Super Bowl Patriots vs Giants: Different Trenches

by Richard Hill on Jan 25, 2012 10:45 AM EST in Opinion/Analysis

The Giants defensive line will wreak havoc on the Patriots offensive line. That's a generally accepted fact on how the Giants are expected to slow down the Patriots potent passing attack. The last time these two teams squared off in Week 9, the Giants sacked quarterback Tom Brady twice, allowed two hits, and gave up nine pressures.

In the pre-season game between these two teams, the Giants managed to sack Patriots quarterbacks an astonishing eight times. In the Super Bowl between these two teams? The Giants notched 5 sacks and the Patriots offense was never able to find its groove.

A lot of people are expecting the same approach by the Giants: Pressure Brady and the Patriots offense will crumble. I think the storyline should be a little different. I expect the Patriots to win the trench battle in the Super Bowl.

In the Patriots four playoff games prior to this season, the Patriots offensive line turned into sieves and couldn't stop a wet paperbag.

'07 San Diego Chargers - 2 Sacks

'07 New York Giants - 5 Sacks

'09 Baltimore Ravens - 3 Sacks

'10 New York Jets - 5 Sacks

Now all of those teams featured prominent pass rushers, from Michael Strahan to Terrell Suggs. The Patriots offensive line was completely dominated and their defensive counterpart was unable to generate any type of pressure (4 total sacks in the same four games, with 3 sacks coming in the Giants Super Bowl).

This season seems to be different. The Giants are coming off of a 6-sacks-allowed performance where their offensive line was unable to sustain their blocks. The Patriots? They've allowed one (1) sack in these playoffs and held vaunted pass rushers like Von Miller, Elvis Dumervil, and Terrell Suggs to a total of 2 QB hits and 5 QB pressures. That's extraordinary production.

On the other side of the football, the Patriots defense has been able to dial up the pressure on opposing quarterbacks with eight sacks against the Broncos and the Ravens- and this is a defense that combined for 0 sacks in their prior two playoff games.

The Patriots trenchmen are playing complimentary football at the perfect time. If they put together one more solid performance, the Patriots could be well on their way to another Super Bowl victory.

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Agreed

I agree Richard. The question then remains as to why Brady was ineffective in the Ravens game. In this case, the problem was with our receivers not being able to get the separation from the Ravens secondary. Do you think the Giants have a better or equivalent secondary in Antrel Rolle, Aaron Ross and the others.. To your point.. not being sacked / hurried / hit is definitely better.

by knn9413 on Jan 25, 2012 10:52 AM EST reply actions

Brady

I don’t think receivers not getting separation was the issue at all – I think Brady is human and made some uncharacteristic poor throws and poor decisions. The INT in the endzone on the deep throw was a poor decision more than anything, although I agree it was kind of pathetic the defender was 10 yards further downfield than Slater. We don’t have any kind of deep threat whatsoever, I agree with that. And obviously Gronk was wide, wide open on the misfire in the first quarter that would have led to an easy touchdown. In any case the Giants’ secondary is nowhere near as good as the Ravens’. If the Patriots can control the line of scrimmage like they have been, I like our chances.

by usuallee on Jan 25, 2012 11:01 AM EST up reply actions

I was wondering why the Pats could not adjust

The Ravens did not match specific receivers (especially TEs) when they went in motion. As mentioned 50 times, the Ravens just stood there and took whoever came their way. Why couldn’t the Patriots offensive coordinators (BoB or McDaniels) take advantage of this? Find the better matchup for a guy like Hernandez and motion him to the side of the weaker coverage LB. Or overload one side to force the Ravens to move? It seemed like an easy adjustment to me and I was smiling after the 1st quarter because I thought the Pats would easily use it to their advantage.

by iLikeStuff on Jan 25, 2012 11:20 AM EST up reply actions

I had a dream last night the Pats lost in a blowout

I think I’m possessed by Hank. This helped though, Richard. Thank you.

by bbismyhero on Jan 25, 2012 11:13 AM EST via mobile reply actions

that’s post traumatic stress from previous 2007 super bowl

reliving a nightmare is common

by prioris on Jan 25, 2012 7:09 PM EST up reply actions

Jason Strahan?

Did Michael change his name?

The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
Belichick is looking for a new name for his boat: VI Rings sounds pretty good.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Jan 25, 2012 11:15 AM EST reply actions 1 recs

I think he meant Jared - from Subway

by iLikeStuff on Jan 25, 2012 11:21 AM EST up reply actions

or maybe JPP

by SlotMachinePlayer on Jan 25, 2012 11:37 AM EST up reply actions

Both wrong.

Was thinking of Jason Sehorn for some reason.

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by Richard Hill on Jan 25, 2012 12:15 PM EST up reply actions

Jason stratham

From such classics as crank, death race. and of course crank 2

by Timberg193 on Jan 25, 2012 4:01 PM EST up reply actions

Possibly Jason Bourne.

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by Richard Hill on Jan 25, 2012 4:04 PM EST up reply actions

Matt Damon is a Pats fan

Tedy Bruschi- "How do we feel about being AFC Champs?"
Team- "Aww Yeah!!!"

by freeland1787 on Jan 25, 2012 4:08 PM EST up reply actions

Sacks aren't a huge deal

If the Giant get 2 sacks, it shouldn’t be a big deal – especially since Brady doesn’t lose many yards on them. He doesn’t run back 12 yards. He usually stands in there or moves up. But if there is constant pressure/hits, then it’s more effective.

Good QB’s can handle some pressure but when it’s constant they are only human and start getting jittery. Look at that 4th down play by Flacco. He felt Wilfork coming and threw the ball out of bounds. Out of bounds. On 4th down. It would have been better to throw one up deep so the Pats get the ball further away. Or at least give your guys a chance. But pressure will cause you to make bad decisions.

I think Brady was feeling the pressure before the game actually started. That pressure really never got there often enough but it still seemed Brady was off. The Giants do have some nice speed rushers but besides Pierre-Paul, they aren’t that great vs. the run. I think this game it’s time to give Ridley his shot. I think playing on turf benefits him more than BJGE. Will help woodhead too, but I like Ridley’s size.

by iLikeStuff on Jan 25, 2012 11:32 AM EST reply actions

When he's healthy

Tuck is twice the run stopper jpp has been this season.

Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
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by wilddre22 on Jan 25, 2012 1:47 PM EST via Android app up reply actions

Not sure about twice

but is Tuck fully healthy now?

by iLikeStuff on Jan 25, 2012 1:55 PM EST up reply actions

As healthy as he is going to be this year

by Late for Dinner on Jan 25, 2012 2:19 PM EST up reply actions

I'm going to have more on this in my article tmrw morning

But I truly think a key to this is BB and his staff coming up with really creative line variations on defense, especially on third downs.

One scheme I really enjoyed was having Mark Anderson and Big Vince line up directly next to one another over the left guard. Vince bullrushed the guard/center gap, and Anderson came through directly behind him and chose which direction to keep pursuing.

I think Belichick is more confident in his lineman and front seven in general this year, and this has allowed him to get fancy in big situations.

Also, Brandon Spikes is a demon when it comes to run blitzing and collapsing the pocket. I don’t think I’ve seen him blitz once where he hasn’t created havoc up the middle.

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by Austin Martin on Jan 25, 2012 11:48 AM EST via mobile reply actions

If I expect a terrible crushing defeat...

… will I get a surprising victory, complete with John Tomase making inadequately sourced reports that the Giants have been illegally replacing their linemen with killer cyborgs from the future?

Because that would be really nice.

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by nuthinboutnuthin on Jan 25, 2012 11:56 AM EST reply actions

Dear Bill

I bitched so much about not drafting pass rushers in the first round round last year. As it turned out, you clearly knew better than I did. My biggest apology.

Best

Thad Castle: Which one of you assholes stuck his finger in my asshole?

by cruelangelT on Jan 25, 2012 12:09 PM EST reply actions

He definitely assessed the need

in the acquisitions of both Mark Anderson and Andre Carter. He knew it was a must, but neither of us here thought it would come from anywhere outside of the draft.

I’d still like to see a young pass rushing talent plucked from the draft eventually as Anderson and Carter are short-term fixes, but BB clearly thought more of these two guys over the slew of pass rushers coming out of college.

Can I Scream?

by Adam Fox on Jan 25, 2012 12:45 PM EST up reply actions

Anderson may not be that short term.

He’s only 28. If he keeps playing the way he did this year, Belichick may keep him around for a few more years. Even if it’s only as a third down pass rusher/nickel package D-end, I think Anderson would want to play in New England. Last year he only played in 11 games, and the year before that only 4. Here he played in 16, and albeit I think he only started 1 or 2, he had a big impact on some of the games he was in. Also, I think the fact that he’s going back to the Super Bowl for the first time since his rookie year will help in that decision.
You know, now that I think about it.. the team that Anderson played in his rookie Super Bowl is the team that resides in the stadium in which he’s going to play this Super Bowl. Hopefully he’s got lots of bad blood in him, and gets a Willie McGinest-esque 4.5 sacks.

It matters not how strait the gate, nor charged with punishments the scroll:
I am the Master of my fate. I am the Captain of my soul.

by BigRussNovak on Jan 25, 2012 3:08 PM EST up reply actions

and has started all 3 playoff games

Tedy Bruschi- "How do we feel about being AFC Champs?"
Team- "Aww Yeah!!!"

by freeland1787 on Jan 25, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions

On Sportscenter

They just detailed the “Nascar package” that the Giants run where they line up four DE’s at once. How do you think the Patriots will deal with this?

by A Guy on Jan 25, 2012 12:34 PM EST reply actions

You counter penetration and over-pursuit with runs up the middle, draws, screens etc. Guys like Osi have a great pass rush, but not so hot against the run (JPP is though).
I think the no-huddle/shotgun force them to get tired too, assuming they can keep it going with lots of quick completions.

by Cro-mags on Jan 25, 2012 12:38 PM EST up reply actions

The only problem with your counter

Is that we don’t really employ nascar until third and long situations. So if you ran draws and counters in that situation, the odds of getting the first would be slim.

by wilddre22 on Jan 25, 2012 1:55 PM EST via Android app up reply actions

screen passes still work on 3rd down

Tedy Bruschi- "How do we feel about being AFC Champs?"
Team- "Aww Yeah!!!"

by freeland1787 on Jan 25, 2012 3:49 PM EST up reply actions

well ask shanahan

Lakers and Patriots forever.

by D.S.T. on Jan 25, 2012 3:28 PM EST up reply actions

andy reid

by The Blood of Eli on Jan 25, 2012 3:49 PM EST up reply actions

see andy reid

by The Blood of Eli on Jan 25, 2012 12:40 PM EST up reply actions

patriots could just lob a little nerve gas near front 4 DE while in the huddle way way back

no more nascar package problem

by prioris on Jan 25, 2012 7:25 PM EST up reply actions

What's Vollmer's Status?

I know he hasn’t played lately, back injuries are tricky. But is he expected to play? It seems when he’s in there it frees Solder up to be deployed all over the place.

by Cro-mags on Jan 25, 2012 12:35 PM EST reply actions

I think Brady was trying to do too much

Seemed like he was trying to make the perfect throws against the ravens rather than just do what he does so well…this is gonna be a big challenge for the front line as tuck osi and jpp all can get through lineman if they’re not doubled…the problem in 2007 was that the patriots didn’t make the necessary adjustments at the half to keep the tight ends in and help chip block the rush before they went out into their patterns…it’s extremely important that vollmer as healthy so solder can be inserted as the extra blocker when needed and let’s be honest he was getting beaten pretty badly against the ravens even though it didn’t lead to many sacks…the other important part is that brady gets the ball out fast he’s not going to be able to hold the ball for more than 3 or 4 seconds if that

by jolink65 on Jan 25, 2012 12:46 PM EST reply actions

there are ways to reduce a pass rush

draws, quick screens, and power runs

Tedy Bruschi- "How do we feel about being AFC Champs?"
Team- "Aww Yeah!!!"

by freeland1787 on Jan 25, 2012 1:34 PM EST up reply actions

Ugh, just remembered the first play from scrimmage in '08 bowl

yeah it was a screen……….it didn’t work.

by furiousd on Jan 25, 2012 2:21 PM EST up reply actions

Haha... how can you remember that?

I completely blocked out all the details (except that last drive when it’s all too clear)

Keep the faith!

by Marima on Jan 25, 2012 3:06 PM EST up reply actions

Don't know

and i could be wrong, but that’s how I remember our first play on O. It was one of those screen plays where Brady looks out and throws it into the ground after a second because, in this case I believe Maroney was well covered by the giants. I thought, dang, they were ready for our first play, and I thought, yeah we should probably screen them to get the pass rush backed off, but the first play?
I think a similar play happened against Baltimore, or recently, where the screen is called, and Brady see in a second that the guy out of the backfield is covered and throws the ball in the ground. I always think, isn’t there someone else running a route on this call? Or do they really run a screen play and there’s literally only one person who is going to get the ball. I mean Brady had another second or two to see if someone else was open, so I’m not sure what’s up with that.

by furiousd on Jan 27, 2012 7:47 PM EST up reply actions

the game itself is in 15 parts and on youtube

as is the tuck rule game

Tedy Bruschi- "How do we feel about being AFC Champs?"
Team- "Aww Yeah!!!"

by freeland1787 on Jan 25, 2012 3:50 PM EST up reply actions

no adjustment

they just did not adjust in 2007.. as someone mentioned maroney was at his best and could not rush causing them to completely move away from the running game other than occasional, oh, “We have to run too”. With Law Firm and Danny W, we should prob run a little bit more and maybe that would help keep them off…(My inner Hank is just not going away :-( ) Got to wait for Alec to post next week… )

by knn9413 on Jan 25, 2012 4:49 PM EST up reply actions

love our O-line right now

they have really come together and have played better than any other team in the playoffs(maybe the Texans). I feel confident in them, and I know it’s a tough match-up that we have lost the last three meetings, but I believe we will perform better here, and it could be the difference. We do have to make sure we take advantage of blitzing situations,whenever they send in Kiwanuka, or Boley, make them pay.

by furiousd on Jan 25, 2012 2:20 PM EST reply actions 1 recs

Just muscle the ball down their throats sometimes

just to show that the offensive line isn’t going to get pushed around this time. We’ve got a healthy, dominating Brian Waters instead of a very injured Stephen Neal. We’ve got Solder/Vollmer instead of Nick Kaczur. Gronkowski and Marcus Cannon, 6’5 360 pounds of bulldozing power, are the extra blockers, and not Ben Watson. I hope Dante and Mankins instill a sense of ferocity into the linemen, and make it known from the start that THEY’RE the ones that are going to dictate the game, and not the Giants D-line.

It matters not how strait the gate, nor charged with punishments the scroll:
I am the Master of my fate. I am the Captain of my soul.

by BigRussNovak on Jan 25, 2012 3:17 PM EST reply actions

OL

Light-Mankins-Connolly-Waters-Vollmer with Light as the smallest guy? Why not?

Tedy Bruschi- "How do we feel about being AFC Champs?"
Team- "Aww Yeah!!!"

by freeland1787 on Jan 25, 2012 3:52 PM EST up reply actions

I give Solder the nod to keep continuity between the last couple of games

However obviously I’d like to have Vollmer back as depth (or replacement)

by Timberg193 on Jan 25, 2012 4:05 PM EST up reply actions

Vollmer has been practicing since the regular season ended

I don’t see how that affects the continuity. A healthy Vollmer is the best option at RT

Tedy Bruschi- "How do we feel about being AFC Champs?"
Team- "Aww Yeah!!!"

by freeland1787 on Jan 25, 2012 4:07 PM EST up reply actions

Not too sure if he is best option

Vollmer wasn’t dominating when he was in there this year. I don’t see a semi rusty Vollmer being much better then Solder.

by iLikeStuff on Jan 25, 2012 4:16 PM EST up reply actions

Ya thats purely your opinion

Game time continuity is different than simply practicing. However you could be completely right, maybe BB thinks Vollmer is the better guy come game time. We just don’t know. What we do know right now as outside spectators is Solder has been doing his job.

by Timberg193 on Jan 25, 2012 5:16 PM EST up reply actions

Regardless of who starts

If Vollmer can go, it’d at least give the staff confidence to roll out the 3 TE look some. Not sure I see them deploying that with Cannon at RT. I’d love it if the Pats come out and pound the rock some.