...

He said he’d only play for Coach Payton’s Saints or Coach Belichick’s Patriots, because he only wants to play if he’s expecting to win, and those guys give him the best chance week-in, week-out.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit

by Comedic.Sans on Mar 10, 2011 2:05 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

One of my fav things about the pats is this. JR coming back again and again was awesome.

by Bloodsport on Mar 10, 2011 6:21 AM EST reply actions  

I would estimate

this poll is a good measure of the typical Pat’s fan’s sense of reality. So, 17% have an accurate sense of reality. That seems about right.

Critical draft coming up.

by BabeParilli on Mar 11, 2011 1:57 PM EST reply actions  

Well, I voted no,

not because I wouldn’t want 18 games, but because I am unsure of how you get the extra 2 opponents. What way would be fair to all teams? do you play the opposite teams in the other conference divisions (for example, the Pats would be in line to play the last placed teams from the AFC South and North if they went to 18 games in 2011, since we are playing the West and all first placed teams)? Do you play two teams at random (or in alphabetical order or something) from the other conference? Do you play the equally ranked inter-conference team, and the opposite-ranked inter-conference team (so the Pats would play Atlanta and Carolina in 2011)?

"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West

by insertscreenname on Mar 12, 2011 9:11 AM EST up reply actions  

It'd definitely throw a joker into the mix

Larry Fitzgerald said that the Bills, even though they were 4th in the AFC East, were good enough to win the NFC West as-is. Giving the Bills two freebie games by making them play 4th ranked NFC teams means they have an almost automatic two-game lead on the Pats, Jets, etc.

Some pretty bad teams could make the playoffs and some pretty good teams could miss out if it’s going to be a ‘play 6 opponents who are all #1 in their division’ season.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit

by Comedic.Sans on Mar 12, 2011 7:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm sure

the league would try to enhance their parity tactic with the extra two games, as it makes money to have as many teams in the mix as possible. But I’m ok with that. Whoever wins it all should be running the same gauntlet.

Like the players, you would whine too if somebody tried to end your gravy-train.

by BabeParilli on Mar 16, 2011 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

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