The state of the Franchise, and its future.

by Jack'sAxe on Feb 6, 2012 3:19 PM EST

We were literally one catch away. If welker does make that catch, its likely going to be game over. The Giants will have to use their last timeout most likely, and we could have got a TD with the way things were going that drive. but alas, Welker is still king in my eyes. I love the guy, and he shouldn't let this hang over his head. It was a team loss, and that's that. Now onto the offseason.

Going into the offseason, there is a lot of promise for this team.WIth what the defense was facing, we now know that our defense is very promising, and has talent, but needs some tweaking to make it more awesome. Our offense could use another WR (but in free agency I would prefer, and not a rookie), C, but that's all I got. But in any case, I know a way that the pats can change the game again offensive wise. And that person will be the first I will evaluate for you in my next post.

Positions I will look at: DE, OLB, FS, CB, WR, C, OT, and I think that's it. Stay tuned for my rookie evaluations. :)

The views expressed in these FanPosts are not necessarily those of the writers or SBNation.

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Some questions, from someone who didn't watch the game

1: Why do you necessarily think that catch would have ended the game? It wasn’t for a TD, and if we score a FG theres still time on the clock and and they can still win by one point.

2: Why didn’t we score 30+? From what I’ve read there weren’t any turnovers, and wasn’t much pressure. Normally in situations like that we score 30+.

3: When did Gronk get hurt? How did Gronk get hurt?

4: Of all the games this year, I believe this was the one in which we scored the least. How the f’in hell do we let this happen, and who is to blame?

Now, about the future of the franchise, I think we can either go two ways: Either we’ll fall back to where we were in 2008, with 2012, 2013, and maybe 2014 being really awful by our standards. Or, less likely, we’ll see Angry Belichick come out, and end up blowing out everybody 50-10 for the 2012 season. I say less likely because teams that lose the SB tend to do terrible for the next sevearl years. However, alot of streaks have been broken lately (our home win record, our not-losing-3-games-in-a-row record, our playoff one and dones, etc. Normally teams that win a SB don’t do good following year either, but we were able to repeat.) so who knows.

No matter what happens, it really sucks that we missed such a great chance for revenge. Of all the QBs in the NFL, Eli is the most dislikable, and that has nothing to do with the fact that I’m a Pats fan.

Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner

by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 3:42 PM EST reply actions

1: Why do you necessarily think that catch would have ended the game? It wasn’t for a TD, and if we score a FG theres still time on the clock and and they can still win by one point.

I didn’t say would. i said COULD win the game. Well that’s what I meant. If welker makes that catch, we get a first down, and we are in the redzone. A place where we are very effective in, and we have momentum.

2: Why didn’t we score 30+? From what I’ve read there weren’t any turnovers, and wasn’t much pressure. Normally in situations like that we score 30+.

Not sure. May be because on one drive Brady heaved it up, and it went for an INT (there is a turnover), and the offense was facing drops and penalties. Very uncharacteristic.

3: When did Gronk get hurt? How did Gronk get hurt?

High ankle sprain from bernard Pollard against the Ravens.

4: Of all the games this year, I believe this was the one in which we scored the least. How the f’in hell do we let this happen, and who is to blame?

The team is to blame. they lost as a team. they couldn’t get the plays when it mattered. That’s as plain as I can tell you. The welker catch was huge, but so was Brady’s INT, and other circumstances. However, the Giants also have a good defense. They made plays more than we did.

Either we’ll fall back to where we were in 2008

That’s if Brady gets injured. No way we’ll have that year.

Listen, the pats are a major contender every year. We’ll be fine. We’ll be going on all cylinders starting week 1.

I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP

by Jack'sAxe on Feb 6, 2012 3:57 PM EST up reply actions

Thats the third time its happened, though

wasn’t the 2007 SB our lowest scoring game of that year? The Jets last year (man, doesn’t that seem long ago?) seemed pretty low scoring, considering how we were putting up 30+ every game for the latter half of the season.

I have a hard time believing something can happen three times and have it all be a coincidence. There has to be something the Patriots aren’t doing that they should be when it comes to preparing the offense for big post-season games.

Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner

by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 4:08 PM EST up reply actions

The teams that make it to the Super Bowl tend to be able to keep other teams from scoring while they can score.

The Giants has a decent defense, but there were plenty of plays that the Pats left on the field.

One other thing is that the best team doesn’t always win it all. Often, it is the team that deals with injuries the best.

It’s tough to pay well for a quality third stringer and stay under the cap.

The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Feb 6, 2012 4:36 PM EST up reply actions

yep.

by Jack'sAxe on Feb 6, 2012 5:55 PM EST up reply actions

It seems like the Pats leave plays on the field during big games alot

the int in 2007… the Crumpler not-TD against the Jets last year. I’m not saying it only happens in big games, but the chances of it happening then seem waaaaaaaaaaaaay more likely.

Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner

by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 7:47 PM EST up reply actions

The consequences are bigger: you lose and you go home.

Don’t know if that makes them have more mistakes, or if you just notice their mistakes more.

Could be either or both.

The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Feb 6, 2012 7:59 PM EST up reply actions

There would have been 4:00 with the clock rolling if welker makes the catch

We’re up 2 at that point the G-mne have squandered 2 of their 3 timeouts already.
OK so the ball is on the 20-18yd line 1st down clock rolling.
The Giants have to force a FG which mean the Pats are content to run the ball, maybe a 1st down in there, or a TD throw on playaction as the giants know the pats are trying to burn clock.
At a minimum they could run it down to the 2 minute warning go up 5 or 9 and make the Giants beat them with no timeouts.

GFY

by TFBismywingman on Feb 6, 2012 4:01 PM EST up reply actions

I feel like your expectations are way too high

I’m not sure you realize how ridiculous the Pats streak has been since their first SB. To do what they’ve done over this course of time, in terms of winning, is fairly remarkable in this day and age. It’s hard to maintain depth in FA.

Furthermore, most teams don’t score 30+ a game. Patriots did this year, as did the Saints and Packers. As bad as the Giants defense was ranked this year, a lot of that was due to injury, and this was as healthy as the Giants D has been all season. When healthy, the Giants D is quite good, and there’s a reason why most folks still think defenses win championships (and give credit to the Pats D for playing a heck of a game).

The Pats missed some opportunities, but the Giants didn’t let them get the big play and tightened up in the red zone. The Pats D did the same to the Giants until basically the Manningham catch. The Giants were fairly sound in their tackling.

Now, a fair question to ask is perhaps the offensive scheme/gameplan for the game. This was a Giants D that was probably susceptible to the run, and this was a Patriots offense that was basically down 1 big weapon with Gronk not 100%. I kept wondering if the Patriots could pound out a drive by rotating BGE and Ridley, amongst others, and perhaps wear down the Giants D a bit.

If you want to use history as a judge, the Patriots bounced back from the Brady injury season (08) with very good 2009/2010/2011 seasons. Just not good enough to win the SB, but again, SB’s are as much about the best team as they are about who is hot and what match-ups occur.

by toonsterwu on Feb 6, 2012 4:38 PM EST up reply actions

I wouldn't call 2009 good

And I don’t see why 30s are too much to expect. Look against the Ravens – the Giants D might be good, but the Ravens is better. We also had 3 turnovers, and yet we put up 20 points. If we can put up 20 points with three turnovers on an elite defense, we should be able to put up 30 points with no turnovers against a slightly above average defense.

Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner

by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 7:49 PM EST up reply actions

again

i think that has as much to do with flawed expectations. 10-6 and the playoffs is a good season. It’s not a great season, but it’s a good season.

Ravens D is different from the Giants D. You can’t compare the two. In passing situations, the Giants are a superior pass rushing unit than the Ravens, with their ability to go 4 DE’s up front that are all quick and tough. Giants secondary, when healthy, is close to the Ravens unit (Ed Reed’s play slipped a tiny bit, and their CB’s were good, but not elite). The Ravens, though, are very well-versed in the scheme and have an excellent front 7 that operate the scheme very well.

That analogy doesn’t really work for me because in the NFL, match-ups are a big deal. Furthermore, the Giants were banged up most of the year, but the defense came together late in the year and through their playoff run. Again, a good playoff run is as much about match-ups and getting hot (and healthy) as it is about whether or not a team is “elite”.

by toonsterwu on Feb 6, 2012 10:53 PM EST up reply actions

Things would be alot easier

if it didn’t feel like we were missing opportunities. If we had won in 2007 and maybe 2006 I think losses would be alot easier to take, but I right now I feel like we still have to cement ourselves as the greatest dynasty/QB/Coach in history.

Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner

by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 11:16 PM EST up reply actions

Is that what your worried about?

Every pats fan wants cement ourselves as the greatest dynasty/QB/Coach in history. But the truth is, its freakin hard to do that. Is it frustrating that we hang on the edge of it, but could not yet reach it? It is. But realistically, we are better off than 30 other teams in the NFL. Be thankful that we have such a great team to root for, and be in the playoffs virtually every year.

by Jack'sAxe on Feb 6, 2012 11:27 PM EST up reply actions

I dunno

really just 2007, I guess. 2006 was bad because we were so far ahead, and really the only reason this was bad was because it was against the Giants, which I’d have nothing against if it weren’t for 2007.

Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner

by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 11:47 PM EST up reply actions

Well shit happens.

And the pats are still a top 3 team in the NFL. Top 5 at the least, and will be for the next 3-5 years.

by Jack'sAxe on Feb 7, 2012 12:38 AM EST up reply actions

think about it another way

people are praising the giants for their run of winning seasons, but the Giants are no where near close to what the Patriots have done since that first Super Bowl.

Again, what the Patriots have done since that first SB is in it’s own class for this era. It’s fairly clear that the team of this era are the Pats, and not the Colts or Giants, as the Pats didn’t decline much despite key losses and injuries over the years. You simply can’t compare eras – the Steelers could keep all their guys back then and build continuity.

by toonsterwu on Feb 7, 2012 1:17 PM EST up reply actions

i mean

5 Super Bowls in a decade is damn remarkable in it’s own right. It’s the sign of a dominant organization. Sure, losing 2 SB’s suck, but that speaks more to situations and match-ups. Organizationally, there’s no one even close to how the Pats operate. It’s why teams want the Pats people, despite some fairly noticeable struggles by some folks that left.

by toonsterwu on Feb 7, 2012 1:18 PM EST up reply actions

Few big questions that need answering this offseason...

1) Who art thou, Devin McCourty? Are you a cornerback? Are you a free safety? If you’re the former, then we are actually pretty stacked with young talent at that position – yourself, Kyle Arrington, Ras-I Dowling and Sterling Moore. Probably not worth a top draft selection if we have all four slated to be cornerbacks. In that case, our free safety position is absolutely abysmal. Actually our whole safety situation is – after Chung, there’s nobody I want back with the team in a major position, really.

If he’s a free safety, then we have decent starting depth at both positions – Chung and Devin at safety, the other three youngsters at corner, but we will need upgrades at the back end of those rotations. Regardless, safety looks like a prime need heading into the draft.

2) To 3-4 or to 4-3? This actually shouldn’t change much, but it’s worth noting. 6 of our front 7 starters are set: Deaderick (RE in 3-4, LE in 4-3), Love (NT, DT), Wilfork (NT/DE, DT), Spikes (MLB/ILB), Mayo (OLB in 3-4, ILB in 4-3), Ninkovich (OLB regardless). The 7th guy is going to be that elusive 3-4 OLB/4-3 DE pass-rushing fiend that we’ve talked about non-stop the last four years. Is Carter back? Anderson? Can they play OLB? I hated the defense we played to start the Super Bowl with Tracy White playing as the 7th guy.

It does get interesting, though. What to do with Jermaine Cunningham? Assuming Jeff Tarpinian is back, do we still need White and Niko? If we go 3-4, that’s a crazy amount of ILBs (Counting Fletcher and not Guyton, that’s what…6? 7?) In a 3-4, our OLB depth is questionable – it’s substantially better in a 4-3. Half our personnel seems suited for the 3-4, while the other half is better at 4-3. I love the interchangeability, but let’s master one first.

3) Ah, wide receiver. Wesley will be back. After that, your guess is as good as mine. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a bunch of new faces next year.

by wildcat61 on Feb 6, 2012 5:01 PM EST reply actions

The safety class this year isn't very good.

It might make sense to keep Devin at FS, and pick up a cornerback.

The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Feb 6, 2012 5:13 PM EST up reply actions

Actually..... there is a safety I am highly interested in that COULD help.

But alas, I need to research him more.

by Jack'sAxe on Feb 6, 2012 5:56 PM EST up reply actions

but your right. Overall this year's safety class is not that great.

by Jack'sAxe on Feb 6, 2012 5:56 PM EST up reply actions

Actually, I'm not right.

I’m just relaying Ninja’s thoughts, and they are usually spot on.

The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Feb 6, 2012 5:59 PM EST up reply actions

Hahah. I think it's a little too early to tell, but I'm sure the Pats Pulpit brain trust will be heavily examining safeties this year.

Safeties, interior linemen, pass-rushers and wide receivers are going to get an abnormal amount of attention on this blog. Some things will never change.

by wildcat61 on Feb 6, 2012 6:04 PM EST up reply actions

Ninja? you mean Rich?

Aaron Williams and Markelle Martin are the only two safeties I looked at and look decent. Aaron is who I’m interested. I need to closely examine his video on youtube more, and I need to know how his tackling is. but from all accounts, he can get turnovers nicely, which would be nice for our defense. I think overall, our defense has great tackling anyways, so having a ball hawk like him could be nice.

Again, I need to watch more video on him, and I will look at other safeties in the draft.

by Jack'sAxe on Feb 6, 2012 6:06 PM EST up reply actions

Oh not Rich I think.....

I know who you mean by Ninja, but I havent seen him in a while. lol

by Jack'sAxe on Feb 6, 2012 6:08 PM EST up reply actions

He said one guy is a knock off of Chung, and we've got that covered. Don't remember the name.

Wouldn’t be surprised if McC stayed at safety.

The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Feb 6, 2012 6:17 PM EST up reply actions

I won't be surprised either.

If he does well in that position in camp, then I guess I could see it. Don’t know how good he’ll be there though. If plays safety like a CB, it may not be what we want.

by Jack'sAxe on Feb 6, 2012 9:17 PM EST up reply actions

Wheres Ninja ?

'You are banned from Gang Green Nation'
"You can browse the blog, but you can't participate."

"BANNED LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

by BostonBeasts on Feb 6, 2012 8:04 PM EST up reply actions

Hanging out on another board.

The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
Some people can learn from the mistakes of others, while some people need to pee on the electric fence themselves.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Feb 7, 2012 12:31 PM EST up reply actions

Aaron Williams...on the Bills?

Or is there another one I’m not aware of? Haha

by wildcat61 on Feb 6, 2012 6:15 PM EST up reply actions

That's the only Aaron Williams I'm aware too

Maybe he’s thinking we should propose a trade to the Bills??

by waldoon on Feb 6, 2012 8:20 PM EST up reply actions

Thus far, I like Markelle Martin ahead of Williams.

Harrison Smith(ND) and George Iloka(Boise) look like awesome players I’d love to have too. We’ll see what the Combine tells us.

It is what it is

by Middlesex on Feb 6, 2012 7:44 PM EST up reply actions

Trumaine Johnson out of Montana (home of Dane Fletcher)

Big corner who plays S too. He’ll probably be available in the late 3rd, early 4th.

by waldoon on Feb 6, 2012 8:23 PM EST up reply actions

Iloka looked like he didn't have very good tackling technique.

But I’ll look at them both more.

by Jack'sAxe on Feb 6, 2012 9:18 PM EST up reply actions

Wondering if Stephon Gilmore might be a S candidate

He’s a big physical corner that has decent tackling technique who plays in the SEC. A selection like that offers 3 potential DBs (Gilmore, Dowling, and McCorty) that might have the flexibility of playing both CB and S. Just a thought . . .

by waldoon on Feb 7, 2012 10:44 PM EST up reply actions

No Love for Harrison Smith or Mark Barron?

'You are banned from Gang Green Nation'
"You can browse the blog, but you can't participate."

"BANNED LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

by BostonBeasts on Feb 6, 2012 8:03 PM EST up reply actions

I just started looking at players. lol

give me time. ;)

by Jack'sAxe on Feb 6, 2012 9:18 PM EST up reply actions

I don't think Barron will be available at 27 overall.

Even if he is, I’d still take a DT/DE like Michael Brockers or WR Alshon Jeffery over him if either are available. I think Barron looks as good as he does mostly because it’s Alabama’s D.

It is what it is

by Middlesex on Feb 6, 2012 9:38 PM EST up reply actions

Hard fought game.

I agree Jack, Welker makes that catch, the game is likely over. It was a tough catch to make, but as the ball got there, my heart sank…

I feel bad for him, that shit stays with these players forever.

In simple, general terms, I think the Giants three WR’s were the difference. If we trade WR’s the Pats win.

You’ll be back, I know you know this. We’ll talk again, cheers mate.

Ernie Accorsi to Wellington Mara upon drafting Eli Manning, "This kid id going to win you a championship, and he's going to win you more than one."
Ernie is the Man(ning)

by tommy d. on Feb 6, 2012 7:10 PM EST reply actions

Cheers. :)

by Jack'sAxe on Feb 6, 2012 9:19 PM EST up reply actions

The more I think about it,

the more I think the Pats are going to go all in with this draft unless we get some great offers for the 31st and 63rd overall picks(we’ll retain the NO-1st and OAK-2nd rounders). By “great offers”, I mean the other team needs to give up their matching 2013 picks and lower 2012 draft picks. I think Hoyer(RFA) will get shipped off for a 4th rounder.

They don’t need OTs. Matt Light will still be here, Nate Solder and Sebastien Vollmer vying for RT. Marcus Cannon can play either G or T, and I suspect they’ll want to eventually work him to RG in the place of Brian Waters who will retire either this year or next year. They got decent depth, especially since they’ll probably keep Dan Connolly as the primary backup interior-lineman and snag a C in the draft.

For OLBs, I think we’ll be pleasantly-surprised by Markelle Carter. Mark Anderson should be resigned and Rob Ninkovich has developed nicely. LB and OT are probably our deepest positions after TE and Q so unless some ridiculous talent is available, I doubt BB will jump for it.

As you know I’m all for a 3-4 DE. All for a WR. All for a C. All for a FS, and all for a CB if it’s the best talent available. Pats will have a lot of caproom for the 2012 season so I’m sure they’ll make some splashes in FA with more than just Brandon Lloyd.

It is what it is

by Middlesex on Feb 6, 2012 8:01 PM EST reply actions

Isn't Andre Carter a DE?

He was the AFC’s best pass-rusher last year.. why do we need another?

Oh my god a floor zombie! Oh wait, thats you
- Toby Turner

by New Century Silver on Feb 6, 2012 8:32 PM EST up reply actions

4-3 DE.

Not a 3-4 DE.

by Jack'sAxe on Feb 6, 2012 9:21 PM EST up reply actions

They need another OT just in case though.

Light will be there, but I don’t know how good he’ll be. Perhaps it is too early for an OT, but I mean to have them get an OT around the 6th or 7th round really. Just for depth.

I am interested to see Carter AND Cunningham next offseason. Keep in mind I am just looking at players in those positions in the draft as a just in case thing. I am not saying it is a great position of need.

by Jack'sAxe on Feb 6, 2012 9:21 PM EST up reply actions

I'd keep expectations for Cunningham low. He really fell down the depth chart.

And no, they really don’t need another OT. They got 3 quality Tackles as it is, and now Nate Solder/Marcus Cannon can finally go through a full training camp to work on their technique. Sebastien Vollmer should be healthy and Matt Light is playing his best lately. If they’re unsure about Vollmer they might wait to see if they can get one in next year’s draft, as many of the Tackles are going high this year.

It is what it is

by Middlesex on Feb 6, 2012 9:30 PM EST up reply actions

Light played his best last year

but that doens’t mean he’ll be at the same level the next year. having 4 OTs is fine.

by Jack'sAxe on Feb 6, 2012 10:58 PM EST up reply actions

OT in the late rounds...

But not in rounds 1-4. Light, Solder, Vollmer, and Cannon will suffice for 2012 season. I see them picking up a developmental tackle to stash on the practice squad.
Cunningham was an enigma this year. I had high hopes for him following his rookie campaign, but he really disappeared this season. Not sure if it was related to the lock out and lack of preseason or if he is just a knucklehead, but it sure seems as if Cunningham is headed to BB’s illustrious list of failed 2nd round picks.

by The Qwan on Feb 6, 2012 11:02 PM EST up reply actions

Right. A later round guy.

by Jack'sAxe on Feb 6, 2012 11:09 PM EST up reply actions

And lets wait till next season to judge cunningham.

by Jack'sAxe on Feb 6, 2012 11:10 PM EST up reply actions

Cunningham will get another chance in camp and preseason,

but it’s going to be do or die for his career here. Rob Ninkovich, almost-surely Mark Anderson, maybe Andre Carter, and probably Markell Carter are going to be there to compete.

It is what it is

by Middlesex on Feb 6, 2012 11:15 PM EST up reply actions

Of course.

by Jack'sAxe on Feb 6, 2012 11:27 PM EST up reply actions

I hope Cunningham turns it around. Itd be great if he develops. As a 34 olb he was good against the run and was just a step off as a pass rusher.

by The Qwan on Feb 6, 2012 11:31 PM EST up reply actions

If Pats get depth for the line(as opposed to upgrading at C) they'll probably look at G

given that Waters is at the age to consider retirement every year.

It is what it is

by Middlesex on Feb 6, 2012 11:16 PM EST up reply actions

Waters was awesome this season

I hope he returns next season. He really stepped up and played great. And you love having his veteran presence around for the younger guys on the o-line.
We dont have a long term solution at C, but I think that Connolly/Koppen can fill in for another year. BB might pick up a mid round center and have him learn for a year or 2 under Dante. Prolly a better bet than a 1st/2nd round center, especially since I doubt Konz will be around when we pick. The top center has gone in the teens the last couple of drafts. But hey, if the right guy is available at the top of the draft and BB pulls the trigger I’m not going to complain. Gotta protect Tommy B.

by The Qwan on Feb 6, 2012 11:27 PM EST up reply actions

I'm a Mike Brewster fan if he falls to the 3rd at pick 95.

He was seen as a First Rounder at the start of the spring. The Ohio State drama has affected his stock a bit and a poor showing at the Senior Bowl didn’t help. He’s a big, smart kid, with character enough to stick with a program with issues. He could have jumped to the NFL last year and probably gone in the first three rounds but he chose to stay as a captain. Dante can correct any flaws he has and he could be a 10 year starter at that position.

by waldoon on Feb 7, 2012 10:56 PM EST up reply actions