And it finally shows itself

by Chris Kole on Sep 25, 2011 7:01 PM EDT

I said earlier this week that I wasn't going to take anything out of this game regardless of the outcome (because I didn't really expect the Bills to win), but this loss perfectly shows what I hoped the Patriots would realize. The value of a good 3rd WR. They have been consistently all of last year and this year choosing STs ability (Elderman) over WR ability (Price) and guess what IT CAME BACK TO BITE THEM. They tried STs guys on offense and hope they produce (Elderman) and when they needed a play by another receiver not named Gronk or Welker it back fired on them. Maybe this loss will finally give Taylor Price the game-day nod. They have always used the reasoning

We know player X (Taylor Price) is significantly better at his natural position than player Y (Brandon Tate, Julian Elderman, Matthew Slater) but he can't play STs so we can't choose Player X over player Y even once because they make a significant impact on STs (they're not Devin Hester but they are good ST players) which is more than you can say for player X.

The pats really could have given those snaps on Offense to TP instead of Julian and when Branch was neutralized we no longer had another legit option outside the TEs and Welker. Hopefully this loss will finally make the Patriots get Price involved and start to develop him.

PS: This is not an indictment on Slater or Elderman, they are good STs players and do contribute to the team, and I for one appreciate their contributions, but can they be relied on on offense when the coverage gets tight, Branch isn't getting open and Welker and the TEs are doubled? From what they've shown the answer is no. Thats exactly why it frustrates me to see Price inactive week after week after week. All that time that could be used to develop a rapport with a kid that has huge WR potential is instead going to forcing STs players on the offense. Again I'm not saying STs tackles and 15-24 yard punt returns don't matter, but in the end they are not more valuable than another reliable contributor on offense. Ask yourself this would 75 yards in field position matter if Ochocinco created separation on that Brady pick or caught that deep pass that would have saved us literally three and half minutes on the drive? Think about it instead of the Bills going up by 3 with no time left we would have had nearly four minutes to the tie the game.

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Very good point.

It’s exactly like the 2009 season- there was no one beyond the top 2 receivers (Gronk/Welker). Hernandez opens up so much of the field and forces mismatches that Branch can capitalize upon.

That said, they still put up 30+ points. They need to figure out their defense. They need to find a better safety to play with Chung and they need a defensive end who can generate some sort of pressure.

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by Richard Hill on Sep 25, 2011 7:30 PM EDT reply actions

They need all those things

but the only difference is they actually have that other WR (that could get open) but they are refusing to active him. Speaking of glaring needs did Cunningham play?

Taylor Price will be the starter by the end of the season (Said before Training Camp)

by Chris Kole on Sep 25, 2011 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions

I saw him on ST and at the goal line

Other than that, I don’t think so. It was a lot of Wilfork, Love, Carter, Ninkovich, Ellis and maybe a bit of Anderson and Cohen on the DL. Nink rushed from both the DE and OLB positions. I don’t get Carter. I mean, he looked very good in the preseason, and now he is disappearing.

Deep in enemy territory

by JeffyB on Sep 25, 2011 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions

Why isn't Cunningham getting reps?

Taylor Price will be the starter by the end of the season (Said before Training Camp)

by Chris Kole on Sep 25, 2011 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions

I mean, you know as well as I do

I guess because he struggled in the preseason and hasn’t looked great in practice? Nobody is really writing about him though, so it’s hard to get a read.

If he and Taylor Price somehow show up in the next couple weeks and make an impact I’ll start to forget that we just lost to the Buffalo freaking Bills.

Deep in enemy territory

by JeffyB on Sep 25, 2011 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions

They need to continue developing him

I mean he was a 2nd round pick is Shaun Ellis really playing too well to share reps with him? He was suppose to be the answer to the pass rush when they drafted him so why just shelf him?
I swear I do not understand how the Patriots are evaluating their team. We want to improve the secondary so we draft one CB, but release our top 3 of our top 4 safeties, and we want to address the pass rush so we give Shaun Ellis reps over the guy we supposed drafted to rush the passer.

Taylor Price will be the starter by the end of the season (Said before Training Camp)

by Chris Kole on Sep 25, 2011 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions

I don't think Ellis was ever a real pass rusher

I don’t know why myself and others thought he would be. It just isn’t there. I think, overall, he played well. In that 3-man line we had he played a lot of 5 tech it looked like and held up well. I like Kyle Love but he isn’t that strong at the line; we need Haynesworth back.

Our ends aren’t getting any pressure, though. Ellis is good against the run, but Carter is getting chipped and blocked easily, Anderson is the new TBC, and Ninkovich, for all his effort, isn’t very good. I would stick Cunningham in there at end and see what he could do at this point. He’s apparently healthy again, and with the defensive front struggling like it has been I don’t see any harm in trying him out.

Deep in enemy territory

by JeffyB on Sep 26, 2011 8:52 AM EDT up reply actions

Interceptions made the difference

Nothing else mattered.

Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner

by New Century Silver on Sep 25, 2011 7:58 PM EDT reply actions

So the D, Ocho, Branch, Elderman

all played lights out today?

Taylor Price will be the starter by the end of the season (Said before Training Camp)

by Chris Kole on Sep 25, 2011 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions

No, but they don't have to for us to win.

Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner

by New Century Silver on Sep 25, 2011 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions

That doesn't mean they don't matter

If one of them actually played well guess who would be 3-0 and leading the division (hint: it wouldn’t be the Bills)

Taylor Price will be the starter by the end of the season (Said before Training Camp)

by Chris Kole on Sep 25, 2011 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions

Oh yeah and 3 of Brady's picks

could have been avoided if he had another legit receiving option.
1st pick: Flat throw to a tightly covered Woodhead
2nd Pick: Forced throw to a completely covered Ochocinco
3rd Pick: Forced throw down the seam to a well covered Gronk
So WRs and Brady’s performance are directly correlated

Taylor Price will be the starter by the end of the season (Said before Training Camp)

by Chris Kole on Sep 25, 2011 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions

Bad decisions by Brady.

Can always wait or just throw it away…

Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner

by New Century Silver on Sep 25, 2011 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions

Either way

Having a guy outside of those 2 options (H-Bomb) would have been the difference. We could have easily won by 2 scores if Hernandez played

Taylor Price will be the starter by the end of the season (Said before Training Camp)

by Chris Kole on Sep 25, 2011 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions

Bad decisions by Brady.

Nope. 1.The throw to Woodhead went to a place where in theory only could have catch it. Not an easy catch, but a good decision and throw.

2. Also not a bad one to Ocho. Gronkowski, Welker, Hernandez and probably Price would have catch it. Ocho had a leverage but positioned himself really bad. Brady couldhave thrown a bit more away from the defender, but to throw to Ocho was not a bad decision. (one on one with a step leverage)

3. As for Gronk: it was not a bad decision, should have thrown 2-3 inch higher. Watch Gronks’s catches: he is often well covered, but perfectly thrown ball and his size and strength let him to get the ball.

I would say none of this decisions were bad, but Brady could have thrown better 2 of them. The pas to Danny was a fluke.

The worst decision and throw was the one to Edelman. (Surprisingly this one was not mentioned by Chris:))

by frogfromthemud on Sep 26, 2011 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions

Nah I disagree

the throw to Gronk and Ocho weren’t good decisions. Yeah if he threw it a bit higher it could have worked but you are not always going to make the perfect throw to beat great coverage on Gronk. Kind of reminds of of when he was forcing it to Moss against the Jets. And I didn’t see much separation from Ocho either (partly Ocho’s fault for running a sloppy ropute).

Taylor Price will be the starter by the end of the season (Said before Training Camp)

by Chris Kole on Sep 27, 2011 6:37 AM EDT up reply actions

Brady often throws to Gronk into tight coverage. Sometimes tighter than what you saw at the Int.

This is the NFl, Brady and Gronk.

by frogfromthemud on Sep 27, 2011 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions

Taylor Price hasn’t played due to his hamstring. Nothing more as far as I know. A lot of things are still in flux. Only week 3 folks. I know there are some causes for concern, but things can be figured out.

by Patriots12 on Sep 26, 2011 12:31 AM EDT reply actions

Everyone does know Taylor Price is injured, right?

"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West

by ISN on Sep 26, 2011 12:51 AM EDT reply actions

Since the Giants game?

That was 4 weeks ago. They are obviously just red shirting him in favor of keeping Slater and Elderman out there Exactly what they did last year. Worked out real well in that playoff game btw

Taylor Price will be the starter by the end of the season (Said before Training Camp)

by Chris Kole on Sep 26, 2011 1:02 AM EDT reply actions

Remember the hit he took in the legs?

He’s got a hamstring or thigh injury.

"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West

by ISN on Sep 26, 2011 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions

I completely disagree with your assessment.

Not that we haven’t needed another solid receiving option to open up the offense in the past but this year no, that isn’t the problem. It was as much Brady’s decision making than anything else. It’s not like the offense wasn’t moving the ball. They clearly had plenty of options all day.

I know you are a big proponent for the arrival of Taylor Price but as ISN has been saying…he is injured. You can make assumptions all you like about suspected redshirting but I don’t buy it. It would be unnecessary for them to list him on the injury report. Its not like BB would have any trouble healthy scratching him if he wanted.

Also not to be too nit picky but his name is Edelman.

by Oughat on Sep 26, 2011 4:32 AM EDT up reply actions

He has been practicing

all week for the past two weeks. You’re telling me that if they wanted him on the field he wouldn’t go despite participating in every practice?
And plenty of options? Do you know how many targets went to Gronk and Welker? Look at the two past games and how SPREAD the ball around and then look at this game and tell me Buffalo didn’t know who to cover all day. They just simply couldn’t cover Gronk and Welker for the most part

Taylor Price will be the starter by the end of the season (Said before Training Camp)

by Chris Kole on Sep 26, 2011 6:59 AM EDT up reply actions

He's been in attendence

but has been limited in practice. So yeah, he’s “practicing”, but he’s not game-ready at this point.

Deep in enemy territory

by JeffyB on Sep 26, 2011 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions

Taylor Price plus

I’m a big fan of Taylor Price and may pick him for fantasy before he heals but the Pats need to run the ball. The disappointment is Ridley and Vereen are not contributing. Brady can’t be expected to have a year like last particularly with present receiving personnel and the adjustments teams have made to this passing offense. His non interception record was astounding alone; in addition to his other superb acheivements. This is an abberation not something to be expected though. The lack of pass rush is evident and leads to the bad coverage. The no huddle offense is putting the D on the field longer. BJGE,Woodhead and hopefully the rookies need to provide some relief.

by WRMaurer on Sep 26, 2011 9:22 AM EDT reply actions

Did you watch it?

Ridley was one of the bright spots on O, expect him to get a lot more touches over the next few weeks.

"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me." Mayor Adam West

by ISN on Sep 26, 2011 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions

He needs to play more.

by WRMaurer on Sep 26, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions

I agree.

In 2009, we had two viable threats, and when they got shut down, we lost. Belichick even admitted in “A Football Life”, which was good to see because hopefully he’ll recognize it again.

Here’s the differences: Herndo IS a viable third threat, and when he comes back, it’ll give us some help. In 2009, we couldn’t run the ball, and yesterday Ridley was getting 6 yards a carry. Why we didn’t run more when up by 21 points I’ll never know. Someone was being awfully clever there.

Edelman hasn’t done much the last two years, and when he gets the ball he tries to do too much. The only reason I’m not down on him more is that he keeps Wes from handling punts, and if you thought our offense was poor yesterday, just watch it when Wes isn’t catching 16 balls for 217 yards. We need Wes healthy, because for all the “next Wes Welker” talk, there’s nobody quite like him.

Branch gets washed out of games. He can catch, and he has a good connection with Brady, but when they try to take him out of the game, he’s gone. Period.

Ocho should be the X-factor, but he’s just slowing moving from a non-factor to a negative play factor. I still have hope for Ocho, but the dude has to WANT to play, and I’m afraid I don’t see that. You could swap him for the 2010 Moss and you wouldn’t be able to tell the difference.

That leaves Slater, who is fast, but can’t get seperation (he’s like 2009 Sam Aiken), and Price. Might as well be Price, because if he can’t catch, we’ve got zero reason to keep him. At least he might be motivated.

The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Sep 26, 2011 4:12 PM EDT reply actions

I completely understand your Ocho

frustration because after that game I thought he would never be a contributor to this offense and should just be cut immediately. After a day to sleep on it, I am still willing to give Ocho another chance. Look at it this way, on the drop he clearly got separation between the him and the corner and was in perfect position to catch the ball. Brandon Tate wouldn’t have got that separation. He is getting better at least with his connection with Brady. He is making progress each week, and it’s showing up (in bits)

“Chad is definitely making more plays for us, and that’s important for our offense. They’re going to have to defend everybody.”

Yes it was a very bad drop, but he has shown he can separate from the defender. He hasn’t gotten a ton of snaps either. He kind of reminds me of what James Jones was for GB last year. Talented WR, could get separation (at times, but not very consistently) and had trouble with his drops. Jones only had 3 really good games for the Packers but did make the a occasional big catch in the game. If Ocho could just make one or two positive big plays a game like Jones that would make the offense better.

Taylor Price will be the starter by the end of the season (Said before Training Camp)

by Chris Kole on Sep 26, 2011 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions

I'm probably more emotional about this than I have a right to be, but that's where the fanatic part comes in.

Here’s the deal: Welker had 16 catches for 217 yards, 2 TDs. Prior to this he had 15 catches for 247 yards, 2 TDs. He essentially doubled his season output on one game, and we lost.

Shrink says: …and how did that make you feel?

Like 2007, when Wes ties the Super Bowl record for 11 catches and was the most reliable target for Brady the whole game. He even had a decent shot at MVP, IF we had won the game. But, we didn’t. Could have. Should have, but nobody on the Pats side put in as much effort as Wes did.

This game feels the same. It’s easy to be up when the team is winning, and it’s hard to be up when you’re down – especially at a road game. It’s when you need to see a little bit more, and dig a little deeper. I don’t see it, and it bums me out, because Welker seems to have his best games when the chips are down, and it’d be nice if someone else could try as hard.

I’ll be alright, and maybe the team will be alright as long as they don’t have to scratch and claw for the win. If they do, I know one player that will give it his all, but there are 52 other guys on the team to worry about.

End rant.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Sep 26, 2011 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions

And Price can catch

trust me he has got good hands

Taylor Price will be the starter by the end of the season (Said before Training Camp)

by Chris Kole on Sep 26, 2011 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions

IF he ever makes it onto the field, lol

Keep the faith!

by Marima on Sep 26, 2011 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions

Price should be healthy at first. He is one of the ...

…Humpty Dumpties of the team

by frogfromthemud on Sep 26, 2011 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions

He is healthy enough to play

The patriots just don’t want him to play

Taylor Price will be the starter by the end of the season (Said before Training Camp)

by Chris Kole on Sep 27, 2011 6:37 AM EDT up reply actions

How do you know that?

Keep the faith!

by Marima on Sep 27, 2011 7:01 AM EDT up reply actions

You know, he just...knows:D

by frogfromthemud on Sep 27, 2011 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions

Because a hamstring usually

doesn’t keep players out of games especially if they have been practicing for the past two weeks. It’s not a very crippling injury. Gary Guyton was listed with a hamstring and was questionable but still played this week.

Taylor Price will be the starter by the end of the season (Said before Training Camp)

by Chris Kole on Sep 27, 2011 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions