New England Patriots Links 2/13/12 - Patrick Chung Solid Centerpiece to Safeties
by Marima on Feb 13, 2012 11:18 AM EST
in New England Patriots Links
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Jeff Howe reviews the safeties on the roster, noting the need for Belichick to add a boost to this position for next season.
Patriots head coach Bill Belichick made some curious decisions with his safeties early in the 2011 season, and it caught up to them over the course of the year. Belichick released James Sanders and Brandon Meriweather, but the Patriots also couldn't come to terms with Dashon Goldson, who met with the team before returning to San Francisco to have a Pro Bowl year.
From there, Patrick Chung missed eight games due to injuries, and Josh Barrett landed on injured reserve. James Ihedigbo took on more responsibility than he's ever had in his career, and wide receiver Matthew Slater and cornerbacks Nate Jones, Sterling Moore and Devin McCourty took on added roles at safety to handle the depth issue.
Belichick must address this position going forward, either by shifting McCourty there full-time or adding another player or two.
Safeties on Final Roster: Chung, Ihedigbo, Sergio Brown, Ross Ventrone (practice squad), Bret Lockett (injured reserve), Barrett (injured reserve) Key Statistic: Ihedigbo was fifth on the team with 72 total tackles, and he was fourth with 50 solo tackles.
Hot Topic: Chung couldn't take a big step forward this year due to a pair of injuries, including a foot ailment that sidelined him for seven games at the end of the regular season. Chung was expected to take on a major role with the defense after Sanders and Meriweather were cut, and it just never panned out. The three-year veteran has an obvious playmaking ability, which he showed in the Super Bowl with a major sideline hit to jar the ball free from Hakeem Nicks, and he'll be counted on to add a physical edge to the defense in 2012.
Offseason Question: How can the Patriots improve the position?
During the 2010 season, a source indicated the Patriots were going to head in a new direction with the position and, well, that obviously turned out to be the case early in 2011. However, the biggest names on that transaction wire were the departures, not the additions. If Belichick decides to pair up Chung with McCourty, the Patriots won't really need to make a big splash in the safety pool this offseason.
However, if they're looking for an upgrade over Ihedigbo and Barrett, there are a few intriguing free agents, including Goldson (again), Tyvon Branch, Jim Leonhard, Michael Griffin and LaRon Landry. Potential draft targets would be Alabama's Mark Barron, who could be off the board in the top 20, Notre Dame's Harrison Smith, Boise State's George Iloka, South Carolina's Antonio Allen and Oklahoma State's Markelle Martin to name a few.
TEAM TALK
- Patriots president Jonathan Kraft defends Rob Gronkowski. (1.05 min. video)
- 2012 NFL Scouting Combine: More than 300 top prospects have been invited to participate.
LOCAL LINKS
- Mike Reiss offers some quick-hit thoughts from the Patriots and around the NFL.
- Christopher Price reports Rob Gronkowski is looking at a four-to-six week recovery time after his ankle surgery.
- Ian Rapoport notes Rob Gronkowski's ankle surgery was successful and with a 10-week timetable for recovery, could be available for OTAs in late April.
- Karen Guregian says the Patriots might want to proactively extend the deal of Rob Gronkowski, and secure him for the long haul.
- Chris Gasper believes it's time for the Patriots to maximize Tom Brady's prime and go all in this year.
- Christopher Price rates the current 53-man roster. Part 2 .
- Tom E. Curran lists the veteran wideouts the Patriots have tried to wring production from with mixed results, and looks at the list of viable targets this offseason.
- Jeff Howe looks at the performance of the linebackers on the roster in an interesting year for the Pats defense. They're in good shape but still need another piece or two.
- Jeff Howe spotlights the play of the cornerbacks in 2011.
- Jeff Howe reviews the specialists, saying the Patriots have found consistency in Gostkowski, Mesko and Aiken.
- Mary Paoletti reports Randy Moss says on his USTREAM channel that he's returning to the NFL.
- Chad Finn talks about how hard it is to even get to the Super Bowl
- Greg A. Bedard says the Patriots are in good shape with their Draft preparation.
- Shalise Manza Young talks with Kevin Faulk,, who sounded like a man whose playing days are done, but still not ready to pull the trigger on retirement.
- Mike Reiss hands out his 2011 Patriots awards.
- Ian Rapoport tells us who he picks for his 2011-12 Patriots superlatives.
- Mike Reiss lays out the Patriots' priorities in the coming weeks, which include the Combine and exploring extensions with their own free agents. (1 min. video)
- Shalise Manza Young charts how many snaps each player played for the Patriots on offense in the entire 2011 season, including three post season games.
NATIONAL NEWS
- James Walker (ESPN) Patriots: Who stays and who goes?
- James Walker (ESPN) Walker's AFC East weekend mailbag.
- Cam Inman (Mercury News) Patriots' Belichick getting over Super Bowl loss at Pebble Beach.
- Michael David Smith (ProFootballTalk) Belichick says golf helps take his mind off the Super Bowl.
- Peter King (SI) MMQB: Giants learned a long time ago of Eli Manning's poise, toughness.
- Chris Corbellini (Fox Sports) Do the Patriots belong with the best?
- Michael David Smith (ProFootballTalk) Reggie Wayne hasn't heard from Colts, open to playing for Patriots.
- Eric Edholm (Pro Football Weekly) Patriots could make run at Texans' Williams.
- Mike Beacom (Yahoo! Sports) Hall of Fame probability of active players: Tom Brady, Peyton Manning for sure; Tony Romo in air.
- Aaron Wilson (Fox Sports) Shawn Crable: 'It's about persistence.'
- Rob Rang (CBS Sports) Big board: Top prospects centered around passing game.
- Wes Bunting (Nat'l Football Post) NFL Draft: Late round sleepers worth monitoring.
- Michael Lombardi (Sporting News) Free agent wideouts. (4.01 min. video)
- Elizabeth Merrill (ESPN) The road to NFL retirement.
- Tyler Cowen and Kevin Grier (Grantland) What would the end of football look like?
- Mike Florio (ProFootballTalk) Minimum cash spend will be based on unadjusted cap numbers.
- Mike Florio (ProFootballTalk) New CBA gives teams the right to carry over cap space automatically.
- Mike Tanier (NY Times) NFL's Pro Bowl is postseason party few want to attend.
- Video (ESPN) Miami Herald columnist Israel Gutierrez opines on Rob Gronkowski's post-Super Bowl dancing. (1 min. clip)
- Adam Rank (NFL.com) NFL musical mascots.
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Jim Leonhard is an interesting idea at safety.
Might weaken the Jets as we get stronger.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Feb 13, 2012 11:33 AM EST reply actions
Definitely an interesting name
I’d really like the Pats to try to sign Goldson again, but that ship might have sailed when he decided to remain in San Fran.
by Greg Knopping on Feb 13, 2012 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I like him
He’s a leader with experience and he’s looked good in the games I’ve seen him in. Better than a rookie safety coming in and attempting to start.
It's not whether you win or lose.
It's whether you win.
-Trump 'The Game'
Might be a good veteran to develop someone under.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Feb 13, 2012 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
I like this idea
Leonhard is a good locker room presence as well as a servicable safety – he could help our secondary both on and off the field. But I would still draft a safety to groom behind him or some other veteran.
The only problem I see here is his health as he ended the past two seasons on IR.
by Offensive Jazz Interference on Feb 13, 2012 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
Pretty much, somebody says this EVERY year.
Chris Gasper believes it’s time for the Patriots to maximize Tom Brady’s prime and go all in this year.
Do these guys ever watch how Hoodie operates?
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Feb 13, 2012 11:36 AM EST reply actions
They should have done it this year
Having a threat at WR would have been a huge difference in the SB since Gronk was not healthy. The Pats had no threat that could catch a pass past the 15 yard marker.
It's not whether you win or lose.
It's whether you win.
-Trump 'The Game'
they did it in 2007
BB is not against going all in, however he will only do it when it makes sense. It absolutely makes sense this year. It may happen.
I wouldn't consider 2007 as all in.
Many of those deals were relatively cheap. Adalius Thomas being the only real exception. They also burned a 2nd and 7th on Welker, and a 4th on Moss.
Here you are talking about burning multiple 1sts and multiple 2nds, as well as some high priced FAs. Doesn’t make sense.
I guess it all depends on what you mean by “all in”.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Feb 13, 2012 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
I’d be happy if their all in was finding a way to bring in Mario Williams, re-signing Welker, and getting an o-coodinator friendly deal out of Lloyd.
Turning to the draft, I’m perfectly fine with taking Fletcher Cox at 27, trading out of that 2nd 1st for a 2nd and 2013 first and making the most of those 3 2nd rounders (OL, WR, DB).
Granted, Williams is probably the longest of long shots, but given the direction the league is taking passing game wise, it’s probably a risk worth taking.
by Michael Taylor on Feb 13, 2012 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
I could see some of that.
LLoyd might work a deal to stay with McD. Williams might be a less likely deal than maybe Wayne. Wayne is older, and may be willing to work a deal for the chance at another ring, and to seperate his legacy from Manning’s.
Also wouldn’t be surprised if a more humble Moss showed up at camp. A Moss that wants his career to end on bang rather than a whimper. Williams will likely go wherever the biggest paycheck is. There are other names that might have some other desires that are more important to them at the twilight of their careers.
Now Williams, Lloyd and Welker would be interesting. So would Wayne, Moss, Lloyd, and Welker. There’s not a secondary deep enough on the planet. That’s not even counting the tight-ends.
I think there are some deals that can be done, and some of them make more sense than others. I think that some will be shorter term deals with some potentially older players. Not exactly breaking the bank deals.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Feb 13, 2012 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
I would REALLY hate to be the defensive coordinator
Going up against Wayne, Moss, Lloyd, Welker, Gronkowski, and Hernandez, with Brady at QB, and a promising looking, young backfield with Ridley, Vereen, Law Firm, and Woody, AND a good o-line? No thank you.
by indy pats fan on Feb 13, 2012 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
One benefit is that with Wayne, Moss, and Lloyd all being older, there could spell each other and keep each other fresh.
Once in a while, you toss them all out there and just create havoc.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Feb 13, 2012 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I was thinking that too
Might only be handy for a year or two at best, but that on paper has the possibility of blowing the 07 offense out of the water IMO.
by indy pats fan on Feb 13, 2012 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
It would be the WR version of RBBC - WRBC.
You can always go with the hot hand, but there are different styles that complement as well.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Feb 13, 2012 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
You do realize that only 5 of those guys can play on any given snap.
Personally, I think Moss is done. Wayne is definitely still a good receiver, but, and remember I’m a Colts fan who would love him back, I don’t think he’s that big of an upgrade over Branch. He’s lost quite a bit of speed. He still runs good routes and has good hands, but he’s nowhere near as explosive a player as he once was.
EVH+DLR=BFFs........ God I Hope So!!
Which of those safeties mentioned is the best in coverage? That’s what the Patriots need. In my mind, for the defense to take the next step forward, Chung absolutely cannot be the better safety in pass coverage.
by Michael Taylor on Feb 13, 2012 11:38 AM EST reply actions
True
I like McCourty as safety next year. He’s a good tackler and with the ball in front of him, he’s going to do well IMO. Keep Arrington and Dowling with Moore in the mix. Take a mid round DB and Safety to groom.
It's not whether you win or lose.
It's whether you win.
-Trump 'The Game'
Yeah, we could get by with McC at safety.
I like that he played there. As a captain of the secondary, the more experience he has in different places, the better.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Feb 13, 2012 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
I hope the Pats get Wayne or Colston
Both have proven effective consistently. Lloyd and Bowe have not. Too much money to gamble. Wayne would be the ultimate.
It's not whether you win or lose.
It's whether you win.
-Trump 'The Game'
Wayne is an interesting case.
He might be a good pick-up, but the wild card here is Peyton Manning.
If he goes elsewhere, they might also make a play for his old buddy Wayne. Keep in mind, PeyPey is not getting younger and they’re going to want to maximize however many years he has left. Wayne would do that.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Feb 13, 2012 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
Not sure how many teams can afford that duo though
I don’t think Wayne feels like he has to be tied to Payton to succeed. He’s probably looking for another SB run before his time runs out.
It's not whether you win or lose.
It's whether you win.
-Trump 'The Game'
True
Just saying, that Peyton might be willing to restructure to pick up a familiar face.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Feb 13, 2012 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
do not agree
all wayne has done is prove he can play for one of the best qbs ever. Bowe has proven he can be amazing with a very average qb, as has lloyd. The advantage lloyd has is he has also proven he can play within our system. i would like lloyd, i would be damn right giddy if we get Bowe. he is a straight monster.
To be honest
I would be happy with either of those guys as both look like upgrades over Ochocinco and Branch. But the question here is a) money and b) the ability to play within our system.
by Offensive Jazz Interference on Feb 13, 2012 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
Sure Payton makes average guys look good
But Wayne is the real deal. He put up decent stats this year being doubled while being thrown to by random QBs. He’s a threat deep, short, middle, etc. I’m placing more faith guys that do well long term vs. ones that had only a couple good years.
It's not whether you win or lose.
It's whether you win.
-Trump 'The Game'
I don't understand the Lloyd love
he has had quite literally one and a half good years. Why would you want that on your team.
I want Mario Williams...
Wayne and Colston are nice, very nice – Lloyd too but I can’t imagine Eli marching as effortless down the field w/ Super Mario on the field
Too expensive
Plus, the Pats have lots of young talent on defense. Remember, the lockout really hurt such a young defense – especially considering they switched to 4-3.
The patriots lost the superbowl because of their offense, not their defense. The offense should have put up 30. With Gronk hurt and horrible field position, they just couldn’t do it.
It's not whether you win or lose.
It's whether you win.
-Trump 'The Game'
Horrible field position is partially the defense’s fault.
I’d also question who the young talent on the defense is who excels at pressuring the passer. Mayo and Spikes are high level run defenders, ditto Love. Chung is a safety more proficient in the run game. That leaves McCourty and Ninkovitch really.
To be honest, I think if we’re making a monetary investment this offseason beyond Welker, it should be on defense, not fleshing out the WR core.
by Michael Taylor on Feb 13, 2012 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
Anderson, Wilfork, Love, Deaderick, Nink, Carter (before injury)
Patriots led all teams in postseason sacks. Their defense didn’t come together until the postseason. I like Deaderick and it appears Belichick does too. He had to slap him back to reality last year and he was injured half this year, but I think he’s talented. Love and Wilfork are a nice big tandem. Anderson played great and got better with snap increases. Nink didn’t have a chance to shine until Carter went down and he filled it very well.
Spikes only played half the year and the guy is only showing signs of his full potential. Mayo is solid. He didn’t really make a jump this year as hoped, but he’s still solid.
Field position during SB was great kicking by Giants and average kicking by the Pats. The pats offense didn’t go deep in Giants territory enough and Giants had better starting position. So, I think the defense did well.
Of course I’d love to add a slam dunk LB to the team, but that’s going to be hard. It seems the Pats defense is a bunch of good players and one great player – Wilfork. But unless you get an elite talent somehow, you aren’t really upgrading much. Elite talent on defense is way harder to find and afford than a WR.
It's not whether you win or lose.
It's whether you win.
-Trump 'The Game'
Settle down... remember they got most of those sacks againsts Denver.
- Anderson is a 28 year old UFA (not ours, not young)
- Wilfork is 30 years old (not exactly young)
- Nink is a 28 year old journeyman for most of his career, I’m not ready to call him Vrable.
- Carter is a 32 year old UFA (see Mark Anderson)
Love and Deaderick in my mind are complementary players; not consistently disruptive nor are they irreplaceable.
Williams is elite talent… why wouldn’t you attempt to go after him? He is an upgrade by your definition.
This defense played this year with a rotation of DBs that were taxi squad fodder; so I think we could find serviceable players to make up giving all that money to Willliams.
I should know better than to bang drums with BB in charge (he obviously gets results, and I don’t in NFL terms, haha), but I’d love to see a Mario Williams/Fletcher Cox offseason. It really would serve to push every one else on the defense to way above average for their role. All of a sudden Nink is a weak side pass rusher, Deaderick and Love are role playing DL. The entire secondary is better if offenses no longer have adequate time to throw. I actually do have faith in a nickel secondary of McCourty-Chung-Dowling-Arrington-Moore if the QB is consistently under duress.
by Michael Taylor on Feb 13, 2012 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
i do like cox
n love williams obviously, but both seem unlikely, williams more than cox, however most doubt cox is available at 27. I would love to take him though n trade 31 to early 2nd round and take konz, n a freefalling jenkins (wishful thinking) in the second
I guess 28 is the new 40?
I thought we were talking about short term – all these guys have 4+ years of high productivity with the exception of Carter.
Of course I would like to replace the entire defense with the All Madden Team, but that’s not possible. If they could somehow get Mario Williams, that would be great and I would be first in line to buy his jersey and fathead. I just don’t see them being able to offer him a deal like other teams can (long term, lots of money). He was the 1st overall pick in the draft. Not sure we’ve ever had one of those.
So with that in mind, I’m looking at the defense that gave up 10 less points a game than the offense scored. I think they can improve with a full offseason and a consistent defensive philosophy. I think they can play more like the playoff version than the regular season version. I hope they can have their key players healthy more often.
Plus, once we resign Welker and secure a WR upgrade the entire focus can be on defense. The offense will be 100% set. The O-line seems fine once they figure out who the Center is. Skill positions are loaded. The next couple years can be about upgrading the defense. Switching out some of these guys that are good but not great.
It's not whether you win or lose.
It's whether you win.
-Trump 'The Game'
28 isn't old; its just isn't "young"
I interpreted when you said “young” as “inexperienced, needs to mature, not yet at peak performance”. Did you mean that the Pats defensive talent is in its prime years? Meaning, the performance of players with 3+ years of experience (like Anderson/Wilfork) its at its peak? If that is so I still believe that multiple positions could be upgraded; one of which with elite talent.
No we don’t have the $40mm+ in cap room like Redskins,Bucs, Bengals, Jags, and Chiefs have but we have $20mm, even franchising Welker at the $9.4mm number leaves us over $10mm – thats before restructuring anyone. The Pats cap is in a better position than most teams.
Going to be an interesting free agent season with all the jack that needs to be spent… setting up a lot like the housing bubble.
With all those teams in the mix
Williams is near impossible to get. Dan Snyder hates money and will do whatever it takes to spend it as quickly as possible on the biggest FA available.
The guys you listed are 28+ and are in their prime. I can’t argue much with their production. Nink played great late in the year. The guys that fall under before their prime are Love, Deaderick, Spikes. All young guys that will be forces – or at least 2/3 of them should be.
It's not whether you win or lose.
It's whether you win.
-Trump 'The Game'
Whats the price? Where is the talent?
If the Pats don’t explore a disruptive game changer like Williams they’re crazy. The Pats lost the SB as a team, all the defense needed to do was pick up a fumble, not jump offside or just shut down one drive… none of that happened. You know the Giants have a pretty good defense
The Pats have younger players but I question the amount of talent…
- Defensive line – I see young serviceable rotational players (Pryor, Love, Brace, Deadrick). Every other D-lineman is over 30
- Linebackers – Outside of Mayo & Spikes there isn’t game changing talent, Ninkovich and Fletcher are complementary players; I don’t believe either of them will provide cheaply replaceable WAR (to borrow a baseball metric). The young guy is Cunningham… as much as I would love to see him be a star I just don’t see it happening.
- Secondary – Wow… where do I begin here? Chung, McCourty, Dowling (complete guess but to early to give up) and what else? Maybe Arrington? Maybe?
So where is all this young talent?
by Nuf Ced on Feb 13, 2012 1:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Kind of how I view the defense. They have a whole lot of solid, but they’re missing that one elite guy. For all the good the defense did, they didn’t force a single 3 and out during the Super Bowl. The punts they forced were 10, 8, 7, and 10 play drives. The offense heated up and found a rhythm around half time (pats get 17) the D responded by allowing a 10, 9, 10, and 9 play drives. Rhythm Gone.
The offense is the exact opposite in my mind, assuming we return Wes, I’d argue we have a minimum of 4 elite players on offense, and could argue Mankins as a 5th. Really, that 4th target in the passing game needs to be solid, not elite. He’s just needs to be able to take advantage of single coverage in the ways Branch/Johnson couldn’t.
by Michael Taylor on Feb 13, 2012 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
correction
“I don’t believe either of them will provide cheaply replaceable WAR (to borrow a baseball metric)”
meant to read
“I believe either of them provide cheaply replaceable WAR (to borrow a baseball metric)”
Meaning similar production is findable at low cost
LB is not a weakness (if we get anderson back (a must) and play the 3-4)
honestly if there is any player in our lb corps whom i believe not to be worth his contract it is mayo. Loved him on his rookie wages but he is not at all worth p willis money. He is by all accounts steady and a great leader and locker room presence. But not really a game changer. i used to give him the benefit of the doubt and blame it on the way bb utilizes him, but when he was out and spikes replaced him i felt like the level of play increased at the position instead of decreased. He is good but not irreplaceable. i mean how much of a dropoff would there be if we start spikes and fletcher or draft dontae hightower to put alongside spikes? Spikes is the real gem and leader of our lb corps. I love him. But honestly i do not like spending that money on mayo. Much rather have spent the money on williams and replace mayo in the draft. Mayo is replaceable, a game changer like williams is not.
You can't really put a price on this
He is by all accounts steady and a great leader and locker room presence.
Ask the Jets.
Mayo may not make the highlight reel each and every Sunday, but I absolutely credit him in aiding the cohesion of a topsy-turvy, ever-changing defense that came one bounce away from winning a Super Bowl.
Can I Scream?
Wow... never thought about it like that
I can’t disagree that Mayo has essentially been just solidly unspectacular…
I have been writing/saying this about Mayo for years. As great of a tackler he is, he is very much overrated.
He isn’t a true playmaker. You can go games without hearing his name. That’s not spectacular. Patrick Willis is spectacular.
In GOD I TRUST>In BB i trust......faith where it belongs!!
Life is about who makes it, not who makes it the fastest! Drive slow homie.
There's not a player that will fit their system that they won't do due diligence on.
They have a folder on everybody. That doesn’t mean they will sell the farm for them, though.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Feb 13, 2012 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
agreed
they will not sell the farm for anyone. and i agree with that philosphy. hence why im a little bummed we are paying mayo so much. he is not wilfork. i do not get it. And i definitely do not see us paying 15 million a year plus 2 first round picks for williams. dont see it happening, dont think it should happen. not when we only have 20 million to spend. I want to make a stab at being great next year, but it must be done responsibly.
One thing that Mayo does as the "green dot" is call out the play and get guys into position.
He’s one of the reasons our “plug and pray” defense worked out so well this year. When they were awfull, he got them on the same page as the field general.
I’m fine with what he’s making. Keep in mind that the Patriots don’t overpay a guy, so Hoodie must like what they see in him and think he’s worth it.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Feb 13, 2012 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
I agree
with both you and fox, what he brings is valuable, but i do believe and the fact that we were able to perform as well without him as with him, that we have other players that can bring that leadership and gdot ability. in other words if a williams for mayo trade was offered (which it wont be), i dont even mull it over. use a 2nd round pick on hightower, call it a day.
My sentiments exactly.
In GOD I TRUST>In BB i trust......faith where it belongs!!
Life is about who makes it, not who makes it the fastest! Drive slow homie.
Really?
Plus, the Pats have lots of young talent on defense.
In GOD I TRUST>In BB i trust......faith where it belongs!!
Life is about who makes it, not who makes it the fastest! Drive slow homie.
Brandon Spikes, Devin McCourty
I’m not willing to write McCourty completely off because of one bad season. He’s still young and showed great versatility in switching to safety and playing pretty well.
Can I Scream?
I mentioned them too
But for some reason, once I inadvertently deleted the body of my comment, you can’t read it, lol.
Keep the faith!
I definitely believe we need Goldson
Mario is a pipe dream. He will be franchised and resigned, We are not getting him. But dashon could be a good help for the team, more like necessary help. I like McCourty at safety as much as the next pats fan. However he does not shore up the position. Chung really disappointed me last year. Not that he is horrible, but he def didnt make the jump i expected. his super bowl was atrocious (outside of that hit on nicks), how many missed tackles did he have? when will he learn he is only 5’10 and stop trying to lay everyone out, just make a damn TACKLE, no need to try and kill everyone only to bounce off them and let them gain an extra 2yards. On top of that he is an absolute injury concern so long as his playing style does not change, and therefore having Goldson there would be a big help. If chung makes the jump and stays healthy, then by all means start him alongside goldson and push DMcC to cb, if not McCourty is there at safety. Either way we can use Goldson. While we are at it we absolutely should draft another cb. they are sooo valuable in this league. Jenkins, minnifield and kirkpatrick will probably all be available and a smart pick up in the first or second
Good points
It’s hard to fault a guy for injury, but Chung is small and thinks he’s a mack truck. Plus he needs work in coverage.
I also think next year is critical for McCourty no matter what position he plays. He looked like a draft day steal his rookie year and a bust last year. We can’t have a 17th pick play like that two years in a row.
Having a reliable safety could do wonders for the entire secondary.
It's not whether you win or lose.
It's whether you win.
-Trump 'The Game'
I disagree about him looking bad last year
As I believe it was Richard who pointed out, a lot of the plays that looked bad for McCourty this last year was due to inept safety play. That’s not to say he never made mistakes or anything, just that the safety play is a huge reason for the “dropoff” between his rookie and sophomore seasons.
by indy pats fan on Feb 13, 2012 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
Come on
I’d love for him to be a great CB and he might be one day, but he was torched over and over and over again. Blaming that on safety play gives him a HUGE crutch. Every CB in the league could use that as an excuse.
Plus, if you look at the excellent McCourty film breakdowns on Pats Pulpit, they showed major technique flaws that were exposed on a regular basis. That’s not the safeties fault. They need to correct that in the offseason. If they are going to address the secondary this offseason, they need to figure out if he will be FS or CB ASAP and work with him on that position. He has plenty of talent and he is a hard worker, so I think he puts this year behind him.
It's not whether you win or lose.
It's whether you win.
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i disagree on chung being a liability in coverage
I think he is definitely talented enough in coverage. I just want him to play more fundamentally sound. i mean even in the manningham catch he took a great angle and was right there to help out. only reason he was so out of position was cuz he was doing what coach told him to do, let manningham be the one to beat us.maybe ha could of swiped at the ball instead of hitting him but that is nitpicking. however he was awful against the run. way to many missed HITS. Tackle chung, stop hitting and just TACKLE!!!! PLEASE!
That stiffarm didn't look to good
That was a big run.
But with the Mayo ballet move in the endzone on Cruz TD and 12 men on the field negating a fumble, it probably got overlooked.
It's not whether you win or lose.
It's whether you win.
-Trump 'The Game'
dont even remind me about the mayo ballet
patrick willis money should get you more than that. i love the guy, mayo is great, but that contract makes non fiscal sense.
Ugghhhh
I guess I haven’t moved on yet. I shouldn’t even bring up the plays burned into my memory.
It's not whether you win or lose.
It's whether you win.
-Trump 'The Game'
i feel you man
it still hurts. o and nink timed it perfectly, was not offsides.
Williams’ franchise tag is $23.9m, and the Texans if I’m not mistaken are at/around the cap, and already have two really good edge guys. The odds aren’t in our favor to sign Williams, but I don’t think it’s at all a lock that he ends up in Houston.
My only concern with Goldson is every time I read his scounting report, I see “liability in coverage” that’s exactly the type of safety the Patriots don’t need. They need a guy who is basically another CB that is a reliable tackler.
by Michael Taylor on Feb 13, 2012 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
The Patriots and Texans aren't the only teams in the mix
It's not whether you win or lose.
It's whether you win.
-Trump 'The Game'
6 picks last year
he can do his job in coverage. especially in the sense that he does what he is told and takes good angles. if he was a liability before last year, i would be willing to blame that on how he was utilized by coaching staff. He had an outstanding year. the niners backfield in the playoffs was unbelievable. he would be a huge addition to our team.
Mario & the franchise tag can't happen
The franchise tag for a DE is $23mm…
Houston has $3.3 million of cap space…
it can, and it will my friend
wish it wouldnt but no way they let him go without compensation. it would be unforgivable.
I thought Underwood was supposed to do that
Not sure why he was even on the team. To run 3 go routes and miss on all of them?
It's not whether you win or lose.
It's whether you win.
-Trump 'The Game'
thank you!!!!
why everyone was up in arms about him getting cut blew my mind, i was more vexed why we have a 5th wr who cant catch nor return kicks all year. why not at least get a guy who can do the latter.
Woodhead is more question than answer.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Feb 13, 2012 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
Returning for the Bengals if memory serves.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Feb 13, 2012 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
Patrick Chung Football Academy
Patrick Chung and some of his New England Patriots teammates will be hosting a camp for kids ages 7-18 this summer. Check out www.footballcamps.com for more detials.
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