Stop Starting Brady
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 12:15 PM EST
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Greetings Pats fans, I would say good morning but we all know its not. I'll be making a separate fan post for assorted SuperBowl thoughts.
Now, as the title says, I think we should stop starting Brady. Before you say I'm just upset about the loss or looking for someone to blame, hear me out.
I do not blame the loss on Brady. I do not think Brady is playing badly - instead, I'd say 2010-2011 have probably been the best back-to-back years of his career. However, football is, at times, a team sport. Look at all the teams that have crashed and burned after losing a SuperBowl - the Colts of 2009, the Cardinals of 2008, the Pats of 2007 entered a rebuilding stage that may not have ended yet, the Bears of 2006, etc. None of these teams have come back for the SuperBowl the next year, and most have looked downright awful.
So assuming this trend continues, I'd say the best we can hope for is a good rebuilding year in 2012, and maybe 2013. Brady's contract runs out in 2014, so that gives us a really slim window, if a window at all, to get Brady a 4th ring. And thats just talking about getting to the SuperBowl - if recent history is any thing to go on, even if we get there we'll require massive luck to win it.
Or, I guess I'll say it like this: This wasn't 2007. We had momentum. Our D was playing the best it has all year. Our O played absolutely perfect against the Broncos, failed against the Ravens, and yet we still won. The Giants pass rush wasn't there. We had chances for turnovers. If we can't win the SB this year, I don't think we'll be doing it for a while.
So, if Brady isn't likely to win any more SBs in his career, why keep starting him? Getting Mallet actual game experience, and preparing to lead another dynasty should become the primary goal. And if Mallet turns out to not be our guy, we have 2+ years during which we can just swap back in our x3 Superbowl Champion, x2 MVP, and first ballet HOFer QB for the while we work it out. This is a scenario beyond which any other team, besides perhaps the Colts can even dream about.
Now clearly I am not suggesting we trade Brady. Brady needs to stay here and be a positive influence for Mallet, with the goal being to make the transition as smooth as possible. Certain game situations, maybe even certain games in which Brady's play style and experience would be of value can still be left to him.
Furthermore, this scenario benefits Brady himself just as much as it does the team. If he starts taking, say, 1/3rd of the snaps he used to, he'll be taking less hits, having less situations in which he could be injured, etc. Ideally, this will keep him as low-mileage as possible. Whereas a starting Brady would have to retire in 2014-2016, if he only gets brought out for certain situations couldn't that push his retirement age up to 2017+?
There is no downside to what I'm suggesting. Like I said, if Mallet doesn't work out, we'll just put Brady in like we used and be back to square #1.
So heres my conclusion: even if we go 12-4, 13-3, or 14-2 next year, no matter who we start the Brady era is over. I can see no scenario in which we win another SuperBowl with him leading the team. The focus now should be on making any transition as smooth as possible, ideally making things easiest on everyone involved: Brady, by avoiding a Favre scenario in which he wants to play but is getting hurt on every play, Mallet, by giving him a solid 2+ years for him to transition and get used to things, and finally the Patriots organization by giving them 2+ years of "try before you buy" with whatever QB(s) they like best.
The views expressed in these FanPosts are not necessarily those of the writers or SBNation.
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"I can see no scenario in which we win another SuperBowl with him leading the team."
What kind of bullshit is this? Why not? What makes you think Brady can’t keep playing well til the end of his contract? And Why is it all Brady to win a SB, build a better defense and get more play makers around Brady and the team can get to another SB. It’s not all on brady to win games and there are other guys on the field.
And if you don’t start Brady, he’ll want out. Why would he waste his twilight years on the bench when he can play else where. If that happens, honestly i would want Brady to go to the a division team and wreck the pats for year for the sheer stupidity of not wanting him to play simply based on a dumb assumption he can’t win another one despite no proof of it.
I Agree, the writer is a morone!
There are 52 other guys that are part of this team. Why take out a guy who is at the top of his game out? While your at it take Wilfork out so he can mentor somebody that has potential(maybe). We have plenty of weaknesses that need to adressed but not a QB.
Steve in Houston
Your argument is premised on a weak assumption.
So, if Brady isn’t likely to win any more SBs in his career, why keep starting him?
The “If Brady isn’t likely to win anymore SBs in his career” assumption is flawed. He is no less likely to win one of the next four SBs than Rodgers, Brees, Roethlisberger or either of the Mannings. There’s no evidence to suggest a statistical decline. Brady made a number of clutch throws last night, including at one point going 15-for-15 while scoring two TDs. His receivers really let him down, and the injury to Gronk really disrupted the offense’s rhythm.
So if you proceed from your flawed assumption, then I think we all have to agree, but your assumption is a poor basis for the proposition that the Brady era should be ended.
No, my arguement is premised on 10+ years of history
2010 SB loser – too early to tell
2009 SB loser – Colts have gone from a dominant team to the worst team
2008 SB loser – Cardinals don’t compete, despite playing in an easy division
2007 SB loser – It took three years of rebuilding, and thats basically the best anyone has done
2006 SB loser – Bears are stuck being average
2005 SB loser – Was the last time the Seahawks had anything to cheer about
2004 SB loser – Eagles got one good year, and even they couldn’t make it past the AFCCG
2003 SB loser – Best thing thats happened to the Panthers is Newton, and even that didn’t so much as get em into the playoffs
Why do you expect us to be able to just go back to normal after a SB loss when none of tehse teams could?
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
The Bears are stuck at being average? The Colts have gone to the worst?
Awful conclusions. Both teams have been successful, the Colts were in 2010, and then were hit with injuries to key players.
Tom Brady. Nuff said.
Colts were the worst team last year
thats a fact… and even without Manning, they would have been lucky to get a wild-card. As for the Bears, they can’t consistently win their division.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
with Manning*
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
Colts are bad because they made bad personnel moves AND lost manning but i think they win the division with manning. Brady, Brees, and Rodgers played great with piss poor defenses. Manning could have won with their bad defense since he’s as good as anyone when he’s healthy.
Pats 2011 defense is middle of the pack with constant cuts, pickups, and injuries
Without those we’re a top-10 defense.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
Scoring and yards both count.
Awful in yardage and average in scoring does not equal middle of the pack.
Tom Brady. Nuff said.
eh
I tend to think it was simply time for a passing of the torch to the Texans. I’m not all that sold the Colts would’ve won the division with Manning. The Texans defense was that good.
That said, I do think the Colts would’ve been a playoff contender if Peyton had been healthy.
So much wrong in this
Cardinals made the play offs after 2008, the reason they sucked was because Warner retired
Colts made the play offs in 2010, they suck this year because Peyton was injured
Steelers are still a dominant team, but having a gimpy Ben killed them this year.
The Bears didn’t have a good QB for a long time, rex was not the answer.
See a recent trend? The reason a lot of these teams suck now was because the team was either old or their QBs got hurt. The Pats aren’t old,so telling the team to bench one of the greatest QB in the game is basically giving up for the next few years.
The point is they didn't win the SB
and whos to say injuries won’t strike the Pats in 2012/2013?
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
Heres what it doesn't say
that for the past 10 years teams that lose the SB haven’t done well afterword, and yet, because we’re the Pats, we’ll magically be different.
Thats homerism.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
Wow i cited the reasons why those teams are bad
And it has a lot to do with injuries to the QB or a franchise QB retiring. We still have Brady, and as long as he is healthy and develop talent around him this team will compete and whether they make it to the SB is crap-shoot since it’s usually the hottest team come play off time that wins. You use of history is completely stupid and has no basis other than generalizing the ther franchises and go no detail into WHY they failed and how it relates to this team.
Ok, QB is the problem for 3 of 8 teams. That leaves 5 teams with a good QB but still failed
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
Lets take a quick look, i only pointed out 3 as an example
2002- St Louis: Warner leaves the team, team gets older but still decent til 2005 when Bulger is injured then Bugler flames out after 2006
2003- oakland: poor drafting…Jamarcus russel anyone?
2004- Carolina: suffered a lot of injuries and inconsistent play made the play offs in 2005 and 2008, Delhomme was a good QB but not great and then he lost it and the team started to tank. Defense loses a lot of their better players to FA and age.
2005- Phillies: They still made the play offs 4 times since then and 1 championship game, all while playing in a highly competitive division.
2006 – Seattle seahawks: 2 play off appearance since then. Hasselback has been very inconsistent and they haven;t found a franchise QB.
And pretty much all of those things could happen to us
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
Except the Pats have Brady
and they already drafted a young team around him and did their rebuilding after 2008 where the veterans all left. Those teams did not both compete and rebuild like the pats have.
Let's take a look
2008……..No Brady, #2 QB……………………….11-5
2009……..Brady getting his legs back………10-6
2010……. Completely healthy Brady………… 14-2
2011……… " " ………….13-3….Back to the super bowl
After losing the super bowl 2007-2008 season
If that isn’t doing well after losing a super bowl, I can give you at least 24 other teams that would take that five rear record.
by FloridaPatsFan on Feb 6, 2012 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe
but the regular season doesn’t matter, unless you go 16-0.
If we went 3-13 but beat the Colts and the Jets, I think I’d be happier then going 13-3 and losing to the Colts, Jets, and losing in the playoffs/SB.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
lol
Im happy for making the playoffs virtually every year.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
Eagles Fan Here
This has got to be the dumbest posts I’ve seen in a while
Just goes to show how spoiled some Pats fans are- you have no idea how good you have it….
Eli’s recievers made amazing catches- yours didn’t, cant win em all….
Andy's always been a big believer in, "I don't care who you have, we're still going to be better than you"
by MeanGreen5 on Feb 6, 2012 12:48 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
this happens every year we don't win a SB
all the trade Brady crowd voice their opinions.
I’m sure their are some Eagles fans that want out of the Vick deal as well.
barring another injury there’s no way Brady sits and Mallet starts, it’s plain foolish to think benching arguably one of the best QB’s to ever play when he has another 2-3yrs of quality football left.
GFY
by TFBismywingman on Feb 6, 2012 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
actually- I've never liked Vick
Since he was a star in ATL, I dont like his style. I like a smart Quarterback- Manning, Rogers, Brady, Brees rather than a flashy one. And the whole strangeling and killing dogs thing sickens me…. but thats another argument. However, I backed McNabb until the bitter end.
I agree TFB, Pats have one of the top quarterbacks of all time- he’s up there with Montana, Johnny U, P. Manning. Pats need to ride this until the wheels fall off.
Andy's always been a big believer in, "I don't care who you have, we're still going to be better than you"
Yup.
Eli’s recievers made amazing catches- yours didn’t, cant win em all….
Couldn’t have said it better, myself. Thanks for the dose of sanity.
When you get done telling us how good we have it
please tell us what that has to do with 10+ years of history?
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
History means shit dude. What happens in past games between a bunch of different team has ZERO correlation with the future.
If your going to base predictions/expectations off something
theres nothing better to do it on then history.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
What you’re doing is like someone looking at the election results of japan, to predict who wins the election in America. Except for the fact that both things relate to elections there is zero relation between the participants and history. If you want to predict the future look at the current roster and developmental history of the PATRIOTS, not the colts/carindals/etc.
No, its more like
if the country has had a Republican president for 80 years, and the Republican parties’ poll numbers are generally high, chances are higher that the next president will be a Republican.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
No, since there actually needs to be a relation of some sort between the team. Except there aren’t since you’re pointing 8 different teams with different histories, drafting histories, personnel, QBs, coaches and ownership. Republicans would mean they share some common grounds or ideal and have some similarities. None of the past teams are similar to the pats.
you've got to be aboutt 11, right?
I mean since birth (11 years ago- Brady’s first Superbowl) you’ve seen your team win or atleast contend for the Superbowl- and unless the Lombardi stays in NE your team “sucks”- have I sumed it up? You are delusional if you think Brady doesnt give you the best chance to win for the next 3 years
Again- Eagles fan here and I hate Brady, can’t believe I’m defending him on the PatsPulpet….
Andy's always been a big believer in, "I don't care who you have, we're still going to be better than you"
I don't think anyone can give us the best chance to win in the next 3 years
so I say we prepare for whats beyond that.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 7:54 PM EST up reply actions
How about this
We’ll trade you our 2nd rd pick we got from Arizona (top 10 in the round) Mike Vick and Assante Samual for Brady.
you can use the 2nd rd pick for defense and your first for the QB of the future, Vick can be your new QB while the rookie learns, Asante goes back home- this year he was “statisticly” the best CB- sures up your secondary, and Brady is out of your confrence and division…. seems like this trade would make us both happy
Andy's always been a big believer in, "I don't care who you have, we're still going to be better than you"
Eagles fan
I agree. This is a BS thread. Pats have had 5 trips to the Super Bowl in 11 years and these people are whining. Pats need defence and maybe a deep threat. I live in Houston and we were happy to make the play-offs. If they had a good defence that wouldn’t make the offence work overtime every game. Not saying anything bad about Wilfork, he is the man. To bad he’s the only great one, guy needs some help.
Steve in Houston
Eagles have NEVER won a Superbowl....
In our storied franchises time, ever. We’ve been there twice. We have also NEVER had an “Elite” QB. We have however had stiffening Defenses under 2 different regimes- Buddy Ryan’s team with R. White, J. Brown, C. Simmons, A. Waters- granted I was 9 years old. And again with H. Douglas, J. Trotter, and Weapon X himself- B. Dawkins. Those were good times.
I digress… definitely agree with you. Eli lit up the sky against the NFL’s worst pass defense- sorry Pats fans but I’m not telling you something you haven’t already heard. Another solid Corner and Safety (solid, I’m not saying all star) would let guys like Mayo, Chung, and Wilfork shine- otherwise they are left on an island forced to defend everything. The game rested squarely on the shoulders of Brady. Get the guy some help, it takes a team . I can’t believe this is even a topic of conversation considering all that Brady has done and how well he still plays. Get him a downfield threat and your ustopable next year…. or better yet don’t, Philly needs to bring home the Lombardi in 2013, Pats fans have had it long enough and some seem to be spoiled
Andy's always been a big believer in, "I don't care who you have, we're still going to be better than you"
Like I said
I’d rather go 3-13 and beat the Jets and Colts (our main rivals)
then go 13-3 and lose to the Jets and Colts. Pats may be spoiled, but we’re spoiled with alot of meaningless wins that, for the last 9 years, have gotten us nothing.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 7:56 PM EST up reply actions
WHat?!
You would rather go 3-13!??!!!?
You are crazy. Unbelievable man. You would rather see this team lose the season but beat only two teams, then win 13 games loosing to those two guys in the regular season resulting in 2 of their 3 losses…… really……
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
Whats the point
1: No 19-0
2: No 16-0
3: No SB
If you can’t get any of those, whats the difference? At least if you go 3-13 you can get used to it, as opposed to losing in the final minute of the SB.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 11:21 PM EST up reply actions
So you want to get used to loosing?
You are confusing me… So you DONT want to go to superbowls and have a chance to go to them virtually every year? Need I remind you that the whole point of football is to get to the superbowl, and the pats have been very good at doing this? The point is not to lose, its to win games, and get a chance to play on the biggest stage of the season.
But you want them to lose……
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
While I wouldn’t want a losing record, I’d sure rather lose in the first round than the Super Bowl. As embarrassing as getting Tebowed, I was still nowhere near as crushed as I was after last year’s Super Bowl. To me, Losing the SB is the worst.
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
He doesn’t even want to make the play offs to have a shot at the SB. which as a fan of a team is utterly dumb. Yes losing the SB sucks, but when the year starts every team and every fan base wants a shot at it. This guy because of this loss suddenly doesn’t want them to have a shot. Nah he rather lose out for whatever reason, rather than give this team a chance. Great fans we have.
I believe what I said
A 13-3 season without a SB has:
1: No 19-0
2: No 16-0
3: No SB
A 3-13 season without a SB has:
1: No 19-0
2: No 16-0
3: No SB
So whats the difference?
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 7, 2012 12:27 AM EST up reply actions
A 13-3 season means a trip to the play offs. Which means a chance to win a SB. a 3-13 season means 0% chance of winning a SB. You can;t automatically assume the team won’t have a chance based on no solid evidence or facts.
I mean in hind-sight
or a hypothetical situation in which we know we won’t win the SB.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 7, 2012 12:59 AM EST up reply actions
"hypothetical situation in which we know we won’t win the SB"
The only situation where a team has 0% chance of winning a SB is if they don;t make the play offs. Once in the play offs nothing is 100% certain. Seahawks beat NO, Broncos beat the steelers..etc the point is once you make the play offs, every team in it has some sort of chance of winning the SB. That’s why it’s dumb to just assume a team has no chance right off the bat.
Exactly. Just because it seems impossible in your mind, doesn’t mean it actually is.
Also, oddly enough, that’s not how I felt about the Denver game. I had a weird feeling about it, actually talked to my friend about it after the SF loss. Then when the matchups were set, i posted to a ravens fan friend that I thought we’d lose that game, and we did.
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
Now as a side note
thats why this loss bugs me more then others. I normally can predict losses/wins like this, to the point where I don’t think I’ve ever been wrong. But I sure was wrong about this one. Its kind of unsettling.
And Lololol hypothetical is like imaginary, and in imaginary anything can happen. If somebody was to put down two papers, one written on it
13-3 season without a SB
and the other
3-13 season without a SB
I think I could choose either one and not care.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 7, 2012 1:16 AM EST up reply actions
Okay you rather root for a losing team than a winning one
Got it. Good luck with that then. SB or bust is failure but 31 other teams failed as well. And i doubt none of those guys or fan-base would rather have a 3-13 season.
“to the point where I don’t think I’ve ever been wrong.”
I highly doubt you except every outcome to go you’re way unless you really do have a crystal ball. You were wrong, get over and like the other 31 fanbases wait for next year and hope for the best.
When I acually tried to predict I was right
which I did for most big games.
I probably wouldn’t want to have a 3-13 season either, because that would mean the team was broken and in severe need of new leadership. But when you ask someone who went 13-3 and didn’t win the SB what they accomplished, the answer is noting. When you ask someone who went 3-13 what they accomplished, you get the same answer.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 7, 2012 1:40 AM EST up reply actions
you are nuts....
you dont know what it’s like rooting for a loseing team in New England- no idea…
Andy's always been a big believer in, "I don't care who you have, we're still going to be better than you"
Well, I can’t say I agree with his idea. What I said was really only in hindsight. Obviously, I’d rather my team make the playoffs where anything can happen, but if given a choice by some genie from the future, and my options were “lose in the wildcard round” or “lose the Super Bowl” I’d definitely pick losing in the wild card. Of course, if the opponent in the wildcard was the Ravens or Jets, my choice would be different.
As far as this
Great fans we have.
Sadly, it comes with the territory of a successful team. Fans, especially younger ones that never experienced the “lean” years of your franchise, become spoiled. We have it the same way.
For me, I started watching the Steelers when I was around 5 (1986). They were not horrible, but never a serious contender. Then Cowher came, and we were a better, but every years end was heartbreaking. Then of course, we went to the SB .(the year before you guys vs GB actually). Then after the way that game went, I was convinced that I would never see a Super Bowl win in my lifetime.
Obviously we did, and I don’t care what anyone says about it, the Seahawks killed themselves more than the refs killed them.
The point of that long winded statement is, I know what it’s like to have a not so good team. So when we won, I enjoyed it like crazy, and did after 08 as well. I don’t take our success for granted. It seems a few on this blog do take their teams success for granted. Reality will slap them in the face pretty hard when Belichick and Brady are gone. (even if they remain competitive, I doubt you’re going to find someone to “replace” Brady, same with Belichick)
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
Honestly, I don't see how I'm spoiled
I want a smooth transition in which Brady avoids a Favre situation, Mallet gets some practice/testing, and the team as a whole can slowly ajust as opposed to having to ajust all the sudden. Now you can argue thats not a good thing or what I’m suggesting wouldn’t do that, but either way its pretty much unrelated to being spoiled.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 7, 2012 1:03 AM EST up reply actions
This assumes
that after we jettison Brady the Pats can somehow simply retool in just 4 years to become a SB contender.
The dark ages will probably be much longer than that, maybe even decades.
I'm more optimistic on that note
our D seems to be coming together. Its young, and we’ll still have BB, who was responsible for much of the Pat’s success in the first place. Mallet is supposed to be first round talent, and we have enough picks that getting a decent QB shouldn’t be an issue. We might not dominant, but I can see us getting a championship or two in the next ten years.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 7, 2012 1:25 AM EST up reply actions
If it was so easy to do, why hasn’t every team simply rebuilt themselves into a contender and won a championship?
Well
the only teams that are never contenders are the ones truly run by idiots, say, the Redskins.
Most teams have been contenders not too long ago, say, Eagles, Cowboys, Vikings, Titans, Bucs, etc.
What puts the Pats over the top is mostly Belichick, and somewhat Brady. Brady, Kraft, even Bledso got the system started, while Belichick is what keeps it rolling.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 7, 2012 1:33 AM EST up reply actions
you do realize
that there were reasons on-field, on his vision, accuracy, and timing, that led Mallett to fall. Now, he fell further than expected, but it was more than simply off-field issues that caused him to slide. Most rumors were that teams had him as a 2nd round talent with a 7th round off-field check (or words to that degree).
Right
Belichick and Brady have been to 5 Superbowls in 11 years, which is just unfair to the rest of the NFL. Yet we EXPECT them to win a Superbowl every year. HOPE is good. EXPECT is just greedy.
It’s going to really suck in 10 years when B&B are retired and the Pats are mediocre again (or worse).
I’d say since their 2001 Superbowl run, which I guess makes me somewhat of a bandwagoner, but you have to start somewhere. I wasn’t really into sports before that age either (teenager).
Half-banwagoner
You banwagon’ed on,but you never bandwagon’ed off. A true bandwagoner was a Packers fan two days ago, and a Giants fan today.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 7, 2012 1:22 AM EST up reply actions
Ask how browns fan feel about losing. Bet they are enjoying it. Or the Rams and redskins. Yea i bet the Rams and browns fans are sooo much happier that their team can’t whiff the play offs
From my experience, Browns fans are used to it and don’t care anymore. Their two Christmases are 1) the day the Steelers season ends and 2) the day the Patriots season ends. (they’re still bitter that you “stole” Belichick
The ones on Dawgs by Nature care a lot more about rooting against certain teams than they do rooting for their own team. Quite sad actually
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
God i hope the team doesn’t suck to the point where fans don’t even give a damn anymore. It’ll be quite sad. Although once Brady leaves i bet most of fans who are calling for his head now will be the first to cry about it.
I doubt the Patriots will be like that ever. If so, maybe for a year. All of the Pats dark times came from before Kraft bought the team. He’s a good owner, and just like the Rooney’s with the Steelers, you may not be a serious threat to win it all every year, but you WILL be competitive.
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
after visiting the Browns SB nation site, I don’t even feel bad for them anymore. Miserable bunch they have.
They ban people for using the subject line. a couple even said they “take pride” in not using it. They are mean, rude, and a bunch of other words I don’t want to type on your blog.
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
We stole Belichick?
they ran him out of town.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 7, 2012 1:04 AM EST up reply actions
I know how it went down. These people aren’t rational at all. They are bitter, angry little gremlins. They hate Lebron for what he did, but never bothered to look inward for the reason he wanted out.
They make death threats to their CB when he has two bad games in a row…it’s a sad, sad place.
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
those wins get us in the playoffs.
I guarantee you that any other team in the AFc would rather be in the pats position. YOU are the one who is spoiled here.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
what?
this is ludicrous.
Seriously, you’d rather go 3-13 and beat the Jets and Colts than 13-3? You realize, a couple 3-13 seasons and that means a rebuild job, and a lot of teams get stuck in perpetual rebuild.
The Pats have stayed on top … AND managed to reload and have a young team. Sure, they haven’t won a title since 04, but they are (as close as possible) eating their cake and having it too. They don’t let the cap situation get bad, they stock up picks for the future, and they have built a new core. This team was arguably 1 year early – this really wasn’t the Pats year with the defense still developing and losing the off-season. If anything, the next 2 years should be primed for the Pats if they can add a deep threat, as the young defensive players are coming into their own, while some core veterans are still in place.
That's just whacked
No easier way to say it. That’s like the Browns in 2009. Their Super Bowl win, complete with Gatorade bath, was beating the Patriots. Then what? They looked like idiots.
Keep the faith!
And if it wasn't clear
this has nothing to do with the SB
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 9, 2012 8:42 PM EST up reply actions
Blasphemous talk
2/3s of the league would kill to take Brady right now for whatever years he still has left..i’d still take him over any QB period.
"These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters." -Bill Belichick
I'd reckon the number is more something like
7/8 of the league that would take Brady. The only teams I can see not wanting him are the Giants, Packers, Saints and Steelers. That’s 1/8 of the league. The rest would take him in a heartbeat, I imagine.
Colts?
I mean, I know their QB situation is a bit muddled right now, but I’m assuming Peyton will come back.
I dunno what to think about that
can’t imagine he comes back, and yet can’t imagine he leaves.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 7, 2012 1:20 AM EST up reply actions
If I'm the new Colts GM, and I have to choose between Brady or Manning
I’m taking Brady. Younger, healthier, not yet on the downside of his career.
Facepalm
The Post W'Rec'ker
by Choose your screen name: on Feb 6, 2012 1:54 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
If you think there we'll have an easier chance then the one we just blew
Facepalm right back at ya.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
well of course
if you are comparing the Pats chances at reaching the Super Bowl and winning versus a blank slate to start 2012.
What you really should be using in the comparison is your expectations entering 2011. I’d fathom a guess that not every Pats fan thought this was a Super Bowl bound team in the pre-season, let alone during the season when the defense was being gashed badly.
The NFL playoffs these days are more about who is hot at the right time, and the match-ups you face.
To be honest
In 2011 I felt like we were at least improving. Things were getting better, we were still rebuilding but almost done. 2009 was almost forgotten.
Now it feels like 2009 is ahead of us, as opposed to behind us.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
take a moment and read my posts in the other two threads
it’s hard to suggest that this Pats team is in a BAD position for the future when you consider the entire situation.
Hello! You play to WIN the game! You don't play to just play!
Starting Brady is the surest way to WIN games
The Post W'Rec'ker
by Choose your screen name: on Feb 6, 2012 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
Thats what the Vikings did when they brought Favre back
and look how that turned out… the “win now, forget about the future” attitude is never helpful.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
Favre wasn't in his PRIME anymore
The Post W'Rec'ker
by Choose your screen name: on Feb 6, 2012 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
and it's hard to blame them for bringing back Favre for one more year
considering how Favre did that first year. It was worth the gamble. The problem wasn’t just the final Favre year – the problem was that they had aging parts to the team that they didn’t replace quick enough, so they went on a bad down spin this year.
^THIS
There was no other option for the Vikings.
Seriously would you rather have Tavaris jackson or Brett Favre leading your team.
Granted most people were jaded by what favre had done in the past, and failed to realize he was in sharp decline along with the remainder of the team.
the Pats have good young talent, they will let a few older guys go, pick up some FA’s and draft some prospects Belichick will continue to assemble 10+ win teams and they will always be in contention with TFB at QB.
GFY
by TFBismywingman on Feb 6, 2012 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
but is that all there is? 10+ wins, 1 and dones and maybe the occasional SB loss…. as Brady said, there has to be more then that…
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
I agree there has to be more
Look we can’t win every game( I know 2007 almost)
All you can do in the NFL is attempt to keep your team in position to win its division and atleast have a shot at the playoffs.
I would seriously doubt starting Mallet gives them the best shot at a division title.
I get your reasoning to play Mallet, but how many times did that scenario present itself this past year, every game counted to get the #1 seed. Sure if we are the same position as GB by wk 14-15 then you put him in. Or if Grabage time comes on in a early season game. Then you get into that shaking the rust off in playoffs issue
GFY
by TFBismywingman on Feb 6, 2012 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
Alot of it depends on how Mallet plays
don’t forget he was supposed to be a 1st round pick, without the character concerns. A first round pick is supposed to be a franchise QB. Expecting a franchise QB to get us 10+ wins when hes had a year to sit and learn, a decent O-line, and great receivers seems reasonable to me.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
Look the decision of Mallet>Brady
is for another season, like 3 seasons from now.
If brady comes out year and starts stinking up the joint I’m BB will bench him. The odds of this happening are extremely low but there is a chance and history does show QB’s begin to decline post 30-35yo but just because thats happened in the past doesn’t mean its the rule. The other QB’s weren’t TFB and they weren’t him.
GFY
by TFBismywingman on Feb 6, 2012 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
The devil you know
is normally better than the devil you don’t know.
by FloridaPatsFan on Feb 6, 2012 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
Which is why I'd like to get to know Mallet when we can still back out
as opposed to waiting until hes our only decent starter.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
You don't bench
a successful QB that just threw for over 5,200 yards to see how your third string QB will do as an experiment. You forget one important thing, BB sees all three QB’s everyday during the season. Don’t you think that if BB thought for one instant that Mallett was a better option than Brady, he would not have put him in already? I would think BB is a better judge of what QB is better suited to provide wins for the team he coaches than a fan that only appears to judge a successful season by a super bowl win
by FloridaPatsFan on Feb 6, 2012 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
Poor Gabbert
The Jags didn’t handle the QB situation well at all, releasing Garrard only a couple of days before the season opener. Luke McCown lasted a game and a half before Gabbert was thrown into the fire – with just about every receiver they had out with injuries too.
Keep the faith!
Yeah, he got stuck in an awful situation with a horrible team, but it goes to show that even first round QBs are a huge gamble. Ryan Leaf, anyone? You could end up with Peyton Manning or you could be stuck with Sanchize/Matt Leinart. Really, a good quarterback (not even Tom Brady good, just good) is exceedingly difficult to come by.
you do realize how difficult
that is to do, right? It’s fairly remarkable, in the era of FA, this run the Pats have been on since that first SB. Even the years they failed to make the playoffs, off the top, they only missed by 1 game each time, and still had winning records.
Again, the NFL these days, playoff wise, is as much about who is hot and the match-ups you get than it is about the best teams in each conference.
Which is a problem with the NFL itself, and the system of playoffs and an SB.
But I dunno – I think I’d rather have one great, 19-0, blow everybody out 50-10 year then 10 years where we make the playoffs but don’t win the SB.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
He was coming off the best year of his career
sound familiar?
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
The vikings team as a whole was built to win at that moment
They needed one more piece. And his name wasn’t Tavaris Jackson.
The Post W'Rec'ker
by Choose your screen name: on Feb 6, 2012 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
Who else would they have grabbed?
The Post W'Rec'ker
by Choose your screen name: on Feb 6, 2012 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
Because all QBs retire at the same time.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
Who hasn't?
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
Roethlisberger
is too early to tell. He may never again win an SB.
Favre never won an SB after losing an SB.
Peyton never won an SB after losing an SB.
Whats your point?
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
Wow you are dense...
Whats your point? These guys played well after losing a SB and got to the play off consistently. The fact those guys never made a superbowl doesn’t mean Brady won’t again since they are different players on different team.
So it only proves my point
that once you lose a SB, you don’t do well after that, especially when its late in your career.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
No it doesn't
Seriously dude, you can;t predict the fucking future so stop trying. Okay how bout you hop of the wagon and go root for another team since we’re doomed with Brady as QB. Fuck off if your going to be this stupid about it. I’m done trying to be rational with you when your being completely irrational and hard headed.
Ok then
if we win the 2012/2013 Superbowl with Brady I will personally buy you a Brady home, away, and throwback jersey and mail them all to you for free. Screenshot this comment if you like. Its your opinion against mine, and we’ll see who is right.
If you don’t wanna keep discussing, you can always leave my thread, as opposed to telling me to stop being a fan.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
What exactly am I ahead at?
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
This team is obviously done for the future. Might as well concede the next few years. Why bother play right?
This team is obviously done for the future
so change the team
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
Our strenghts are going to be leaving anyways
I don’t like the idea of throwing Mallet into the starting position without know what he is going to be like, and with no way to back out.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
And for all we know
Superbowl winning QBs like Brees, Rodgers, even Manning will never make it to another Superbowl. This coaching and qb combo has made 5, so out of all these people I’d be more willing to bet on them.
Whether Big Ben wins another one or not isnt the point
We have hope with him as our QB
With Tom Brady at QB next season you still have hope. If you cant, I dont know what to say to you
Formerly known as Steeler_
BTSC's token Kiwi fan. That means I'm a New Zealander. Yes, that small country next to Australia....no we are not part of Australia
by Michael Hewitt on Feb 11, 2012 9:01 AM EST up reply actions
the Pats haven't forgotten about the future, though
there are few teams as well positioned for the future as the Pats. I’m not going to repeat my post a 3rd time, as that’s just chewing up space, but really, the Pats are well positioned for the future.
Doesn’t mean they will make the right picks or get the right guys, but they clearly keep the future in mind.
They were improving. Are improving. Will be improved next year.
It’s hard for a team to stay consistently competitive in the NFL. Harder than you are giving them credit for. Who was going to stop the Packers? What happened to the Saints? Patriots were a bad bounce away from having a shot at winning Sunday. That Hakeem Nicks fumble could just as easily have bounced towards the Patriots rather than away from them. That’s how close the game was. Why take that close loss and decide to bench the team’s best weapon?
Regular season wins aren’t meaningless. They’re what get a team a chance to win the Super Bowl. The Eagles couldn’t get it together in time. The Giants barely made it in by the skin of their teeth (and the ineptness of the Cowboys). The Texans’ chances, that looked so good as the season progressed, went down with Matt Schaub’s injury. Tom Brady gets the Patriots in playoff contention every year. Period.
Keep the faith!
Exactly
We’d all be singing a different tune if that punt didn’t graze the 49er players’ leg due to an extremely unlucky bounce on his end, because I don’t think the Giants would have won that game otherwise and we’d have faced the 49ers in the Superbowl, and no one knows how that would’ve went (although I personally think they would’ve been held to few enough points for the Pats to win).
Luck’s a huge part of every victory, but the only people to bring it up are those in defeat. That’s just the way this gigantic NFL cookie crumbles.
by indy pats fan on Feb 9, 2012 10:01 AM EST up reply actions
I agree
I didn’t think the Patriots were going to the Super Bowl. I was very worried about the defense.
I was afraid that Buffalo Bills might end up being Division Champions because of how they beat the Patriots in their first meeting. Fortunately, they ended up playing worse throughout the season.
I just wish that Patriots organization draft a speedy, tall wide receiver that will be a great number 1 receiver. Deion Branch isn’t number 1 wide receiver. He never really was. Look how he did with Seattle Seahawks. Tom Brady loves him, but he has to consider that Branch is not the same.
Lets get Brady some serious weapons to throw to.
I also think that a healthy Gronk would have made a great difference.
That was biggest concern in the Super Bowl.
It was obvious that he was just 50 percent.
I think that they were better off not playing.
They need to release Ochocinco. He hardly did anything.
I like Woodhead. Keep him.
I like Wes Welker. He is one of the reasons that the Patriots keep going into the playoffs. He leads the league in receptions more than once. The guy is a great slot receiver, but he is not a number 1 receiver, and Branch definitely isn’t.
by raymond.n.scott on Feb 6, 2012 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
Very well then
You don’t give up one of the greatest quarterbacks ever IN HIS Prime to sit behind Ryan Mallet
The Post W'Rec'ker
by Choose your screen name: on Feb 6, 2012 2:04 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I can’t believe somebody said that the Patriots should stop
Tom Brady is one of the reasons the Patriots consistently make the playoffs!
The Patriots lack a deep threat. That’s the big problem.
I’d like to see a wide receiver at least 6’2…..6’4 would even be better.
Somebody with great speed would greatly help. Great speed, great hands, great at running routes, and can take great hits are things that I want to see in a number 1 wide receiver.
Their defense wasn’t bad, but I think they should get another cornerback,and somebody on the taller side…like 6’1 or 6’2 to deal with taller wide receivers.
2 thoughts
There’s a part of me that thinks that, at times, Belichick gets too enamored with specimens (particularly on offense). Chad Jackson and Ben Watson come to mind. I tend to think a deep threat, a big guy that can get down-field is all that is needed. Speed would be nice, but consistency is as important. Thus, I wonder about a guy like Michael Floyd (ND WR in case I have the name wrong right now).
As for DB, I think that’s a clear need for you guys (although if McCourty moves full-time to FS, that would address one need). I really like Dowling, but he can’t stay healthy (2 years running) so minimal expectations should be had on his impact. What they need to decide is to what extent they value island ability vs. instincts. Two guys that might have a good blend of island/man ability and good instincts are Dre Kirkpatrick and Chase Minnifield, the latter a guy that might be there in the 2nd.
As important as getting another DB is improving the pass rush.
hit enter by accident
meant to say, as important as getting another DB is finding a younger pass rusher to develop.
Yeah…Belichik is not really a heartless type of guy. He can be attached to players like they are family like with Deion Branch because of how he helped him win 2 Super Bowls. Well…Tom is the same with Deion. Didn’t Tom ask to get Deion back? Belichick to get Tom some real deep threat wide receivers to throw too.
I agree ….get a defensive end.
by raymond.n.scott on Feb 6, 2012 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
I agree to some extent about the deep threat and the defense,
but this was a very winnable game. Not like against the Jets last year.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
K then
name me one negative of my suggestion? One thing that would be worse doing what I suggest then it is now?
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
Probably the most flawed logic I've ever witnessed.
Enjoy the time you have with one of the greatest QBs of all time.
You might never get another!
I know… I’m a dolphins fan
The Post W'Rec'ker
by Choose your screen name: on Feb 6, 2012 2:10 PM EST reply actions
it's been awhile for your organization
and a LOT of lost 2nd round picks … 3? or 4? (2nd rounders given up in moves for QB’s)
Hopefully this year haha. But its hard to find one that's truly special
The Post W'Rec'ker
by Choose your screen name: on Feb 6, 2012 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
i tend to think Peyton will end up with you guys
It seems like the most ideal situation – an organization that wants to go all-out, an organization that wants an aggressive offense, a coach who seems liable to give Peyton the reins, a coach who isn’t likely to rub people the wrong way (a part of me likes what Rex Ryan does, but someone pointed out on the radio the other day that Peyton probably wouldn’t like that). Add in that, if Peyton is willing to take an incentive laden deal (as the rumors suggest), and the fit seems best there, and it allows him to stay in the AFC.
I'd love to see that. I think it's possible.
Peyton vs. Tom two times a year competing for the same division sounds like fun to me
The Post W'Rec'ker
by Choose your screen name: on Feb 6, 2012 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
a part of me wonders if Peyton
would really want to be in the same division as the Pats … but I can’t find many better fits. Don’t see the Ravens dumping Flacco for Peyton (despite some radio folks in B-more supporting the idea). Don’t see him going to be a bad spot like the Browns, and I wonder how enthused he’d be about say, the Jaguars. As a darkhorse, I half wonder about the Chiefs, but I don’t know if the Chiefs have the room to dump Cassel and take on Peyton (doubt it, too lazy to google right now).
Then, there’s the NFC, and my first thought is I doubt he’d want to have to face his brother to get to the Super Bowl (assuming his team got that far). Can’t see the Redskins, and despite some Eagles radio hosts pushing a Peyton idea, don’t see that happening. The NFC South has young QB’s. Seattle/San Fran/Arizona/Minnesota seem like darkhorse possibilities, but Schefter seems certain San Fran isn’t looking that way.
Between the Seahawks/Cardinals/Vikings/Dolphins, the Fins seem like the best fit.
The chiefs actually will have the most cap space to fill this offseason
I’ve heard Wash. thrown around as well, but I doubt he’d want to have to play little bro twice year either
GFY
by TFBismywingman on Feb 6, 2012 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
That's the big rumor in DC
that Washington is talking up Flynn and RG3 and lying in the weeds for Peyton. But color me not convinced that Peyton would
a) Want to go to Washington (it’s really not a horrid situation, as defensively, they look good (although they need DB help), and offensively, they have some young receivers in place and some young OL guys)). But … it’s not a great situation and it’s a tough division
plus
b) want to go to the same division as his little brother.
Oh we are
after all, this idea is designed to get the most from him.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
... and you get more from your All Pro QB Tom Brady being on the bench than on the field?
The Post W'Rec'ker
by Choose your screen name: on Feb 6, 2012 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
in stuations where he doesn't need to be on the field?
yea, I think so.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!
Stop it, you’re killing me!!!!!!!!
This is post is massively flawed.
Brady is a top 3 QB in the NFL for a reason. You don’t sit him. Like you said, he had a good game. However, we went up against a tough team, and in the end we just couldn’t get it done. It’s football. It has happened to 3 of our losses in the regular season. Sometimes the ball just doesn’t bounce your way.
Brady give us the best chance of winning football games. I suggest you get sober, and think this over a bit more.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
by Jack'sAxe on Feb 6, 2012 2:20 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Look... Rebuilding is a myth invented by mediocre teams to explain their ineptness.
You have a great QB.
You have a great offense.
You have many impact players.
You were a few plays from a Superbowl.
A few plays!
Don’t blow it all up just to wallow in ineptitude that you have statistically calculated.
The Post W'Rec'ker
by Choose your screen name: on Feb 6, 2012 2:23 PM EST reply actions
most SBs come down to a few plays
and look at McCourty – last year at this time most people would have said he was a great, if not elite, CB. Now hes solidly average. Just because someone/some part of the team is great one day doesn’t mean it will be great the next.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
THats why you draft and pick up FA and develop players. You make it seem the Team has hit it’s peak now…jesus
IMO
it has.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
considering the excellent position the organization is in
as it relates to the future, it’s hard for me to see this as being the Pats peak in the next 2-3 years in terms of overall roster ability. Maybe they don’t reach another SB. It’s entirely possible, but from a talent perspective, this team should have a shot to get better with their cap room and draft picks AND with their current young players developing.
You seem to keep over-looking the superbly positive situation the organization is in from a picks/cap room/youth perspective. Really, there’s only one “old” guy on the team of note, and that’s Brady, who is still a top 3 QB in the game. Wilfork may be at the tail end of his prime years, but he’s still there, and Mankins is in his prime. Welker is in his prime.
Who else is there on the roster that is “old” and a key player? There really isn’t anyone. Maybe Branch was a key guy this past year (but tailed off), but he’s hardly irreplaceable.
Once again I go back to McCourty
He was an above average to elite CB, until he started to really suck. Then he got moved to safety and now hes decent. You’re basing your expectations off how we are now, which is not at all unreasonable. If, however, momentum goes against us, no matter how talented we are we’re going to fail.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
He started to stink
when Chung was injured and he had no safety help at all.
He did pretty good this game.
Besides, a lot of rookies has sophmore slumps. I suggest you don’t make a solid opinion until after another year or two.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
of course
but that goes for EVERYONE. If Aaron Rodgers gets hurt and his career is over, the Packers likely struggle for a year or two. If Eli is gone, the Giants probably don’t make the playoffs. The one thing to be said about the PAts is that, in the BB era since the SB, he has not let the team be put in a bad long-run position due to liking certain guys. He’ll move on from guys in the best interest of the team.
as for McCourty, they drafted him to be used heavily in zone schemes and concepts. Once they started asking their CB’s to play man a bit more, his flaws were exposed. His flaws were always there, but the Pats covered it up. Even late in the year, when he occasionally played CB, he was fine when asked to play in zone schemes. The flaws were there in college, but BB likes to draft DB’s, for the most part, that show good instinct/recognition abilities.
McCourty has played for TWO seasons. One of them was great, one of them was bad. WAYYYYY too small a sample size to make any judgements.
This
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
we'll see how he is next season.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
You're either seriously hung over or seriously asinine.
Don’t be hypocritical.
Jerod Mayo looked foolish on Cruz’s touchdown. He obviously doesn’t give us the best opportunity to win a Super Bowl right? So cut him ASAP and let’s start Gary Guyton in place of him!
Wes Welker dropped a catch he has made 99 times out of 100, in the Super Bowl. Screw the 1,500 yards he caught in the regular season. He no longer gives the Patriots their best shot at winning the SB right? So cut him immediately and re-sign Tiquan Underwood in his place!
The defense had a 12th man penalty. Our defense no longer is our best shot at winning the Super Bowl right? So let’s cut all of those tools and sign a college defense!
Super Bowl 47 is ours!
Cyril P
liryc715@yahoo.com
I'm not saying Brady cost us the SB...
I’m saying just the opposite. As Gisele said, a QB can be god and it doesn’t matter if his receivers don’t do their job. For whatever reason, teams tend to collapse after a SB loss. So instead of continuing to fight and end up falling into the collapse anyways, we should use the collapse to our advantage.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
x
I got a GIF for that!
Giants by 17 over GB, take it to the bank!
Giants by 10 over SF, take it to the bank! Well, OK, by 3, but we are Super Bowl bound!!!!!!!
Giants will score 30 or more points, NE 20 or less. Guess who wins? Take it to the bank!
Then why'ed it get 3 recs...?
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 8, 2012 6:11 PM EST up reply actions
They were all from Giants fans (really, I get to see them)
I guess they like the idea of sitting Brady.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Feb 8, 2012 6:53 PM EST up reply actions
Here's the deal.
Every year Belichick brings the best players he can find and fit it the salary cap to training camp. The best man wins. It doesn’t matter if it’s a high priced FA, a future HOF QB, a first round draft pick, or an UFA. The best guy gets the roster spot. The best guy gets the start. The best guy gets the majority of snaps. He’s the best guy. That’s it.
If that’s Brady, then it’s Brady. It’s Mallet, then it’s Mallet. Belichick isn’t going to change, and he doesn’t need to. It’s a sound philosophy.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Feb 6, 2012 4:25 PM EST reply actions
Wow
So, if Brady isn’t likely to win any more SBs in his career, why keep starting him?
And to think I thought you were a reasonable guy. Im so lost for words right now.
Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit.
Edward Abbey
The rest of the NFL teams and their fans agree with you. They would be very happy if the Patriots stopped starting Brady.
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
So true frank
Any chance you could stir a similar discussion about benching Rothelisberger?
GFY
by TFBismywingman on Feb 6, 2012 7:34 PM EST up reply actions
Lol. Probably not, but there are some crazy things at our site sometimes. Like trade Wallace for a LT (as if that would happen) or trade Mendenhall for a second round pick because he tore his ACL. (again, as if that would happen, since currently even Adrian Peterson would only be worth a 2 or 3, and Mendenhall is no Peterson)
Also, people still think we would have had a first round bye if we had just played Dixon when Ben got the ankle injury. People are obsessed with that idea for some reason, despite the fact that he only earned a jersey because Leftwich went on IR.
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
I honestly don't see what we have to lose by doing what I suggested
its as though people can’t take anything they see as criticism of Brady, which is all the more ironic because this thread is not in any way critical of Brady.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 7:59 PM EST reply actions
Its Ok to be critical of TFB
but to suggest benching him for the purpose of trying out Mallet is absurd.
Thats what training camp and the preseason is for. If mallet is the best QB then he will start, until then the job is Brady’s alone.
GFY
by TFBismywingman on Feb 6, 2012 8:03 PM EST up reply actions
Preseason is.. 1 game?
And training camp is nothing like a real game.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 8:05 PM EST up reply actions
Preseason is 4 games....
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Feb 6, 2012 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
one game of playing against starters with your starters
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 8:33 PM EST up reply actions
Thats silly.
The pats don’t follow that philosophy. And teams normally dont follow it either. the 3rd preseason game means just as much as the others.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
well, if you’re not starting him, you are paying a guy 20 million dollars for next season to sit on the bench, how much sense does that make? Other reasons, he’s a hall of fame QB coming off a 5000 yard season in which his TD/INT ratio was still great, and he showed no signs of slowing down. Your other QB’s are unproven is another pretty good reason. I could go on if you’d like.
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
Thats the idea - Mallet is unproven
so lets give him a chance. Brady, Mallet, and God give us equal chance to win the SB in my eyes – no matter how good our QB is, I don’t think we’ll win, especially next year. It is natural to lose momentum and take a few steps back after a SB loss, so if your not going to win the SB anyway, why not experiment?
And, more correctly, we’d be paying a guy 20m to be a backup, offensive coordinator, QB coach, and possibly starter all at once. If it doesn’t work out, we can just go back to starting Brady, and nothing of value was lost.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 8:09 PM EST up reply actions
If Mallet beats Brady in camp, and looks good in pre-season, he will start.
Ain’t happening.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Feb 6, 2012 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
No value lost? We lose games and have less of the chance to make the play offs, while pissing off Brady who doesn’t like to sit to start with.
Your assuming Mallet will be losing games Brady would be winning, and that those games would be important
come playoff time.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 9:02 PM EST up reply actions
In a division where the number 1 seed and the number 3 seed
can some down to a few games difference it important to give yourself the best chance to win. A lot of this is assuming you can somehow tell which games Brady is going to lose, which he isn’t and appropriately start Mallet then. Or that the pats can throw away games and not affect them or that sitting Brady is somehow not going to anger the base who cares about winning and anger Brady himself. The only time i advocate starting Mallet is if there is no chance of the pats making the play offs, which is unlikely with Brady or they have such a huge lead for the best seed they can get that they can afford to give Mallet some reps like the colts did in 2009.
Well just without thinking much this is how I'd do it
Against good teams where veteran leadership is important, Brady starts.
Against teams that may not be good but have good pass-rushes, or good teams that aren’t from our division/conference, Mallet starts. This gives him experience in pressure situations, while also hopefully keeping the # of times Brady gets sacked down. In two-minute situations Brady comes in, in situations where we’re massively ahead or massively down Mallet comes in.
And seriously – aside from 2009, the top-seeded teams haven’t been the ones that won it all. If anything, it seems the #1 seed is a burden as opposed to a blessing.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 9:17 PM EST up reply actions
I think you may just be over reacting after a tough loss. This is normal, you should have seen our site after we got Tebowed People want all the defensive players cut, our DC who is widely considered the best in the game to be fired, our RB to be traded, and our HC either fired or “reined in”
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
Yea but making the play offs is required to win it all. Like i said, I’m not opposed to starting Mallet is the pats have it locked up and are already a top seed or can’t get any higher. But in the middle of the season you don;t know how things will play out and doing such a move is way to risky and uncalulateable
But thats where we differ
I don’t think we can win it all. I’m not saying we should intentionally tank the season, but trying specifically to be less dependent on Brady and starting to think about a post-Brady world as opposed to thinking we’re at the heights of Brady’s carrier would be good.
Yesterday was a turning point for the Pats. We went from being a franchise on the verge of greatness to a franchise in transition/rebuilding.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 11:32 PM EST up reply actions
but trying specifically to be less dependent on Brady and starting to think about a post-Brady world as opposed to thinking we’re at the heights of Brady’s carrier would be good.
Why would you want to do that now? Brady can still play very well, and he can still take us to the playoffs. Lets replace him AFTER he starts playing bad, or gets too old.
Yesterday was a turning point for the Pats. We went from being a franchise on the verge of greatness to a franchise in transition/rebuilding.
how are they rebuilding? They get to the playoffs every year. Rebuilding is when your team isn’t doing very well, and trying to become elite. the pats have been, and still are, elite. So this makes no sense, and neither is this post you made.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
I'm going by the fact that for as long as I can remember
teams that lose the SB don’t do well the following year, and many descend into extended periods of fail. Making it to the SB is hard. Repeating after you win is damn near impossible, and, if the last 10 years are any indication, repeats after you lose are hardest of all.
Are we really that good that we can overcome all that?
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 7, 2012 12:22 AM EST up reply actions
How was yesterday a turning point?
Would say this if we had won? You do realize win or lose, next year they’ll pretty much have the same team regardless of outcome. So would you be writing about the them of the franchise had they won the game? This game did not kill the franchise. It’s not if the loss was so bad that all our players decided to never play again. Plus you said so yourself as long as a team makes the playoffs they have a shot at the SB. So why can’t Brady get to another? It makes no sense that for 31 other teams they have a shot, but when the pats lose the SB it means they are done…
If we had won
I’d say yesterday was the day we took back our crown. Yesterday was they day we either revived the dynasty, or began a new one. Yesterday was the day when all debates about greatest QB, coach, etc were finally and conclusively put to rest. Yesterday was the day we got revenge, the day we finally got closure for 18-1.
So yea, I’d have call it a turning-point, only turning in a good way as opposed to a bad way.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 7, 2012 12:24 AM EST up reply actions
Except nothing changes in terms of roster. So had they won yesterday and went into next season with the same roster, you’d think they can repeat. But since they lost and going into next season with the same roster they can’t repeat. This is why i think your narrative is stupid since one loss somehow is going make the team play worse than they would had they won…Basically it’s a you problem, nothing with the pats. It’s a change in how YOU view the team, the team itself did not change much other than being more hungry for another shot next year.
Theres a little something called
momentum. A team can have it one minute, and then those exact same 53 players can not have it the next. It tends to decide games, and seasons, and at times the fate of entire franchises. If you want to deny its existence go ahead, we’ll see whos right. I’ve got history on my side, but then again, what does history matter?
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 7, 2012 1:08 AM EST up reply actions
Momentum in a game exists. But you’re talking about a 7 month period of roster changes, drafting and player development. You’re idea of momentum is completely flawed. If your momentum really exists then the SB winner after every year should be the one winning it the next because they have “momentum” yet the last team to repeat were the patriots. There is no higher force that is preventing the Pats from winning it next year.
Close, but no
Biggest momentum: Teams that made the playoffs
Good to go for the future, but won’t win the following year: Team that won the SB
Rebuilding: Teams that didn’t make the playoffs
On the decline, in trouble: Team that lost the SB
Just basing off observations.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 7, 2012 1:28 AM EST up reply actions
Your observations have no basis since it’s nothing but generalizing. Like I’ve said 100 times, you need to look at each team case by case. I don’t know how old you are or what your profession is, but i’ll tell you this when you analyze any situation or events in class just pointing to a events without any causation or correlation and generalizing things is a guaranteed failure. This idea that superbowl losing teams are going to decline has as much of a fact as getting bad luck from walking under a latter. And as you said before if the pats won you’d think they’ll be good for the future, which honestly means all of this is in your head and your own superstitions.
What ever you say
For whatever reason, its pretty much always right.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 7, 2012 2:06 AM EST up reply actions
It matter logic here no doesn't
I really can’t believe this.
You are suggesting that since you can’t win the Superbowl with Brady, one of the all time greats, that he should waste the rest of his career on the bench.
And the team should suffers years and years of mediocrity instead of being a contender year after year?
The Post W'Rec'ker
by Choose your screen name: on Feb 7, 2012 12:44 AM EST reply actions
Dude i've been trying to rationalize with this guy all day
I think he believes that losing the SB means some kind of magical force will cause the team to suck for years to come and if we won it (even with the same players we lost with) that magical force would not haunt us. Basically that’s what i got from his argument.
I know. I was trying to also at like 2pm but I came back and he's still at it!
I’ve been busy studying for a neurology exam since then, and I’m pretty sure there is a defect in his frontal lobe.
The Post W'Rec'ker
by Choose your screen name: on Feb 7, 2012 12:49 AM EST up reply actions
That's the only explanation that makes any sense at all!
The Post W'Rec'ker
by Choose your screen name: on Feb 7, 2012 12:50 AM EST up reply actions
I see from his profile, he is one of those young fans I was talking about in my post up there. He’s been a fan since 2003, he’s never even experienced failure with his team yet. After discovering that, I am done commenting on this story toward him
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
LMFAO?
18-1, 4th and 2, and now this.
No, sir, I’ve experienced two SB losses, two one and dones, one AFCCG choke, and one missed playoff. What I’ve never experienced is an SB win as a true fan. I respect you and all but that post is sort of the exact opposite of how things area.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 7, 2012 1:11 AM EST up reply actions
You havent experienced a loosing season..
By all accounts, the pats are more successful than any other team in the AFC last year.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
Not the same thing. yes those things suck, but you’ve never had to see your team struggle to win 5 games. Or like in 90 when they won 1 game. The things you mention, I’d call “coming up short” But those years when the Pats won 1 or 2 or 6 games, that’s complete failure.
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
Maybe
but I’m serious when I point out I’ve never experienced an SB win. That means every Giant, Packer, Colt, Steeler, and Saint fan is more spoiled then me for sure.
And in a way, coming close is more painful then not coming close. You yourself said you’d rather lose to Tebow then lose in the SB. I’d rather lose 40-20 then have an end-of-game emotional rollar-coaster that ends in a loss.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 7, 2012 1:19 AM EST up reply actions
Wait, I’m a little confused. In your profile it says you’ve been a fan since 2003, so that would mean you saw them win in Feb of 04, and again in Feb of 05. What am I missing here? I’m just going off the information you provided.
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
Ok, hopefully a more in-depth explaination will help you out
I believe it was 2003. I know I watched both the Panthers and the Eagles Superbowls as a Pats “fan”, and don’t think I watched the Rams one. Now by fan, this wasn’t memorize the numbers/go to games fan, but more like “oh, Patriots, their uniforms are prettier, so I’m going to cheer fro them” fan. I didn’t get a big boost from a win, and don’t think I’d have been too upset with a loss.
I felt similar about the Ravens and Bucs, who also won at the time. I guess you could call me a bit of a band-wagoner, but hey, those were like the only teams I’d ever heard of.
We all know what it was like back then, with 9/11, the war in Afganistan and soon-to-be-war in Iraq. I was encouraged to be, and was very pro-American – I remember riding in 4th of July parade floats and singing the star spangled banner for my school. So, then, what better team to cheer for then the Patriots?
To be honest I’m not sure what happened in 2005 – I don’t remember knowing or ever caring about the Steelers. Maybe I just didn’t watch that SB. In 2006, still considering myself to be a Pats fan more then anything, I remember watching the AFCCG loss to the Colts, which doesn’t really matter for this explanation.
Then came 2007, and the perfect season. This drew me in like nothing else had – everybody was talking about it, Belichick was on all the magazine covers and Brady the display TVs at Wal-Mart. I even remember my teacher cut his hair to have a haircut matching Brady, which is saying something since he was normally an Eagles fan. And all this was going on for my team.
Now we lost that Superbowl as you all know. Though I sort of realized why I tried to avoid caring about things I couldn’t control, but once I was in there was really no stepping out. Gradually I’d follow them more closely, getting to know different players, watching games that weren’t the, SB, and eventually registering here. Though a combination of chance and choosing I had become a Pats fan, and probably will be for the rest of my life.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 7, 2012 2:05 AM EST up reply actions
Hey, I’m not questioning your fandom. The only time I care about bandwagon people is when it comes to Steeler fans, and I know they weren’t fans before we won in 08. All I’m saying is that you’ve never experienced true failure with your team. You weren’t around when your team was a laughing stock of the league. So, to me, that’s obvious when you make a post like this. It’s all good, as I’ve said, you just experienced a brutal loss. These things happen. But thinking that anyone not named Tom Brady playing QB for you the next few years is a good idea, to me, is crazy.
to the top part of your comment, when I said Feb of 04, and 05, I was referring to the 03, and 04 seasons in which your team won it all. yes, the Steelers won in 05 (in Feb of 06)
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
A lot of fans never experienced a superbowl win.
I technically didn’t start watching football till the end of 06. You’re being very illogical at this point. You are getting disappointed, which is fine. But be happy that we even get to have a chance to go to the superbowl. Most teams would rather be in our situation, because we have had so much success.
So relax. Each season is a new season, and a new chance to win it all again. When that time comes, I hope its soon. But keep in mind that half the league would like to be in our position. perhaps 3/4 of it.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
Well I just don't see that being in the next two years,
and I see a slow transition between Brady and Brady’s replacement starting next season as being the best thing for the team. No matter how good you are you should be trying to get better – not because your spoiled or greedy, but because if you don’t try to improve, you won’’t improve.
Anyways, I’m off, cya tomorrow.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 7, 2012 3:17 AM EST up reply actions
You won't become better by doing that though.
Brady still has a good 2-3 years left. You transition into the other guy when your MVP Starter has nothing else to give on the field.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
Which goes back to my point about history
I’m not denying Brady is still good. I’m saying, no matter how good Brady is, I don’t think we can win any more SBs during his career. I’m also not saying Mallet gives us a better chance now, but in 3-4 years a Mallet with two extra years of experience is going to give us a better chance then a Mallet whos just getting used to starting.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 7, 2012 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
That stupid
As long as we make the play offs there always a chance the pats can win the Superbowl. Get through your head already. Mallet is not going to lead us into the playoffs, Brady will.
I try not to be too extreme about one play, and I know this sounds stupid, but that INT he threw against Ohio State in the (whatever it’s called) bowl….summed Mallett up as a QB to me
Important game…game on the line….he half assed/lazily throws a ball in the direction of 3 OSU players and one Ark player, that was completely blanketed.
Can I get some hot sauce for my doughnut?
I get thats what you think, but I disagree.
And I never said Mallet will lead us to the playoffs, though I think either QB could.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 8, 2012 6:12 PM EST up reply actions
Brady led us to the playoffs virtually every year.
I’ll put my money that Brady leads us to the playoffs again next season, and have another shot at the superbowl.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
My money too
But if you replace Brady with Mallett? And not because of injury? No way. There’s a reason why each snap is numbered and vital in training camp and preseason. The more snaps a QB gets with his WRs, the better chemistry they have when the season starts. You take that away and the offense will suffer no matter which QB is under center.
Keep the faith!
We were virtually one catch away from pretty much sealing the superbowl
and your saying that Brady won’t be able to win any superbowls in his career, despite that he was REALLY close to winning this one (and the loss is not even his fault anyways. Maybe the INT but thats it).
And instead you want to throw in an unproven, unready player who you even say won’t give you a better chance to win a superbowl than Brady? In 3-4 years down the road, I can see him being the successor. But now? Putting him in now? Our chances of going to the superbowl anytime soon go down the drain. Do you want that?
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
I'll say it again
I don’t think we can win the SB with Mallet or Brady in the next 3 years.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 9, 2012 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
I think we have a much better chance to win it than 30 other NFL teams.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
With Brady, thats a good argument.
With Brady, your chances of winning the superbowl skyrocket. Do you really want to say “screw those chances. We are not going to win a superbowl with Brady starting. Might as well give that up and start Mallet.”
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
No true team suckitude is what the Lions have experienced.
They haven’t been relevant for 50 years. They’ve never been to a Super Bowl, and they only just made the playoffs after over a 10 year absence.
The Texans are an expansion team and JUST made their first playoffs ever.
Add in the Browns and the Jaguars and you have the complete list of teams that have never been to a Super Bowl.
The Bills lost four of them in a row and haven’t been relevent since (well maybe a half year this year).
The Vikings are also 0 for 4 in Super Bowls, and can’t seem to get back there.
The Eagles and Bengals are both 0 for 2 at the big game.
The other teams that are 0 for 1 are the Titans, Chargers, Falcons, Seahawks, and the two we spoiled: Eagles and Panthers.
That’s what loss is. 18-1 hurt, and while we aren’t the first 18-1 team (1985 Bears come to mind), we are the first to ever do it in THAT fashion. It was unique.
4th and 2 was barely a blip. We still made the post-season. One and dones are a fact in the modern NFL. BTW we beat that this year.
The missed playoff (get this: 20 teams miss the playoffs EVERY year) was missed on the fourth tie-breaker with a backup QB that hadn’t started since high-school. That was actually pretty damn cool.
The Jets have had two AFCCG chokes in a row. They haven’t visited the Super Bowl since BEFORE the moon landing. How’s that for failure?
There are fans of teams out there that would LOVE to make it to the playoffs once in ten years – even if it was a one and done. It would mean their team was relevant. The Jets fans were rightfully excited about making it to the AFCCG – hell it beats one and done, right? The Cardinals loss in the Super Bowl? It moves them from being one of the teams that have never been to one of the teams that have made it. It’s a huge feather in your cap.
We are blessed to support a team that has done what this one has done. It’s been one heck of a ride, and I don’t know how long it will last. These ARE the good times. Believe me, it could be a lot worse.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Feb 7, 2012 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
Well like I said I'd rather not come close then come close and fall at the end.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad we’re not the Browns, but at least there would be some consistency with that. If you expect to do terrible and you do terrible, thats not a big deal. If each year you think you have a reasonable shot at the SB and you end up falling at the last minute, thats worse then I think alot of people think it is.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 7, 2012 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
I don't want the safe route.
I want to ride the rickety roller coaster hoping the guy who screwed it together wasn’t too stoned and forgot a bolt or twelve. If I die, then I go out with a bang. It’s better than playing it safe on the ground IMO.
What is the worst thing that happened here? We got our hopes up and we were let down. Some other fans get to gloat and we don’t. That’s pretty much it. Our team will mostly be intact next year, and hopefully they’ll plug some holes. Another season, another chance, another hope.
I’m not going to be one of those emotionally divested fans that tempers my expectations, though. Live hard, love hard, and don’t fear. Life’s too short, and at 48 my best years are behind me. As a Tae Kwon Do instructor, though I’m going to keep kicking as long as I possibly can, and I’d expect the Patriots to do the same.
If you’re afraid of getting hurt, I’d say don’t support an NFL football team. There’s disappointment every year for every team. Even the Giants fans were worrying about them when they were 7-7. Maybe the Patriots aren’t as successful because now they have fair weather fans who feel entitled instead of die-hard fans that are hoping for a shot. Home field advantage is hardly an advantage. Something to think about.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Feb 7, 2012 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
amen
Come see the violence inherent in the system, help help I'm being repressed.
by sweetjesusihatethejets on Feb 8, 2012 8:09 AM EST up reply actions
All I got from that
is that you don’t think I should watch football.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 8, 2012 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
Im also a half Raiders fan.
How does it feel you think to have loosing after loosing season? You think we are used to it, that we just shrug it off, and look forward to next year? Listen, ask any Raider fan. They would rather go, and lose in the playoffs. However, they would rather go to the superbowl and lose then lose in the playoffs as well.
You have not experienced a loosing season. You have no idea what it does to a fanbase. Be thankful the pats make the playoffs every year, because one day in our generation, the pats will likely go back to getting loosing seasons. And trust me, there is no more disappointment in a team than that.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
But thats YOU
Look at the playoffs of this year – you would rather lose in the SB, I’d rather have lost to the Ravens.
You claim you would rather come close and fall at the last minute then have a minutes, or weeks, to get used to being failure. Just looking at the playoffs, I am clearly different. If we’re different in that regard, I don’t see why we wouldn’t also be different when it comes to winning seasons.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 9, 2012 8:47 PM EST up reply actions
When faced with either losing in the SB or losing to the Ravens
both options include losing! Since we couldn’t win the SB, all options will include losing! It doesn’t mean you want to lose, but those are the choices.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 10, 2012 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
Then I would rather lose in the superbowl.
Because we at least got there.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
you would rather lose in the SB, I’d rather have lost to the Ravens.
I’d rather lose in the superbowl because I can say that we GOT there compared to 30 other teams who would rather be in our situation. NOT TO MENTION I’m sure the players and coaches and everyone else on this board would say the same thing. You are not making any sense.
You claim you would rather come close and fall at the last minute then have a minutes, or weeks, to get used to being failure.
You have minutes and weeks AFTER the superbowl too if you didn’t know! And imo the pats are not a failure. Look at how far they come with SO much adversity! They got past the best of the AFC in the Ravens. It was close, but they did it. They DESERVED to be in the superbowl, and I am proud of my Patriots for making it there. Its like calling your own child a failure if they used to win contests. Win, Lose, or Tie in the superbowl, this is by far the best season since 07. Even though we lost, it was a great season compared to 30 other teams. If you call making it to the superbowl a failure, than you are a total lost cause, and will NEVER be satisfied with ANYTHING in your life.
Just looking at the playoffs, I am clearly different. If we’re different in that regard, I don’t see why we wouldn’t also be different when it comes to winning seasons.
But we are NOT different! You are being a poor sport, or some kind of whiner. That’s all it is. Lets face it. We both wanted to win the superbowl, and we lost against the same team earlier in the season, and in 07. It hurts more to some people, than most. But loosing in the superbowl is not the end of the world. We have a lot of talent on both sides of the ball, and we are grooming our future QB. You are going to tell me that saying “We lost in the superbowl….. we must sit Brady because its obvious that he will no longer give us any more titles” after loosing in the superbowl is not some form of whining? Of course, it’s possible, but you must understand that this is a tough league.
Our team will win and lose some games. Even the important ones. But to throw your #1 steak out of the basket because some other guys was better than yours, does not mean you can improve upon your recipe, and make yours better as well.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
I don't consider losing the SB to be an accomplishment
because, when you look back on it 20 years from now, nobody’s going to care if you were rebuilding, if you exceeded expectations, etc. When you look back at 2011/2012, there will be 31 teams that lost it, and 1 team that won it. It doesn’t matter if you went 15-1, or if you took a team that had a losing season last year to the NFCCG: You’re still in the 31.
Now, is it greedy to expect a SB every year? Perhaps, but thats not what I’m after. My point is that, if you’re going to be in the 31 anyways, might as well be in the least painful/attention-getting way possible.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 10, 2012 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
Than I would rather lose in the superbowl than in the AFC game.
Because at least I know we got there. I don’t care what anyone else outside of patriot nation thinks. They will know that in 2011, the pats were the ones who made it to the superbowl, and are still an AFC superpower. We will NOT go to the superbowl in the next 3-4 years if your “sit Brady” antic somehow takes into effect. There is no better chance we can get to getting to the superbowl, and winning it, then Brady.
if you’re going to be in the 31 anyways, might as well be in the least painful/attention-getting way possible.
Anyways? As if they were 100% going to lose before the game started, they might as well give up, and lose as less painfully as possible? I’ve got news man, loosing in the superbowl is painful for any fan, and any PLAYER on a football team. To lose on the biggest stage is painful, but at least we got there. You may not care about that, but it’s more noble to lose in the superbowl, than to lose in the AFC game. Of course it will be painful, but sitting Brady does NOTHING to help your team from getting back there, and trying to win it again.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
You're flipping senarios
when I said that, I was referring to the idea of losing to the Ravens or losing to the Giants, not the SB. So yea, anyways.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 10, 2012 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
I woud rather lose to whoever team in the superbowl than the AFC Game.
Because it shows that we can contend with the best.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
And why does that matter?
theres no trophy for being able to hang with the best. Maybe its a good sign for the future, but thats it.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 10, 2012 7:45 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah there's no trophy but it matters because we have been able to do what other AFC teams couldn't do in 2011.
And that IS saying something.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
Reading this thread has made my brain hurt.
To say that we don’t have a shot at the Superbowl because the past losers haven’t been back is far and away just crazy talk. “Going by history”? Guess what bud. Teams don’t falter just because “that’s what all of the other SB losers do”. In just about every case mentioned, those teams were gathered together for one last hoorah before key players either left through free agency or retirement. Who are the Pats losing? Welker is the only person I’d be worried about losing and not being able to replace, and I doubt that’s going to happen.
Think about what you’re suggesting. You’re basically saying that, even though we have the best QB in the history of the NFL, we should sit him and risk not being a good team the next several years because teams normally don’t make it back. Well, hate to burst your bubble here, but this a Patriots team coached by Bill Belichick isn’t one anyone would ever be able to consider normal from the outside looking in. Kicking someone to the curb the night before the Superbowl? I’m pretty sure that’s 100% Belichickian and there isn’t a coach in the league who’d have the guts to do that. I’m guessing you’ve watched the games this season, and so you would know that this defense epitomizes “bend don’t break” a hell of a lot more than any defense I’ve ever seen for sure, which bending that much without breaking definitely doesn’t follow any statistical trend either.
Bench the best player in the league because his team lost the Superbowl despite him playing exceptionally well (a couple bad ones, but I think that 16 completion streak and going 20/24 for 2 TDs and 0 int to start the game off is pretty damn good) just because other teams with a different QB, different leaders, different coaches, and different ownership have all lost the SB followed by losing key players. I REALLY hope you were extremely hydrated when writing this post.
You know, its funny
everbody says I’m crazy for predicting we won’t win the SB, and yet nobody is predicting that we will. Do you think we will win the SB this year?
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 7, 2012 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
I hope we do.
I don’t really make predictions. Predictions are for saps. Who predicted Brady would go down? Anyone? Anyone?
Harrison’s knee? Welker’s knee? Faulk’s knee? Gronk’s ankle?
In a game of collisions, things can change drastically in minutes or seconds. That’s what makes it so uncertain, and also so fun.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Feb 7, 2012 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
I, or rather history, predicted
we would do bad in 2008. Did I know why? No. Did we even do bad? Thats a matter of opinion.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 8, 2012 6:16 PM EST up reply actions
11-5 is pretty good with a season ending injury to a HoF QB.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
We’re not predicting. But we’re all saying there a chance to win as long as the pats make the play offs and improve the team. People are logical enough to realize there are 31 other teams playing and while the team can make the SB the chances of it are as low as any other team right now since no moves have been made and nothing has changed. You’re saying the pats have no chance when the team haven;t made any moves and 7 months away from next season.
I'll put it this way.
I’m predicting that if we sit Brady, that we won’t win the Superbowl any time soon. But while Brady is there, I’d bet everything I own that we have just as big of a shot as any other team, and that’s what being a fan of an NFL team is all about is that glimmer of hope that your team can fight against the odds that every individual team has to face and be the one to bring home that shiny trophy.
Winning. That’s what the NFL is about, and sitting Brady would be the complete polar opposite of what the Patriots would want to do to accomplish that goal.
by indy pats fan on Feb 9, 2012 9:48 AM EST up reply actions
I'd be willing to bet
there were fans that said if we trade Bledsoe and star Brady we’d be throwing away our chance to win more SBs.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 9, 2012 8:43 PM EST up reply actions
No. There were not.
The fans knew that Brady had some talent, but it was asinine to think to throw him in over Bledsoe. In hindsight, we know who the better QB is, but Brady is one in a thousand. Chances of Mallet even being close to Brady’s talent is minimal. With the right grooming, I’m sure he will be. But you seem to forget that Brady has been getting us to the playoffs every single year. There were some bad luck after 07, but I’ll bet my money that he’ll go to the playoffs again next season, and by then, will you still be telling us to sit Brady?
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
The only way I'll say I was wrong in asking to sit Brady
is if we go to either the SB or AFCCG in 2012. Otherwise, I believe more good could have come from getting Mallet experience and testing.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 10, 2012 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
Unbelievable.
So your whole mindset is “The world is dim and gloomy for the pats and Brady. Might as well give up.”
And you may say that that is not what your saying. But it really is. You are telling us to sit a top 3 QB in the HISTORY of the NFL that shows NO SIGNS of slowing down, right after the superbowl loss.
You have absolutely NO argument. All it is is just greedy whining. You didn’t get what you want, and now your throwing a fit of some kind. You need to RELAX, because you need to understand that getting to the superbowl is TOUGH to do. We barely got past the Ravens. By sitting Brady you are essentially tanking the season. Do you really want that? Do you think the patriot TEAM would want that?
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
Brady started for most of a season after Bledsoe was injured
and with the exception of just a couple games with Bledsoe at the helm, he led the team against all odds to win the franchise’s first Superbowl. On the off chance that Brady gets hurt (knock on wood that he doesn’t), and Mallet fights to turn around a season in which the team started out struggling (like Brady did) to win the Superbowl, THEN we can possibly talk about comparing the two situations. Don’t start giving me BS trying to compare our trade of Bledsoe (who was great, but no guaranteed future hall of famer like a certain QB that happens to be on our roster) to trading TFB.
by indy pats fan on Feb 9, 2012 11:05 PM EST up reply actions
Not nessarily comparing
just saying that things that at one time looked insane may turn out to be the better move.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 10, 2012 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
This idea that Super Bowl losers have looked awful is such an exaggeration.
The 2002 Raiders did become awful, but that was because they were a terribly aging team, with Gannon holding them together. When he got too injured, that was the end.
The 2003 Panthers did miss the playoffs in 2004, but were in the NFC Title Game in 2005.
The 2004 Eagles did make the playoffs in 4 of the next 7 seasons, and did make an NFC Title Game four years later.
The 2005 Seahawks won playoff games in each of the next two years.
The 2006 Bears haven’t yet had a season worse than 7-9 since their Super Bowl trip and just last year were in teh NFC Title Game, and were a playoff team this year until Cutler got hurt.
The 2007 Pats have made the playoffs each year, except for one where they went 11-5 with their backup/
The 2008 Cards won the division and won a playoff game the next year.
The 2009 Colts won the division in 2010, and most Colts fans believe that they were a definite Super Bowl contender in 2011 if Manning doesn’t go down (yeah, he means that much, but also the AFC was weak this year).
The 2010 Steelers went 12-4 and probably make noise in the playoffs if Roethlisberger doesn’t hurt his foot (I stil think they give the Pats a game had they not been Tebowed)
Super Bowl losers have done quite well recently
EVH+DLR=BFFs........ God I Hope So!!
by dmstorm22 on Feb 7, 2012 3:05 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Also,
Superbowl winners haven’t fared well the next year. It’s almost impossible to win two in a row.
2001 Pats miss the playoffs.
2002 Tampa falls into mediocrity.
2003 Exception that proves the rule: Pats repeat.
2004 Pats lose in the divisional round.
2005 Steelers go 8-8 and miss the playoffs.
2006 Indy goes one and done
2007 Giants miss the playoffs.
2008 Steelers miss the playoffs again (I think)
2009 Saints lose to the 7-9 Seahawks in the Divisional Round.
2010 Green Bay goes one and done.
Giants didn't miss the playoffs in 2008
They were actually most people’s best team in the league before Plax shot himself. They started 11-1. They did lose their divisional round game to the Eagles though.
EVH+DLR=BFFs........ God I Hope So!!
This is probably the most ridiculous post in the history of SBN.
And that’s saying something, because you have all of GGN to contend with.
I’m sure there’s a lot of Jets, Colts, and Steelers fans that agree with you, albeit for very different reasons.
The Patriots have an MVP caliber, first-ballot Hall of Famer that most other teams in the league would KILL for, and you’re talking about putting him number two on the depth chart so we can get used to losing? I mean seriously, what in the fuck?
Your're the one who brought up getting used to losing
If you wanna do that fine. I want to play him in certain situations, so we can maintain consistent winning seasons into the latter half of the 2010s and early 2020s, avoiding a sudden drop-off into failureness. And like I said, we could have god himself as our QB and I don’t see us winning the SB next year, so listing his accomplishments is kind of pointless.
If this post is as “ridiculous” as everyone says it is, why does it have 3 recs? I’m not using that as a defense, just asking.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 8, 2012 6:22 PM EST up reply actions
You have 3 recs because other people from sites likes to troll
If you’re a jets, Maimi, Bills or anyone in the AFC for that matter and you hear some one say
“Hey lets stop playing by Brady for no good reason”, you’ll be jumping for joy.
He should obviously play in certain situations, none of which include starting a game. I just don’t even understand your point. Do you understand that if you flip a coin 9 times and it comes up heads every time, the next flip is still 50-50 heads or tails?
You have recs because Giants, Jets, Dolphins…pretty much every other team’s fans would love for us to sit Brady on the bench. If there was an anti-rec function, this post would be -200. I’m sorry, when you say “I’d rather go 3-13 and beat the Colts and Jets”, that’s just absurd.
But this isn't a coin flip. I get your point, its a flawed analogy.
and, like I said, I don’t think we’re winning the SB this year. If you’re confident we will, say so.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 9, 2012 8:20 PM EST up reply actions
That's like asking why I would rec a page on GGN saying to keep Sanchez.
Or that the Ravens should release Ray Lewis and Ed Reed because they’re past their prime, or that the Colts should develop Painter into their future starter and spend the picks on other positions. As a New England fan, I’d LOVE for all of those things to happen because they’re all stupid ideas that make my team have a better shot at the big dance.
by indy pats fan on Feb 9, 2012 9:54 AM EST up reply actions
More like Luck
Trading Manning and developing Luck is a very smart move.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 9, 2012 8:25 PM EST up reply actions
The whole point was that those were all idiotic ideas.
Hence why I said I’d be all for the Colts developing Painter as their future QB. Your idea that we should sit the best QB in the NFL today, and arguably ever, because a few teams in completely different situations with completely different personnel and different issues surrounding their team didn’t immediately go back to the Superbowl is probably even more stupid than any of the ones I mentioned.
by indy pats fan on Feb 9, 2012 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
Also, of course we wouldn't win the Superbowl next year with Tebow as our QB
See what I did there?
by indy pats fan on Feb 9, 2012 9:57 AM EST up reply actions
Maintain winning seasons?
I’m sorry but Brady hasn’t gave us winning seasons and playoffs every year? I must be out of my mind to think such a thing….
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
And Brady's retiring in the mid 2010s, so thats exactly my point.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 9, 2012 8:17 PM EST up reply actions
SO LET HIM STAY THE STARTING QB UNTIL HE CANNOT PRODUCE ANYMORE!!
WHen he can’t produce, then he’ll be replaced. He has yet to show me that he cannot get us into the playoffs.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
This has got to be one of the most ridiculous ideas I have ever read
Tom Brady is, in my opinion, still the NFL’s best quarterback. Combined with Bill Belichick, he always gives the Patriots the best shot to win.
You look at this Super Bowl, and you reverse any one of a number of things (one fumble recovery, the safety, Welker’s drop, Manningham’s catch), and the Patriots are probably Super Bowl winners. There’s 30 other teams in the NFL that would love to be in the position that the Patriots were in this year.
The defense is young and improving. The Patriots have more cap room than any legitimate contender. Tom Brady is still at the top of his game and could easily play for another 5 or 6 years.
And you want to bench him?
Come on.
C'mon Greg,
It’s been a popular idea with rival teams. It’s also generated a lot of discussion and face palms. There are some positives to the post, they just aren’t in the idea of benching Brady.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Feb 9, 2012 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with everthing you just said
thing is, none of it has to do with benching him or not. The difference is that, no matter how good we are, I don’t think we’ll win the SB. If we have no chance of winning the SB, why should we be starting Brady?
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 9, 2012 8:27 PM EST up reply actions
So, we could be without a doubt the best team in the NFL
and have no shot at the Superbowl? You have got to be the most fucking dedicated troll out there to go through with all of this, because there is no fucking way you are this stupid.
by indy pats fan on Feb 9, 2012 11:11 PM EST up reply actions
You know, its funny
Everbody said:
“Packers are the best team in the NFL. They almost went undefeated, and have the easiest path to the SB. Rodgers is having one of the greatest seasons by a QB in history, and they’re going to be tough to stop”
I said:
“Packers won the SB last year. Teams that won the SB haven’t so much as won a playoff game since 2002. Packers are essentially a lame duck team that, no matter how good it is, will find a way to lose to the Giants.”
Who was right? You talk as though I’m just pulling this stuff out of my ass, making it up. Do you think I would be predicting this if the evidence wasn’t massively stacked my my favor? But go ahead, think as you like, we’ll see whos right.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 10, 2012 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
Everbody said:
"Packers are the best team in the NFL. They almost went undefeated, and have the easiest path to the SB. Rodgers is having one of the greatest seasons by a QB in history, and they’re going to be tough to stop"
I said:
"Packers won the SB last year. Teams that won the SB haven’t so much as won a playoff game since 2002. Packers are essentially a lame duck team that, no matter how good it is, will find a way to lose to the Giants."
Who was right? You talk as though I’m just pulling this stuff out of my ass, making it up. Do you think I would be predicting this if the evidence wasn’t massively stacked my my favor? But go ahead, think as you like, we’ll see whos right.
Its tough to win superbowls back to back. No doubt. But its tough every year, for every team, no matter if they won the superbowl the previous year or not, or lost in the AFC game or the first round, to go to the superbowl and win it. Guess what? You are not the only one who thought the Packers were going to lose. Although my basis wasn’t “teams who won the superbowl the previous year don’t win the superbowl the next year.” My basis was “The packers may be full of themselves. the giants are in the playoffs as perhaps the hottest team in the NFL. They are playing great football, and I see the Giants loosing to the packers.”
I’m sorry to say man, but the path to the superbowl is a tough one. I don’t think sitting Brady helps anything in our cause. Its more of just wasting a top 3 QB in the history of the NFL’s time and skill, on the bench, and putting in an unproven QB who is raw, and only has one year of experience on the bench. So what evidence are you exactly using that is stacked in your favor? lol
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
At that point
the Giants had won a somewhat but not really close game against the average Cowboys, and had a bit of a blowout against the average Falcons. I don’t see how you call them hot, at least at that point.
I don’t like being boxed in by lame choices. Either we can start Mallet when we have alot of options, which is now, or we can wait until we have absolutely no choice but to start him because Brady’s retiring. What if Mallet turns into a bust? Its better if we learn that now rather then later.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 10, 2012 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
Well Mallet will have 3-4 years under Brady
so when Brady retires, he’ll be more prepared, and more fine tuned. I find that a huge plus side.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
And if he's a bust
Having those 3-4 years under Brady will reveal just about as much as throwing him into the fire would. I trust that Belichick, with his first Superbowl ring coming before I was even born, has had more than enough experience that he can figure out a talent over several years of practices, preseason games, OTAs, etc. and decide whether or not he wants the man to be the eventual leader of this team.
by indy pats fan on Feb 10, 2012 9:01 PM EST up reply actions
I actually predicted the Packers to lose as well
But I said it was due to the ability of the Giants to match up well with the Packers. To quote one of the all time classic movies in the Lion King, “It’s in the past; it doesn’t matter.” You should really take a statistical analysis course or something because the fundamental number one rule when it comes to statistics is correlation does not imply causation. A team being a part of the Superbowl has NOTHING AT ALL to do with their success the next season. What DOES though, is the personnel issues due to free agency, age, etc. that arise every single new season. No one bats 1.000 when it comes to making decisions over drafting and replacing the players a team may lose after a season, so of course a team that just made it to the Superbowl likely won’t be there again. The Cardinals couldn’t just waltz on over to the local QB store and pick up another Kurt Warner.
With that being said, the actual SB appearance does NOTHING AT ALL to influence a team’s chances. What does is the extreme influence of the league to promote parity among teams, which leaves odds stacked against the teams that are consistently well off to stay that way and just makes Brady and Belichick’s accomplishments that much more remarkable. No respectable team should EVER throw away a season in order to build upon it’s future. That’s the beauty of sports: you know that those teams will always do what they can to put forth the best possible product. The Rams could have easily tanked their season to get the #1 pick away from Indy, which I’m sure would be worth a whole slew of draft picks. But it’s that raw sense of pride and the self-preserving need for accomplishment that makes these people always strive to win games, and I would immediately shun an organization who didn’t do the obvious choice when it came to putting forth the best team out there to try and win the Superbowl each and every year. And no matter how hard you try and argue it, that team will be led by none other than TFB for as long as he is playing anywhere near the level he is currently at.
by indy pats fan on Feb 10, 2012 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
Say what you want about the past
but in my experience, its right probably 90+% of the time. Maybe theres no connection, maybe its just a coincidence, but if its right 90% of the time it sure seems like a good way of predicting.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 10, 2012 5:07 PM EST up reply actions
Whats right 100% of the time
is that its ALWAYS difficult to get a superbowl win in general.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
Good argument starter....definitely "most comments" prize winner
In a real world, we have Brady starting until his contract is over. He, like any great player, has flaws, but, not very many.
A more interesting point would be Brady’s effect on the wide receiver development process. Some have mentioned that Tom “freezes” out receivers that he doesn’t like. Leaving the Pats short another wide out or two. This may in some ways be accurate as they have not developed anyone in the last 3 years or so. This is balanced by having two of the best tight ends in the game…so who cares?
Branch is at the end of his career. Is it possible for Brady to “accept” a new wide out next season? Does it matter? Would Belichick spend the money? We’ll see, but, I say long shot.
Mallet will now start his career as the “potentially better than the starter guy.” He may be a good QB, but, he won’t be starting anything until Brady’s deal is over.
Actually,
definitely “most comments” prize winner
It’s a long ways away. The record for a “regular” post is over 600. The record for an OTA-like post is around 1500, though they usually start a new thread before then because they take too long to load. I’ve been on some threads with over 2000 and the system gets really squirrelly.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Feb 9, 2012 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
The Brady freezes out receivers theory is just that
and thrown out there by the usual talking heads to try and figure out why a receiver doesn’t work out.
If you think about it, what WRs is Brady supposedly freezing out? Troy Brown, Jabar Gaffney, David Patten, David Givens, Deion Branch and Wes Welker all worked well with Brady, as did Randy Moss and Dante Stallworth. Plenty of TEs worked well with Brady. So who is he freezing out? Chad Jackson, who never did film work or stayed after practice and never succeeded with any other team? That wasn’t Brady’s fault. Greg Lewis? He never ran the routes he was supposed to run. Taylor Price? No one knows what happened with him and it’s too early to say if he’ll catch on with another team.
Keep the faith!
Too add on
I also believe that Ocho, given branches snaps would have the same if not better numbers but he barely saw the field
Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit.
Edward Abbey
by TONYBOI08 on Feb 9, 2012 4:01 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
My theory is this:
Brady has a receiver progression that he follows for any play.
The top three to four targets (Welker, Gronk, Herndo, Branch – in that order) are open, so he hits them. When they aren’t open, he doesn’t have enough time to get further down the progressions.
I think the “problem” is twofold:
1) Welker, Gronk, and Herndo are big enough mismatches that they get open most of the time.
2) Brady doesn’t have enough time to progress beyond them.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Feb 9, 2012 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
Brady's had decent protection, though
I don’t see that as being a big problem. It used to be, but it seems to have gotten alot better in 2011.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 9, 2012 8:31 PM EST up reply actions
Some explaination
Look at the Colts – nobody would be surprised if they traded Manning and started Luck. This is the smart move for their franchise, and the one I think they are most likely to make. We’re in a similar, but slightly different situation:
Unlike the Colts, we don’t have a 1st overall pick. This means if we go with Mallet, or Hoyer, or any other QB, they’re less likely to succeed. Brady, though, was a 199th pick, and he turned out better then the 1st overall pick that is Manning. Because where they’re picked doesn’t always correctly predict how good they will be, its great when you can test out a pick. This were we have an advantage over the Colts: We have 2+ years to solve the issue, whereas they have to solve it now. Giving Mallet, or whoever we want to go with, increased playing time will help us figure out just what we can expect.
What seems to be another advantage is we can have two QBs on the same time. Brady can help coach up Mallet, and if Mallet doesn’t turn out well we can go back to Brady. The Colts have to choose between one or the othere, whereas we can have both.
I admit I might have been a little extreme with this. I stand by my prediction that we won’t win the SB this year and my doubt that we’ll ever win another SB in the Brady Era, but it may not hurt to give him another chance. If we’re 10-0, or 8-2 stick with Brady, but if it we’re something like 6-4 while the Jets are 8-2 I still say we turn the focus to getting Mallet NFL ready.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 9, 2012 8:40 PM EST reply actions
Pats aren't even close to the Colts' situation
especially with their almost complete coaching staff and front office turnover. Unlike Tom Brady, Peyton Manning’s career is in jeopardy, as well as his contract situation in Indy.
Colts don’t have to choose one over the other. They can keep Peyton and still draft Luck if they want.
There is no question that Tom Brady will be exponentially better than Ryan Mallet. You know it. I know it. The American people know it. Unless it’s absolutely necessary, the team just will not benefit from having two quarterbacks, especially if whatever new WRs the Pats pick up are forced to get used to the styles & tendencies of two QBs instead of one.
Mallet will learn a lot from just being around Brady, and he is already allowed to be part of the sideline huddles even when he’s been inactive on game days. Brady learned a lot from being around Bledsoe that way.
Again, unless it’s absolutely necessary, I believe it would be foolish to let Brady lead the team to 10-0 or 8-2 and then deliberately change what’s been working. If I saw another team do that for reason other than injury I’d think the coach was out of his gourd.
Keep the faith!
I'm wodering silver
will you still be chanting “Sit Brady” when he has us in the playoffs again next season?
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
Have you read what he's been saying?
He would seriously rather have us go 3-13 and beat the Colts and Jets than 13-3 and lose in the playoffs. He has to just be trolling hardcore.
by indy pats fan on Feb 9, 2012 11:15 PM EST up reply actions
I don't believe NCS is trolling
but I don’t agree with what he’s saying. The Patriots have remained consistently contenders, despite personnel changes and gaping holes in their roster at times and I see them keeping that level up through however many years Brady has left. Cutting his playing time earlier than necessary to break in the next potential franchise QB isn’t being a good steward of Brady’s value to the team. When it’s time to move on, they’ll move on and surround the new guy with a plan to help him succeed like they did with Brady.
Keep the faith!
...
So when I say I want to try out Mallet, I’m a spoiled idiot who has no idea what it would be like to have a losing season. Then when I state why I don’t think a “losing season” is as bad as you make it out to be, I’m a troll. It seems to me like you’re trying to demonize, or perhaps troll-ize, me over a difference in opinion.
Copied from above, with a few changes: because, when you look back on it 20 years from now, nobody’s going to care if you were rebuilding, if you exceeded expectations, etc. When you look back at 2011/2012, there will be 31 teams that lost it, and 1 team that won it. It doesn’t matter if you went 15-1, if you took a team that had a losing season last year to the NFCCG, or if you went 13-3: You’re still in the 31.
My point is that, if you’re going to be in the 31 anyways, might as well do it in the least painful way (by avoiding emotional roller-coasters in the final two minutes) or even making it as enjoyable as possible by beating key rivals.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 10, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
What key statistical evidence are you using to say that the Patriots are going to be in that 31?
And I don’t mean some BS about how the SB losers haven’t fared well over the past 10 years, because those two are simple correlation due to the league’s promotion of parity, which Belichick and Brady obviously aren’t a part of (In case you haven’t noticed, Brady’s only missed the playoffs once in his career as a QB in the NFL, and is therefore an obvious outlier in the correlation of the NFL’s attempts at parity). And you’re actually wrong. The 49ers Harbaugh will always have that reputation as the coach who accomplished turning around a team so quickly and so successfully, that botched kick for the Ravens will be stuck in the back of Ravens fans heads for as long as they watch football, and when discussing a franchise’s success, the times going to the big dance are often mentioned just as much as the times having won it. Each and every year, it doesn’t matter if you’re a player or a coach; you’re going to be remembered by the legacy you leave behind on the people who sit through every Sunday to watch you play the game. There are parts of this game that a fan will always be able to take with him or her for the rest of his/her life. For example, I’ll personally never forget the one handed catch by Randy Moss over Darelle Revis along with several other plays that I fortunately (or unfortunately in a certain sticky helmet situation) watched happen, and I will always remember those just as much as who won the Superbowl in a given year.
by indy pats fan on Feb 10, 2012 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
20 years from now
Randy Moss over Darelle Revis will be a minor blip on the radar when compared to things like 16-0, SBs, etc. Probably even today most people other then Pats/Jets fans don’t even remember it
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 10, 2012 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
Right, but my point is that everyone has their own individual plays that they'll never forget
There’s a lot more than just Superbowls that each individual person will never forget. Sure, if you take the general public, it’ll mostly just be Superbowl winners that they have in common. But people enjoy watching their teams play hard and win games in the regular season too, and replacing Brady while he’s still statistically in his prime is damaging our team way too much in the short term, especially when throwing Mallet into the fire as the starter in place of a Brady who’s still leading the team to the Superbowl despite several apparent weaknesses throughout the team is going to hurt him much more than letting him sit until Brady is ready to hand over the reigns.
Who knows, maybe Mallet isn’t even that good and the management has an entirely different plan as to who the eventual successor to the franchise QB is.
by indy pats fan on Feb 10, 2012 8:55 PM EST up reply actions
That depends.
if we can go to the AFCCG or SB, like I said I’ll admit I was wrong. If we miss the playoffs or have another 1 and done, I’d say we would have been better off testing out Mallet.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 10, 2012 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
lol yeah right man.
“Lets tank the season and test Mallet out. Brady is not going to get us anywhere….. Oh wait unless he gets us to the AFC game….. yeah….”
Your mindset is very flawed. I’m glad you are not the patriots GM. If we miss the playoffs, I’ll be worried. If we lose in the 1st playoff game, then I’ll be surprised. In either case, Mallet will NOT fair any better. You would rather sacrifice a potentially superbowl winning season so you can tank the season and try out Mallet. You are showing your weak side here man. A true “the sky is falling!” type of guy. You were probably one of those guys who said we should trade Brady and start cassel after 2008…. yeah look at how that worked out. lol
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
No, actually, I wasn't one of those guys
What you keep going back to is the idea that “well, Mallet wouldn’t fair any better.” This is not what I’m suggesting. I’m suggesting that the short-term doesn’t matter, and we should be focused on the long-term of developing Mallet’s career.
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 10, 2012 4:54 PM EST up reply actions
There is NO reason to do that though!
That’s like saying “might as well get rid of ed reed. He won’t win us anything, and we might as well bring in the young, unproven dude.”
I want a superbowl. Brady give me the best chance of that. No one else. 3-4 years down the road? Depends on how Brady does.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
It would be an insult to all of the loyal fans of a franchise for it to not try and put forth the best possible team year in and year out, but when it comes down to it, a team will always have the odds stacked against them when it comes to winning a Superbowl. There’s two ways to react when you’re going against rough odds: one, wilt away and hope the next one’s handed to you, or rise up and try and do whatever you can to beat the odds and be crowned the champion. The former is what you’re suggesting; the latter is what playing a sport is all about.
by indy pats fan on Feb 10, 2012 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
The funny thing about this is
The AFC is pathetically weak that only 3 different teams have made the superbowl since 2000. And Pats made it 5 Indy 2 Steelers 3. If we Go by those odds We may only have to compete with the steelers for the Superbowl
Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit.
Edward Abbey
Didn't the Ravens win in 2002 or something?
Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner
by New Century Silver on Feb 10, 2012 7:41 PM EST up reply actions
2000 I'm pretty sure
I think it was winners were the Rams in 99 and Ravens in 2000, but I might have those two switched up.
by indy pats fan on Feb 10, 2012 8:50 PM EST up reply actions
U got it right
AFC has no prarity, all the good teams in the NFC
Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit.
Edward Abbey
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