Patriots Release Seven Including Ty Warren, Alge Crumpler, and Nick Kaczur
by Greg Knopping on Jul 29, 2011 3:23 PM EDT
in New England Patriots News
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PrintThis afternoon, the Patriots released six players including veteran defensive lineman Ty Warren, tight end Alge Crumpler, tackle Nick Kaczur, rookie outside linebacker Ryan Coulson, defensive lineman Marcus Stroud, outside linebacker Tully Banta-Cain, and cornerback Tony Carter.
The releases of Marcus Stroud, Tully Banta-Cain, and Tony Carter had all been previously reported. Rookie Ryan Coulson was a long shot to make the roster. Nick Kaczur, as we discussed yesterday, was a likely casualty considering that Matt Light is expected to re-sign with the team soon.
The obvious surprises here are tight end Alge Crumpler and defensive lineman Ty Warren. Warren is clearly the biggest surprise.
Alge Crumpler was due $2.4 million in 2011. According to PatsCap.com, releasing him will save the team nearly $2 million. Crumpler is a very good blocking tight end. However, the team recently brought in Lee Smith through the draft, whose greatest strength is also his blocking. I think there's a chance Crumpler could be back at a lower price, as he is a respected leader who commanded the respect of the locker room.
As I said, the release of Ty Warren is a huge surprise. The biggest reason, the salary cap implications. Warren was due just a $3.1 million base salary this year. Because of his prorated signing bonus allocation, he was due just under $6 million. While this is a high number, consider the fact that releasing Warren will save the team just over $200,000 on the salary cap (according to PatsCap.com), which is absolutely nothing. (Update: Not sure on the whole "dead money" rules, so I'll let you know when I figure that out
Yes, Warren entered camp on the Active/PUP list. He probably wasn't fully healthy. However, keeping him on the PUP list meant that he wouldn't count against the roster limits. The fact that the Patriots have outright released him and aren't gaining any salary cap space means that the team is essentially completely severing ties with him. He won't be returning at a lower price. Considering that the recently acquired Albert Haynesworth is a huge question mark, the Patriots now find themselves thin along the defensive line. Ron Brace is likely your new starter at left end, but there are serious questions about depth at that position, as well as the entire right defensive end spot.
In case you couldn't tell, I'm not a fan of the Warren move. We'll see where this goes.
The Patriots also announced that rookies Ryan Mallett and Marcus Cannon had officially signed with the team.
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According to Warren himself
the team is changing their defensive scheme. So I voted “yes”. But I know I shouldn’t believe everything I read on twitter lol
Deep in enemy territory
Not a fan of this decision
I don’t get it. Either there is something about the cap stuff that we don’t know or they are going to a 2-5…lol
by dienasty on Jul 29, 2011 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm surprised
so it begs the questions of the extent of the injury that put him on PUP, and what was his overall conditioning and mindset? Just maybe that year away of football got him thinking of other things? I don’t know, just speculating here.
Keep the faith!
Warren's release might mean there is another transaction on the horizon.
Outside of Wilfork, every single player left at DL has one of more major question marks. I don’t think BB would let go of Stroud AND Warren if he didn’t have something planned.
Or maybe this shift in defensive scheme is far more profound (and unusual) than anyone realizes. A base 1-5-5?
That could work, if Wilfork and Haynesworth combined to create some super lineman
I can’t remember who said it, so forgive me for not quoting, but they’ll become Vincebert Haynesfork: a 750 pound behemoth.
It matters not how strait the gate, nor charged with punishments the scroll:
I am the Master of my fate. I am the Captain of my soul.
by BigRussNovak on Jul 29, 2011 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
I saw no harm in stashing Warren on the PUP. And the Crumpler move is a little discouraging. I really hope he can be brought back.
This is sort of a comedown from yesterday, hopefully it will work out though.
Say what you want about America, thirteen bucks still gets you a hell of a lot of mice!
It is a comedown - a little bit
I don’t understand Ty Warren’s release. If anyone knows more details, please explain.
LaConfora said that it's a possibility
BB swings it for a Third rounder this year and a fourth next year…. haha
Contributor To Over The Monster, SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site.
by Jared Stegall on Jul 29, 2011 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
He apparantly failed his conditioning test
Contributor To Over The Monster, SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site.
Same thign happened to Brace last year
Though we did have a bit longer for training camp.
I’m still baffled by why we release him
Something's coming
Whether it’s Osi or Cullen Jenkins…
Contributor To Over The Monster, SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site.
by Jared Stegall on Jul 29, 2011 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Pretty sure Jenkins is with the Skins.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
There was a lot of talk but the deal didn't go through.
He is still available and looks like the cowboys want him.
Brace had the luxury of a bit more time
and Warren was veteran-enough to know better. He had a year off to heal from surgery and get into football shape and it surprised me to see him not ready to go physically, despite his words that this was the best he’s ever felt at the start of training camp.
Keep the faith!
I guess Brace would have to be ready to go.... but I am not very confident in him yet.
unless we magically move to 4-3, who do you see as the LE?
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
assuming we dont restructure his contract
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
I'm not that surprised about the Crumpler decision
Between the WRs and RBs the team is pretty deep at each with young players and projects. With Lee Smith not likely to make it to the practice squad, BB was probably just giving Crumpler the courtesy of releasing him now instead of later in the preseason. It’s entirely plausible making it to the 54 man roster with 4 TEs just wasn’t plausible.
Lee Smith is basically a younger Crumpler at this point...
Blocking Tight end is all we need with Hernandez and Gronk here…
Contributor To Over The Monster, SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site.
by Jared Stegall on Jul 29, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Butterfingers....
Besides, Crumpler almost single-handedly cost us a place in the Conference Finals last year.
he was great for us though.
everyone makes mistakes. that one was a big one but still….
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
Beastly Blocker
He beasted fools when blocking last year, especially when he was in motion. Made it possible for Woodhead and BJGE to run effectively. All blocking isn’t equal…. I hope they resign him for less… Could be too old though
Remember when
he block some dude to the ground so fast, the ref called a holding penalty on him just because it didn’t seem possible…
and don't count out that undrafted player Will Yeatman either
He’s a big boy that looks (so far) like he’ll be a competitor. Hard to make that call yet though without seeing these guys in pads.
Keep the faith!
in bill i trust
but i dont like the ty warren cut as of right now but maybe he has someone else in mind.
this is so baffling... unless we end up getting julius pepper or something with the cap space
"Red, Blue and White Ignite"
"Orange and Blue, A Gator Too"
I am also reading that, according to warren, defense is going "a different direction, pleasure playing for them, had a great time with pats"
I would say we are switching to a different base, but belicheck loves the 3-4. Any chance we are changing the kind of 3-4?
Where are these quotes coming from, though?
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit
by Comedic.Sans on Jul 29, 2011 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions
He tweeted a statement to Karen Guregian of the Boston Herald
"I appreciate the Pats through the years," Warren told the Herald. "They’re doing some things defensively and choose to go in a different direction. I thank the Krafts for the opportunity and drafting me in 2003. It was a pleasure. I will be moving on to bigger and better things. We are sorting out and will look forward to wearing a contending NFL team jersey this fall."
Warren did fail his conditioning test, as the Star-Telegram reported, but Warren said it was because of his hamstring.
He added that "there’s people who failed running tests and who have stuck around." He just believes the Patriots were looking to go in a different direction, based on the recent moves, and "I wasn’t in their plans."
Keep the faith!
That sounds like usual 'I got cut' language
It’s not that he sucks, it’s that they’re doing something different. Etc.
Does sound final, though. Perhaps not a salary-cap rejig. Hmm.
Doesn’t scream that they’re move out of the 3-4, though. They don’t have 4-3 LBs, and they don’t have proven 4-3 DEs, either.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit
by Comedic.Sans on Jul 29, 2011 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I now understand what you were asking
not about where the quotes were coming from, literally. Sounds like it was speculation on Warren’s part just based on the pick-up of Hayensworth and justification of him getting cut, nothing more. I can see how it might have been taken out of context now too. It doesn’t take much to start a rabbit trail nowadays.
Keep the faith!
Well, partly where the quotes were coming from
“I’ve heard that x is happening” I’ve seen about 2343493 times in the last three days.
So many “some guy told me Asomugha’s going to Dallas! Oakland! Jets!” stories, bleh.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit
by Comedic.Sans on Jul 29, 2011 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Somebody (I forget who - sorry) mentioned Haynesworth could play a Haloti Ngata role
Could we be shifting to a Baltimore-style hybrid D? Not just mixing up looks, but shifting between 3-4 and 4-3 on any given play on throughout a series without changing personnel? It would make sense, as it would be more aggressive and Ty Warren wouldn’t have fit that role as well.
Deep in enemy territory
No, not the same way
We play around with it, but more often than not we pick an alignment and stick to it for given down & distance situations/passing v. running personnel.
Deep in enemy territory
TBC!?!?
guess he telling haynesworth “we cut these ppl cuz we believe in you, now don’t screw up”
I heard he was holding out - another trade?
but I haven’t read any of these rumors myself. Could anyone link to them?
Deep in enemy territory
Surprised by the Warren move
especially since they’ll be saving only 200K. But i’m happy Mallett and Cannon were signed. Hopefully both can be solid contributors (more Cannon than Mallett, though)
Even if he failed the conditioning test
He would have provided depth and they did not save any $. It doesn’t make sense.
Health question?
Older guys come and go, so I don’t see anything noteworthy in the Crumpler release. It just seems larger because so many things are happening i so little time.
Releasing Ty Warren, on the other hand, is a major surprise. He was the most accomplished 3-4 end on the roster and seemed a lock for a team switching between formations.
As stated above this could be a sign that the Patriots are planning on playing even more 4-3 this year. But the reason could also be much more simple: Warren was simply not healthy and the medical staff had no reason to believe he would be able to contribute substantially this year. Still seems strange, though.
Bill knows more about the situation that we do
I imagine this will make sense soon, whether it’s schematic, health, another player, w/e.
I do trust Bill Belichick...
… it just sometimes gives me heartburn to do so.
"Laser show. So relax."
Francona is to McDonald and Jenks as Infant is to Plastic Bags and Matches
by nuthinboutnuthin on Jul 29, 2011 4:17 PM EDT reply actions
gotta figure Warren's injury has something do with this?
wouldn’t they trade him? I always felt he was a well above average player.
Does anyone on the blog have a good read on the pats current cap situation?
How much do we have left to spend, after the two trades? How much should we expect to come off for Matty Light? How far are we from the 90-man roster limit?
patscap.com
it doesn’t have the ocho deal yet not reflect these transactions
I think we’re at ~112million
by TFBismywingman on Jul 29, 2011 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I think they still have ty warren and others listed in that, right?
by beantownboy171 on Jul 29, 2011 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
as follows
Ty warren – savings 203k
Kazcur – 3.095mil
Cumpler – 1.995mil
Stroud – 750k
by TFBismywingman on Jul 29, 2011 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Nnamdi money???
Basically thats 6mil plus the 8 under cap
granted not all rookies signed yet
by TFBismywingman on Jul 29, 2011 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Possibly, but unlikely.
Lol if we get Nnamdi and the Jets get Butler when he’s released
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
i dont think we'll get nnamdi at all. lol
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
why not TRADE him?
dont understand it myself. couldve had at least a 3rd, 4th rounder for him….
"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
by remembering9ergods on Jul 29, 2011 4:28 PM EDT reply actions
I have to assume they tried and couldn't.
Failed conditioning + surgery is usually a bad sign.
Over the Monster -- SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Jul 29, 2011 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Broken hip
is no daisy field. Colvin was never really the same when he broke his hip… You lose some fluidity I’d imagine
definately not easy recovery
especially for big boy such as Ty
by TFBismywingman on Jul 29, 2011 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
NFL Network so misinformed
They’re sayin pats will have trouble if jets get Nnamdi
somehow he and revis can cover they entire offense
Who was it?
Dukes and someone?
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
yeah it was Dukes
They have been drooling over the Jets getting Nnamdi all day
apparently B. Scott and LT restructured contracts
It would be so funny if those guys take a hit and the JETS can’t seal the deal
by TFBismywingman on Jul 29, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Tweet from Calvin Watkins
“Jerry jones just chatted with rob Ryan and now the owner is on the phone.”
More likely the Spearmint Rhino
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
Given how long this is taking, I wouldn't be surprised if Nnamdi is playing them like a fiddle to get leverage for a better deal elsewhere
I would laugh so hard if that’s the way it went down
Shawn Camp earned my dog several beatings back in 2007
by wtbudlight on Aug 30, 2010 5:54 PM PDT
How pissed would the jets locker rm be
if they do all this bs and get nothing
I will LMFAO
by TFBismywingman on Jul 29, 2011 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Rumor
that Nnamdi has agreed to a 4 yr 73 M (39 M guaranteed) deal with the Cowboys – trying to confirm it
Hah, I hope that's true
The ‘boys will be set for a while with that…I don’t think anybody will want to pass against a combo of Nnamdi and Jenkins
Shawn Camp earned my dog several beatings back in 2007
by wtbudlight on Aug 30, 2010 5:54 PM PDT
PleasePleasePlease PleasePleasePlease PleasePleasePlease PleasePleasePlease PleasePleasePlease PleasePleasePlease PleasePleasePlease PleasePleasePlease PleasePleasePlease PleasePleasePlease
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
Well
I wouldn’t say it would make things easy, so in that sense we have trouble. If we don’t recognize the headaches this will mean for our offensive gameplan we’re being one-eyed.
If they said it was over and done, that’s completely wrong on the other hand.
I'm not a fan of releasing a player when there's so little to gain
Might as well have kept him on the PUP until he was ready to come back if 200K is all this will save.
I have to imagine there’s another trade in the works here. Osi’s a possibility, but I wouldn’t take him if he’s asking for too much money. Who else might be a target?
As for Crumpler, I’m not surprised he was cut, but I’d like to see him brought back at a discount. He’s old, but he’s still very good at what he does, even if there are younger guys ready to step in for him.
Shawn Camp earned my dog several beatings back in 2007
by wtbudlight on Aug 30, 2010 5:54 PM PDT
dont know who has been signed and who hasnt..
http://www.footballsfuture.com/2011/fa/dl.html
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
Babin, Johnson and Edwards have all been scooped up.
Kiwanuka and Jenkins are still available i believe.
by beantownboy171 on Jul 29, 2011 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
kiwi has been signed by the giants
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
cullen jenkins might be leaving it seems. he is not signed.
and ellis is available.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
I think Cullen Jenkins would be a good fit.
Am I alone in this sentiment?
It matters not how strait the gate, nor charged with punishments the scroll:
I am the Master of my fate. I am the Captain of my soul.
by BigRussNovak on Jul 29, 2011 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
nope.
also, pat williams is a free agent. sign him for LE for a year? lol
Albert, Wilfork, Pat.
XD
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
8 pound, 6 ounce, newborn baby Jesus...
that would be the largest three man line ever. It would be reminiscent of my time last month spent with a Dusseldorf oompah band, where at 18 years old, 6’2, 255, I was by far the smallest there. lmao.
It matters not how strait the gate, nor charged with punishments the scroll:
I am the Master of my fate. I am the Captain of my soul.
by BigRussNovak on Jul 29, 2011 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Sanchez would be looking at the line
And Obi-wan would say, “That’s no moon… It’s three.”
by Chari on Jul 29, 2011 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
BTW, very cool signature.
I love that poem.
by vettel on Jul 29, 2011 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ellis can probably be had on the cheap. He's getting up there in years, isn't he?
But Jenkins would be preferable IMO
Shawn Camp earned my dog several beatings back in 2007
by wtbudlight on Aug 30, 2010 5:54 PM PDT
same here.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
Ty Warren wanted to return home to play for the Cowboys or Texans
According to Charean Williams of the Star Telegram.
Keep the faith!
Ah, so it was a favor to him as much as anything else
It’s a little more acceptable now.
Shawn Camp earned my dog several beatings back in 2007
by wtbudlight on Aug 30, 2010 5:54 PM PDT
Eh
A source said Warren, a Bryan High and Texas A&M product, is interested in returning home to play for either the Cowboys or the Texans.
A ‘source’? Some dude on twitter.
#WarrenComingHome!
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit
by Comedic.Sans on Jul 29, 2011 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions
So word is we're switching defenses.
Can anyone tell, based on the UDFA we signed, what that might entail? I don’t know much about the players, but that might be a good indicator.
5-2-4? I dont know.... but it can be possible.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
Well.... we dont need 5 DL. lol
the outside guys can be cuningham and moore.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
Source?
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit
by Comedic.Sans on Jul 29, 2011 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Ty Warren has been quoted a few times saying we're going in a different direction with the D.
by beantownboy171 on Jul 29, 2011 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Personnel or scheme-wise?
Usually it’s the former, when a guy gets cut. Remember, the Pats haven’t had any practices or team-meetings – hell, they haven’t been allowed to – so it’s highly, highly unlikely that:
a) Hoodie has installed a new scheme on the fly with no training-camp or practices; and
b) that in the… two days? that football has been back, Warren has learned all about a new scheme and has learned he’s not to be a part of it. All white being injured, too? Eh.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit
by Comedic.Sans on Jul 29, 2011 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Different direction
Ty Warren has been quoted a few times saying we’re going in a different direction with the D.
Forward? Across the Line of Scrimmage? It’s been a while since they’ve reliably done that. :)
"I'm not fired! I quit! and we were going different directions anyway!"
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit
by Comedic.Sans on Jul 30, 2011 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions
How about this source
This odd statement-of-fact comment is from BBS at Stampede Blue:
The Patriots
Are switching to a 4-3 this year and run a lot of Cover-2.
Keep the faith!
LOLWUT
Belichick’s only been allowed to talk to the players for 2 days. Think he’s going to make things difficult by changing the entire scheme on the fly? Eh.
He’s reaching.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit
by Comedic.Sans on Jul 29, 2011 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions
If you read the context,
It’s more to frighten the Colts fans about their team sitting there with their thumbs up their asses.
I just responded quizzically (I thought, anyway).
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
I saw that.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit
by Comedic.Sans on Jul 29, 2011 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Mine was a tongue in cheek response.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Jul 29, 2011 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Btw, can i just mention.
How awesome it is to have NFL free agency and MLB trade deadline going on simultaneously…
by beantownboy171 on Jul 29, 2011 4:43 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Seriously, they should have a lockout EVERY year just for this
Wait…what?
Shawn Camp earned my dog several beatings back in 2007
by wtbudlight on Aug 30, 2010 5:54 PM PDT
This one week FA period is awesome
And I just happen to be on vacation all week
by TFBismywingman on Jul 29, 2011 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I wasn't upset about Moss leaving so much as I was mad that the compensation was so low
But as it happened, the draft pick was probably worth more than Moss was.
I trust this organization not to shoot itself in the foot. When something out of the blue happens like this, I have to assume there’s a plan in the works
Shawn Camp earned my dog several beatings back in 2007
by wtbudlight on Aug 30, 2010 5:54 PM PDT
This bastard Belichick has probably cost me 20 hours of sleep over the last 48.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
Just think, he's probably had 2 hours of sleep over the last 48
It matters not how strait the gate, nor charged with punishments the scroll:
I am the Master of my fate. I am the Captain of my soul.
by BigRussNovak on Jul 29, 2011 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
He's getting 8 mil to do it though,
Not having to go to lectures and practicals
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
Is the cap hit deferred to 2012?
I heard that from someone. If true the release makes sense if they are going for some expensive guys.
new defensive scheme?
I don’t think that Ty meant that the defense was going to be a 4-3 or 3-4/4-3 hybrid, that’s too harsh of a transition, and specially coming from a 3-4 coach. What I think Belichick might be doing is something I’ve been waiting years to happen: a one gap attacking 3-4. The Steelers and Packers are one gap attacking 3-4s, for example. That means each player is responsable for one gap, and they are more allowed to rush into the gap and disrupt the play. The “old” Patriots D was a two gap read-and-react 3-4 and, while it had success when Ty Law was allowed to kill Marvin Harrison, I think the newer PI calls and focus on high scoring games has made it old fashioned, making the attacking D more fit for this NFL. Ds now have to attack the quarterback and rush him into bad decisions, not wait for the play to develop. Also, while a high talented two gap 3-4 is a great defense (early 2000s, anyone?), finding players that fit perfectly into it is a hard task. Having two Seymours and a Wilfork (or three Wilforks, for that matter) holding the gaps and letting two Mayos/Bruschis holding the middle with two Vrabels setting the edge would be ideal, but those players are hard to find. The one gap 3-4 is easier to build, and I think Ty’s release is a sign we’re gonna see more one gapping and less two gapping this year. I mean, Ty is a sturdy two gap defender, while Fat Albert is a one gap shooting monster. Thing is: in a one gap 3-4, Fat Albert is a fit, Ty isn’t. In a two gap 3-4, Ty is a fit, Fat Albert isn’t. I hope Belichick is going to a one gap 3-4 then. It’s just me speculating, but still… Oh, first post, by the way, I’ve read the Pulpit for years but never posted anything. Happy to be here, hope to contribute with my comments (:
by charlie52 on Jul 29, 2011 5:13 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
That is what I think too
As in they are transitioning to a new kind of 3-4. Whether it is the one gap 3-4 remains to be seen, however. I think that is as likely as anything, but I have also hear the possibility of going to a Ravens like defense that can switch between 3-4 and 4-3 with the same personel. I don’t know if this is true, but it is something to think about.
I think a hybrid D is a possibility, but I wouldn’t like to see it happening. The Ravens have success in their hybrid because they’ve got Suggs to play standing 3-4 OLB and rush the passer out of the 4-3 DE spot. The Patriots don’t have a dominant edge rusher, so I think an hybrid would actually slow the team down.
by charlie52 on Jul 29, 2011 5:23 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
That's an epic post from a mobile.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
indeed. lol
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
hahah I’m a very fast mobile typper (:
by charlie52 on Jul 29, 2011 5:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
"going in a different direction"
Just means you’re fired (I’ve spent time in HR). Don’t read anything into it beyond releasing a highly paid, slightly injured player.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
Word from the Star-Telegram
is that Warren wants to play in his home state of Texas, either for the Cowboys or Texans. I’ve also heard that his hip was fine and medically cleared, but Warren did not pass either his physical or conditioning test.
Keep the faith!
Houston, I guess, will throw the house at him.
They need some kind of 3-4 DE.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
Dear Bill
If you don’t win a Superbowl this year, we get to call you lots of names
cheers,
Quadruple option (still willing to teach you the QO for when you play Mevis and A$omugha)
by quadruple option on Jul 29, 2011 5:21 PM EDT reply actions
Jets sign Aso.... DAMN!!!
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
nvr mind.
heard it wrong…
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
I heard "...signed with the jets"
and assumed it was Aso. people around me were talking loudly so I couldnt hear the name.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
Albert Breer twittering
Filed to NFLN: Per a league source, the Jets, for now, are out of the Nnamdi Asomugha sweepstakes.
Who else is there?
Dallas? Not much of a sweepstakes.
Say what you want about America, thirteen bucks still gets you a hell of a lot of mice!
Ha
Could you imagine the reaction of the Jets fans?
That made my day.
Say what you want about America, thirteen bucks still gets you a hell of a lot of mice!
Worth the cap hell just to say F you to the Jets fans
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
They better sign
Ellis, Jenkins, or G. Warren otherwise I’m not happy about this at all. Crumpler I think is coming back at a discount, I hope at least.
I'm really surprised by the Warren release.
Yesterday if you had asked me, I’d have said he was the most talented 3-4 DE on the roster.
We’ll see what happens though. This is an incomplete picture right now. Just a confusing one. Hopefully when the rest of it is visible, it will make sense.
I'm not sure where all this speculation is about 'change of scheme', etc
Can people state sources instead of just “I heard x”.
Otherwise Pats Pulpit just becomes Twitter, ew.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit
I think it has to do with two things.
1. Ty Warren saying we want to go in “a different direction” with our defense.
2. The trade for Albert Haynesworth.
by beantownboy171 on Jul 29, 2011 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions
That's how I came up with the idea
But his comment could also could be a way for him to save face after being cut right on the heels of failing his conditioning run and physical.
Keep the faith!
The Patriots weren't a pure 3-4 team anyway
The switched it up frequently so i don’t really know what the big deal is.
Keep the faith!
This goes along with the whole 'change of scheme' thing
From Mike Reiss: http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/6817812/do-new-england-patriots-defensive-line-moves-signal-shift
Just trying to keep up.
Speculation from all parties.
I’ll wait for week 1 for confirmation of the defensive scheme.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
It seems ludicrous to assume Belichick would ever lock the team into ANYTHING, scheme-wise.
They’ve always been creative with packages and schemes and personnel. 4-3, 3-4, putting Arrington at DE, the UFO, one-, two-, three-, four- and five- down linemen, etc.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit
by Comedic.Sans on Jul 30, 2011 8:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Richard Seymour
Traded away a healthy All Pro Richard Seymour 3 years ago was a bigger surprise than releasing Ty Warren now. Ty’s injury was an issue, IMO.
Yeah, I agree. It’s not like he contributed last year. And I’d much rather have a cheaper and younger blocking TE in Lee, as strong a locker room presence as Crumpler was. Also, they do have to respect the roster limitations, eh! Packing 5 RBs and 3 QBs is gonna hurt the other positions, but it’s the right choice I believe.
by charlie52 on Jul 30, 2011 2:24 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
No way they will have 5 RBs.
So Vereen, Ridley, Woodhead, BGJE or someone else
Faulk and Morris can be off roster backups. I am surprised they signed Morris given his injury history. RBs get injured a lot so
Carrying 3 QBs will be the biggest onus. Hoyer will either be traded or leave by next year unless Brady gets injured.
They've had 5 RBs the last 4 or 5 years, as far as I can remember.
Morris might not make it through training camp, but he’ll teach Vereen and Ridley a thing or two (particularly Ridley).
I see no problem with carrying three QBs. The Pats are a rarity for not carrying three regularly, and with the removal of the third-QB rule, they’ve actually got more reason to.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit
by Comedic.Sans on Jul 30, 2011 6:18 AM EDT up reply actions
QB's
I’d keep two QB’s and designate Edelman as the third. Let’s face it. Once Brady goes down, thoughts of a Super Bowl are slim. If the 2nd QB goes down, who cares what guy plays QB. Hence, using a roster spot for a 3rd QB is a huge waste! Edelman can serve that role.
I’d rather get Crumpler back and have four TE’s, or keep 5 RB’s. Those are options that could lead to a Super Bowl.
Not really a 'huge waste'
Keeping three QBs on the roster means you have two extra QBs somewhere down the line to flip off for trade picks.
Cassel was once a third-round pick, and only a few years later they flipped him for a second-rounder (and could’ve got a first for him, in a good year).
They’re a long-term investment. And remember, Brady was a 4th QB once upon a time.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit
by Comedic.Sans on Jul 30, 2011 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions
QB
True. However, Cassel was certainly an exception to the rule. It seems that guys like McNab are still favored over back-ups.
I still feel that the PATS approach each season with one goal: win the Super Bowl. BB certainly plans well ahead with his draft pick stock piling approach. However, to keep a 3rd QB for later draft pick acquisitions seems counter to the “win now” mindset.
I still favor a 4th TE or a 5th RB over a 3rd QB simply because Edelman could fill this role (albeit poorly). But, I still contend that it is irrelevent once the 3rd QB is required.
BB has plenty of success stock piling picks w/o a 3rd QB.
Pats write their own rules, QB-wise
Brady was a 4th QB in his first training camp, worked his way up to #2, and then, well, you know the rest. Cassel was a #3 guy who inherited the #2 spot, and then took over #1. Hoyer was a #4 guy, too, until he beat out Kevin O’Connel to be a #3 behind Cassel, and then a #2.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit
by Comedic.Sans on Jul 30, 2011 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions
QB-wise
I agree. BB has had a history of QB manuevers.
I just think the window on Brady is closing fast, and BB might have gone with just two QB’s as a result. A “win now” mindset, within reason, may explain a shift in this QB development approach. It will be interesting to see if he keeps just two again this season. If so, I’m seeing this as a “win now” mindset. If he goes with three, I see it from your view that he has some thoughts that Mallet might be a keeper.
I doubt anything happens at QB.
Barring some desperate team doing something completely irrational, Mallett and Hoyer both come into week 1 (in some order).
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
Even the depth chart doesn't matter so much, now
No third-QB rule. Woo!
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit
by Comedic.Sans on Jul 31, 2011 1:46 AM EDT up reply actions
when 2014 comes and if mallet hones his skills enough, the patriots may have very difficult decision to make. i think patriots will have best QB depth in NFL.
I would love to keep mallet
i think having mallet being tutored by the best QB in the league for 4 years, and starting after that, is more valuable than trading him for a rookie QB who we might not know will be a star or not.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
Wow, not sure why I put third, I was thinking 7th.
third QB, I think I meant. After that old drop-kicking fella :)
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit
by Comedic.Sans on Jul 31, 2011 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions
if brady goes down, i think patriots will still be in decent shape with hoyer at helm. i don’t know whether he will light up field to the degree brady does but i think he will be a very stable back up worst case
when you start plucking in the roster spots, carrying those extra RB and TE will require waiving other good players who will never survive waivers
Most teams carry 3 QBs on their 53 man roster.
Hoyer is ineligible, and neither he nor Mallett would make it through waivers.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
Ty Warren must have arrived out of shape or his injury has limited his flexibility, etc. I never worry about BB’s releases. He knows exactly what he wants, what he needs, and who he believes best meets those requirements.
I do think BB has seen the light with the advantages of having a heavier collection of youth. They have maximum motivation. They arrive as clean slates to teach. They will do whatever role they are asked to fulfill. And, they are cheap.
A 100% healthy Deaderick, Brace, or Pryor will be faster, quicker, and ultimately stronger (as the game unfolds) than a less than 100% Ty Warren. I believe that is a key factor in these release decisions.
He's good at cutting D-line
Jarvis Green was cut at exactly the right time – he disappeared the next season.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit
by Comedic.Sans on Jul 30, 2011 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Green
Agreed. And the Seymour trade was a shrewd money and draft pick scenario. True, it created a void, but the long term is important enough to justify the move. Solder, I believe, is the “long term” that BB achieved with Seymour’s trade.
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