New England Patriots Links 2/17/12 - McShay Thinks Pats May Choose WR, CB or S

by Marima on Feb 17, 2012 7:50 AM EST in New England Patriots Links

Mike Reiss reports draft analyst Todd McShay shared his insight as to some of the "value" areas that could be there for the Patriots in the late first round.

Receiver: "Michael Floyd [of Notre Dame] would be a good fit, a guy who can get down the field and has some size. Kendall Wright [of Baylor] I think also could be a good fit; he’s undersized like some of their other guys, but he has explosive, explosive speed. He can get down the field and provide that big play, vertically, that they’ve been missing. He also can help in the return game should they choose and he’s great after the catch."

Cornerback: "It will be interesting to see if any of these corners drop. By any of them, I mean Dre Kirkpatrick from Alabama. Obviously Bill Belichick has a great relationship with Nick Saban and will have a great feel for Kirkpatrick and whether he fits what they want to do or not. He certainly looks like a corner who would fit what they like in terms of the versatility. He’s not an elite man-to-man cover corner, but very instinctive in zone. The knock on him, outside of the baggage, is that he gets there and bats down a lot of balls and is in position to make tackles after the catch, but doesn’t make a lot of big plays. Janoris Jenkins would be another guy, a Florida guy who was dismissed from the team and played at North Alabama this past season. I think he has very good man-to-man cover skills and certainly can play on the outside for them and I think would upgrade their corner situation."

Safety: "Mark Barron from Alabama could drop a little bit [hernia]. He won’t be working out at the combine." Pass rushers: "Chandler Jones, the Syracuse defensive end, I know I’m probably higher on him than most guys. But I do think he has a chance to be a really good player and I love his versatility. I think he would fit New England from that perspective. Andre Branch is another one, out of Clemson – 6-4, 260, could play defensive end but also could drop when they go back and forth in their four-man front and three-man front. There is some depth to this class. Ronnell Lewis is another one, from Oklahoma. They can find a pass rusher should they decide to draft one."

TEAM TALK

Michael Jurovaty writes Patriots RBs coach Ivan Fears recalls his journey from promising player to committed coach.
2012 NFL Scouting Combine - Feb. 22-28: A quick primer.

LOCAL LINKS

Mike Reiss crafts a deal for Wes Welker that will work for both sides.
Ian Rapoport looks at the backup QB situation and believes the Patriots will hold on to Brian Hoyer while Ryan Mallett continues to improve.
CSNNE reports Sterling Moore is a professional football player, but that doesn't mean he doesn't use Coinstar just like the rest of us.
Christopher Price profiles free agent WR Brandon LLoyd as a possible fit for the Patriots.
Mike Reiss shares what we learned about the 2012 NFL Draft from Todd McShay on a conference call yesterday.
Tom E. Curran explains why Cris Carter misses the point on why wideouts aren't valued.
Luke Hughes reports Joe Flacco's agent believes the QB deserves Tom Brady money.
Mike Reiss offers the transcript of his weekly online chat.
Mike Reiss serves up some additional leftovers from his weekly online chat.
Ian Rapoport notes Danny Woodhead has been back home in Nebraska, reconnecting with family and friends and, of course, taking in a UFC bout.

NATIONAL NEWS

Kevin Fishbain (Pro Football Weekly) Patriots look to change luck in drafting WRs.
Nicholas Pike (NFL UK) International Series survey reveals Tom Brady is your favourite player.
James Walker (ESPN) Top 40 players in the AFC East: Nos. 13-16 and Nos. 9-12.
Chris Burke (SI) Free Agency Primer: AFC East.
Pete Prisco (CBS Sports) Let's make a match: Finding the best free agent for your team.
Cian Fahey (St. Louis Post-Dispatch) Brandon Lloyd and 5 re-signings which will shape Free Agency before it starts.
Report (NFL.com) Notable free agents in the 2012 class.
Report (NFL.com) 2012 Scouting Combine news and info.
Albert Breer (NFL.com) Questions abound heading into NFL Scouting Combine.
Mike Mayock (NFLN) Pre-Combine position rankings for 2012 NFL Draft.
Bucky Brooks (NFL.com) Ranking receivers, tight ends entering NFL Scouting Combine.
Bucky Brooks (NFL.com) Offensive linemen pool appears deep heading to the Combine.
Mike Florio (ProFootballTalk) Condon's comments hint that tampering will be rampant next week.
Matt Bowen (Nat'l Football Post) Why the 40-yard dash is still the ultimate combine test.
Wes Bunting (Nat'l Football Post) Breaking down which offensive prospects need a big week in Indy.
Gregg Rosenthal (ProFootballTalk) Forecasting the franchise tags.
Matt Bowen (Nat'l Football Post) NFL Draft: How to grade the CB position.
Mike Freeman (CBS Sports) Late hits: Why do so many former NFL players go broke?
Michael David Smith (ProFootballTalk) Rex Ryan planning on getting a Super Bowl ring, quickly.
Brad Biggs (Chicago Tribune) Increase in touchbacks led to decrease in concussions on kickoffs.

Tweet Comment 48 comments | 1 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

Hmm...McShay says

we might choose WR. Or CB. Or S.

This is news. McShay knows nothing about anything.

Lakers and Patriots forever.

by D.S.T. on Feb 17, 2012 8:57 AM EST reply actions

I found it interesting that he didn't choose the obvious

as every expert has done for the last 3 or 4 years – and pick DE/OLB.

Keep the faith!

by Marima on Feb 17, 2012 9:37 AM EST up reply actions

But we're drafting 10 DE/OLB's in this draft.

Right in between the Center, 2 WR, returner, blocking TE, and backup QB.

Why mention it if it is a sure thing.

The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Feb 17, 2012 10:41 AM EST up reply actions

And all of them in the first two rounds.

by Lythos on Feb 19, 2012 8:33 AM EST up reply actions

Crazy

They didn’t draft a top pass rusher last year and almost every analyst (and me) soiled themselves. Mel Kiper’s hairline receded one inch that day.

Now, both FA’s they picked up are FA’s again and nobody is really mentioning a pass rusher. It’s all about WRs and DBs. I can see why though. I feel comfortable if the Pats sign Anderson and/or Carter. If they get one, Nink can play the other side. It’s not the most fearsome tandem in the NFL, but Ninkovich did come on late and the Pats were getting push up the middle while limiting the run as well.

I have no clue how to value WRs and DBs in the early rounds though. It seems BB has the same issue.

It's not whether you win or lose.
It's whether you win.
-Trump 'The Game'

by iLikeStuff on Feb 17, 2012 10:45 AM EST up reply actions

Nink kind of got pushed down the depth chart early.

Between the 4-3 thing and the number of experienced outside rushers, it looked like he might not have a role.

Once Carter went down, and opening emerged (along with a switch back to 3-4), and he seized the opportunity with both hands. I’m hoping it’s only uphill for him from here on in. I get Vrabel flashbacks from him all the time.

The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Feb 17, 2012 10:52 AM EST up reply actions

He was starting when Carter was healthy though wasn't he?

I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP

by Jack'sAxe on Feb 17, 2012 9:48 PM EST up reply actions

Not as many snaps

The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Feb 17, 2012 10:26 PM EST up reply actions

But Carter played DE

not 4-3 OLB….

With Spikes injured a lot, I figured the LB position was mostly something like this: Fletcher, Mayo, Nink

0.o

by Jack'sAxe on Feb 18, 2012 9:42 AM EST up reply actions

Carter played DE in the 4-3.

Nink didn’t always play in the 4-3, since there was one less linebacker.

When they went to 3-4 (without Carter), he got a lot more snaps.

The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Feb 20, 2012 12:09 PM EST up reply actions

But Nink played as a 4-3 OLB as well....

With some snaps as a 4-3 DE.

by Jack'sAxe on Feb 20, 2012 3:29 PM EST up reply actions

Nink started behind Anderson, Ellis Carter, and others as a 4-3 DE.

As a 4-3 OLB, he was in rotation, but hell, Mayo played OLB as well (with Spikes as Mike). There were a lot of guys out there.

All I’m saying, is that when they switched primarily to 3-4 again (after Carter went down vs the Broncos), Nink became a starter opposite Anderson as OLB. Nink’s snap count went up from earlier in the year.

So in 4-3 with Carter healthy, Nink’s role was less than in 3-4 with Carter out. Believe it or not, I care not. I’m not going to go and get all the snap counts. It’s not that important to me.

The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
As the Greek philosopher Mediocrites once said, "Eh, it's good enough."

by SlotMachinePlayer on Feb 20, 2012 3:53 PM EST up reply actions

No I believe it. lol

He was in a rotation at OLB in the 4-3, but it did feel as if he was the primary starter next to Mayo there until Fletcher and Spikes got healthy. In any case, his snaps went up as they went into the 3-4.

by Jack'sAxe on Feb 20, 2012 7:50 PM EST up reply actions

Pulpiteers provide better draft coverage

Come see the violence inherent in the system, help help I'm being repressed.

by sweetjesusihatethejets on Feb 17, 2012 8:59 AM EST reply actions

Agreed.

I learn a heck of a lot from people here who are very well informed about college football and the value of players going into the draft. It’s amazing, and even though I can’t contribute to those discussions I love to read them and just take in all the info I can before the draft.

Keep the faith!

by Marima on Feb 17, 2012 9:35 AM EST up reply actions

Why did Pats take Solder last year (early)?

If this year is deep in OL, why did we “reach” for Solder last year? Is he a once in a lifetime talent that BB could not pass up? I think he’s good and can be very good but just wondering.

It's not whether you win or lose.
It's whether you win.
-Trump 'The Game'

by iLikeStuff on Feb 17, 2012 10:29 AM EST reply actions

The simple answer is Belichick tries to get the best value for each position each year and tries to field the best team he can each year.

He doesn’t really look ahead to future years (past stocking up on picks), because this year is uncertain, and next year is even more so.

It would probably make more sense to wait a year for a safety, but we might snag one anyway.

The more complicated answer is that Solder was also very good. He filled in nicely for Vollmer, was used as an extra blocking TE, and really got a lot of snaps for a rookie. He beat out the veteran backups at his position. From a first rounder, you want a guy that can fill in right away and he did. He is one of our future starting tackles (once Light is done), and a first rounder isn’t a reach for that.

The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Feb 17, 2012 10:48 AM EST up reply actions

Von Miller told them to:

Von Miller thinks so….

Question: Who is the best opposing player you’ve faced in your college career?

Von Miller: “Nate Solder. He’s a beast! When you’re that big and you’re that quick, it’s real scary for guys like me. He can match you on every step. And I went against other guys: Jason Smith, Trent Williams and Russell Okung. All of those guys are great. But Nate Solder’s excellent.”

The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Feb 17, 2012 11:44 AM EST up reply actions

OL

is never a bad position to draft high because there is less uncertainty in how it translates to the professional leagues.

They’re usually very safe picks, and if you’re typically not a contender without a solid QB at the helm, it becomes a very underrated position when the task then becomes to keep said QB upright and throwing.

We all want to see a big impact player from another position taken in the first round, but you can’t deny that these are the guys behind the scenes allowing Brady to do what he does. As is the case with nearly every team, the Patriots are nothing with the QB under constant duress.

Can I Scream?

by Adam Fox on Feb 17, 2012 11:48 AM EST up reply actions

Because this draft isn't deep in the LT position

There are huge G, and 3 decent C but the OT position is not extremely deep in this draft. Plus they weren’t sure about Light as he wasn’t signed yet due to the CBA status last year.

by waldoon on Feb 17, 2012 12:43 PM EST up reply actions

In hindsight

I think the Solder pick was a beautiful one.

We’re not going to get a chance at Kalil, Rieff or Adams in this draft. Is there any player you would want over Solder left after that. I say definitely no.

What worries me some is the buzz out of scouts that they don’t see any real quality when it comes to pass rushers. Not to mention the safety class that’s pretty weak in my mind.

The upside (for us) in this draft is the depth of wide receivers.

But I may be overreaction since the overall talent is judged to be very good and this draft class might be the better in a while.

by BJA on Feb 17, 2012 1:23 PM EST up reply actions

Adams

faced some speed rushers in the B1G but for the most part its a lot of bull rushers. Also throw in he was part of the tattoo 5. I wasn’t exactly impressed by him.

by cmdpsu15 on Feb 18, 2012 7:08 PM EST up reply actions

Clarification

This OT class is not very deep, last year Solder was viewed by most as a developmental LT because he was a former TE who struggled with anchor strength and had some technique issues.

Had Solder played OT his whole college career and bulked up sooner, he likely would have been a top-10 pick. The Patriots had a top-10 grade on Solder which is why the jumped all over him at 17, I’m sure Dante had a lot to do with that grade and the selection….I think we saw a lot of upside with Solder, he’s a very good run-blocker and played pretty damn well against Cameron Wake.

We did see some of the issues pop up that caused him to slide outside the top-10 but all in all, I think Pats fans, and most importantly TB & BB, will be very happy with Solder going forward.

by Panimal4422 on Feb 17, 2012 2:28 PM EST up reply actions

Also, the Pats were very unsure about Matt Light after the 2010 season.

He had a pretty mediocre year, and was a free agent. If there wasn’t a lockout, I’m not so sure they would have brought him back. They brought him back because they didn’t want to thrust Solder into the fire too early, but he ended up having to anyway when Vollmer went down. So, in hindsight, the pick was brilliant because Matt Light had a phenomenal year and Solder filled in for Vollmer nicely until he could come back. It’s going to be interesting to see what they do this year with the tackle position.

"Fight on, my men!" Sir Andrew said, "A little I'm hurt, but not yet slain. I'll just lay down and bleed awhile... and then I'll rise, and fight again!"

by BigRussNovak on Feb 17, 2012 5:39 PM EST up reply actions

is this a serious question?

Cuz he was a great pick thats why, of all the picks to question you wonder why we took a future all pro book end at 17? really?

by AMORALES on Feb 18, 2012 12:10 AM EST up reply actions

Anybody else read Marima's headline and think "Well looks like we'll draft a o-lineman" or is that just me haha

"These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters." -Bill Belichick

by Pats1281 on Feb 17, 2012 10:54 AM EST reply actions

I'm pretty sure we'll end up with a center, personally.

The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Feb 17, 2012 11:39 AM EST up reply actions

Good OTs are a scarce commodity

In The War Room the scouts were amazed that Solder never got knocked off his feet, BB also liked Tyron Smith saying there weren’t 3 or 4 better players in the whole draft. It also talks about how they want to know how each player fits with the Pats, who he’s going to replace and when.

Come see the violence inherent in the system, help help I'm being repressed.

by sweetjesusihatethejets on Feb 17, 2012 11:06 AM EST reply actions

Outstanding book

Keep the faith!

by Marima on Feb 17, 2012 11:23 AM EST up reply actions

I liked Von Miller's endorsement of Nate Solder:

Von Miller thinks so….

Question: Who is the best opposing player you’ve faced in your college career?

Von Miller: "Nate Solder. He’s a beast! When you’re that big and you’re that quick, it’s real scary for guys like me. He can match you on every step. And I went against other guys: Jason Smith, Trent Williams and Russell Okung. All of those guys are great. But Nate Solder’s excellent."

The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Feb 17, 2012 11:42 AM EST up reply actions

Thanks again, Marima, for the side order of links with my breakfast.

The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Feb 17, 2012 11:56 AM EST reply actions 2 recs

Obvious picks are obvious

what I’m more concerned with is what should we pick for depth. It seems like every year problems open up that we didn’t expect to open up, because of injuries or underperformance – last year it was the backfield, the year before the d-line. So, what should we try and anticipate it being this year? I’d go with O-line because thats so essential to our team. Do we know for sure if Waters is coming back?

Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner

by New Century Silver on Feb 17, 2012 12:24 PM EST reply actions

Not sure yet with Waters

Can’t tell you how impressed I was with him over the course of the season. Ocho and Haynesworth got all the attention, but Waters, Carter and Anderson were the ones who should have merited it.

Keep the faith!

by Marima on Feb 17, 2012 12:30 PM EST up reply actions

I really hope Waters returns. He locked down that RG spot and he had to have been

a great influence on our young Olinemen.

by The Qwan on Feb 17, 2012 12:40 PM EST up reply actions

I agree about Waters

But I still hope they pick up Mike Brewster and Brandon Brooks with 3rd round picks if they maneuver in the draft.

by waldoon on Feb 17, 2012 12:46 PM EST up reply actions

I wouldnt complain if we drafted interior linemen this year.

C and RG are a concern going forward. You need depth and you need to development future starters. I think Waters, should he return, mentoring rookies next year would only benefit them.

by The Qwan on Feb 17, 2012 4:55 PM EST up reply actions

I think Belichick will kick Cannon to RG when Waters retires.

He’s got tremendous size and is strong as an ox. With Solder and Vollmer lining up at OT, they would be wasting Cannon’s talent using him as a second string Tackle/third TE.

"Fight on, my men!" Sir Andrew said, "A little I'm hurt, but not yet slain. I'll just lay down and bleed awhile... and then I'll rise, and fight again!"

by BigRussNovak on Feb 17, 2012 5:42 PM EST up reply actions

On Waters and the Center position

Brian Waters and Matt Light were all-pro caliber players this year, whatever Brian Waters wants, the Pats should oblige.

I know Peter Konz will be a guy who gets mentioned at the end of Round-1 but I think it would be ideal for the Patriots to wait for Philip Blake out of Baylor.

Blake is 26 years old but he would likely be a late 1st-Rounder with Konz if he were 22. To me, the Patriots can afford to use a late 3rd round-pick on a guy like that who has few flaws and can step right in and start for the next 6 years. Well worth a late 3rd rounder.

by Panimal4422 on Feb 17, 2012 2:35 PM EST reply actions

worth a 3rd rounder especially when you consider some of our recent 3rd round picks

by The Qwan on Feb 17, 2012 4:55 PM EST up reply actions

Under the radar free agents

One player that did not help himself was Anthony Spencer of the Cowboys who had an underwhelming year.

In my mind he would be an interesting player to check out. Would at the very least give us depth at OLB.

by BJA on Feb 17, 2012 2:39 PM EST reply actions

Spencer's game

I believe that Spencer had a far better season as a run-stopper and really didn’t bring a ton of production as a pass-rusher….Pro Football Focus is a great source because the scout every snap of every player to determine how effective they were in each arena of Defense.

by Panimal4422 on Feb 17, 2012 2:44 PM EST up reply actions

Drafting a WR

It’s interesting to see that when a Draft Class has a deep WR pool (or the WR’s start coming off the board in the 20’s) that more often than not there is talent at the end of Round-1 that ends up panning out.

Rueben Randle has a lot of similarities to Dwayne Bowe who went 23rd overall to K.C., in fact some of Randle’s traits are superior to Bowe’s especially considering how terrible the QB play was at LSU in 2011.

At worst Randle will be an on the numbers WR who runs mostly deep to intermediate routes and has to develop the underneath game, but he shows savvy as a route runner and is considered a hard worker, a great combo for learning the full route tree and pre/post snap adjustments here in N.E…just my take.

by Panimal4422 on Feb 17, 2012 2:42 PM EST reply actions

Time is short for Brady

The Pats will probably not draft a WR early in the 2012 draft. They will most likely sign Brandon Lloyd. They will need a WR that can make an impact now. He is very familiar with McDaniels offense and the transition would be seamless. He also wants to play for McDaniels. The Pats should be able to sign him for a reasonable price. Pats should be looking for high impact players on defense early in the draft.

by PVS53 on Feb 17, 2012 3:54 PM EST reply actions

I wouldnt say short, maybe shorter.

I still think he has a at least 4 elite years left, he takes realy good care of himself, and his freak brain of his makes up for father time’s effects. Barring no injuies, 4 years is reasonable.

by BAMF. on Feb 17, 2012 4:13 PM EST via mobile up reply actions

i love janoris

Would be very happy snagging Jenkins. Jenkins fletcher cox and a center n im ecstatic with first 2rounds. Streeter in the third. That plus whatever else we do in draft plus goldson and Lloyd n maybe Robinson n we would be at the very least paper offseason champán.

by AMORALES on Feb 17, 2012 5:02 PM EST via mobile reply actions

I think we can all relate http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/1071344-final-super-bowl-thoughts-how-a-kid-had-his-heart-broken-and-learned-a-lesson

by alweezy61 on Feb 19, 2012 2:19 PM EST via Android app reply actions

Am I the only one who isn't looking for a high-DB pick in the draft?

I think our oldest DB is 25ish. Ras-i-Dowling and Sterling Moore will be sophmores. If McCourty can get his groove back, if we can keep Arrington at the slot where he excels, and pickup a veteran Safety to bring some experience to the backend, then all we need to worry about is a 3rd Safety to be the primary backup.

Pats are too old at WR(Welker, Branch, Ocho) and 3-4 DE(Ellis, Warren, Wilfork getting there..). At C, Koppen is up there and I think Connolly proved himself a great backup but not a great starter. An electric DE/OLB wouldn’t be bad, either.

It is what it is

by Middlesex on Feb 19, 2012 8:45 PM EST reply actions