Patriots Rookie Projections: Ras-I Dowling
by Greg Knopping on May 11, 2011 12:00 PM EDT
in New England Patriots NFL Draft
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The second in a series looking at the Patriots' 2011 NFL Draft picks, and the roles they might play for the Patriots next year.
Name: Ras-I Dowling
School: Virginia
Position: Cornerback
Drafted: 2nd Round, 33rd Overall
Projected Stats: 14 GP, 2 Starts; 33 tackles, 8 PD, 2 INTs
Projected Role: A big, physical cornerback, Ras-I Dowling projects as an outside or boundary cornerback in the Patriots defensive system. While the Patriots could try moving him around, based on his skillset, I believe he fits best on the outside and not in the slot. However, I could see the Patriots experimenting with him as an extra defensive back in a safety-esque role at times. Regardless, I think Dowling will be the Patriots' top back-up boundary cornerback. I think he could see some time there at the nickel possibly with Devin McCourty covering the slot. I do not think he will overtake Bodden this year (or even next), although I do think he will give him some rest. With his size, he will have an immediate impact on special teams. My only concern with Dowling is his ability to stay healthy. I have him missing two games next season. However, if he can avoid injury, he could have a pretty nice impact next year.
Bottom Line: Top back-up at boundary CB in 2011, starter by 2012/13
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I don't think many people are going to agree with me but...
I’m a huge Dowling fan and not really big on Leigh Bodden – but that’s just me. If I had to guess, I would see Dowling overtaking the other starting position by the end of the year, but I don’t really have rationale to back that up except to say that I think he’s better haha.
On the other hand, I wouldn’t be surprised if he ended up getting serious looks at the free safety slot and would be a terrific complement to Chung. But that’s thinking outside the box.
Either way, Dowling’s going to get a ton of PT this season, lining up on most special teams and on defense frequently at the very least in the nickel package as an outside guy or safety.
I don't think you are way off
Watching Bodden, I wasn’t overly impressed. But the stats said he was one of the best corners in the NFL. Tough to know what coaches and scouts think, but I have to trust the stats over my eyes, simply because I barely see what he does off camera.
Hey, You're not dressed for an afternoon of Tchaikovsky and heavy petting!
Belichick rated him with his wallet...
and re-signed the guy to a pretty big deal, so clearly Hoodie is impressed. And that’s the same Hoodie who didn’t want to sign Asante Samuel to a big-money deal, or re-sign Ty Law when he was beginning to slow down.
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by Comedic.Sans on May 13, 2011 3:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Is it really comparable when they were valued at different prices? How much could Bodden realistically ask for?
And that’s the same Hoodie who didn’t want to sign Asante Samuel to a big-money deal,
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Don't cut your locks Tom Terrific!
Life is about who makes it, not who makes it the fastest! Drive slow homie.
$22 million dollars.
Which is what he got.
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by Comedic.Sans on May 13, 2011 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions
i dont think there is a injury concern with dowing.
well anymore then any other football player. he got injured his senior season that could happen to any player but he was pretty durable for his college career. i am high on dowling he is a high character player with 1st round talent and he played for groh for 3 years and al said most of the terminology and plays of the defense were the same so he will have a advantage over any rookie going into the season.
And with todays passing offenses you need
3 starting corners and with dowling the pats will have 3 starting caliber cornerbacks in mcourty ,bodden, dowling and arrington as the 4th and imagine if butler puts it together match that up with up and coming chung and the talented yet frustrating merriweather and the sure and steady james sanders that is a heck of a secondary if you ask me.
by brady12mvp3 on May 11, 2011 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
…talented yet frustrating merriweather…
Don’t you mean 2 time pro bowler Merriweather? j/k
by BenCoatesFTW on May 11, 2011 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Pro bowler
That right there is why the pro bowl is a joke and I like merriweather. He shouldn’t have been there
by brady12mvp3 on May 11, 2011 5:53 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I like Chung but i think folks are already placing him up on this high pedestal. Besides the 1st Bills game and
1st Miami game, his performance were quite sporadic.
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Don't cut your locks Tom Terrific!
Life is about who makes it, not who makes it the fastest! Drive slow homie.
were was
Lewis Hamilton~ 2011 F1 Champion!!!
Don't cut your locks Tom Terrific!
Life is about who makes it, not who makes it the fastest! Drive slow homie.
A first-year starter played like a first-year starter? It happens.
Miami and Bills games showed the kid has upside.
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by Comedic.Sans on May 12, 2011 4:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Secondary will be strength of Pats D
There is so much youth/talent/speed in the Patriots secondary it’s down right scary…if these guys all improve & really start to gel as a unit & trust each other then opposing QB’s will be victims of the best ball hawking secondary in the NFL….YIKES!!!!
by KissBillsRings on May 11, 2011 12:20 PM EDT reply actions
Not when they have all day to find a receiver to throw to. Regardless of how good/great a WR is, if the QB has time to
pass, the WR will eventually break free.
Lewis Hamilton~ 2011 F1 Champion!!!
Don't cut your locks Tom Terrific!
Life is about who makes it, not who makes it the fastest! Drive slow homie.
True
If you look at last year’s games, though, Cunningham was about a step away before the QB victimized Butler, Arrington, or Chung (in the slot – yikes). If we bought ourselves a half second in the secondary, then we may already have the pass rush.
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by SlotMachinePlayer on May 11, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
From your finger tips to Gods eyes.
Lewis Hamilton~ 2011 F1 Champion!!!
Don't cut your locks Tom Terrific!
Life is about who makes it, not who makes it the fastest! Drive slow homie.
I wonder
if Belichick moved away from emphasizing the pass rush at least in part because of how over-protected QBs are, these days. It seems to me that every solid hit on the QB has about a 1/3 chance of drawing a flag, thus negating a sack or incompletion in favor of 15 yards and a new set of downs. DBs don’t have the rules as stacked against them (relatively speaking, of course – the rules still favor the offense). I know he’s always evaluating every position from every possible angle, but it still remains somewhat curious to me Belichick’s seemingly sudden shift to building up talent in the secondary. He went from almost never drafting or spending good money on DBs to drafting a first round safety, a first round CB, two second round CBs and a second round safety, and signing Bodden to a big deal over the past 3-4 years. Just a thought.
by nbradley07 on May 11, 2011 12:48 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
I think BB has confidence in his young guys
as well as some veterans they acquired. I don’t. I also don’t believe in that line of thinking. Teams prove it over and over again against the top QB’s (and lesser ones). Make the QB uncomfortable as much as possible. This is done via pressure. Coverage has little effect on the QB because they can throw the ball away or put the ball in places their guys can get it. In their mind it’s “I’ll get them on the next pass”. If you bring pressure all day, the QB feels it, they hear footsteps before they even exist, their throwing clock speeds up and they anticipate pressure before the play starts. Look at Brady vs. the Jets last year. He looked hurried and uncomfortable. The Jets had decent coverage, but it was the pressure that got to Brady.
This was not addressed yet. Their secondary could be amazing if they could get pressure from the front. You can’t cover guys that long no matter who you are. Then you put safeties in cerebral situations on almost every play and that leads to mistakes we saw from Merriweather and others at times.
I seriously hope somebody steps up, because 11-2 won’t come easy this year. You can’t depend on turnovers and capitalizing on them all the time. It’s not sustainable.
you are correct on the turnovers
you cant depend on them and its rare to have the remarkable turnover differential the pats had last year. but in my opinion the defense got better and better as the season went on. it is a young defense and lost 2 veteran starters in warren and bodden in camp. to be honest this lockout is really hindering the pats defense . with a lot of rookies going into year 2 and a lot of year 3 players there could be room for huge leap this year in putting together talent and exp but this lockout isnt helping that.
If brady throws 10 more interceptions
next year than last, it is still an excellent record. That’s how off the charts last season was.
It is really not a shift in philosophy. The only dependable corner the Patriots had last season was Devin McCourty. So why not try to help yourself with a few more bodies? Ras-I has potential. Hamstring injuries happen. If he had an ACL issue then I would be very concerned. But a broken ankle isn’t that big of an issue.
Not saying the Ras-I pick represented a shift.
The shift started with the Meriweather pick, I think. From 2000-2006, Belichick selected only a single DB, Eugene Wilson, higher than the third round (Wilson was taken with a high second round pick – #36 overall). There were a few thirds, a few fourths, and a handful of lower picks, but it was evidently not a highly-valued position. Since 2006, he’s taken 2 DBs in the 1st round and 4 DBs in the second round. Belichick definitely changed his tune on the value of DBs, at least in the draft.
He had to. With Ty Law leaving and only Asante Samuel as the real deal. Depth behind the top corners has been something of an issue for New England.
well
NBradley is right. I think BB has realized that the NFL has become a passing league. With the addition of QB protection rules, pressure + coverage becomes more important than sacks.
Look what the Jets did to the Colts and then us. Rushed 3 and played coverage. They shut down two top QB in back to back weeks.
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In Bill We Trust.
Of course, when you can get there with 3 guys it's much better...
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by insertscreenname on May 12, 2011 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions
they didnt rush 3 all the time though.
rex ryan blitzes all the time. If rushing 3 and dropping back the others is working, than he’ll do it, but he uses the jets defense as an overload, pass rush defense…. most of the time.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
Not for that game.
Sure he blitzed few times but for the most part, he scaled down the blitz against us and the colts.
Non Sibi Sed Patriae ;I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life.
In Bill We Trust.
I'm concerned about whether or not Ty Warren and Leigh Bodden come back and play at a high-caliber again
but I love the Ras-I Dowling pick.
know that luck favors the prepared. - SMP
I don't think there's as much pressure on Bodden as Warren.
Warren really needs to come back and contribute, I think BB is expecting that. Bodden has a lot more insurance between Dowling and Arrington, who can both be serviceable at worst next year.
i think warren will come back and will be better
he playerd most of 09 with this injury and wasnt 100 percent and when it still wasnt healed in camp last year it was either get it fixed right or play at whatever percent he was. him/team decided to get it done right and be done with it. so he will be back 100 percent in 2011.
nbradley07 I am in agreement with you on Belichick
He just doesn’t spend money rushing the passer. The stats don’t lie. Pats lead league in picks because there are more Pats dropping into coverage. When you blitz, which Belichick does less frequently than someone like Rex, you are vacating a zone, this adds pressure on the remaining secondary/linebackers.
I assume he is reacting to changes in the nature of the NFL. There are a host of QB protecting penalties. (Brady knows every one of them BTW) Belichick watches the stats carefully. A penalty against the opposing QB isn’t as bad as a turnover, but, it is a disaster. From a defensive perspective, a completed five to seven yard out pattern is a better result than 15 yards and an automatic first down. I think this may be bend don’t break II. Minimum of six guys dropping soft until you get to the Patriots 45 yard line, then the endzone is your “seventh” defensive back. A short field is bad because field goal range is getting close, but, for the secondary it is a blessing….less real estate to worry about.
Belichick preaches that turnovers lose games. If you are looking for a turnover where are you going to find one? 6 or 7 patriots defenders dropping into coverage “found” more turnovers (interceptions) than any other team. The QB penalties make sacking a dangerous game. What the hell, upgrade your DB’s, make sure you have LB’s that can drop with the best of them, drop the extra guy and get the turnovers that will make the OTHER team lose the game….14-2….hmmmm.
If Belicheck
passed on pass rushers in this year’s draft because of Refs, then IMO that is a fail. The last 4 Super Bowl teams had great pass rush and got alot of sacks. Sure some of the sacks might have cause penalties but the good (forcing the QB to get ride of the ball before he wants to, keeping him and thus the entire offense out of rhythm, forcing bad throws into coverage) vastly out weighs the bad ( a 15 yard penalty that might be called one of the four times you sack the QB)
The Saints had a great pass rush?
lol.Sacking the QB means jack squat if you sack the QB on 1st down and on the next down, he throws a completion to get the 1st down.
There were no true 34 OLB that fit our system in this draft. No way in hell that BB would take a flyer with a 1st or a 2nd round selection on a 3rd down player. That’s a misuse of a pick and a roster spot.
Non Sibi Sed Patriae ;I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life.
In Bill We Trust.
How can you be sure
That there were no OLB/DEs in the 2011 Draft that were better than TBC. BB has been wrong before, his evaluations aren’t perfect so it’s fair to question his decision to pass on pretty much all that pass rushing talent. I know how good BB is. Hell there is a good chance Markell Carter could develop into that guy we need. He could be one of his trademark diamond in the ruff picks. But Bill has passed on good 3-4 OLB prospects before so to think that maybe there were some good 3-4 OLBs in the top of this draft that could easily take the TBC starting job and tremendously help this team pass rush isn’t completely crazy.
by Chris Kole on May 13, 2011 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's not drafting for need.
It’s that the OLBs in the 2011 draft weren’t as good as the OTs, OGs, QBs, CBs or RBs.
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by Comedic.Sans on May 13, 2011 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
What proof do you have of this exactly? Is it solely based on the belief that because BB didn't get a pass
rusher, we are all to now assume, ‘ok, our pass rush was awesome all along’?
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Facepalm
How many times do I need to quote Belichick saying he doesn’t draft for need, but takes Best Player Available?
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by Comedic.Sans on May 14, 2011 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
BS
BB often drafts players to fill needs. The best player available isn’t always the player you need. Just look at this draft. He needed a tackle, he drafted a tackle. He needed a RB in 06, he drafted one, he needed some LBs & TEs he drafted some LBs and TEs early. He needed a safety in 07, drafted one. 08 needed a good ILB, drafted one. It wasn’t just some big coincidence that all these players were “the best players available at that spot regardless of need”. No, he factors in need to the player’s grade. Need may not overweight the player’s actually ability over other players, but it is a significant factor.
here are some rules to live by as a GM
1. You never NEED a running back. You NEED a running game. Best solutions are: A. good offensive line. B. good quarterback to allow a passing game and running game to work cohesively
2. You never NEED a tight end. You NEED to be able to run and pass. A tight end is a simple way to give yourself BOTH of those facets with one player. They have a unique skill set, but they are not easy to find.
3. You never NEED a safety. You NEED good pass defense. This is mostly a result of: A. good cornerback play. B. good front 7 play. C. complex defensive schemes.
Now of course Belichick drafts for need, but it isn’t the same type of need that everyone is getting all uppity over. This was by far a weaker draft class than 2010 was. This is a result of the talented players that were supposed to come out this year coming out last year (2010). 2012 will have all the talent that withheld coming into the league during the uncertain labor situation. If you group 3 drafts, 2010-2012, 2011 will be the weakest. Belichick saw that and made sure he had serious stock in 2012. Let the man do his job.
know that luck favors the prepared. - SMP
by pats4life on May 15, 2011 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Fine
“I try to take the player that you feel like is the best player,” Belichick said. “It’s great to say, ‘OK, we have a need at this position, so now we have a card to put up there in that spot.’ But if that player isn’t able to really fulfill that area or that position, then you’re coming back here the next year looking for the same thing again.”
…
“If you believe in your system and you believe in your grades, you’ve studied that all year, and those are the players that you have a conviction on, you’re probably better off staying with them on draft day rather than trying to recreate a guy five minutes before you pick because of some arbitrary reason,” Belichick said. “Go with what you believe in.”
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by Comedic.Sans on May 16, 2011 5:02 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Best. Player. Available.
Do not draft a position, because if the player is no good, you have to draft that same position the next year. Best. Player. Available.
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by Comedic.Sans on May 16, 2011 5:03 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He was best player available.
And he had a pretty good rookie season, last time I checked. He’s also very quick, and a good kick returner. The fact he had a rough second season just means he had a rough second season.
You know who else had a rough second season after a good rookie season? The guy who was picked in the very next pick – Jairus Byrd. And the guy after him was Everette Brown (who?) and the guy after that was Pat White (haha). Then Clint Sintim, Connor Barwin, and Michael Mitchell. None of those guys have produced more than Darius Butler’s 58 tackles, 3 interceptions, 14 passes broken up.
So yes. Best player available.
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by Comedic.Sans on May 16, 2011 6:46 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
BTW one thing everyone seems to forget about Darius Butler.
During all those cute Arrington at 4-3 DE plays Butler was playing Corner… and playing well.
Butler started coming on a lot late in the year, and that led to Arrington getting more rest, or being moved to DE at times.
I feel that a lot of those cute packages were not only built to confuse the Offense, but also built to get Butler and Arrington on the field at the same time.
by UtopianAverage on May 16, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Byrd was still very solid against the run, even if he had just 1 INT in 2010.
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by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on May 21, 2011 2:26 AM EDT up reply actions
And if you look back to the last time the Pats really did draft for need...
You get Laurence Maroney and Chad Jackson. Logan Mankins might count, except the Pats still had Steve Neal and Russ Hochstein on the roster at that point, so even he was Best Player Available by how the Pats ranked (the rest of the NFL had Mankins tabbed as a 3rd or 4th round OT, not a first-round OG).
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by Comedic.Sans on May 16, 2011 6:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh so
when it’s a bust it must be a need pick, but when he’s a good player it was best player available. Nope I do not think he drafts that way. BTW i haven’t written off Butler just yet, i just put him there because he applied to that quote. But the fact BB drafting CBs high every year reveal he’s missed alot on that position.
your definition of "high" would need to be known
before that sentence made sense
know that luck favors the prepared. - SMP
No, when it was a need pick it turned into a bust.
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by Comedic.Sans on May 17, 2011 6:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Gronk, Spikes, Cunningham
were all players in positions of need, and right now they’re the future of this team.
So those would be need picks that greatly panned out for the pats.
Gronkowski had to be the best player on his board though.
Spikes too. Cunningham… I guess he liked him, because he sure as sh!t didn’t like anyone this year…
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
by insertscreenname on May 18, 2011 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions
We traded up to get Gronk
we didn’t wait for him to fall to us because if we did we would be able to fill that need with a stud player we liked. Spikes,Cunningham, and Hernandez he had inside info on and was more sure about them than the other players. So he thought he had a good idea of what he was getting and choose to fill our needs with those players.
Hernandez fell to the 4th because of the ganja.
He was thought of as second round talent. So come the 4th round (and probably for the entirety of the 3rd round), he was at the top of Belichick’s board.
Drafting someone says he’s the best guy on the board. Trading up for someone means he’s the best player available at a real position of need.
No point taking a player not worth the pick because he fills a need. If he drafts someone, it’s because they were ranked at the top of the board, or so close to it that he might as well have been while fulfilling a position of need. He’s not going to pass over 4 CBs and OLs to grab a DE or OLB that he doesn’t think is good enough for the pick.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
by insertscreenname on May 18, 2011 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions
BPA means Best Player Available
Of course you trade up to get a first-round talent that slips to the second round, especially when a team that drafts similarly to you (the Ravens, since Belichick trained Ozzie Newsome how to draft) would take the guy if you didn’t.
BPA.
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by Comedic.Sans on May 19, 2011 7:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Wut?
Mayo and Guyton were starting ILBs. Spikes was BPA.
Cunningham was BPA – they didn’t take Carlos Dunlap when Dunlap was going to be a sack-king, they took the all-rounder in Cunningham. He was BPA.
Gronkowski was clearly BPA – he was a first-round talent who dropped to the second because of injury issues.
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by Comedic.Sans on May 19, 2011 7:11 AM EDT up reply actions
It's funny
cause JC was considered a 1st round pick during his junior year.
Non Sibi Sed Patriae ;I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life.
In Bill We Trust.
If by
best player available, you mean best player available that fills a need, than yes they took the best players available in that draft.
I liked you better when your username was BP
know that luck favors the prepared. - SMP
by pats4life on May 19, 2011 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
LOL
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by Comedic.Sans on May 20, 2011 5:02 AM EDT up reply actions
They're hardly going to take the BPA at another position like, say, QB
Oh wait…
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
by insertscreenname on May 19, 2011 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep
Nate Solder got drafted pretty much where he was meant to, maybe even a touch later than he could’ve gone.
Ras-I Dowling was a guy touted as a first-rounder until he got hurt – BPA as he was 1st round talent, 2nd round pick.
Shane Vereen was a second-rounder taken in the second-round. He’s got added value to the Patriots because he’s precisely what the Patriots want – an all-round RB who will fit well in a RBBC.
Ditto with Ridley – he’s the thunder to Vereen’s lightning.
Mallett was clearly BPA. First-round talent, 3rd round pick.
Marcus Cannon – first or early-second round talent, 5th round pick.
Lee Smith’s a guy who has added value to NE because he’ll fit the system well. He’s also a touch project-y – there’s whispers about the idea of turning him into an OT, given his frame and the fact the Pats do a lot of TE-to-OT conversion jobs.
…etc.
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by Comedic.Sans on May 20, 2011 5:10 AM EDT up reply actions
you forgot LS for Lee Smith!
Non Sibi Sed Patriae ;I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life.
In Bill We Trust.
True.
Dowling, Ridley, Smith, Carter and Malcolm Williams all play a lot of special teams.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit
by Comedic.Sans on May 20, 2011 5:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Ok
so can we agree that the patriots drafted players that filled big needs in that 2010 draft and if we didn’t have those needs we probably wouldn’t have drafted alot of them?
Because
would we really have drafted two RBs if Kevin Faulk if was 26 and had 5 years left on his contract and instead of drafting Maroney we drafted Maurice Jones Drew in 06?
This is kinda an off the wall question but do the words "The Blue Chipper" mean anything to you?
If knowledge is power and power corrupts...
Yes.
Pats have drafted an RB (or taken one as an UFA) every single year.
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by Comedic.Sans on May 20, 2011 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions
what's a "year"?
know that luck favors the prepared. - SMP
who are you BP?
know that luck favors the prepared. - SMP
Wot?
Saints weren’t good at all at getting to the passer. Their secondary gave up a ton of yardage, too – 4th worst in the league at giving up yards. But their secondary somehow cropped up a billion interceptions the year they won the Super Bowl.
In 2010, they got much the same number of sacks, but nowhere near as many interceptions (where did Darren Sharper go? Oh yeah).
Sacks are just a loss of yardage, and a chance to hit the QB (although you get that even if you just hit him after he completes a pass under pressure). Shrug.
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by Comedic.Sans on May 12, 2011 4:38 AM EDT up reply actions
And the Pats didn't?
Last time I checked, it was pass-rush pressure that made Manning cough up that game-winning pick – Cunningham got a hand on Manning’s throwing arm and he short-armed the ball to a defender. But that doesn’t come up in sack stats, either.
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by Comedic.Sans on May 13, 2011 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Are you really asking
if the Patriots had a good pass rush LAST SEASON. If your a pats fan you should know the answer to that question.
14-2 record. League-lead in interceptions. You don't get interceptions if you're not pressuring the QB at least somewhat.
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Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit
by Comedic.Sans on May 13, 2011 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
the Patriots biggest problem is caring
they didn’t care at all in that loss
know that luck favors the prepared. - SMP
Are you just
looking at the stats or watching the games. Because if you watched the games and followed the team you would know the patriots do not have a good Pass Rush , regardless of what their interception stats. And those are more the patriots ability to play & disguise coverage. Yes on occasion (like the last Manning pick, they got some pressure on the QB. But more often than not they could not get good pressure on the QB.
the Manning pick
was pressure on the quarterback when it was needed the most
know that luck favors the prepared. - SMP
I suppose
the counter argument to that would be that they wouldn’t have needed such a play if they were generating regular pressure on the QB throughout the game.
tomato-potato
know that luck favors the prepared. - SMP
Are you high?
I saw Nink destroy Chad Henne. I saw Cunningham bat Manning to cause a game-winning pick. I saw the Lions QB being chased around the field by Kyle freaking Love and throwing multiple picks to McCourty. I saw the Pats put Favre in hospital.
What games were you watching?
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit
by Comedic.Sans on May 14, 2011 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The same games BP watches.
Non Sibi Sed Patriae ;I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life.
In Bill We Trust.
whoa whoa whoa
you MUST be high using the “are you high?”
I do that. Me. Not you.
know that luck favors the prepared. - SMP
Hahaha, it's rubbing off.
I will blame you, though.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit
by Comedic.Sans on May 15, 2011 4:42 AM EDT up reply actions
blame me?
nobody's ever done that before
know that luck favors the prepared. - SMP
I've recently been notified that you're to blame for erectile dysfunction.
Not me of course. :)
Miami Heat~ 2010/2011 NBA Champions!!!
Lewis Hamilton~ 2011 F1 Champion!!!
Life is about who makes it, not who makes it the fastest! Drive slow homie.
Thats all i needed to hear
Pass Rush isn’t a need to you apparently. So all the people who were shocked that BB didn’t draft a pass rusher until the 6th round didn’t watch the games. All the analysts, draft experts, Mel Kiper Jr himself, people that worked for the team, all the frustrated fans that called in to radio shows to ask WTF is going on, were just crazy. They just didn’t see these great pass rushers you’re talking about. All those mock drafts that people made a mock draft that had the patriots drafting a pass rusher somewhat early were just crazy too. Because pass rush isn’t a need. Kyle Love is our Richard Seymour right? Ninkovich is just as good Vrabel right? Sanchez is just that good of a QB, that’s why he can consistently shrewd this defense right? No wrong, wrong, wrong. BB isn’t a god. Just because he didn’t draft a top pass rusher doesn’t mean the Pass Rush is already there. Do blindly accept every move he makes without question. Pass Rush is still a need, he just didn’t address it.
Oh btw
Richard Hill must be crazy too because he’s not seeing the great pass rusher you’re seeing either.
http://www.patspulpit.com/2011/2/3/1971965/2011-nfl-draft-richard-hills-patriots-mock-draft
It was one of his top needs.
Do you remember last year's draft ?
Everyone wanted the Pats to take a Jared Odrick or a Sergio Kindle, and we took Devin Mccourty. How’d that work out ?
by UtopianAverage on May 15, 2011 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Ya
i also remember us taking Cunningham in the second round last year. And he was the one who got the pressure on Manning forcing him to throw the game winning pick. If we waited until the sixth round to get a pass rusher who would have got that pressure?
last year's draft had ALL of this year's talent
this draft sucked. Cam Newton going first overall kind of makes that obvious
know that luck favors the prepared. - SMP
Kindle... what a wasted pick
Keep the faith!
by Marima on May 15, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
should have added, "so far"
but I remember his name being on many mocks going to the Patriots and it’s just a reminder that ‘ya never know’.
Keep the faith!
Will he ever play football again?
Miami Heat~ 2010/2011 NBA Champions!!!
Lewis Hamilton~ 2011 F1 Champion!!!
Life is about who makes it, not who makes it the fastest! Drive slow homie.
I haven't seen Jermichael Finley play either
in 3 years he has less touchdown catches than Rob Gronkowski had last year. He also barely has more yards. Injuries aren’t a players fault usually, but Kindle is a walking piece of glass
know that luck favors the prepared. - SMP
And a drunk one at that.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit
by Comedic.Sans on May 16, 2011 5:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Hill isn't infallible
forgive me Hill for I have sinned
know that luck favors the prepared. - SMP
actually
Richard Hill also said that he wouldn’t be surprised if the pats didn’t take any OLB or DE in the top 4 rounds…and he was right.
Non Sibi Sed Patriae ;I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life.
In Bill We Trust.
Keep in mind that these same references also had the Pats drafting Mark Ingram in the 1st
round, not to mention at times a WR in the first 2 rounds as well.
All those mock drafts that people made a mock draft that had the patriots drafting a pass rusher somewhat early were just crazy too.
I agree that the pass rush is a problem, one that we may very well see when QB’s have all day to throw, but give the guys on the roster as well as the rookies the benefit of doubt.
Miami Heat~ 2010/2011 NBA Champions!!!
Lewis Hamilton~ 2011 F1 Champion!!!
Life is about who makes it, not who makes it the fastest! Drive slow homie.
by PatNation85 on May 15, 2011 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Im going to give
Cunningham a chance to improve over last year. But what CS what saying was ridiculous. Our pass rush last year was not good. I hope guys like Warren, Bodden, Dowling make enough of a difference for our Pass rsuh to finally get consistent pressure.
The pass rush was average last year.
36 sacks is a good total (11th in the league, I believe), so it’s not like they just weren’t pressuring at all. It’s when those pressures are there – the critical downs, like the end of the Colts game, vs GB, and… that’s about it (maybe they got to Flacco in OT). We used to be able to rely on someone getting there when they needed to (4 guys got hands on Eli, remember, it was only the BLATANT HOLDS that let him escape), and since 2007 we haven’t seen the clutch play-making ability. A bit more time developing the understanding of the entire D (so they don’t need to think about it), and Cunningham starts to get there a bit quicker, Pryor knows where the QB is going to slide to, and he’s there, and so on.
It’s not about the sack/pressure/hit numbers, it’s when the QB is sacked/pressured/hit. There were signs of the clutchness on D returning last year, there should be more this year.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
by insertscreenname on May 15, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed! The sack thing is overblown to be honest. I'd just prefer consistent pressure.
That’s what got to 5-head. Just more of that and we’ll be good. Of course a QB like Vick and in some ways Cassel (who are great/good with there feet), can elude the pressure. Thus making a sack more important in those cases.
Miami Heat~ 2010/2011 NBA Champions!!!
Lewis Hamilton~ 2011 F1 Champion!!!
Life is about who makes it, not who makes it the fastest! Drive slow homie.
a sack is best, of course (and yes, that *is* what she said).
But a sack on 1st down doesn’t really do much. A sack on 3rd down is far more important. I’d rather see consistent pressure all day, and then one or two sacks at a key stage, ie on the final drive, than 4 first quarter sacks and nothing after that.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
by insertscreenname on May 15, 2011 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Perv!
Miami Heat~ 2010/2011 NBA Champions!!!
Lewis Hamilton~ 2011 F1 Champion!!!
Life is about who makes it, not who makes it the fastest! Drive slow homie.
funny
we improved from sacks, and the number of players who had sacks from 2009 to 2010…and they were from either rookies, 2nd year players and 2nd year players in the Pats D.
Non Sibi Sed Patriae ;I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life.
In Bill We Trust.
PN85 making sense?
I never thought I’d see the say :P
know that luck favors the prepared. - SMP
PWL being a douche??
That's new
Miami Heat~ 2010/2011 NBA Champions!!!
Lewis Hamilton~ 2011 F1 Champion!!!
Life is about who makes it, not who makes it the fastest! Drive slow homie.
Damn i meant.....
PW4L
Miami Heat~ 2010/2011 NBA Champions!!!
Lewis Hamilton~ 2011 F1 Champion!!!
Life is about who makes it, not who makes it the fastest! Drive slow homie.
you cited Mel Kiper as a credible source
BANNED
know that luck favors the prepared. - SMP
All the analysts, draft experts, Mel Kiper Jr himself, people that worked for the team, all the frustrated fans that called in to radio shows to ask WTF is going on, were just crazy.
LOL. Mel Kiper.
Kiper graded the Ravens 2010 draft an A+ because they got a pass-rusher in Sergio Kindle and drafted Terrence Cody and a couple of pass-catching TEs when they supposedly needed TEs.
Kiper graded the Pats a C because they got a CB when they apparently didn’t need one, and didn’t draft an OLB that was a stud pass-rusher, and apparently took two TEs when they didn’t need any, according to Kiper.
Oh, Kiper regraded the 2010 draft lately. Pats got an A. Ravens got a C.
Ergo, Kiper’s an idiot.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit
by Comedic.Sans on May 16, 2011 5:07 AM EDT up reply actions
she's a nice lady!
know that luck favors the prepared. - SMP
Yeah
Kiper isn’t a draft predicting genius, especially when predicting the pats, but hey who really is. But did he really say the patriots didn’t need a TE when Ben Watson left? That’s inexcusable even though he has to look at million prospects and analyze how each team’s system along with know that team’s needs and draft tendencies. But still that’s a fail
Kiper sucks at everything
know that luck favors the prepared. - SMP
But did he really say the patriots didn’t need a TE when Ben Watson left?
No. He was exactly like you. “Why did they draft a CB/TE when they (supposedly) need an OLB!!!!”
Because the OLBs on the board sucked (Kindle) and the TEs on the board were great (Hernandez).
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit
by Comedic.Sans on May 17, 2011 6:38 AM EDT up reply actions
They drafted an OLB
in Cunningham early, so i had no qualms about that draft unlike Kiper, because we filled needs with tops players. ILB, OLB, and TE were all big needs and we addressed them with top talent. It’s almost like the opposite of the draft we just had.
1st round we filled a big need at Tackle with Solder (unlike last year’s where we just drafted the best player available at a position we liked) 2nd round we filled almost all our needs with top players which paid off big, unlike this draft were just kept on drafting players at positions we didn’t really need.
So yeah, I liked that draft alot. This one, not a big fan, but hey if those great pass rushers you see on this team can keep this Defense off the field on 3rd and 15 then I’ll be happy.
Kiper
doesn’t understand how the Patriots version of the 3-4 works. You can hear it especially when he starts to get into detail. That’s without going to his (and our) lack of knowledge as to how the young OLBs are developing.
For what the Patriots need, Vereen seems a better fit than Ingram.
…and so forth.
Another side of that
Belichick preaches that turnovers lose games. If you are looking for a turnover where are you going to find one? 6 or 7 patriots defenders dropping into coverage "found" more turnovers (interceptions) than any other team. The QB penalties make sacking a dangerous game. What the hell, upgrade your DB’s, make sure you have LB’s that can drop with the best of them, drop the extra guy and get the turnovers that will make the OTHER team lose the game….14-2….hmmmm.
…is when the opponent plays a ball-control game and continuously takes what is given to them. 3rd down conversions become easy, and turnovers may not happen at all. The general idea works well against most teams in most games though.
It still works against ball control teams, I think
because “what is given to them” grows smaller and smaller as they advance toward and into the Pats’ side of the field. There may be 7-10 yard chunks available around their own 35, but once they’re on the Pats’ 40 (which is a 53 yard FG attempt), the secondary is crunched into a much smaller space, and those easy chunks of yardage have suddenly vanished.
If the Pats can stop the run and clog the field with 4-5 very good DBs, it will be very, very hard for opposing teams to score TDs against them. A little development by Cunningham and Spikes, along with the return of Warren and contributions from Stroud would be helpful, as well. But it’s hard to argue with the general strategy.
I think it can
It still works against ball control teams, I think
But I also think that being low risk is part of what the Jets did in the playoff game. I mean, the Pats also blew their first two drives, which changed the complexion of the game, but the Patriots defense was basically predicated on waiting for a mistake rather than stopping teams (bend but don’t break), and the Jets didn’t allow them to take the ball and the game.
Jets also had ridiculous field position...
Bend but don’t break doesn’t work if you don’t have room to bend in. The fact is that most (ouch) of the Jets drives started on the 50 or inside Pats territory. It’s hard not to score when you start on the opposition’s 12 yard line… Yet somehow the Jets did exactly that.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit
by Comedic.Sans on May 12, 2011 4:43 AM EDT up reply actions
This is where O’Brien becomes crucial. His play calling MUST have a purpose. IMHO, every drive inside their 30 yard line should have one sole purpose. Get the freakin’ ball beyond the 30 yard line using conservative, short yardage type plays. If that requires two first downs, so be it. Call six conservative, smash-mouth football plays and short passes to move the chains outside the 30 yard line before there is any thouhgt of opening up the play calling.
Every drive, regardless of where it starts on the field, should begin with the full intention of getting 10 yards with three plays designed to get 4 yards each: double TE’s, slants, 4 yard out patterns. That keeps the defense off the field. It begins the process of getting some offensive momentum, and, most importantly, it takes control of the field position game. In some cases, it scores TD.
Any time Brady throws a pass beyond 5 yards without having gotten one first down is a poor play call. That is how the PATS forfeit field position.
by WinningisEverything on May 12, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I know.
It’s an over simplification, but I am pointing out the absurdity of a 1st down throw that’s 20 yards down field when they’re buried inside their 20. Those play calls are far too low on the success scale. I would MUCH rather seed a 4 yard gain. 2nd and 6 opens up many more options as does 3rd and 2 or 3 if they purposely plan to gain 7 or 8 yards on 1st and 2nd combined. I just think moving the chains is a critcal piece to winning in the NFL. Field position in a game is huge! It affects all the play calling on both sides of the ball.
by WinningisEverything on May 12, 2011 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions
That's not really on playcalling...
The playcall just tells 5 guys where to go on any particular passing play. It’s Brady who finally picks which one is being thrown to – so if Brady heaves a pass downfield when there’s an open underneath guy (and that happened a few times in the playoff game), that’s a poor decision by Brady, not O’Brien. Even if Brady connects with the pass, it’s still (probably) a poor decision, depending on down-and-distance and game situation.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit
by Comedic.Sans on May 13, 2011 3:55 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree that Brayd is atg fault for making the choice. That said, the play, itself, is faulty for taking so much time to develop. I am asking for quick 2 second pass routes and pounding run plays on 1st and 2nd down when they start inside their 30 yard line.
I am making a pitch to win field position as the top priority in the NFL. You do that by smart play calling inside your own 30. You don’t give Brady a 20 yard option. You don’t give the other team a possible sack or a 2nd an 10. You create positive yardage on 1st down (% wise) by calling for pounding runs and 2 second patterns. You target 3 yards as the goal. 2nd and 7, you do the same if you are still inside your 30. That gives you 3rd and 4. Now, you have a chance for a 1st down with a run. THAT makes the defense play much differently versus a predictable pass play.
You look at most of the PAT’s 3 and out series, and I bet the first or second down was a longer pass pattern. Bad call. Period. Every series should be designed to create a favorable 3rd down play call: meaning it can be a run or pass. That’s how you move the chains. 1st down should always be about getting 3 yards: pass or run. Make it a positive yardage down every time, and you will be in far better shape.
by WinningisEverything on May 15, 2011 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Most of the awful three-and-outs were execution, from what I saw.
Branch dropping passes on first-down, or a missed block on second down leading to a stuff. Yuck.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit
by Comedic.Sans on May 16, 2011 5:09 AM EDT up reply actions
The Jets were
That said, the play, itself, is faulty for taking so much time to develop.
looking for the short underneath stuff, and put people in tight to take those away. Because they could drop 8 and still get pressure, they also had the ability to cover later as well.
Ras-I is the kind of corner that you can line up against Braylon Edwards or Brandon Marshall. He can have success against those guys. If he does, then that means that you can put McCourty against the slot man and have success there to. It bears repeating that the Patriots had one solid corner last season. One! Darius Butler and Jonathan Wilhite(uugg!) struggled in coverage last season. Arrington was solid for most of the season, but he played with one arm after that Packers’ game. This was an area that needed addressing. And Ras-I has position flexibility too.
You expect Ras Al Ghul to play as the #1 CB?
Lewis Hamilton~ 2011 F1 Champion!!!
Don't cut your locks Tom Terrific!
Life is about who makes it, not who makes it the fastest! Drive slow homie.
Idk if #1 CB is really an applicable term
McCourty was our #1 last year and didn’t always match up with the opponents best receiver. I think it makes sense that our biggest CB would draw the coverage assignment on their biggest WR.
As an aside, how nice is it now actually having quality depth at CB compared to like 2008 when we had Deltha O’Neal and Ellis Hobbs as the starters? Thank god BB went on this DB drafting/investment kick…
Deep in enemy territory
I think Bodden is the smallest of the top 3 (The Bod, McC, and Al Ghul). Upon first thought i would've liked to put
him in that slot position but i don’t know if he has that fluidity in him, especially at the age of 30 and post surgery. Al Ghul is said to be more of an outside corner, so we’ll see. I would just prefer not to disrupt McC’s progression by moving him around too much. But BB knows best.
Lewis Hamilton~ 2011 F1 Champion!!!
Don't cut your locks Tom Terrific!
Life is about who makes it, not who makes it the fastest! Drive slow homie.
Bodden is either 6’1 or 6’0. I think the former. No I do not think that Ras will play against the top wide out. I’m just saying that his size dictates him playing against such players. McCourty is fluid enough to play in the slot. But it is up to Bill.
Heheheheh, Ras Al Ghul. Great! Maybe our secondary will BE the League of Assassins.
THE EXECUTIONER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
know that luck favors the prepared. - SMP
by far the best nickname we have for any of them
know that luck favors the prepared. - SMP
McC is the "Executioner" but or entire secondary can be known as the the "League of Assassins"
Lewis Hamilton~ 2011 F1 Champion!!!
Don't cut your locks Tom Terrific!
Life is about who makes it, not who makes it the fastest! Drive slow homie.
by PatNation85 on May 11, 2011 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions
or our
Lewis Hamilton~ 2011 F1 Champion!!!
Don't cut your locks Tom Terrific!
Life is about who makes it, not who makes it the fastest! Drive slow homie.
by PatNation85 on May 11, 2011 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Does that make James Sanders Sean Connery?
Wrong League.
Does that make James Sanders Dr. Fate? Oops….
Does that make James Sanders Swain? Darn it….
Does that make James Sanders Robert Cecil? I’ll get it in a minute.. hold on..
If knowledge is power and power corrupts...
As far as Arrington paired up with McCourty, in terms of pass defense, they were the worst CB pair in the NFL especially in first half of season. this is why pats defense suffered so much. The McCourty, Arrington and Wilhite trio were competing with houston texans as worst pass defense.
Butler struggled for first two games and played decent last half and helped stabilize Pats defense. Wilhite’s injury which was a blessing in disguise for patriots.
The drafting of Dowling should give the Patriots three bonafide starters and maybe allow for one to get injured. One of Butler’s strength is that he can stick to people like glue so should be good enough to play slot and cover the smaller receivers.
Chung stunk at playing slot CB. For Chung to become complete player like a Woodson, he would need to improve that. I think Chung’s play was effected by injury during very early part of season so maybe hard to assess his play. Wilhite could still survive if enough players get IR’ed.
I was very glad they drafted Dowling just for that added depth for protection against injuries along with allowing him to be groomed as a replacement for Bodden in the future. His presence will push all the CB’s to become better.
The Houston Texan secondary weeps.
Non Sibi Sed Patriae ;I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life.
In Bill We Trust.
Wooden is a CB not a SS/FS. Chung is a SS who was stuck playing team's 3rd WR
Non Sibi Sed Patriae ;I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life.
In Bill We Trust.
Woodson was playing a sort-of slot CB/extra safety role this year.
Takes advantage of his complete game, and allows him to blitz, as opposed to the “strictly cover” Revis.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
by insertscreenname on May 12, 2011 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions
y him and not wilhite? Butler had more int's in his rookie season than wilhite has had in his 3 or 4 year career.
Lewis Hamilton~ 2011 F1 Champion!!!
Don't cut your locks Tom Terrific!
Life is about who makes it, not who makes it the fastest! Drive slow homie.
WHATTTTT?????
He is our 2nd round pick from 2 years ago. The only person who deserves to get cut is Jonathan Wilhite, the remaining twin from the Wonder twins pack of 2008.
Non Sibi Sed Patriae ;I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life.
In Bill We Trust.
I really want to give guys 3 years
so I think Butler should get another chance this year. but I can’t tell what is going on with the team but that’s fine with me
know that luck favors the prepared. - SMP
Let the guy play a few live downs in the nfl before we name him starter worthy please.
I know we like to talk up these draft picks like they are established pros, but they aren’t. For every McCourty there is a Chad Jackson. He looks athletic and solid but so didn’t Darius Butler and he quickly lost his starting position last year.
We won't get any 'realistically' until at least Training Camp
- or Pre-season action. All we’ve got to go on is college performance and speculation.
Keep the faith!
which is why we are speculating. ;)
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
I guess I have my doubts
That “Rasy” will be able to break through the trio of McCourty, Bodden, and Butler short of an injury to one of the three. Bodden is a pretty solid #2 outside corner and Butler really came on at the end of the year as a slot cover guy.
Combo that trio with the likely shortened preseason and badabing badaboom…
Thing about dowling
Is even with lockout shortened training camp he can be a player cause he played in this defense for 3 years. Al grog said most of the defense and almost all terminology is the same.
by brady12mvp3 on May 12, 2011 9:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Rasy would likely play #2 corner if he is healthy in training camp.
Bodden will likely play slot, because i think he is a smaller CB than Ras (dont want tall CBs in the slot….).
There is also a possibility that he takes Meriweather’s spot, if the Org. is thinking of trading him.
Im expecting Ras to outperform bodden in the pre-season, so I think he’ll be a starter come WK 1.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
It's Al Ghul Jack, get it str8! :)
Lewis Hamilton~ 2011 F1 Champion!!!
Don't cut your locks Tom Terrific!
Life is about who makes it, not who makes it the fastest! Drive slow homie.
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