Analysis of the Patriot's release of Ty Warren
Rumours are swirling following the Patriot's decision to cut starting left defensive end Ty Warren. He fell out of favour with the organisation for one reason or another, the team is changing schemes...etc. Whatever the reason may be, it is also clear that the overwhelming majority of fans are concerned with this decision, as they expected Ty Warren to come in and form a formidably front three together with stalwart nose tackle Vince Wilfork and the newly acquired Albert Haynesworth. As troubling as this decision may seem, lets analyse it from two points of view: the Patriots without Ty Warren and the decision to actually cut Warren...
Patriots without Ty Warren
After a stellar 2006 season in which Warren recorded 84 tackles and 7.5 sacks, he was rewarded with a shiny new deal, one which would have paid him over $6million this season. Perhaps the defining principle of Bill Belichick is value. Since signing that new deal, Warren's production and health has gone down, having recorded only 7 sacks total since combined with missing games in both 2008 and 2009 due to injury. This doesn't even take into account the fact Warren missed the entirety of 2010 with a hip injury.
Speaking of 2010, that would be the same year the Patriots went 14-2 with one of the youngest defenses in the NFL and a makeshift defensive line for the year. In Warren's absence, Ron Brace quietly made solid improvements to his game at the defensive end position and Brandon Deaderick showed some promise and an ability to make plays when called upon. Furthermore, another Warren (that would be Gerard) filled in the leadership void that Ty Warren would bring, together with adding a decent pass rush.
Ah yes, the pass rush. When listing the improvements this team would need to make in 2011 to be serious contenders, I would bet 90% of fans would list the following as top of the tree: Improved pass rush, 3rd down defense, a deep threat wide receiver and better protection for Tom Brady. The latter two are of no consequence in this debate clearly but the first two are interesting to consider.
How many fans envisioned Ty Warren on the field for 3rd downs this year, had he still been a Patriot? That's right, he would be on the sideline whilst better pass rushers such as Albert Haynesworth entered the field to try to improve that 3rd down defense. Ty Warren was not a vital cog in terms of making the key improvements this defense needs to make and so, did not represent value at over $6million. Instead the Patriots will retain the players that helped them go 14-2, whilst making moves to improve that pass rush and in turn, the 3rd down defense.
Allowing Warren to leave will not affect how well the Patriots perform as a defense on third down, since he would likely not be on the field in most of those situations.
Decision to cut Warren
To me this is the surprising part of this move. As I have outlined above, I understand completely if the team felt it no longer needed Warren and thought some of the younger players on the roster could do the same job. But in light of the fact that cutting Warren only saves the team just over $200,000 in cap space, it would seem to make no sense whatsoever when you factor in the need around the league for proven 5 technique defensive ends. The Cowboys just resigned Marcus Spears but are in dire need of another DE, the Jets, Redskins, Chiefs, and Texans to name a few could have all used the help. Surely a trade could have been worked out with one of these teams, even for a minimal draft pick - doing so would have at least generated much more cap space than $200k and given the Pats a low draft pick - better than the nothing they get in the current situation.
Some people are still suggesting this move is cap related and Warren will rework his contract but not so according to emerging media reports. Mike Reiss reported the following comments from Ty Warren himself:
"I think it looks like they're trying to get away from the 3-4...When I heard about the different defensive deals they're going to be doing, I didn't see me in that big picture of things, or at least not a huge role in that deal".
This one is final folks. Reading into these comments, it's certainly plausible that Warren requested a release due to the nature of how he saw the defense unfolding and his role in this defense. But surely, the Patriots could have sought a trade while making a commitment to Warren that they would trade him to a winner, as a thank you for his services. He could have even stood to retain his contract in such circumstances. But that didn't happen - the Patriots simply released Warren and Peter King even tweeted yesterday that Warren could take minimum money to go to a contender!
Why release him with such minimal difference in cap space? Something is amiss here - we may never know what that is, but it's clear the Patriots have missed out both financially and in compensation for Ty Warren. Whilst moving on without Warren may have been the right move, to cut him altogether when it makes little difference to the cap is a perplexing move.
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I'm puzzled
as to this move as well. Could have at least got like a 4th or 5th rounder for him I’m sure ?
I have a suspicion
That Ty is done- and I think he has been less than straight with the pats about it.
I believe the manner in which he was dumped is a sign that this guy is poison and I would not be surprised if he gets no offers from other teams.
If this is true then the idea that he could have been cut last year and saved the pats the cap hit would really cause this kind of action. Notice there was no ‘thank you’ to warren from any of the pats brass.
leave the gun, take the connolis
by injuredrightshoulder on Jul 31, 2011 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Belichick sort of acknowledged his contribution yesterday
but it was in no way a tribute or cause for any real personal feelings being shown publicly (unlike the Mike Vrabel trade)
First of all, there were was a couple of releases – several releases we had yesterday were tough ones. Guys like Ty [Warren] and Nick [Kaczur], gave us a lot of good football here, have been players for a long time, really since their rookie year. It’s just tough to have to move on in those situations. Tully [Banta-Cain], certainly has been a contributor for us and Alge [Crumpler] last year, came in and gave us a lot of leadership and gave us a real veteran presence offensively. Those kinds of things are tough. Unfortunately that’s part of what we do. We just had to move on.
Keep the faith!
Really??
For any player like Ty to have trade value they must be deemed to be worth more than their contract.
Ty has not played at his contract level for over 3 years and is probably not 100% healthy.
He was cut because he is worth less than his contract and by the sounds of it a lot lot less.
Peter King tweets he would accept the vet minimum hmmmmmm.
Poor Ashto – still unable to understand how trade value is determined but unable to stop writing articles about them – http://www.patspulpit.com/2011/2/14/1992705/potential-patriots-that-could-be-traded
must be very perplexing
leave the gun, take the connolis
by injuredrightshoulder on Aug 1, 2011 6:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Although finding a trade partner only means you have to find one out of 32 teams that's stupid.
There are restrictions about trading an injured player, though – trades are usually contingent on a player passing a physical, etc. You can negotiate those out (as far as I know), but any team who is offered a player-minus-a-physical will know something is up and (presumably) lower their expectation of value accordingly.
A flat-out release makes me think he’s not 100% healthy, and isn’t likely to be quickly. Seems to be the same rationale for cutting Crumpler and Banta-Cain.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit
Maybe Crump could be Tight-End coach?
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Aug 1, 2011 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Although finding
Ty Warren signs with Broncos. Interesting. The Broncos are now the cast off island for BB’s discards. Crumpler is next.
Thanks ashto.....I think the best conclusion is health
still mending….failed conditioning test….zero time to get ready for season….zero time to put d line together.Yes only 200,000 cap hit, but if they keep him on IR they have to pay him the 6M eventually..right? Figure he’ll miss more games than it is worth. I think they will be 3-4 to 4-3 about the same percentages as last year.
The 3-4 or 4-3 decision hinges on personnel. BB has a lot of fast, young defenders dropping back about 80% of the snaps. When you watch the films, he’ll line up in a 4-3 and one of the DE’s will push on his blocker for a count of 2 or 3 seconds and then, drop.
I think the guy is hurt. BTW One of my favorite players and a great person also,
I think everyone is overstating his potential trade value
He hasn’t had a healthy year since about 2008, missed all of last season, and the team reports that he failed his physical.
He may have asked to be released, though there hasn’t been any report of that; what has been repeated by several media outlets is that he wants to play closer to home, which means either the Cowboys or Texans, both of whom play 3-4.
Deep in enemy territory
I agree
If this were a “normal” offseason I could see him getting traded, but with the blur of activity in the last few day I would have to question how much interest he would actually garner, especially if he didn’t pass a conditioning test. There are definitely interesting questions as to why he was cut this early in camp however. I wish him the best though and am glad he is leaving with class…..
$200,000?
I’ve seen this number floating around the last few days and I guess I’m confused as to where it came from. If he was due 6 million, how would it only affect the cap by $200,000? Just wondering, this years rules are a tad bit confusing……
I imagine most of that is prorated signing bonus.
Say you give a guy 50m deal for 5 years, and half of that is bonus money. You would pay him the 25m bonus up front and 5m a year for the deal. Your cap hit for the deal (how much the contract counts against your salary cap) is 10m a year. If you cut him after year 3, you would then have to take the remainder of the prorated signing bonus as a cap hit in the following year. So your cap hit for year 4 (after cutting the player) is 5m in salary plus 10m in bonus money, or a cap hit of 15m. In this way cutting the player actually increases his cap hit. This is a really simple contract to illustrate the point, but I can see how the math could work out, assuming he had at least one more year after this year on the deal, with those numbers.
Of course if we traded him we’d only be making 200k in cap room also, because after a trade you also have to swallow all prorated guaranteed money that has been paid out. I don’t think trading him would have garnered much more cap room than cutting him did. Couple that with the fact that you can’t trade a player if he doesn’t pass his new team’s physicals, and the possibility we may be overstating his trade value in the first place, and the cutting decision is at least plausible.
Oh... I get it.
Thank you for the explanation. I didn’t really understand where that figure came from either, given that he has a $3.5 million base salary. They are saving on his base salary. They don’t have to pay that, this year or next. It’s just that his salary cap number, rather than being prorated over the rest of his contract, now all immediately counts against the team. And that figure is about 3.3million. But it is only 3.3 million for this year. The prorated portion of the bonus no longer counts against the patriots in future years, because he will not be on the patriots in future years. Have I got that right?
So while yes, they are only saving $200,000 in cap space, they are saving $3.5 million in real money this year by cutting him now, no?
Yeah mostly that's my understanding of it
They paid him his bonus money a long time ago, but the NFL made it a rule that large sums of immediate money (a ‘signing bonus’) had to be prorated over the entire deal. So yeah they’re saving whatever his actual base salary is, 3.5M as you say. And if they’d be paying him that to sit on the PUP or IR, I can understand them moving on.
Okay, thanks
So the Patriots are actually saving alot more than $200,000. They are saving his base salary for this year and any subsequent year he was to play here. Also, by having the remainder of his salary bonus that has not yet counted against the cap now counted against the cap this year because he was cut, the Patriots are saving the prorated portion of Warren’s bonus counting against their cap in future years.
If the Patriots had kept him around this year and cut him next year, the Patriots would have to pay his base salary and the remainder of his signing bonus would still count against the cap in the year he was cut. By cutting him this year, the Patriots are not saving a ton of cap space for this year, because while they are not responsible for his base salary, the remainder of his signing bonus immediately counts against their cap. But they are saving real dollars because they do not have to pay his base salary for this year. And they are saving cap space in future years because they will no longer be reponsible for Warren’s prorated portion of his signing bonus counting against the cap either.
Therefore, although this does not help their cap number this year a whole lot, I think the salary cap was a big reason Warren was cut.
Does anyone else understand my reasoning or am I just making stuff up?
Basically
A little research shows me he was signed through 2013. So we eat 2012 and 2013’s bonus money now instead of then, and we don’t have to pay the salaries for those years (3.25 and 3.9 mil respectively) ever at all. By my rough estimate it lowers next year’s cap hit by almost 7 mil next year and 7.5m in 2013.
We could have saved the exact same amount of money by trading instead of cutting him, but trading him for a dirty sock and a used toothbrush IF he passed the new team’s physical, VS letting a well respected veteran decide his own future, I think we know what the best move is there.
Good stuff
I very much appreciate this explanation. Have a good night.
I am sure the PATS explored every possibility to maximize Ty Warren’s release value. Why bother questioning that? Clearly, he had no trade value, and they did him a service by releasing him early enough to be grabbed by another team.
I am betting that Ty Warren is not close to 100%. I am certain that Brace, Pryor, and Deaderick present far better upside at this time. The question now is whether G. Warren has value in the PAT’s system. If he stays, this was a simple exchange: Haynesworthy or Ty Warren. If G. Warren also exits, then Brace or Deaderick (or both in a rotation) have assumed a far more significant role in the system.
G. Warren is not technically on our team, he is a free agent.
So we will see if BB has any inclination to sign another lineman or resign G. Warren.
G. Warren
OK. Thanks.
To me, this is the last piece to the “D” line puzzle. They either re-sign G. Warren (my expectation), or they add one more guy through FA or a trade.
Wilfork, Haynesworth, Brace, Deaderick, Pryor, Wright, and __________ (G. Warren).
I cannot see more than seven. And, since Stroud was released, it would seem that G. Warren is their choice; otherwise, he should have been released by now.
G. Warren
Consider the scenario if G. Warren returns. It’s last year’s D-line with the addition of Hayesworth. To me, that is a heck of an upgrade with monster implications that an inside rush will be a major factor on 3rd down.
Haynesworth pins back his ears and bull rushes. Good god. I cannot imagine a more pleasant scenario for the PATS. The guy is a wrecking machine. Look at the possibilities:
1 His guard pulls … Haynesworth will cruch the QB during the handoff
2 The opposit guard pulls … he’ll run into Haynesworth
3 The QB has NO pocket to step up into … Haynesworth consumes the pocket and Cunningham, Moore, Nink, etc. are coming off the edge at a QB who cannot step up.
Haynesworth is a HUGE!!! upgrade and fix to the pass rush.
I see Kyle Love coming back over Pryor.
Then again, maybe I’m understating Pryor because of his oft-injured 2010…
Just trying to keep up.
I think Warren would have helped us a lot here. He has experience, and he is solid when healthy.
I can only think that we released him because he was not fully healthy, and that Brace or Deadrick are the better options.
But I hope we get someone in FA anyways. I would prefer Shaun Ellis or Cullen Jenkins. Unless we are moving to more of a 4-3 defense, which we should be fine on DL with cunningham and maybe moore on the other end.
BUt i think we will still be a hybrid D. So we need to bring in another DE, at least for depth reasons. Then OLB and then Safety.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
Why is noone mentioning Myron Pryor?
If I remember, he had a better rookie year than Brace, then was solid last year until injuries slowed him down. But he is still on the roster, and I put him right there with Brace as a guy who still has room for improvement, and has shown at times that he can be solid.
A couple weeks ago I was excited for Ty, and Marcus Stroud, and thought we had some excellent depth. Especially with Ty and Stroud saying all the right things. Now they are both gone, with Stroud, apparently, still not healthy, and with Ty we don’t know. All i can say is, come on Fat Albert, get your s*#t together.
Cullen Jenkins?
Sure TyW cutting was surprising but they got rid of Kazcur, TBC, Crumpler etc so they were clearly making space for someone…
I have a feeling that they are going to make a move for Jenkins which would be a good solid fit, unless there is a LB on the radar nobody is thinking about but noone comes to mind…(Umenyora? not LB I know but could be a rush LB?)
DAMMIT!
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
Not sure they're making room
The other day Belichick said Ocho could not practice with the team until Aug. 4 because with a reconstructed contract that is the earliest a player can participate in full practice with his new team. Ocha is already practicing so I assume his contract was not reconstructed, they just assumed his old one. If I understood the aforementioned correctly then that may explain the cuts. Not for room for soneone else but room to cover Ocho’s contract. I could be wrong…
by FloridaPatsFan on Jul 30, 2011 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Brace should fill in nicely, in my opinion.
I just wonder if we could have traded Warren for Haynesworth + 2012 2nd… hah.
The way I see it, the fact that he failed his physical (not to mention the conditioning test) is the key.
A trade would be conditional upon him passing his physical with his new team. If he can’t pass it, then we don’t get any picks. At most they could PUP him until he could pass a physical somewhere for someone.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Jul 30, 2011 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
My question is:
ESPN announced that the Hayneworth trade was official last night. Where is Albert????
maybe the plane has trouble lifting off.....
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
by Jack'sAxe on Jul 30, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I read somewhere he was at the Pats facility
but still working on “getting ready to practice”…which most people think means he failed his conditioning test. Mike Reiss hinted on twitter that he didn’t think that was necessarily the case, but we’ll see. For what it’s worth, he’s been on our team for 2 days, so I don’t think we should expect him to suddenly be in shape if he spent all offseason thinking up ways to piss off Shanahan.
Deep in enemy territory
It has been reported he did fail his conditioning test.
"Be polite to everyone you meet, but be prepared to kill anyone"-tc16cav
by otisnixon'sparty on Jul 30, 2011 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions
from where?
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
It is on the SBNation front page.
"Be polite to everyone you meet, but be prepared to kill anyone"-tc16cav
by otisnixon'sparty on Jul 30, 2011 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Well hopefully
he’ll be 1 for 2 next time….. if he can take it again. Remember Ron Brace failed his conditioning test last year too. Now he may be starter on the left side.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
I am sure if there are problems they will become quite obvious soon enough, so yeah why worry now.
"Be polite to everyone you meet, but be prepared to kill anyone"-tc16cav
by otisnixon'sparty on Jul 30, 2011 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions
From who, though?
Let’s see him in sweats before saying he failed this or that.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
IAs I said, it is on the front page, it has a name.
"Be polite to everyone you meet, but be prepared to kill anyone"-tc16cav
by otisnixon'sparty on Jul 31, 2011 1:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Ron Borges.
I’ll wait for Mike Reiss to tell me he’s failed before I believe it.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
Good plan because it was patently wrong.
Borges couldn’t report his way out of a paper bag, and if it was a plastic bag, he’d already be dead.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Jul 31, 2011 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I was merely pointing it out, nothing more, nothing less.
"Be polite to everyone you meet, but be prepared to kill anyone"-tc16cav
by otisnixon'sparty on Jul 31, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh yeah, I know it's not your fault.
But wild speculation by one guy who should know better, and it’s picked up by the national guys, and then all hell breaks loose based on something that’s incorrect.
"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West
Just wanted to be clear. And anyway, you can only blame dude so much. That is kinda what it looked like, and was reported as, just no one wanted to actually say the words. He made the leap and got smacked. I love all the intrigue around the camp, football is great.
"Be polite to everyone you meet, but be prepared to kill anyone"-tc16cav
by otisnixon'sparty on Jul 31, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
No harm, no foul.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Jul 31, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I just hope
He is not trying to outsmart us and get out of as much practice as he can. The guy is saying all the right words, like this is a new start, I am coming here with a rookie attitude. Other people has said he is a smart cookie and uses that to get what he wants. I do remember his saying back in Aug of 2009, when he sacked Brady in a pre-season game and injured him that…………He was trying to hurt Brady, he liked him and how he works, He went on to say he liked Belichick and has always liked the Pats, and the way they do things. something like that. I just don’t know with this guy
lol yeah, huge difference.
sorry about that
by FloridaPatsFan on Jul 30, 2011 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
My assumption was that Ty Warren was cut to make salary cap room and/or roster spot for Haynesworth.
I really wanted to see Ty Warren come back because I think injury free, he would play much better. Oh well.
Would like to see
them pick up a formidable pass rusher from the outside to go along with Vince and Albert if Albert comes with his full ability. But that has been said here many times
by FloridaPatsFan on Jul 30, 2011 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
TY Warren
Why would any team take on a 6Mil contract on a DE-T w’a hip problem ? 1st mistake was instead of getting the operation after the 2009 season Ty waited until he got to camp. He got paid last year but nobody knows if he can physically play. I wouldn’t risk 6Mil to find out. Look at the names that have been cut in Dallas. It’s not what you were before the injury.It’s what you are now (2 years later).

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