The Tom Brady vs. Eli Manning Debate
by Greg Knopping on Jan 31, 2012 12:00 PM EST
in Opinion/Analysis
Email
Print
In the past week leading up to the Super Bowl, one of the common debates has been Tom Brady vs. Eli Manning and which quarterback has the advantage.
While Tom Brady clearly has the better resume, many members of the media are going with Eli Manning because of his "confidence," his "weapons," and his ability "to produce in the clutch." While many in the media are saying they think Eli has the edge based on the match-ups in this game, some are going as far as to declare Eli the better overall quarterback. Just look at what Mike Lupica of the NY Daily News recently had to say:
This is no longer about who's an elite quarterback, who's not, we have talked that one to death all season. This is about more than that, something more important: Who the best quarterback is right now. For my money it is Eli Manning. He is the quiet younger brother to Peyton Manning, who all of a sudden has turned himself into a rock star.
Wait a 'sec? So the Eli Manning who lost seven games this year is better than Tom Brady, who threw for the second most yards in NFL history and 39 touchdowns while playing with significantly less explosive receivers (and for now, we're even forgetting Brady's storied past)?
Don't get me wrong, Eli Manning is playing at an extremely high level at the moment. He can move around in the pocket, isn't afraid to take any hit, and can deliver any throw. But Eli doesn't have the accuracy or the focused demeanor of Tom Brady. He doesn't have the ability to dissect a defense the way Brady does, and he throws up a lot of risky throws.
A Breakdown of Tom Brady's "Clutch" 2011 Moments After the Jump!
And while Eli Manning may be great in the clutch, it's not as if Tom Brady isn't. In fact, during the 2011 regular season, Tom Brady delivered many clutch moments. Lets recap them now:
- Week 3 at Buffalo Bills: Down 31-24 in the fourth, Brady leads the Patriots' offense 71 yards in 15 plays, and has a clutch six yard touchdown pass on fourth down to Wes Welker with just three minutes remaining. Defense blows the lead in final seconds, Brady never gets the ball back.
- Week 6 vs. Dallas Cowboys: Trailing by three with just over two minutes remaining, Brady leads the offense 80 yards in 10 plays, taking the lead on a touchdown throw to Aaron Hernandez that left just seconds on the clock.
- Week 9 vs. New York Giants: Patriots score 17 fourth quarter points in comeback bid, with the team taking the lead with less than two minutes to play on a 4th and 8 Tom Brady to Rob Gronkowski strike over the middle for a touchdown. Defense then blows another late lead.
- Week 16 vs. Miami Dolphins: With the Patriots down 17-0 at halftime, Brady helps lead a heroic comeback, with the Patriots erasing the deficit and hanging on to win 27-24 with a late Brady-to-Welker third down conversion.
- Week 17 vs. Buffalo Bills: The Patriots quickly fall to a 21-0 deficit in the first quarter, then are led back by Brady, who threw for three touchdowns as the Patriots went on to win 49-21.
Eli Manning has really earned my respect for his tough, gritty play in the clutch during the 2011 season. But that doesn't mean he is the better quarterback - Tom Brady has proven to be clutch as well.
There's a good chance that Super Bowl XLVI could come down to whichever team has the ball last. If that's the case, I would trust Tom Brady just as much as I would trust Eli Manning with the game on the line.
120 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Brady's always better
People never question Tom’s leadership, they fear him late in the fourth, and everyone’s game plan is the same when they play the Pats, eat up clock and keep Brady off the field. The same can’t, and never has been said about Eli.
Only clueless outsiders would ever question Eli's leadership...
He is everything you want in a leader he’s just not in your face about it. Brady bickers at his line (see SB42) when he’s getting hit and isn’t the same QB. On the other hand Eli took a beaten last Sunday and never barked at his line and they all mention how much they appreciate it. IMO that is a leader. Everyone can lead when things are going good, it’s when things go south you find out what you’re made of.
FIRE Perry Fewell
by bleedblue12 on Jan 31, 2012 4:26 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Lol yup a wimp...
Maybe he should whine and cry at the line like Brady! Complain to the ref….don’t you know I’m Tom Brady I’m not allowed to get hit!!
FIRE Perry Fewell
by bleedblue12 on Jan 31, 2012 4:34 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
See Peyton Manning vs Jeff Saturday
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsGTW_VVTkE
Do you question his brother’s leadership because he barked at his line?
Yes I always have....
He losses his composer in big games when things go south. That’s why he’s the greatest REGULAR season QB ever and shrinks in the clutch. He’ll likely end his career with a losing playoff record.
FIRE Perry Fewell
by bleedblue12 on Jan 31, 2012 4:43 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
This is a first
Someone has question The Peyton Manning’s leadership… Did you see the Colts this year, without him?
Yes I did...
What does that have to do with leadership? Did you see the Pats without Brady?! 11-5 not to bad, Cassel must be a great leader huh?! Working out great in KC. If Eli got hurt the Giants would be in the same boat as the Colts.
FIRE Perry Fewell
by bleedblue12 on Jan 31, 2012 4:50 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
What example did Cassel have to follow behind?
Oh yeah, it was Brady who lead by example. Not to mention Cassel had the best Head Coach in the game.
So Peyton didn't lead by example?!
You’re splitting hairs here bro.
FIRE Perry Fewell
by bleedblue12 on Jan 31, 2012 4:56 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Don't get it twisted
Peyton’s front office never saw an injury of that kind in his future and never put a decent backup behind him. Cassel was a decent plan B, the guys behind Manning couldn’t lead a high school team to a state championship. That’s the front office’s fault.
lol. Wow. I thought your “who gets hit and doesn’t say anything” argument was ridiculous, but now you are saying a seventh round draft pick that took 2 snaps in COLLEGE was the Pats “solid backup plan”? I understand why you are kidding yourself here, the fact that said QB won 11 games kind of diminishes Brady’s value, so you have have to hype it up as much as possible, but come on man. your arguments are weak.
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
It's not like it was the guys first year on the team
He was groomed as a backup for 3-4 years. So yeah, if the coaches did their job properly in not only coaching the guy but properly assessing his ability to run the offense, then yes he was a solid backup plan. It’s not like the team didn’t have higher draft pick QBs that he eventually beat out.
It says one of two things. 1) they got extremely lucky, or 2) Any qb can be at least decent in Belichicks system.
There’s no way you can convince anyone that a QB with 2 college snaps was a “solid backup plan”.
But still, I have never been able to understand Patriots fans obsession with discrediting every QB not named Brady. They conveniently ignore circumstances for both Brady and whoever they want to call “lucky”.
The whole week before the game against the Giants this regular season, I saw many people on here being snarky with comments like “Lets see how elite he is” and things of that nature, then after he scores two touchdowns in like 3 minutes, and wins the game, all those comments turned to “he got lucky again”
The Peyton comments are the tastiest though. He’s a “playoff choker” But lets ignore the fact that Peyton was a number one pick and made number 1 money his whole career. Compare that to when the Pats won their 3 SB’s. Brady was making like 500k base plus some bonuses. Then when he started making Peyton type money, they haven’t won since. Manning has been covering deficiencies his whole career, while Brady was part of a complete team when they won.
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
by FrankWyt on Feb 1, 2012 1:48 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
First off, why is it only one of those two things. Are you suggesting the only way the talent evaluators of the patriots staff could only possibly get a late round pick right is if they got lucky? Why isn’t it the fact that they are just good at their jobs. The fact that Cassell went to KC and helped them get to the playoffs with lesser talent proves that it isn’t just “Belichick’s system”.
Here you are back generalizing about all Pats fans again. We don’t all discredit everyone not named Brady but we do have deal with the constant comparisons all the freaking time because that is all everyone wants to talk about. First its P. Manning v Brady, then its Brady v Brees v Manning, then its Brady v Rodgers v Brees, now we have to deal with Eli v Brady. It makes me sick as much as it probably does you. When the article went up on this site about Manning v Brady this week, my first thought was “Really? Did we really need to go there?” But you know what these comparisons aren’t all fabricated by Patriots fans, it’s all anyone in the media ever seems to want to talk about. Don’t pretend that other team’s fans are any less cocky about their QB or disparaging about other QBs.
If we went to a Ravens or your beloved Steelers site all we would hear about is how Brady is a pansy, all he does is cry. Oh look out Brady got touched that is against the rules…blah blah blah.
If you go to another team’s page you are probably going to read some homer crap on it and you are probably going to read some stuff about rival teams of theirs that you may find distasteful or untrue but if it bothers you that much don’t frequent their site. It’s bad enough we have dealt with a bunch of sensitive Giant fans this week defending every little slight said against their team in EVERY post.
Clearly I have gotten off topic and I am way too tired to get back on track.
Well, I guess the reason there are only two options in my mind is because there are exactly zero seventh round draft picks with less than 5 snaps played in college before or after Cassell that have done anything significant in the NFL at it’s most important position. I am aware that Belichick is good at his job, but that doesn’t mean that Cassell wasn’t luck, or just another product of his ingenious system.
Cassell was dragged along in most Chiefs fans I know’s opinions. It had more to do with their number 1 rushing attack. I think it’s pretty clear to most people that Belichick pulled off one of the greatest heists since Dallas fleeced Minnesota.
I’m not sure what you mean about “generalizing again”, as I don’t really remember doing it before (not saying I haven’t, just don’t remember it, I don’t normally generalize like that)
As far as other fan bases, just off my own observations, it does appear that Pats fans are a bit overzealous about it, in general. I would say that the fans of teams who have QB’s in the conversation, it’s probably worse. (G.B, Indy, N.O, N.Y).
As far as what you’d hear at a Baltimore or Pittsburgh site, it would probably be evenly divided. I know for sure that it’s that way on our site. But the one thing is, everyone can come to terms with the fact that Brady is a great QB. It seems like a lot of people here can’t come to terms with the fact that there are other great QB’s besides Brady.
And for your last point, I’m fully aware of that, but does it mean I can’t have a back and forth with someone on an issue? Is it not possible/unwelcome to have an objective conversation?
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
It started as a back and forth on an issue and then you devolved it into attacking Pats fans. So there you go.
Ok, well if you consider that comment about Pats fans discrediting other QB’s an attack, then I’m sorry. Would it be better if I said “a lot of….” first?. I mean, if it was one person, that’s one thing, but I’ve seen it a lot. I understand not every Pats fan feels that way, and I should have been clearer about it, but I would hope you would know that I didn’t literally mean every one of you.
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
Hey, Frank
Matt Flynn (and his 480-yard 6 TD performance) say hello. Proof Aaron Rodgers is nothing more than an overrated system QB, obviously.
How funny is it that one single player is catching up to your storied franchise’s total number of Super Bowls?
Can I Scream?
Not really sure how those two scenarios are similar. Flynn had one good game, not an entire season.
How funny is it? It’s not at all, he’s not the first QB to win 4 (if he does), 31 teams are trying to catch up.
There are actually a couple things in your comment that are funny though.
1) “one single player”. I wasn’t aware Brady played defenses 1 on 11. Seems impossible to me.
2) You want to go the single player route I see, well then, Bradshaw already has four, so if anything, that’s what Brady is chasing from a personal standpoint. (Bradshaw was also 4-0)
3) How defensive you always are. Over here, it’s understandable, it’s your site. But what’s weird is that you go to other peoples sites to be defensive as well. Seems insecure to me.
4) Your insistence that I am calling Brady an over rated system QB. I believe this is another one of those ego defense mechanisms. Similar to how you pop up at other teams sites to “correct” people that call the Pats cheaters. It kind of seems you really feel that way about Brady deep down. You shouldn’t confuse acknowledging that QB’s like Manning and Manning are elite QB’s just like Brady as slighting Brady.
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
Here you are back generalizing about all Pats fans again. We don’t all discredit everyone not named Brady but we do have deal with the constant comparisons all the freaking time because that is all everyone wants to talk about. First its P. Manning v Brady, then its Brady v Brees v Manning, then its Brady v Rodgers v Brees, now we have to deal with Eli v Brady. It makes me sick as much as it probably does you. When the article went up on this site about Manning v Brady this week, my first thought was "Really? Did we really need to go there?" But you know what these comparisons aren’t all fabricated by Patriots fans, it’s all anyone in the media ever seems to want to talk about. Don’t pretend that other team’s fans are any less cocky about their QB or disparaging about other QBs.
This….
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
Frank. You are a great debater but this is stupid.
1) they got extremely lucky, or 2) Any qb can be at least decent in Belichicks system.
Perhaps it was luck but its still doesn’t discount that we groomed him for 3-4 years. And any QB can be at least decent in BB’s system? Then why havent guys like Kevin O’Connel and Matt guiterrierez not do anything? If you say that Cassel was great to begin with he wasn’t. Us pats fans have wanted his head for his first 3 years because helooked like he sucked, and we wondered why he was still on the team. And now KC fans want him off the team. Kind of speaks volumes how those two points are not meaning crap.
There’s no way you can convince anyone that a QB with 2 college snaps was a "solid backup plan".
It was after we groomed him.
Manning has been covering deficiencies his whole career, while Brady was part of a complete team when they won.
Not true. Manning has had all star WRs virtually his entire successful career with Harrison and Wayne, and even Clark at TE. Not to mention his OL was always superb, and his defense was a great pass rushing unit who were decent in coverage and against the run. I want to say they had a top 5 or 10 defense in two or three years with manning at QB. Brady won games with no name players as his arsenal, with a good OL, and their defense was top 10 in…… 3 years? When Brady was given weapons he broke out into 2007 numbers. Then he got injured after that of course….. 2009 he was still iffy but put up his second best year anyways, 2010 he beat that year, and 2011 is a slight downfall, but can be argued he had a better year as well.
But bottom line the whole manning vs. brady talk is all subjective. I agree with everything else you say. Eli is a great QB and deserves to be in the top 5, or even top 3 now that his brother is facing a major injury.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
I would never say Cassell was already good, quite the opposite. I’m saying Belichick can turn bad/average players in to Pro Bowlers, and really really good players into all time greats. That’s how he was able to get what he got for Cassell.
Manning has had all star WRs virtually his entire successful career with Harrison and Wayne
Check those WR’s stats. None of them were anywhere near as good before or after their time with Manning. Harrison didn’t do much of anything until Manning got there. Reggie Wayne has had him his whole career, so we don’t know yet. But look at the other names. Brandon Stokely, Jerrome Pathon, Austin Collie, Anthony Gonzalez, Pierre Garcon, and many many more. They all have the same thing in common. The weren’t much of anything before or after their time with Manning.
As far as the O line thing…come on. Yes, their O line was good, just like the Pats line, but what he’s covering up for is stuff like…not being able to stop the run (which they magically learned to do juuust long enough for him to get a SB)
Weak corners, weak LB’s (save for a couple here and there).
The defense had one year where they were ranked high in PPG (2) but total defense was in the 20’s. And they were ranked in total d higher than 5th once, but almost every other year they were somewhere between the middle and the bottom in both.
People always want to discredit Manning and it’s for one reason, and that’s a team accomplishment, not an individual one. I’m not trying to argue who’s greater, because it’s a dumb argument. All I’m saying is using SB wins to claim Brady is better is silly because the situations are different. Those “no name” players you talk about, all performed very well under a certain genius that can make other team’s rejects look amazing.
I guess what I don’t understand is why they can’t both (or all three in this case) be great. Because they all are.
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
So Cassel takes a 16-0 team to 11-5
that’s proof? The only thing cassel did well was listening to McDaniels. Randy Moss was actually a leader of the lockerroom that year.
No, but saying thinking they’d go 16-0 again is kind of crazy. But what is proof, is that the backup QB with no real game experience since high school only managed 1.3 wins less than the average in the Brady era.
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
Oh please
At worse they probably would have gone 13-3 that year. They certainly could have went 16-0 again. Look at who they played that year compared to who they played the year before. They literally went from the hardest schedule in the NFL to the weakest. They played both West Divisions (divisions notorious for having 8-8 be the division winner) that year, the Bills, split with NY and the Dolphins (who were a 1 win team the year before).
Your saying no QB who is half-way decent with multiple years in the same system could manage to win 11 games on a team that went 18-1 before? Matt Cassel could certainly win 11 games if you put him on the say 08 Steelers and they just happened to have the weakest schedule in football that year. Same if you put him on the Packers or the Saints. I mean the Steelers didn’t miss a beat with Dennis Dixion out there at QB and i think he even beat the Ravens that year.
Rex Ryan: "There’s no way that we’re looking to replace Mark Sanchez"
Patriots Nation: "Thank God"
Giants Fans: "FOUR MORE YEARS!! FOUR MORE YEARS!!"
Indeed. All great points too.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
I’m sure they would have been good, there is no doubt, but schedule difficulty isn’t the end all be all. The Pats had a lot of situations where if there was a bounce to be had, it went there way (much like any team that wins 14 or more games, and/or wins it all)
Your saying no QB who is half-way decent with multiple years in the same system could manage to win 11 games on a team that went 18-1 before?
Yes and no. Even the worst backup QB’s in the NFL actually played in college. Yes, he was in the system for 2 or 3 seasons, but he almost never saw the field. I do not believe that Cassell would have done anything positive on any team other than a Belichick team. The guy is a genius and can make something out of absolutely nothing. (Eddelman and Woodhead, for instance)
As far as if he would have been successful on the Steelers in 08, no, he wouldn’t have. He would not be able to overcome the line deficiencies.
And what the hell are you talking about “easiest schedule”? The Steelers schedule that season was considered one of the toughest schedules in NFL history. It was a big story the whole year, so where are you getting your information from?
There is no way to tell if Cassell could be good anywhere, the only things we know is that he was good enough to NE to get some dumb ass to invest 60 million on him that will most likely not pay dividends.
Also, the Steelers absolutely missed a beat in the one game Dixon started against the Ravens. He threw a crucial interception to seal the game for Balt, and he missed about 6 wide open receivers on the day. In his other start he was ok, but running the ball effectively won the game against ATl
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
But he has been good
last year he had 27 tds with 7 ints. Did he just get lucky again? The reason that team struggled so much this year offensively is one of their best outlets (Tony Moeaki) and their best RB Charles went down with injury. That is certainly enough to hamstring any offense. Maybe not everyone is sold on his ability to be a starter but certainly a backup which was the whole basis of this discussion.
I said if the 08 Steelers had
the easiest schedule in football that year. They had the hardest and went 12-4, but if they had the easiest they could probably win 11 games with any decent guy out there. I mean look at the games Dennis Dixon and Charlie batch played. They didn’t have to play extraordinary for the Steelers to win those games. But they won any because they were better than the teams they were playing and the one good team they faced they just barely lost too (with a back-up out there). Matt Cassel could have produced 9 pts at home vs ATL with Mendenhall doing the rest.
And he certainly could overcome the O-line in Pitsburgh. Much of the reason behind them giving up so many sacks is because Roethlisberger holds on to the ball waay to long trying to make that extra play. That’s just his style of play and most of the time it works out for the Steelers, but his O-line takes a lot of blame for giving up those sacks. Not saying his O-line is great, not even suggesting his O-line is good but it better then the numbers suggest.
And you are basing your whole argument as to why Cassel is a bad QB on Cassel’s COLLEGE CAREER, not what he did on 2 different NFL Teams, but what he did (or didn’t do) in college. You pretty much saying Cassel sucks because he couldn’t beat out the Heisman Trophy Winner and #1 Overall Pick in Carson Palmer and another Heisman Trophy Winner and #10 Overall Pick in Matt Lineart in practice. Do you see what’s wrong with that logic? Yes he didn’t play in college, but that doesn’t necessarily mean he’s a bad QB if he’s competing with guys that would be considered the best players in college football. If he played and was benched for sucking then that’s one thing, but if he was just never given the opportunity then that’s another.
Rex Ryan: "There’s no way that we’re looking to replace Mark Sanchez"
Patriots Nation: "Thank God"
Giants Fans: "FOUR MORE YEARS!! FOUR MORE YEARS!!"
While it is true that Roethlisberger takes sack as a result of holding on to the ball, it is also true that he moves around because of how quickly the blocking breaks down. A strictly pocket QB like Cassell would never make it. Most Steelers fans that watch games are able to recognize sacks taken because of poor protection and sacks taken due to holding the ball too long. It’s certainly a combination of both, with both being near equal.
I suppose I am basing my argument on that, but can you name me even one other successful NFL QB that didn’t even play in college? College FB is the minor leagues of the NFL. That’s how teams discover who can help their team. Cassell was selected because the Pats got wind that Chow wanted to draft him. It was a seventh round pick, so they had nothing to lose.
I’ve seen what he’s done on two NFL teams. He was a product of the genius’ system on one team, then had misleading stats on another.
But I’m not really saying he sucks because of that, I’m saying the Patriots were lucky because he didn’t suck as bad as every other team thought he did. There is no way that the organization though to themselves “this is our solid back up plan should Brady go down” . Which was someone on here’s original argument.
But as to your point about whether he sucks or not based on not being able to take Leinarts job. Yes…that really does mean he sucked. Just like Reggie Bush, knowledgeable football questioned Leinart’s ability to succeed in the NFL. This comes back to the “system” argument some acknowledge and some don’t.
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
good god this sounds delusional
if they didn’t think he was capable of playing at the NFL level they would have never drafted him. Even in the 7th round they want people with the potential to play for the team. Did they think he would be able to play right off the bat, no. That is why he was the 3rd QB on the depth chart. You call them lucky, I call them good at identifying talent. Nobody here is trying to say he is a probowler but to suggest he magically had two quality seasons because of everything but his abilities is demented.
Now you are saying Matt Lineart was a bad college QB based on what he did in his NFL Career? O c’mon the guy won the Heisman Trophy and was the 10th player selected in the draft. He was a good college QB and an good NFL prospect. He had the talent but his lack of work ethic and dedication to the game is what made him a bust like many other talented QBs. He just didn’t always suck from the start like you are implying. No system can give QBs the essential skills needed to have success.
Rex Ryan: "There’s no way that we’re looking to replace Mark Sanchez"
Patriots Nation: "Thank God"
Giants Fans: "FOUR MORE YEARS!! FOUR MORE YEARS!!"
LOL
"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle
by BigBlueIntervention on Jan 31, 2012 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
Only clueless outsiders would ever question Brady's leadership...
Seriously? Not an effective way to make your point.
I never questioned his leadership...
I said he’ll bicker at teammates when things aren’t going well. True or false?
FIRE Perry Fewell
by bleedblue12 on Jan 31, 2012 4:44 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Eli just goes about his business...
And it seems to work just fine. No need to call people out or act like a baby.
FIRE Perry Fewell
by bleedblue12 on Jan 31, 2012 4:48 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Idk know where everyone got that...
I responded to someone questioning Eli leadership. I never questioned his! The point being there is more than one way to skin a cat.
FIRE Perry Fewell
by bleedblue12 on Jan 31, 2012 4:52 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Comparing their first 8 seasons...
Is what I so. Comparing there careers isn’t fair to anyone. The only way to do it is to wait until the book is finished.
FIRE Perry Fewell
by bleedblue12 on Jan 31, 2012 4:57 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Absolutely....
With a win Sunday (big if) he’ll be well on his way no?
FIRE Perry Fewell
by bleedblue12 on Jan 31, 2012 6:53 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Even in the regular season game...
Brady was on the sideline slamming water bottles throwing temper tantrums like a child not getting his way.
FIRE Perry Fewell
by bleedblue12 on Jan 31, 2012 4:47 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
You don't watch the games so quit making shit up
And if Brady is angry it’s because he was angry at himself for not getting the job done. I rather see a guy pissed off at his own failures than sit there staring blankly in space like Sanchez or someone.
I'm talking about the Giant game...
I don’t pretend to watch every Pats game.
FIRE Perry Fewell
by bleedblue12 on Jan 31, 2012 6:55 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Yeah he was fristrated against Baltimore and what did he say afterwards?
He said that he sucked that game and is thankful for the team that he has. In a nut shell if Im not mistaken.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
He doesn't bicker at his OL. He fires them up. And yeah, I'm not kidding and if anyone questions Eli's leadership they are indeed foolish.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
The implications to both QBs in this game are huge
I really fear what will happen if Giants win. This “debate” will only get worse despite Brady still being superior. Never mind all the other things that will follow – Brady is done, He’s anti-clutch, He should sell Uggs full time.
But what will happen if Eli has a bad game? Will he still be a rock star or will everybody’s tune change? Will they chalk it up to one bad game or the Patriots scheme? Or will they go back to trashing him like they usually do?
My guess is a Patriots loss is far more detrimental to Brady than it is to Eli though.
Selling Uggs LOL
You bring up an interesting question. Which QB would take a bigger hit from a loss? Without having their performances to look at I would have to agree with you that it is without question Brady.
The narrative of Eli’s ascension to Brady’s level would continue and the talk of Brady would start to focus in on his spotty playoff record since SB 42. Then the questions about his age would come up, he’s on the downward arc of his career, etc.
I voted for Eli in the poll “which QB is better right now” because #1, I am a Giants fan and I believe in my QB, his performance in these playoffs has been better than Brady’s, and Brady did not have a good game vs. the Ravens.
That being said, when comparing resumes the obvious winner is Brady. He is one of the best, if not the best QB I have ever seen play.
The truth. The REAL voice of reason
I kinda think
that Eli would take the bigger hit. Brady would still have 3 rings and all his records. If Eli were to lose he would still have his ring (as many as Peyton) with less regular season success (which is looked at when its not playoff time) and all of a sudden media members outside of NY will go back to "Well Peyton’s little brother did good in the playoffs, but didnt come away with another ring and still isnt top level during the regular season. My thoughts at least.
by AverageJoeEveryman on Feb 1, 2012 9:04 AM EST up reply actions
Anybody who thinks Eli doesn't play well in the regular season..
Is terribly misinformed!
FIRE Perry Fewell
by bleedblue12 on Feb 1, 2012 11:30 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
I said
isn’t top level as in not a regular season MVP candidate not doesn’t play well. He doesn’t play at the same level during these last regular seasons as Brady Brees Rogers etc.
by AverageJoeEveryman on Feb 1, 2012 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
I can see that.
But, as I’m thinking about it…. In general a fall from the lofty heights Brady has achieved sounds like a bigger fall, and a bigger story, than a probable narrative that Eli once again shows while he can be great at times, he still has inconsistencies. But that would only apply if Eli played badly, I think.
I think what would really hurt Brady is if Eli outplays him OR, has the ball last and drives the Giants for the winning score regardless of the fact that Brady would not be on the field playing defense at the time.
If it is a hard fought game in which both QB’s play well? I dunno….I don’t really have a strong opinion without details.
The truth. The REAL voice of reason
people live in the moment and completely overreact to it
Tom Brady is far and away a much better quarterback than eli. People easily forget that the giants went 9-7, and eli went 29/16 in TD/INT ratio this year. The giants get hot and all of a sudden Eli is amazing. I think the main reason is the number of 4th quarter touchdowns he’s thrown. But hey, nevermind the fact that he blew for the first 3 quarters, requiring the 4th quarter necessity of scoring.
and people in the moment think if the gaints win, that makes coughlin/eli better than belichick/brady? please. look at the body of work. 10 years from now, it won’t even be close.
I digress. Eli, when at the top of his game, is definitely a top tier QB. but he is still maddenly inconsistent (ask any giants fan, seriously), and is easily capable of a crap game.
i disagree about this
Eli was the only reason the giants made it to 9-7
Then the rest of the team woke up and Eli has continued to play at a high level with no o-line and therefore no run game
He really turned a corner this year.
Funny
because many would say the only reason the Pats were 13-3 was because of Brady. You know, because of our “worst defense ever”
I think you'll find
the difference being points let up. While your boys gave up huge yardage totals, they were middle of the pack in points allowed. Meanwhile the Giants were at the bottom in points allowed and actually let up more points than they scored for the season.
But I think I get your point, that the pats defensive problems are overblown by the media?
The truth. The REAL voice of reason
eli is not brady. stop living in the moment.
“If you include the 2008 season (where Brady didn’t play), here are the head to heads:
QBR: Brady 103.9. Manning 89.5 (Brady +14.4)
CMP : Brady 65.7. Manning 61.6% (Brady +4.1%)
Yards: Brady 13609. Manning 16194 (Manning +2585)
TD: Brady 103. Manning 108 (Manning +5)
INT: Brady 29. Manning 65 (Brady -36)
So…Brady misses a season and Manning leads by an equivalent season of 2585 yards, 5 TDs and 36 interceptions and the Giants would go 3-13 (their record differential)- and that’s saying they’re equal the other seasons and ignoring completion percentage. That’s just silly.
Pats Pulpit |
by Richard Hill on Jan 31, 2012 12:07 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs."
This.
I think you're also forgetting the AFCCG...
Patriots give up a touchdown and the lead, going down 17-16. Woodhead fumbles on the ensuing kick-off return and the Ravens get another touchdown to go up 20-16. Brady calmly engineers a touchdown drive, converting on 4th and goal to take the lead, permanently, 23-20.
Sure, Brady could have made things a heck of a lot easier by turning the Spikes INT into points, or by getting a 1st down after the 4th down stop, but that’s not what “clutch” is about. Clutch is about performing when you absolutely have to. And down 20-16 in the 4th quarter, Brady gave his team the lead again.
by CanadianPatriotsFan on Jan 31, 2012 1:42 PM EST reply actions
It's not Eli vs. Tom in ping pong...
Lupica = Tool
It's your thing, do what you wanna do, I can't tell you, who to sock it to. The Isley Brothers
by sweetjesusihatethejets on Jan 31, 2012 1:43 PM EST reply actions
+1
Lupica was laughing at Eli in August for saying he was elite, now he is swinging on Eli’s cojones, I take his articles with a grain of salt.
by Late for Dinner on Feb 1, 2012 12:45 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
In fact...
There’s only 1 game this year where Brady had a fourth quarter chance to tie up the game or take the lead (i.e. the opportunity to be clutch) and failed: the lose to the Steelers.
by CanadianPatriotsFan on Jan 31, 2012 1:44 PM EST reply actions
WHO VOTED ELI ?
"Thirty-seven points on the best defense in the league, suck my d–k" - Bill Belichick
'You are banned from Gang Green Nation'
"You can browse the blog, but you can't participate."
"BANNED LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Delusional Giants fans
Pedey: Dear Playstation, So MLB the Show '09 says I can't hit the high and inside, huh? That's ridiculous, ask Ramon.
Ramon: Yeah, he can hit it. In fact, if I were to die today and went to some weird...(grabs script) some weird limbo afterlife, where I can gaze at one thing for eternity. Dustin's swing, or my daggers? (DAUGHTERS!) daughter's first steps, I would choose that swing.
Lazer Show: I can hit that pitch!
by BrokenbatGrandSlam on Jan 31, 2012 4:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The argument for Eli
always seems to be associated with him as a “clutch” QB. I can’t think of a more intangible way to argue against Brady. That’s great if you’re a Giants fan and think Eli is a great QB, but can he only be great if we somehow undercut what Tom has been doing for years? He is no Tom Brady, and I’m fine with Tom being no Eli Manning. Let’s talk when we all agree that Eli is a first ballot hall of famer.
And BTW
it seems like the clutch moniker is the only claim that even gives this debate any credibility.
anyone see the recent articles on espnboston?
Basically, overall fans are saying Eli is better than Brady. ESPNNY writer Rich Cimini actually writes and article noting that since 2007, Eli has been better. Also, there’s an article about how overrated Brady is.
I’ll just have to keep my mouth shut on this one. Go ahead, think Eli is better than Tom. Tom is never better when he’s doubted.
Oh and last I checked, Eli still chucks passes off of his back foot to his ridiculously talented receiving core. Come on.
That's ludicrous.
If you include the 2008 season (where Brady didn’t play), here are the head to heads:
QBR: Brady 103.9. Manning 89.5 (Brady +14.4)
CMP : Brady 65.7. Manning 61.6% (Brady +4.1%)
Yards: Brady 13609. Manning 16194 (Manning +2585)
TD: Brady 103. Manning 108 (Manning +5)
INT: Brady 29. Manning 65 (Brady -36)
So…Brady misses a season and Manning leads by an equivalent season of 2585 yards, 5 TDs and 36 interceptions and the Giants would go 3-13 (their record differential)- and that’s saying they’re equal the other seasons and ignoring completion percentage. That’s just silly.
by Richard Hill on Jan 31, 2012 3:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
36 less interceptions?!
I knew Eli liked to throw it to the other team from time to time, but wow. That’s an absolutely mind-blowing statistic.
Can I Scream?
-18 differential in Brady's favor in 2010.
Pedey: Dear Playstation, So MLB the Show '09 says I can't hit the high and inside, huh? That's ridiculous, ask Ramon.
Ramon: Yeah, he can hit it. In fact, if I were to die today and went to some weird...(grabs script) some weird limbo afterlife, where I can gaze at one thing for eternity. Dustin's swing, or my daggers? (DAUGHTERS!) daughter's first steps, I would choose that swing.
Lazer Show: I can hit that pitch!
by BrokenbatGrandSlam on Jan 31, 2012 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
I love how Peyton changes WRs into good players..
Yet Eli turned an undrafted free agent into a star and yet the receivers get the credit smh. I forgot Gronk, Hernandez, and Welker suck and Brady does everything himself.
FIRE Perry Fewell
by bleedblue12 on Jan 31, 2012 4:31 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Welker was an undrafted free agent, and miami traded them to brady in 07. Look at what he did.
He conjured up 3 superbowls with no name WRs. I know you can throw in our defense, but Brady had to work with those WRs and drive us down the field to score, and he did it like a top 3 QB. Hernandez was a 4th rounder when they drafted him, and look what happened.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
You don't have to convince me of Tom Brady's greatness....
I’ve seen it and it scares the shit out of me but you guys out of all fan bases should realize Eli is a scary opponent to face. Get past the goofy faces and you’ll find yourself a GREAT QB.
FIRE Perry Fewell
by bleedblue12 on Jan 31, 2012 10:27 PM EST up reply actions
We know he is a great QB.
We aren;t blind. Sometimes we like to joke around.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
Since 2007?
In 2008 the Giants went 12-4 and were 1 and done in the playoffs (divisional round)
In 2009 they went 8-8 and didn’t make the playoffs.
In 2010 they went 10-6 and didn’t make the playoffs. What happened to clutch in the past two years?
Keep the faith!
by Marima on Jan 31, 2012 6:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
bingo.
regardless of brady’s “inconsistency” in the playoffs, he missed the playoffs twice in his career. one was in 2002, and one in 2008 when he played 1 quarter of football.
Not that big a deal when you play in the perennial doormat AFC East
Whom the Giants swept this season in 9-7 regular season. Bills terrible every year, same for Dolphins and Jets were decent since Rex but still not much of a team.
FIRE Perry Fewell
by bleedblue12 on Feb 1, 2012 11:33 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Teams always play the Patriots tough
regardless of their record. It’s usually like that in a division. Just look at the Colts and Jaguars – Colts usually win but it’s almost always a dogfight. I thought you were making excuses there for a minute.
Keep the faith!
by Marima on Feb 1, 2012 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Don't try to make
the Washington Redskins not seem like a perennial doormat just because they beat your G-Men by two scores—twice.
Can I Scream?
Not like the NFC east is all that tough either
pretty sure the only team we lost to from it this year was yours.
Although this was a down year..
The NFC East is a tough division year in and year out. Even in a down year had three teams at 500 or better and a Super Bowl birth. Not bad for a down year.
FIRE Perry Fewell
by bleedblue12 on Feb 1, 2012 8:33 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
ok
then lets go back to the last time we faced your division. In 2007, we obviously went 4-0. Oh and how about 2003, yep 3-1 again. How about those pre-Brady years 1999, 2-1 I guess the scheduling back then didn’t have the Skins on the docket.
I know I am being an ass but people like to overrate their divisions all the time. The only team in the AFC east that has consistently and unrelentingly been a doormat has been Buffalo. EVERY division has one of these teams.
You make a good point..
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
Obviously I knew the rematch headlines would be around if NY/NE played, but
this silly comparison of Brady/Manning was not one I anticipated (though maybe I should have). It makes me wonder what the headlines would have been if SF had won. Alex Smith/Brady comparisons…. LOL!
Eli's play has driven this headline
And I would venture a guess that if Brady had played against the Ravens like he did against the Broncos, it would be a sidenote. It would still be brought up because of Eli’s play, but I don’t think too many people would give Eli much thought in the debate.
The truth. The REAL voice of reason
Keep in mind what Lupica was saying...that he would take Eli Manning over Brady RIGHT NOW
I don’t think anyone can compare the two and not think that Brady has had a much more successful career and season. However, if we want to compare how the QBs match up recently, not just comparing stats, but opponents, I think Eli is the hotter quarterback. Not that you could go wrong with either and I don’t think anyone is saying one is great and the other is trash.
The bottom line is that Eli is perceived as more clutch, not because he “blew for 3 quarters” as someone suggested, but because like the Patriots, the Giant defense hasn’t been able to keep it together until recently and he has had to win it in the end. Watching Eli since he came into the league though, I can tell you one thing that has always impressed me, going back before his Super Bowl win, he is money in the 2-minute drill at the end of the half and the end of the game. It has made me scream for more no huddle as that seems to be when Eli thrives and I think THAT is what has given him the moniker of being a “Clutch” quarterback.
In the end though, Patriots fans are happy with Brady and Giant fans are happy with Eli…as we both should be.
The Possimpible - Where the possible and impossible meet - Barney Stinson
Big Blue View - Supporting the Catalina Wine Mixer since 2011
and since I love Tropic Thunder
Check it out. Dustin Hoffman, ‘Rain Man,’ look retarded, act retarded, not retarded. Counted toothpicks, cheated cards. Autistic, sho’. Not retarded. You know Tom Hanks, ‘Forrest Gump.’ Slow, yes. Retarded, maybe. Braces on his legs. But he charmed the pants off Nixon and won a ping-pong competition. That ain’t retarded. Peter Sellers, “Being There.” Infantile, yes. Retarded, no. You went full retard, man. Never go full retard. You don’t buy that? Ask Sean Penn, 2001, “I Am Sam.” Remember? Went full retard, went home empty handed…
by AverageJoeEveryman on Feb 1, 2012 9:08 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
my favorite line though
“IM A LEAD FARMER MOTHA FUCKER”
by AverageJoeEveryman on Feb 1, 2012 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
I'm a Giants fan here and a HUGE Eli defendor... but Brady is still better
Well written article, and I agree with pretty much everything you said.
I haven’t heard a single Pats fan here say bad things about Eli. He’s a great QB playing really well… and at the end of the game he’s as dangerous as any. But Brady’s track record and numbers overall are undeniable. Both are great… neither will be the reason their team loses… and more important, both guys are the #1 reason their team is in the SB.
I think a more interesting question is who has the edge in the following matchup:
Eli vs Pats secondary
Brady vs Giants secondary
I think the quality of the teams secondaries evens this out to basically a draw, which should make for a great game. Both defenses are playing much better of late, but I believe both are still beatable by the opposing QB.
Why would that be a fair comparison?
All anyone is talking about is the horrendous Patriots secondary (thank you Deion Sanders) and the formidable Giants defense. So… how would that comparison even mean anything?
Keep the faith!
Whoever says Eli is better than Tom is wrong. Flat out wrong.
Same class? Yes. Better or equal to? No.
If someone were to say that right now Eli is playing the best…sure…look at the playoff stats…but that argument in itself is somewhat meaningless. Its like saying that Rex Grossman is playing better than Tom Brady in, IDK week 3 next year cause Tom threw 2 TDs and a INT and Rex miraculously threw 3 TDs that day.
"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle
by BigBlueIntervention on Jan 31, 2012 4:32 PM EST reply actions
BBI
I know you like to be politically correct but to make that comparison to Rex is borderline retarded. Eli hasn’t had one good game. He’s had an impressive career so far and the arrow is pointing up.
FIRE Perry Fewell
by bleedblue12 on Jan 31, 2012 4:36 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I'm not comparing him to rex. That's the furthest from what I tried to convey lol.
I’m just saying that the media boasting that Eli played better than Tom in the Championship games doesn’t mean anything. It means about as much as Rex-Tom blah blah blah
"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle
by BigBlueIntervention on Jan 31, 2012 5:18 PM EST up reply actions
Eli Manning playing good football
But he will not be greater than his older brother! He is, however, capable of being better than A. Rodgers or D. Brees! I’ll give him that.
Career ain't over yet. Anything can happen.
For both QBs. I have a sneaking suspicion though that both will end up in the HOF when all is said and done. Brady will go down as the best ever.
"We will not be denied." - Antrel Rolle
by BigBlueIntervention on Jan 31, 2012 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
Eli is arguably playing better right now
but by no means is he the better QB in general. If Brady wins one more game he’s going to be considered the Greatest QB of All Time, at the least top 3, Eli isn’t even a top 3 QB in the league yet. Although I hate Manning, I respect great QB play and i can’t help but respect his great play this season (most of it). He had finally put together an elite QB season after many inconsistent/decent ones.
Rex Ryan: "There’s no way that we’re looking to replace Mark Sanchez"
Patriots Nation: "Thank God"
Giants Fans: "FOUR MORE YEARS!! FOUR MORE YEARS!!"
i think each qb is perfect for their respective teams
Brady has the superior resume no doubt. But i feel very confidant heading into this game with eli, as im sure pats fans feel with brady.
Imo i believe brady will play very well. But i think the giants as a team is playing better right now, enough to disrupt him on D and i respect the pats D in stopping the ravens but Eli is capable of tearing them up.
by jhMLB on Jan 31, 2012 11:08 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I remember back in (I think) 2007
when Tiki Barber retired and became a “respected analyst” and he made that comment about the Giants going nowhere as long as Eli Manning was the QB. I can’t stand anything Manning and yet that comment ticked me off. For that reason ONLY, the loss in the SB had a little bit less sting. I saw it as retribution for Eli. Granted, that state of mind came many days and many tears AFTER the actual game.
My opinion is that Eli has lived in his brother’s shadow for so long, with Daddy stepping in and making situations work for him, that he has to struggle to keep up. Every game of his that I have watched (and I admit it’s not many) he seems to be fighting to make things happen. ( SB42? blind luck and a piece of bubble gum on a helmet.) Yes, he’s a very good quarterback, and he’s been VERY VERY lucky to have a Plaxico Buress (sp) or a Victor Cruz, but would this conversation be taking place if he had a David Patten and Deion Branch as his “top” receivers? (love Deion but he is no elite receiver)
"I'm a well conditioned athlete. I don't need oxygen" Vince Wilfork
How quickly we forget Cruz
Is an undrafted FA who was nearly cut. Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Gronk, Hernandez, great defenses early in his career. The tuck rule! So lets not act that Brady hasn’t had players around him and as much LUCK as anybody.
FIRE Perry Fewell
by bleedblue12 on Feb 1, 2012 11:37 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
It's just about all luck with Eli
Wether it be the defense he has played with, his running game, great WR’s, crazy “luck” plays like Catch 42, SF fumbles, Farve INT in 2007, on and on and on.
And I love the one about his father….doing whatever he did. :-)
I just love that the kid wanted to come to the bright lights of NY. He CHOSE NY. He could have made millions, played good football for a good team in SD, get some sun, and deal with pussycats for media with like two reporters covering the team. He knew NY wanted him and orchestrated things as much as he could on his end to get there.
You know what separates Eli as a QB from so many other QB’s? Two things my friend; his left testicle, and his right testicle.
The truth. The REAL voice of reason
Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Gronk, Hernandez
Didn’t have them till after 2007 (Moss and Welker) and after 2009 (gronk and herndo). Welker was an undrafted free agent that miamai didnt care for. randy moss was considered washed up, and a locker room disaster. meh.
Gronk people passed on due to his back injury. and Herndo went into the 4th round. Brady didn’t have a great defense throughout his acreer. I believe his defense made top 10 in 3 separate occasions. I believe.
And the tuck rule is an actual RULE, and by the rule’s GUIDELINES it was indeed the TUCK RULE. Hate the rule itself, but it IS a rule. Not too mention Brady STILL had to drive them into field goal range to put them into overtime, and Brady had to drive them in overtime.
Oh yeah, then he went on to beat the greatest show on turf.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
but but but
The referees made a call on a rule that’s clearly stated in the rule book! If Brady didn’t have the refs making calls based on the rules, he never would have won a SB!
by indy pats fan on Feb 1, 2012 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
Eli is solidly 2nd tier
behind Rodgers, Brady, a little behind Peyton, and ahead of everyone else.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 14, 2012 1:52 PM EST reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Media requests: Please email patspulpit at gmail.com
Related FanPosts on Pats Pulpit
Related FanShots on Pats Pulpit
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Shutdown Corner - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
- Former high-school star Brian Banks does serious time on trumped-up charge, now hopes for an NFL shot
- Former ‘idiot kicker’ Mike Vanderjagt in trouble after accosting junior-high heckler
- Adrian Peterson blows teammates away in footraces; appears to be on the mend
- UPDATE: Charlie Sheen didn’t buy Lawrence Taylor’s Super Bowl ring
- Alex Smith gets blown up by Jon Beason over Cam Newton comments
