Patriots Safety Tackling Efficiency
by Richard Hill on Jan 26, 2012 4:02 PM EST
in Opinion/Analysis
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Prior to the season, the Patriots made waves by dumping two of their top safeties- and letting a third walk. James Sanders departed to the Atlanta Falcons, Brandon Meriweather went to the Chicago Bears, and Jarrad Page signed with the Philadelphia Eagles. The Patriots were left with a barren cupboard of safeties behind Pat Chung, and the following players have filled in at safety throughout the season:
Nate Jones
Devin McCourty
That's not a good carousel of players. The low level of play from the safety position has been a point of contention amongst Patriots fans, as the cornerbacks have not been able to trust the safeties to, well, be their safety net. Devin McCourty's production fell off the map as he had zero help from the safety position and the Patriots became the worst team in the NFL at defending the big play. That's an issue.
Now that it's towards the end of the season, we can examine two different points:
1. How did the Patriots still make it to the Super Bowl, with the low level of play from their safeties?
2. How did the safeties the Patriots did not elect to bring back perform?
Luckily for us, Pro Football Focus has an answer to at least part of those questions.
Pro Football Focus (PFF) documents all sorts of statistics and while their grading system may not be perfect, they do a stellar job with the numbers. The went through all of the safeties and evaluated their tackling ability by creating a ratio of made tackles:missed tackles. While angles are not taken into account and many safeties resulted in a non-attempt at a tackle, you'll be surprised at some of the names on the list (minimum 175 snaps, 88 players qualify, Chung, Brown, and Ihedigbo are the only Patriots to qualify for the rankings).
A score of 7.8 is the middle of the league at 44th overall.
Coming up in 17th place is the Patriots Pat Chung who missed 4 tackles compared to his 46 successful take downs for a score of 11.5. Chung was the best safety on the Patriots roster and then there's a huge drop off.
Here are the other rankings:
Matthew Slater 9.0 (did take some terrible angles)
Josh Barrett 7.0
Sterling Moore 7.0
Sergio Brown 5.8 (64th place)
James Ihedigbo 5.5 (67th place)
Ross Ventrone 3.0 #MrReally
Oh dear. It seems as if the Patriots got the raw end of the deal as Brown and Ihedigbo- Sanders/Meriweather/Page's replacements- finished around the bottom 25% of the league. Tough luck for Belichick and Co.
But for fun, let's look at how the three former Patriots finished:
James Sanders 6.8 (55th place)
Brandon Meriweather 5.4 (68th place)
Jarrad Page 5.1 (74th place)
Oh. That puts things into perspective. For how terrible the Patriots safeties performed this season, both Meriweather and Page did worse. As in, worse than Sergio Brown bad. As in, wow, they're both in the bottom 20 safeties of league bad.
Sanders finished better in 55th place and would have been an improvement over Ihedigbo and Brown. Here's a table of the production of the safeties, separated by missed tackles in run defense and pass defense:
| Player | Run | Pass | Total |
| Pat Chung | 17.0 | 9.7 | 10.5 |
| James Sanders | 5.3 | 10.0 | 6.8 |
| Sergio Brown | 3.7 | 9.0 | 5.8 |
| James Ihedigbo | 5.8 | 5.3 | 5.5 |
| Brandon Meriweather | 3.0 | 7.0 | 5.4 |
| Jarrad Page | 3.8 | 8.5 | 5.1 |
Comparing those numbers, a Chung-Sanders backfield probably would have been ideal- although Sergio Brown represents a proportional drop-off. It's interesting how bad all of the safeties are, outside of Chung, at defending the run, while Ihedigbo remains at the bottom in defending the pass.
PFF also makes a list of "yards/coverage" which is a result of how many yards allowed per times dropped into coverage. These numbers might surprise you (85 players qualify):
Sergio Brown 0.25 (3rd in the league)
James Ihedigbo 0.68 (50th in the league)
Jarrad Page 0.69 (didn't qualify, projects for 51st)
Pat Chung 0.74 (58th)
James Sanders 0.90 (73th)
Brandon Meriweather 0.91 (76th)
These show that Brown and Ihedigbo were actually much better cover safeties than Sanders and Meriweather. Their main flaws were their ability to read the play as a back-stop and that is derived from a lack of experience. Brown and Ihedigbo were unable to diagnose the play, which leaves other members of the secondary out to dry while in coverage. When given a player to cover and told what to do, they did very well.
So what does this show? It can project that the Patriots could have made it to the Super Bowl with any of these safeties. It also shows that safety is a huge position of need as the depth behind Pat Chung is a bunch of Brandon Meriweathers.
Belichick ends up on top of his roster projections. I'm sure he wouldn't have minded Sanders still on the team, for both his leadership and his ability, although it's not as if Sanders is such a large step above Brown or Ihedigbo.
At the end of the day, I wouldn't be surprised if the Patriots played Devin McCourty at safety for the majority of the Super Bowl.
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I wonder how much playing time affected these stats
Did our replacement safeties log more plays than the ones that left? That might affect the better numbers they had. IIRC, Meriweather sat for quite a few games in Chicago – that must have affected his performance in the few games he did get into.
All safeties missed considerable time.
Brown was benched, Ihedigbo wasn’t expected to play, Chung was injured, Page and Meriweather were so bad they were benched, Sanders was 3rd on the depth chart and didn’t play until another injury.
by Richard Hill on Jan 26, 2012 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
Barrett
going down was bad, Hoodie must have seen him as the starter next to Wang Chung.
It's your thing, do what you wanna do, I can't tell you, who to sock it to. The Isley Brothers
by sweetjesusihatethejets on Jan 26, 2012 4:31 PM EST reply actions
I still don't understand
why we didn’t keep Sanders. God knows we could have used him.
Hes a locker room guy, he caught the game-winning ball for us in the Colts game, he could have really anchored the secondary along with Chung.
Dang. The falcons liked him.
Lakers and Patriots forever.
I think it was more of a salary cap thing.
Don’t know for sure.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
Belichick is looking for a new name for his boat: VI Rings sounds pretty good.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Jan 26, 2012 6:56 PM EST up reply actions
I think that's what they were thinking.
He was also a very poor tackler the season before. Return vs Cost wasn’t there.
by Richard Hill on Jan 26, 2012 6:58 PM EST up reply actions
He wasn't stellar for the Falcons.
I’m not regetful of the Sanders release.
It is what it is
Yeah.
Don’t think he would have been that great of an improvement, if one at all. Still, it’s better than having Slater in the backfield.
by Richard Hill on Jan 27, 2012 1:21 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, it is, but only from an experiance standpoint.
Slater is the better athlete.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
Belichick is looking for a new name for his boat: VI Rings sounds pretty good.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Jan 27, 2012 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
Yep.
But with one year left on Sanders’ contract, I’d argue that his experience outweighs Slaters athleticism for that final year on the contract.
by Richard Hill on Jan 27, 2012 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
I think it was partly a locker room thing...
other guys were practicing and playing harder than Sanders and getting paid less to do it. I think cutting Sanders was a “team building” thing, i.e. transforming the roster from a collection of players into a team.
The secondary is still a weak spot for this team (and would be with Sanders as well), but the defense as a whole is playing in a complimentary way and is a far more cohesive unit than it was at the beginning of the season.
"If you know how to cheat, start now." - Earl Weaver
Sanders always received rave reviews from the coaches and players.
They let him go a week earlier than others so he could find the job he wanted. They definitely respected him.
by Richard Hill on Jan 27, 2012 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
I see it
as more of a “moving on” thing. He probably saw it as Sander’s last year no matter what and between the money and the talent the drop off, that wasn’t so huge, it only made sense to cut bait then. What better way to get young guys experience than to throw their feet into the fire.
God
sometimes I just wonder how this team even made the SB. It is definitely one of our more flawed teams. Better than the 09 team who had no resilience or mental toughness, but man sometimes I just look at some of the guys we have back there (our Safeties are Corners, Our Corners are WRs, our best cover guy is a rookie UFA, our interception leader is another young UFA) and I’m just amazed how we don’t give up 30 pts every game, but then again we haven’t gone up against a really good QB since Manning.
Rex Ryan: "There’s no way that we’re looking to replace Mark Sanchez"
Patriots Nation: "Thank God"
Giants Fans: "FOUR MORE YEARS!! FOUR MORE YEARS!!"
This team is better than 2010 though. lol
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
Ehh not necessarily
The 2010 team probably would have beaten the Broncos and the Ravens if they met them in the playoffs. They would also have a good chance of beating the Giants IMO, because they could always create turnovers and Brady wasn’t going to give you any free-be picks like he did in the Championship Game. The secondary play was also better that year and so was Branch.
Rex Ryan: "There’s no way that we’re looking to replace Mark Sanchez"
Patriots Nation: "Thank God"
Giants Fans: "FOUR MORE YEARS!! FOUR MORE YEARS!!"
2011 Gronk and Herndo are better than 2010 Gronk and Herndo
Spikes is healthier, and playing better
Gerard Warren and Deadrick look great playing next to the other starters in Love and Wilfork.
Mark Anderson
Sterling Moore.
Brian Waters>Dan Connely at RG
Solder looks better than Vollmer. And can play TE.
Welker having a career year.
And Brady typically gives away 14 INTs a year anyways. So this season is fine by his standards. And the defense is stepping up.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
by Jack'sAxe on Jan 27, 2012 9:21 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I would say
QB: 2010 by a lot
RB: Wash (Ridley season is over and Veeren isn’t even used)
WR: 2010
TE: 2011 by a lot
O-line: 2011 by a lot
S: 2010 by a lot
CB: 2010 by a lot
LB: 2011
D-line: 2011 by a lot
The TEs are better, but the offense isn’t necessarily better because Brady isn’t as good as he was last year, and Branch disappears more than ever. The defense has a pass rush but the play in the secondary isn’t as good because of DMC and the lack of safeties. I’m not saying the 2011 team is without a doubt worse, but the 2010 was a more complimentary, and more disciplined squad that got a bad break. The offense very rarely stalled (#1 in pts) and the defense didn’t allow the big play. We shouldn’t just pass that team off as a ok team just because it lost to the Jets
Rex Ryan: "There’s no way that we’re looking to replace Mark Sanchez"
Patriots Nation: "Thank God"
Giants Fans: "FOUR MORE YEARS!! FOUR MORE YEARS!!"
QB: 2010 by a lot
RB: Wash (Ridley season is over and Veeren isn’t even used)
WR: 2010
TE: 2011 by a lot
O-line: 2011 by a lot
S: 2010 by a lot
CB: 2010 by a lot
LB: 2011
D-line: 2011 by a lot
QB: Agreed
RB: Agreed
WR: Disagree. Again, Welker is having his best year as a WR. Although Branch is having a down year, its only because Brady switched his target over to Gronk/Herndo instead. Last year it was Welker, Gronk, and Branch.
TE: Agree
O-line: Agree
S: Agree
CB: Meh. McCourty suffers from the dumb safety syndrome. Now though he is looking up to speed, Arrington is improved from last year, and we got an up and coming in sterling moore.
LB: 2011
D-line: 2011 by a lot
So overall, I still say 2011 is the better team. Not to mention that they are playing for more than themselves, but for Myra. If this team went up against the 2010 team, I think this team would beat them handily.
I never passed them off as okay. I am saying this year is a better team because they are more experienced, hungry, and more talented overall. Yes, 2010 Brady was better. I will agree that the WR in 2010 had a larger ROLE. Doesn’t mean that they are better though. The TEs have the bigger role now for this team, and no defense has been able to really stop them. Welker is also having a career year. And yes, DMC had a down year, but ever since he came back from injury he has gotten slowly better each game. Arrington 2011 is better than Arrington 2010. And we have Sterling Moore now who is an up and coming. I agree about the safeties though.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
I agree they are more talented
but the defense is slightly worse imo
Rex Ryan: "There’s no way that we’re looking to replace Mark Sanchez"
Patriots Nation: "Thank God"
Giants Fans: "FOUR MORE YEARS!! FOUR MORE YEARS!!"
meh. With Andre carter and Mark Anderson
and Love, and Ninko….. not sure. Definitely arguable.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
Brady isn't as good as he was last year?
By what measure?
The only real measure I see is more interceptions this year
but 4 is a ridiculous year that will never happen again. He’s only had less than 12 once before(8 in 2007-8). However he also had more TD’s this year(3 more). Completion percentage a mere.3 better in’10. But yardage this year was off the charts, a record breaking year(after Brees of course), so 77 more attempts, and almost no difference in completion percentage. Not to mention a career best in rushing yards.
2010 probably was better, but I would argue only slightly. I can’t see “a lot better” anywhere. Don’t forget the Defense put him in a lot worse positions this year, and therefore asked him to do more this year.
Well from a pure accuracy perspective
He is off. He has missed A LOT more open receivers this year then he’s had in awhile. He has also played pretty bad against the good teams we’ve faced (Steelers, Cowboys, Ravens, Giants) forcing a lot of throws that weren’t there and just plain not reading the field as well. In all our loses he has played pretty Unbrady-like. He’s still played at a high level, but he’s definitely been a significantly worse QB
Rex Ryan: "There’s no way that we’re looking to replace Mark Sanchez"
Patriots Nation: "Thank God"
Giants Fans: "FOUR MORE YEARS!! FOUR MORE YEARS!!"
I agree, at times he has been a little inconsistent
In the same game he is often looking his best ever, and then not so much. I still can’t say significantly worse, though, because if Rodgers and Brees don’t have ridiculous years, Brady is the best of the rest. 2010 was a stellar year though, and I believe that year, this year and 2007, were his best years, statistically.
Gisele says he only good for three times a day now....
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
Belichick is looking for a new name for his boat: VI Rings sounds pretty good.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Jan 28, 2012 12:09 AM EST up reply actions
She needs to ease up
a few days before the Bowl. It weakens the legs, and we need endurance for that game.
She'll probably switch to one-a-days.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
Belichick is looking for a new name for his boat: VI Rings sounds pretty good.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Jan 28, 2012 9:05 PM EST up reply actions
They should stick to walk throughs couple days before the game
Actually hoping Giselle pulls a Lysistrata, nothing until he brings home the goods on Sunday.
I'd like to see a look at receiver-rankings after our Big-3.
Take out Gronk, Hernandez, and Welker, and what do we have for targets? That’s by far the biggest weakness of our offense, after the Center position, given that the Big-3 all strive mostly between the numbers. The only reason we got to where we are is because of just how great those 3 players happen to be. However once a team goes man-free and clogs up the field between the numbers complete mediocrity seems to grip the Pats Offense.
As it pertains to this Defense, I’m not entirely sold on them. The Giants can be deadly outside and inside the numbers. The Safety position has been a huge weakness all year, followed by LB after the Fletcher/Mayo/Spikes injuries and inconsistency from Ninkovich. That Ballard-TD in Week 9 was given up by Tracy White, a STer. Some of the worst plays of the year were given up by penalties to Sergio Brown or complete ineptitude from Ihedigbo in the backfield. If we didn’t have Sterling Moore playing as a CB, we’d probably be eying this position as well heading into this game wondering how the Pats can or will limit the Giants pass-game. Cruz kills as the 3rd receiver from the slot; are we really going to put Julian Edelman on him and cross our fingers? It’s a serious quesiton.
It is what it is
you can expect those type receivers who have 1st rd talent
who fall to be worth taking as well as FA
Tedy Bruschi- "How do we feel about being AFC Champs?"
Team- "Aww Yeah!!!"
by freeland1787 on Jan 26, 2012 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
Brandon Lloyd.
Draft-wise, Pats will be I think focused on DB, DT/DE, and WR. Maybe Center too. They’ll wait to see who’s available with 27th overall and who’s the best value for that pick that fits a need.
It is what it is
Edelman may not be as bad a Cruz matchup as you think...
I honestly believe that on Edelman matches up against Cruz pretty well. Cruz isn’t significantly taller or stronger than Edelman is (6’/204lbs – 5’10/198lbs) and while it may be hard to believe, Cruz doesn’t beat Edelman by much in the speed department (4.49 40 – 4.52 40). Furthermore, Cruz isn’t particularly known for his hands, so Edelman doesn’t exactly need to have impeccable coverage to have a chance at stopping him. Where Cruz does kill teams is with his quickness and agility, which are arguably Edelman’s best traits. Physically, I see no reason Edelman can’t stay step for step with Cruz, at least long enough to force Manning to throw elsewhere or get hit trying.
I readily admit that Cruz is one of the best WRs in the league, and that he plays a lot faster than his 40 time. It would also be silly to consider Edelman anything more than he is, an overachieving converted QB turned WR and ridiculous to assume that he will be the CB to succeed in shutting down Cruz where so many others have failed. That said, I really believe that strictly physically speaking, Edelman actually matches up with him pretty well. He may not be experienced enough to shut Cruz out, but I do believe he is skilled enough to prevent him from having a big day, which is about all you can ask for.
Cruz isn’t particularly known for his hands
Are you nuts? Cruz has amazing hands. He can make one handed catches nicely when in position to.
And there is more to a WR CB matchup then measureables. Awareness and route running is something stats and numbers cannot tell you. Cruz is tremendous in both of those, and in combination with his hands and quickness make him a matchup nightmare for edelman. Edelman was having trouble with Anquan Boldin. Cruz is MUCH better than Boldin in ever facet. Edelman is not that skilled enough to handle people like Cruz. =/
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
perhaps.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
Cruz has had one good season
Boldin’s been doing it for years
Perhaps wait a while before anointing any “better than” players
by quadruple option on Jan 27, 2012 11:50 PM EST up reply actions
Cruz started for one season. he is more talented, and better than boldin.
I can say that for sure. I know it because I have basically followed him since pre-season. The guys is special. Cruz is better than boldin. Boldin is a good #2. Cruz is a very good #1.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
So… 1 season makes someone better?
This year, Ray Rice has > Adrian Peterson. Ray Rice > Adrian Peterson? You saying that?
If Cruz was a true 1 he’d play outside the numbers, which he NEVER DOES
by quadruple option on Jan 28, 2012 2:58 AM EST up reply actions
OH yeah he does.
look at the first throw in this 9 minute highlight vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_5zpBaJ9V8
And there is more too.
Ray Rice has played for more than one year. This is not his first year playing. In his first year, I knew that Ray Rice was not better than AP. Just like I know that Cruz, in his first year, is better than Boldin.
I have seen him make one handed catches. Seen him make catches EVERYWHERE on the field. he has very good YAC, very good vision and concentration, he is quick, and is a great route runner with good speed. Cruz is a special player. I can safely say, without a doubt in my being that Cruz is WAY better than Boldin. I don’t care how long Boldin was playing in this league. he is a #2 WR. Cruz is a #1 WR that has superstar potential, and that is extremely apparent after watching him in pre-season and some games in the regular season. hell, he has probably made an impact in every game he played in. he is special.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
I'll list some marks where eli threw t him outside the numbers
2:07
2:23
3:30
4:30
5:29
6:49
7:30
And the rest is pictures and stats. I recommend you watch the entire vid and not just those numbers though. You can clearly see that Cruz is extremely talented. imo, he is a lot better than Boldin because he can do pretty much everything boldin does better. He has uch better skills, and a much higher ceiling. Cruz>>>>>>> Boldin
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
I’m not going to pull film of every giants game, but from what I’ve seen and what I’ve read here and on other sites, Cruz SELDOM lines up wide and is almost ALWAYS in the slot. He may finish outisde the #s but he isn’t lining up and beating press, which is how #1s earn their pay
by quadruple option on Jan 29, 2012 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
He IS liningup on the outside though!
In the beginning of the season, he wasn’t at first. But he worked his way into the #1 role lining up outside. Sometimes they line him up inside because they have two other very good WRs and they can create mismatches (like how we put Herndo or Gronk on the outside and Welker in the inside). But he does line up outside.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
Boldin has done it for longer and in two different systems
Cruz has done it for one year, and is more of a system player in that he thrives in the giants’ pseudo run n shoot offense
A system player?
He runs every type of route in the giants playbook. He goes underneath, outside, over the middle, and deep. Im pretty sure he can thrive in any offense.
I understand the experience, but im talking about RIGHT NOW. RIGHT better player than Boldin is because of what I said above.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
So if you earn $10,000 in the last 5 minutes, and I earned $5,000, but I already had $100,000 in the bank, you are now richer?
Your definition of better is flawed.
by quadruple option on Jan 29, 2012 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
Your analogy is flawed.
We aren’t talking about money, we are talking about skill. Let me make one:
If you’ve served a company for years, but your skills start to dwindle, and this new up and coming guy comes in, and starts doing the work better than you are, who do you think I would hire? The guy with experience, or the guy who has better skill than you?
Cruz>>>>Boldin
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
RIGHT NOW, Cruz is better than Boldin.
Because of:
he has very good YAC, very good vision and concentration, he is quick, and is a great route runner with good speed. Cruz is a special player. I can safely say, without a doubt in my being that Cruz is WAY better than Boldin. I don’t care how long Boldin was playing in this league. he is a #2 WR. Cruz is a #1 WR that has superstar potential, and that is extremely apparent after watching him in pre-season and some games in the regular season. hell, he has probably made an impact in every game he played in. he is special.
We don’t know what will happen next year, but signs point to Cruz still making an impact on the Giants receiving core.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
If he's such a complete player
Why was he undrafted? Just two years ago, no one in the NFL thought he had the requisite skills to make it in the league. He’s worked incredibly hard since then and has become much improved, yes, but he is still the same player that had a very specific skill set which matched up with the Giants’ offense, which is quite different from other pro passing games. And how could you so confidently say he’s such a complete receiver who can run all the routes in the giants playbook? Do you somehow have a copy of the Giants’ playbook?
We have just 16 games (less than that, considering he only started to feature in the offense after the first month or so) of production from cruz. Who knows if teams will start gameplanning for him properly next year and he becomes irrelevant again. But Boldin right now is an established veteran who has done it with different QBs, different coaches, different teams, against probably every coverage and adjustment that coaches have cooked up to stop him, not to mention constant double teams since signing with the ravens.
Cruz may continue his current upward trajectory and become a star in this league. But I don’t know that, and neither do you unless you can look into the future. So RIGHT NOW, Boldin has to be considered the superior player, until we see more of Cruz.
All I know is that number one position of need for Patriots in the upcoming draft is a talented Safety who can play either SS or FS.
Drafting a talented CB is just as good since they will likely be able to play any defensive back position.,
If the Patriots can put two solid and talented Safety’s on the field, it will create a formidable defense as good or better than Ravens.
They could use DT/DE help, too.
It is what it is
better than the ravens?
Slow down prioris let’s just get a defense that isn’t ranked in the 20s first. A defense like the Ravens takes years to build.
Rex Ryan: "There’s no way that we’re looking to replace Mark Sanchez"
Patriots Nation: "Thank God"
Giants Fans: "FOUR MORE YEARS!! FOUR MORE YEARS!!"
And a core to build around.
Mayo/Spikes/WIlfork could be that core, but it’ll take at least 2 more seasons to put the rest in place (and at that point, we might be watching the SS Wilfork steam off into retirement).
"Every time I call it a game, you call it a business. Every time I call it a business, you call it a game."
"The longer they play, the more they lose. In the end, we get it all."
by JohnHannahRules on Jan 27, 2012 7:58 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not convinced that any of the safeties are worth a 1st round draft pick.
Pats can find a good one with one of their two 2nd round picks.
27th overall will be based entirely on value; the best talent available that addresses a need. Those are WRs, DBs, DT/DE, and Center.
It is what it is
Mark barron isnt worth a late round pick ?
by alweezy61 on Jan 27, 2012 12:23 AM EST via Android app reply actions
if he slipped that far
there is some red flag that BB would pick up
Tedy Bruschi- "How do we feel about being AFC Champs?"
Team- "Aww Yeah!!!"
by freeland1787 on Jan 27, 2012 1:14 AM EST up reply actions
Barron is currently projected as a late 1st, early 2nd
I’d be ok with taking him with one of our numerous first 2 day picks, but if we want him, those are the picks we would have to use. He isn’t making it anywhere near day 3.
I don't think Barron is worth a 1st round pick.
Not yet, anyways. Maybe after the Combine I’ll change my mind.
Pats should use 1st round picks to either trade back into next year(with hopes they get a better placement in the 1st round) or get the best talent available that fits a need. DB, DT/DE, WR, C. I’d put WR at #1 but it’s likely we’ll land Brandon Lloyd and/or Reggie Wayne in FA.
It is what it is
Harrison Smith
is impressing scouts at the senior bowl practices
"Thirty-seven points on the best defense in the league, suck my d–k" - Bill Belichick
'You are banned from Gang Green Nation'
"You can browse the blog, but you can't participate."
"BANNED LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
by BostonBeasts on Jan 27, 2012 1:18 AM EST via Android app reply actions
i like him more than barron
Tedy Bruschi- "How do we feel about being AFC Champs?"
Team- "Aww Yeah!!!"
by freeland1787 on Jan 27, 2012 1:21 AM EST up reply actions
Yaa just read his scouting report very nice could be worth a late second round pick
by alweezy61 on Jan 27, 2012 1:26 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
id take him w/ the raiders pick
Tedy Bruschi- "How do we feel about being AFC Champs?"
Team- "Aww Yeah!!!"
by freeland1787 on Jan 27, 2012 1:30 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed,
he may not show up as such now but he’s probably the 2nd best Safety available, if not the 1st. Barron is a bit risky. We’ll see how it unfolds but I’d take him in the mid-2nd in a heartbeat. After Smith I’d probably say Iloka, but I wouldn’t use a mid-2nd round pick for him. Would maybe use the late-2nd pick.
It is what it is
btw a ban from gang green nation is a badge of honor
Tedy Bruschi- "How do we feel about being AFC Champs?"
Team- "Aww Yeah!!!"
by freeland1787 on Jan 27, 2012 1:21 AM EST up reply actions
Leggy. Out of the league in 3 years or solely a ST ace
by quadruple option on Jan 27, 2012 11:54 PM EST up reply actions
The tackling figures are shameful, but there's something else to take into consideration.
It’s been a revolving door at almost every position grouping for the Patriots’ defense until the last 2-3 weeks of the season. The linebacking corps was eviscerated by the loss of Spikes and the injury to Fletcher. They became very poor against the run. With poor linebacking play, safeties instinctively start to creep up. Then they get burned over the top (especially if they’re merely serviceable to begin with). Our rush was nearly absent through the first 1/2 of the year; poor rush from the front means the LB’s and safety corps have to cover longer. Up front, aside from Vince and Love (hey — how about the season Love had?), it’s been a wandering wall with Deaderick and Brace missing significant time, the Haynesworth experiment failing, Ellis a shadow of what we expected.
My point is: Complimentary play on defense is no less necessary than offensive cohesion. You can make up for a lot of player deficiencies on an individual level if your units are consistent and made up of disciplined, football-smart players. I’m not saying our current lineup are world beaters (though I believe Chung has all-pro potential). But with the consistency and discipline they’ve (mostly) shown over the past few weeks, they might be Giant-killers.
At least I hope so.
"Every time I call it a game, you call it a business. Every time I call it a business, you call it a game."
"The longer they play, the more they lose. In the end, we get it all."
by JohnHannahRules on Jan 27, 2012 7:56 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
All good points.
I wonder if one of the motivations for BB to move McCourty over to playing snaps at Safety these last few games is because he is such a good tackler?
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
I think he probably analyzed the problem the same way we did.
McCourty is fast, has good ball skills, and understands the defense. None of his other actual safeties fit that bill as well.
On the flip side, McCourty was having trouble as a cover corner this year at least in part because he wasn’t getting adequate safety help. BB probably decided that, while he had a stable of adequate corners, he did not have a stable of adequate safeties. Any corner put in McCourty’s position would struggle the same way he had without an upgrade in the middle. But moving McC to the middle was an upgrade that could make barely adequate corners more serviceable.
At the end of the day, it may have been an on-paper downgrade at one position, but on the field, it plays as an overall upgrade. McC is probably a better corner than he is a safety — IF he has an adequate safety behind him. Player X probably isn’t as good a corner as McC, but with McC at safety (rather than a player of lesser awareness and discipline), the combination of McC at FS and Player X at CB is an upgrade overall.
That he happens to be a good tackler is a nice bonus.
"Every time I call it a game, you call it a business. Every time I call it a business, you call it a game."
"The longer they play, the more they lose. In the end, we get it all."
by JohnHannahRules on Jan 27, 2012 12:39 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
He might be a better corner next year
if he can improve his technique as it pertains to getting beat over the top.
It is what it is
McCourty also might benefit
from not being taken out by the Safety.
Tackling has been poor across the league, this year.
Thanks to a limit of 14 full-contact practices over 17 weeks (and one per week in the playoffs, except during bye weeks), players had almost no opportunity to work on their fundamentals in real-time. I think we’ve seen a lot of poor fundamentals this season – not just in tackling, but also in blocking and catching passes.
Tackling fundamentals are taught with the bag though
Tackling humans is just an injury waiting to happen
QO
(speaking from years of rugby union, rugby league, and american football experience)
by quadruple option on Jan 27, 2012 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
Wish we could get Devin's numbers
Even though he has limited snaps at safety, it would be nice to see his ratio.
Ihedigbo is on the field way too often IMO. He bites on every play-action fake, leaving the middle and deep part of the field wide open. And he’s not adding much to run tackling anyway.
It seems the Patriots have really focused on stopping the run first and dealing with the consequences of the passing game. Can’t argue with results, but we might have to give the Giants air attack a little more credit and the run less. Bradshaw won’t be 100% – he’s the one that actually scares me the most. Jacobs is only good running vertical, which is where Vince and Love roam. So when he gets the ball, he’s going to have it rough up the middle or he’ll have to move laterally. This is what you want him to do. The LBs will have time to close and wrap him up. Ward is OK, but if he was better than Jacobs or a 80% Bradshaw, he would be in more than he has.
McCourty's overall safety numbers:
Run – 4.5
Pass – no score because he hasn’t missed a tackle
Overall – 6.0
Coverage – 1 reception, 4 attempts, 6 yards, 0.09 yards/cover snap.
His whole season numbers (inc. CB/S)
Coverage – 63 receptions on 105 targets, 1010 yards, 1.65 yards/cover route (3rd worst in league. Don’t worry though, Kyle Arrington was 6th worst in the league)
Run – 5.0
Pass – 11.5
Combined – 8.5, 30th in the league out of 61. So average tackler.
Arrington actually finished 2nd in their tackling efficiency with an overall score of 19.8. Missed two tackles in the passing game for a score of 32.5, which is incredible.
by Richard Hill on Jan 27, 2012 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
Great, thanks!
I wonder if Edelman will be on Cruz in the SB. It would be nice to have Arrington and Moore at CB stopping deep routes and Edelman on Cruz, with McCourty roaming the middle. Edelman may lose some ground on sharp cuts, but he closes quickly.
IIRC his combine numbers for agility were in Revis-range.
Someone double-check me on that.
"Every time I call it a game, you call it a business. Every time I call it a business, you call it a game."
"The longer they play, the more they lose. In the end, we get it all."
by JohnHannahRules on Jan 27, 2012 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
His short-shuttle was great.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit
by Comedic.Sans on Jan 28, 2012 8:28 PM EST up reply actions
thats after the Wr ran about 15 yards
Kyle Has sucked this post season
"Thirty-seven points on the best defense in the league, suck my d–k" - Bill Belichick
'You are banned from Gang Green Nation'
"You can browse the blog, but you can't participate."
"BANNED LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
by BostonBeasts on Jan 27, 2012 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
15 yards?
I haven’t seen a WR go more than 5 yards before McCourty tackles him (that’s if McCourty was covering the guy).
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
lol i was talking about arrington
"Thirty-seven points on the best defense in the league, suck my d–k" - Bill Belichick
'You are banned from Gang Green Nation'
"You can browse the blog, but you can't participate."
"BANNED LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
by BostonBeasts on Jan 27, 2012 7:46 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Okay a couple times I've seen that.....
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
Neither team was satisfied with their tackling on Sunday
Both the Ravens and Patriots sidelines had coaches and players imploring their team to “tackle!” or “F’n tackle” (that was from Belichick).
Keep the faith!
It was like, "Don't just drop your pads into them, you've got to f'n tackle them!"
That thing where you hit a guy and hope he falls over is BS. It’s one thing if you cut his legs out from under him, but another to hope he falls over. Edelman actually wraps up, and he’s new to that side of the ball.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
Belichick is looking for a new name for his boat: VI Rings sounds pretty good.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Jan 27, 2012 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
They should just say "Spike" them!
a la Brandon Spikes. I think they will know what you are talking about.
Better to wrap and give up 2 more yards than go for the KO and end up missing
by quadruple option on Jan 27, 2012 11:56 PM EST up reply actions
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