Our Future at WR
by Oughat on Jan 4, 2012 1:02 PM EST
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PrintI figure with the bye week and the lack of a decided opponent there is little to talk about. So I present to you this idea typically reserved for offseason discussions. It is time for the Patriots to focus on a wide receiver project. I know, I know, not a mind blowing idea. Also, really a repeat of what the Pats have been trying to accomplish the last few years but hear me out.
Thanks to the stats I poached from Mark Farinella's article we can see that the tight ends (Gronkandez) accounted for 42.7 percent of the passing yards along with 25 of the 57 offensive touchdowns scored this year. Add in Welker and he accounts for another 30 percent and 9 touchdowns. So those three players are already handling 72.7 percent of the offense and 34 of the 57 scores. Considering 17 of the remaining touchdowns was run in by a RB or by TFB, that leaves only 6 scores handled by the rest of the receiving crew. The only receiver after "the big three" that has respectable production is Deion Branch and he looks old. Deion accounted for roughly 15% of the yards and 5 of those 6 remaining touchdowns. If you from here total all the remaining pass yards to wide receivers it is virtually equal to that of the receiving yards of our runningbacks, 386 to 363 respectively.
What I propose the Pats should do in the offseason is clean house at the wide receiver position. Obviously, it's important to resign Welker but the likes of Ochocinco, Deion Branch and Tiquan Underwood are either too old or just not talented enough. The offense is going to move with this solid corps of tightends and runningbacks. As long as we can keep our slot guy in Welker there isn't a better time than now to be training young blood in this offense. Ditching Deion and Ocho will save the team money so they can spend it elsewhere and the offense still has enough pieces that it wouldn't be hindered by a couple of guys learning on the job. More specifically, the rookies would be able to come in and not have very important playing time being taken by veterans. They would have ample opportunity to develop their skills in a live game atmosphere.
None of the rookie projects in the past have really been able to grow in this TE heavy offense. The WRs had always been an extremely important aspect of the offense and it was very important they all were working in concert since we rarely had superstars to take the majority of the targets. At this point, I believe this offense is going to function wether the outside receivers are experienced or not, it already runs from inside the numbers out.
I know many of you wouldn't be sad to see Ocho go but I think it should be a strong consideration to bounce Deion too.
Edit: Edelman and Slater I didn't factor in for being cut or traded on the basis that they serve other roles on the team and their value is obvious.
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Who are the rookie projects?
Brandon Tate was a rookie project in 2009 before the arrival of the TEs, but didn’t play much before injuries put him on IR and now he’s mostly returning kickoffs or punts for the Bengals and not being used as a WR. Taylor Price couldn’t break in here and there’s not enough body of work to see how much he’ll be used in Jacksonville.
These were the receivers the Patriots began 2010 with: Wes Welker, Randy Moss (replaced with Deion Branch), Julian Edelman, Matthew Slater and Brandon Tate.
In 2011: Wes Welker, Deion Branch, Chad Ochocinco, Taylor Price, Julian Edelman and Matthew Slater.
If the offense is moving – whether it’s mostly via tight ends, Welker, or the run game, then I wouldn’t fret too much about not having a stud WR. If it ain’t broke, don’t “fix it” just to look more conventional. I wouldn’t be surprised if more teams aren’t envious of what the Patriots have, and try to copy their approach by acquiring big, versatile tight ends in this year’s draft.
I also agree that the offense would be even better, with better receivers. But it’s a fine line between acquiring talent (see Santonio Holmes) and having WRs like Deion Branch and Chad Ochocinco who don’t complain or pout when the the passes go to the TEs.
Keep the faith!
by Marima on Jan 4, 2012 1:35 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
In reference to earlier projects:
I was thinking of specifically the likes of Bethel Johnson, Chad Jackson, Kelley Washington and Tate. Now a lot of those guys obviously were held back by injuries but they often couldn’t get quality playing time because of veterans. Bethel was behind guys like Troy Brown, D. Branch, David Givens and Tim Dwight. Chad Jackson was behind Brown, Reche Caldwell, and Jabar Gaffney. Then in 07 he slipped further down because obviously they brought in Welker, Moss, Stallworth and they still had Gaffney. Kelley Washington was around for them in 07 and 08. Sam Aiken for 08 and 09.
I know Branch and Ocho are good soldiers and still have a little in the tank but with the way the offense is set up right now it only makes sense to bring in young guys. You would avoid the whining about not getting targets because you would be bringing in rookies to an established offensive philosophy. Who could possibly argue passes going to the best Tight end in the league. Besides, as long as the team is winning complaints are usually held to a minimum.
To be clear, when I say that I want them to clean house and bring in new and younger guys I mean draft them. I am not saying they should sign them in free agency.
Pats don't have a good record with drafting wide receivers
In hindsight, they should have paid Jabar Gaffney and done whatever they could to keep him. He caught on to the offense and earned Brady’s trust right away, and would have been a valuable, productive player here.
Keep the faith!
He has been reliable wherever he goes.
He was even productive down here in DC and that offense is abysmal. I was sad to see him go for sure.
The Pats should draft Mohammad Sanu if he falls far enough.
I go to school with him and he’s a great guy. Very smart, kind, and diligent in his work on and off the field. He set a few school receiving records this year, and all he could say about it was “I’m just glad I was able to help us win some games.” I think he would do very well in the Patriots’ system.
It matters not how strait the gate, nor charged with punishments the scroll:
I am the Master of my fate. I am the Captain of my soul.
U attend Rutgers University?
If you see Savon Huggins tell him Malik Daniels(Me) is a big fan
"Thirty-seven points on the best defense in the league, suck my d–k" - Bill Belichick
The Ryan Brothers: Two brother's who never played a down as an NFL player, Yet feel the need to trash talk like they are in the Hall Of Fame
By all means!
I went to high school with Savon as well, before he left for Saint Peter’s Prep. Great guy.
It matters not how strait the gate, nor charged with punishments the scroll:
I am the Master of my fate. I am the Captain of my soul.
I don't watch college football
so I can’t speak to who I think they should draft. Having said that I think the team as greater needs for the early round picks (rd1 and rd2). But certainly for rounds 3-5 a pick or two should be for WR.
Oh absolutely.
I would be pretty pissed if the Pats drafted a WR in the first round (unless it was Justin Blackmon or Michael Floyd, who play like Larry Fitzgerald and Calvin Johnson, respectively.) because they have more pressing issues. Since it’s virtually a guarantee that the Patriots will trade one of their first round picks, I would hope that they use the first one on safety Mark Barron from Alabama. He’s an absolute monster.
But I digress. I was just saying that Sanu would be a great fit if he fell far enough haha.
It matters not how strait the gate, nor charged with punishments the scroll:
I am the Master of my fate. I am the Captain of my soul.
Blackmon and Floyd aren’t as good as A J Green, let alone Fitz/CJ
by quadruple option on Jan 5, 2012 10:35 PM EST up reply actions
Oh goodness, I didn't mean talent as a player in college
I meant in their style of playing the position. I’m not foolish enough to claim a college player is going to be a guaranteed All-Pro or anything like that haha.
It matters not how strait the gate, nor charged with punishments the scroll:
I am the Master of my fate. I am the Captain of my soul.
Yeah but even at the College level they aren/t as good as those other guys were!
by quadruple option on Jan 7, 2012 12:18 AM EST up reply actions
Hasn’t Sanu had about a half dozen concussions this year?
by quadruple option on Jan 5, 2012 10:35 PM EST up reply actions
Looking around
Not that wideout should be the first draft choice, but here are some choices from the upcoming draft:
Kendall Wright, WR, Baylor
Projected Round (2012): 1-2.
Marvin McNutt, WR, Iowa
Projected Round (2012): 2
Jordan White, WR, Western Michigan
Projected Round (2012): 2-3
Damarlo Belcher, WR, Indiana
Projected Round (2012): FA
I’m in agreement with BigRuss though..wideout is not the most pressing of needs: a guy in the front 7 either OLB or DE that can throw offensive linemen behind the QB as they get 7 sacks a game, or a guy in the backfield who can cover the entire field (stopping both the run and the pass: 2 TFL & 2 Ints per game, sound good?). Again I agree with BigRuss: Mark Barron is a good choice. Another is RayRay Armstrong out of Miami (but he’s an underclassman)
by DeutschVergnugen on Jan 4, 2012 3:50 PM EST reply actions
I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a pass rusher
who accumulates 7 sacks per game or 2 tackles for loss and 2 interceptions in any level, even Pop Warner. Except of course me, but I chose a business path; less risk of injury. :-)
Cyril P
liryc715@yahoo.com
;)
You forgot throwing offensive linemen behind the quarterback.
by DeutschVergnugen on Jan 5, 2012 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
I'm a big Notre Dame fan and I can't imagine how well Michael Floyd would work with Tom.
Tom Brady. Nuff said.
so Julian should be converted to a full-time DB?
Thad Castle: Which one of you assholes stuck his finger in my asshole?
maybe ...maybe not.
But his role in the receiving corps really has little to no affect on the guys on the outside (Branch, Ocho, Underwood). Besides I think it is fair to say that the ship has sailed on the days of him becoming a starting wide receiver. Unless of course BB gets really bold and lets Welker walk in the off season.
....
I hope not. I like Welker, but this wouldn’t be the first player they’ve let go.
by DeutschVergnugen on Jan 5, 2012 10:08 AM EST up reply actions
It took Welker about four years to become Super-Wes.
Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell
NOT another project
I think we should keep Ocho and Deion for as long as we can, assuming they don’t cause trouble. Then, instead of drafting another late 2nd or third round WR, we try and get one in the high 20s or low teens. That way he can have a positive influence from Ocho and Deion, and if he is a bust or takes a while to adjust we have something to fall back on.
And ideally, we get a tall dude with good hands. Not necessarily a deep threat, but someone who will require double teams and 20+ yards out. Sort of like Randy Moss on a smaller scale.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Jan 5, 2012 1:35 PM EST reply actions
Stevie Johnson
I’ve been thinking about this one since he bills game. He’s a free agent and a deep threat. He has a big personality, but that has never really been an issue with New England. His benching during the last game could mean that his price tag will drop a bit, and who wouldn’t take a little bit of a discount to go from the Bills to the Pats? Does anyone else think this could work?
I’d also consider trading up to get Blackman from OK State. He looks like a beast and I can’t imagine him being a bust like our other drafted WRs
No on both accounts
Blackmon is a stud no doubt but he is going to go too high, possibly as high as 2 to the Rams. It would take too many picks to get up that high and it goes against pretty much all of BBs principles to do that.
Johnson is talented no doubt but he too often gets the case of the dropsies in big situations. Not only that but you aren’t fighting how front offices price him out but how he prices himself out in his head. I’m not sure the headache is worth it. Besides if you really want to go the free agent route there are going to be a good number of quality wide outs potentially hitting the market this spring. I’m sure there is a productive guy among them that would be far less painful to work with.
Honestly though if you are thinking free agent wideout they are better off sticking with ocho and Deion. The only real reason to ditch them is for the opportunity to develop some young guys for the future. Those two probably only have a couple years left between them.
We shouldn't be trading up
for an OFFENSIVE PLAYER. Offense has not been the problem since 06 and even then we scored 30+ points in our last playoff game
Rex Ryan: "There’s no way that we’re looking to replace Mark Sanchez"
Patriots Nation: "Thank God"
Giants Fans: "FOUR MORE YEARS!! FOUR MORE YEARS!!"
by Chris Kole on Jan 5, 2012 4:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
^ this
We need some defensive work (Safety, Corner, and the front seven) and making sure we have enough pieces in the Offensive Line. We have a decent receiving corps (especially with Gronk and Herndo) and a solid running back committee. If they’re going to pick up offensive players I would prefer to look later rounds for backs (Jeff Demps (from Flordia: blazing speed and able to do returns) & Brandon Bolden (from Ole Miss: another beefy back) and wideouts (Damarlo Belcher from Indiana: speed and 6’5, 216).
Otherwise I stick by my earlier statement about picking up defensive players who can record 3 sacks and 2 ints a game (all of them). Maybe occasionally returning for a defensive touchdown. We can’t be too greedy.
by DeutschVergnugen on Jan 6, 2012 12:17 AM EST up reply actions
If we want one, this is the one I want:
http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/05/georgia-tech-loses-wr-stephen-hill-to-the-nfl/
by quadruple option on Jan 5, 2012 10:43 PM EST reply actions
You want a receiver that walks behind a defense preparing against the gimmicky triple option?
Pedey: Dear Playstation, So MLB the Show '09 says I can't hit the high and inside, huh? That's ridiculous, ask Ramon.
Ramon: Yeah, he can hit it. In fact, if I were to die today and went to some weird...(grabs script) some weird limbo afterlife, where I can gaze at one thing for eternity. Dustin's swing, or my daggers? (DAUGHTERS!) daughter's first steps, I would choose that swing.
Lazer Show: I can hit that pitch!
by BrokenbatGrandSlam on Jan 6, 2012 9:57 PM EST up reply actions
We’ve tried every other type and they;‘ve all sucked
He’s got wheels and hops. Try him!
by quadruple option on Jan 7, 2012 12:18 AM EST up reply actions
so 3 receiving option account for 70% of the passes? Isn't that like.... for ALL offenses?
Because I am sure that 3 receiving targets for each offense in the NFL gets about 70% of the receiving for the offense anyways. lol
BUT if there is a prospect I like, its Nick Toon. I want a very good route runner for our offense to run our option routes, and nick toon seems to have the size and quickness to fit the bill. His father is a HoF WR from the Jets too.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
Right
All I was suggesting is that since our wideouts are such a small aspect of the passing game right now it’s the best time to be teaching some young guys for the future. You would be able to get them first team snaps in practice and live game work while the offense is still able to function.
If you look at the comparable offenses, the Saints and Packers, their offenses are a little more spread out. The Saint’s top three accounts for less than 60% and the Packer’s top three less than 65%.
I saw an interesting article comparing the stud wr to a shiny hood ornament
Every sports car has one but does it really make the performance of the car any better?
The article specifically pointed out the production of the Falcons after trading their entire draft to get Julio Jones(he was hampered by a ham string part of the year) but the overall offensive production of the team didn’t really improve from 2010 to 2011.
A deep threat is great, but if your O-line can’t hold the pocket for 4+ seconds for the deep route to develop he’s not as valuable.
Welker gets franchised this offseason, or agrees to a 3yr deal.
BB will probabaly draft O-lineman, DB, D-line//LB depending on who falls to them.
The Saints draft pick may end up being traded to StL for Mcdaniels return with some later round picks
GFY
It was not my intention to suggest we needed a stud
The fact of the matter is, we are going to need fresh blood at the position soon. I think it would behoove the team to start on that process asap. Branch and Ocho are just taking up space at this point.
The early part of the draft should most certainly focus on other areas. No doubt.
I knew you weren't requesting a "stud"
just noting some of the shortcomings from other teams decisions to lay it out on them.
GFY
by TFBismywingman on Jan 6, 2012 7:05 PM EST up reply actions
If the pats trade a first round pick for mccdaniels
I will personally fly out to gillette and punch BB
Wasn't there a rumor of a Jackson trade in the short offseason
His value is less now that Ridley seems to be coming into his own.
Jackson+McD+whatever else and a 3 yr contract or compensatory pick if McD decides to leave. Just throwing out my early draft tinfoil hat theories
GFY
by TFBismywingman on Jan 6, 2012 7:15 PM EST up reply actions
I saw that too
Kerry Byrne of Cold Hard Football Facts came up with the Shiny Hood Ornament theory that was recently elevated to Man Law. Pretty interesting.
Keep the faith!
Looking at that article it in a roundabout way supports what I am suggesting
Which is to bring in younger cheaper WRs and dump our older higher priced hood ornaments.
“Julio jones has made our offense more explosive”
“You scored more points last year”
by quadruple option on Jan 6, 2012 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
selling off an entire draft class for a WR is silly
Psssst. Just between you and me the clones are almost done.
They’re one part jack rabbit, one part giraffe, one part leopard, one part golden retriever, and one part ape. Of course, we had to use animal DNA, because it would be unethical to use DNA from Welker, Moss, Hernandez, Branch, and Gronkowski. Who would even think such a thing?
Thankfully the part that plays when it wants to play is getting pulled around by the Energizer bunny part. Whew!
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
Belichick is looking for a new name for his boat: VI Rings sounds pretty good.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Jan 6, 2012 11:19 AM EST reply actions
How did you know?
/twitches
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
Belichick is looking for a new name for his boat: VI Rings sounds pretty good.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Jan 6, 2012 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
Since the clones are almost done, I started scrapping all my old 'droid receivers.
One of them is missing, though. The one code-named: Megatron. Tell me if you see him.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
Belichick is looking for a new name for his boat: VI Rings sounds pretty good.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Jan 9, 2012 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
Enough with the offense
I don’t care how good the offense is we need A BALANCED TEAM so Tom Brady can have a bad game in the playoffs and we can still advance. I want to have some sort of defense next year. It’s embarrassing that it’s taken this long to rebuild the D
Rex Ryan: "There’s no way that we’re looking to replace Mark Sanchez"
Patriots Nation: "Thank God"
Giants Fans: "FOUR MORE YEARS!! FOUR MORE YEARS!!"
It's easier to identify places to fix the offense
To write an article on how to fix the defense it would be three times as long. But if you really want to talk about it, I think we need a couple LBs particularly ones that can rush the passer and some safeties. Done. That was easy. I guess I was wrong.
If we are running the 4-3 our LBs are completely fine.
We need DEs that can rush the passer. In the 3-4 yeah we need one edge rusher and one containing rusher (Nink does well in this area. Also he can cover).
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
I wasn't really differentiating between LB and DE
but point noted.
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